Battlestar Galactica to the Big Screen?

[Count Draken]

I think there are people really interested in making this project come true, but no one will put a penny on the show knowing that the typical audience of todays world would not be interested in the concept of the original Galactica (ie: no long-legged hot blonds, overture to sex, crude language, and so on).

Frankly, I prefer watch the old episodes again and again, knowing that the purity of the original series is unlikely to be replicated in the near future.

(Despite this, the reimagined series has some interesting aspects)

[BST]

Personally, I'll give it some room to grow legs. The project WILL go forward if those financing it think that it has money-making capability. With that in mind and given the success of Abrams' Star Trek re-boot, I'd look for more information about it closer to the time that "Trek II" goes into production.

If it's going to happen, I'd look for it to be released shortly after Trek, to ride the sci-fi coattails a bit.

[peter noble]

Personally, I'll give it some room to grow legs. The project WILL go forward if those financing it think that it has money-making capability. With that in mind and given the success of Abrams' Star Trek re-boot, I'd look for more information about it closer to the time that "Trek II" goes into production.

If it's going to happen, I'd look for it to be released shortly after Trek, to ride the sci-fi coattails a bit.

Financing is a key issue, because Universal's movie studio has dropped genre projects for being too expensive like Guillermo Del Toro's 'The Mountains of Madness' and Ron Howard's adaption of Stephen King's 'The Gunslinger'.

I hope Battleship is a hit for them, as that might help BG's case, as would the Trek sequel being a hit.

[Titon]

I think I'll believe, and be a bit more excited, when I can see some preproduction sketches... or some casting... anything that gives it a bit more weight. It does seem like Singer has been in this habit of attaching his name to things, and they they never come through. Hopefully he really will focus on this now, and maybe Battlestar can become the successful franchise Universal wants it to be.

Dave, i won't believe it will happen until i am watching it first hand. We lost DeSanto's version and it was being made with all the sketches and pre-production work. Again i have seen this scenario played out over and over again.

I am almost to a point where i would wish they would just leave it alone.

[137th Gebirg]

Maybe NuBSG was right - "This has all happened before; it will all happen again." :(

[BST]

Maybe NuBSG was right - "This has all happened before; it will all happen again." :(



So said them all?

:rotf:

[peter noble]

Significant update regarding the writing of the proposed movie:

http://www.deadline.com/2011/10/bryan-singers-battlestar-galactica-gets-airborne-with-john-orloff-scripting-deal/

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Sounds like a positive development and definitely something I can favor. I prefer this writer to Ron Moore, although I'd have to know more about what he wants to do with it before I got too jazzed.

I noticed after the article that the complaints by the GINO fans ring somewhat familiar. Amazing how a different take on the series ruffles feathers, no matter which side it comes from.

All my best,


Russell

[Gemini1999]

Sounds like a positive development and definitely something I can favor. I prefer this writer to Ron Moore, although I'd have to know more about what he wants to do with it before I got too jazzed.

I noticed after the article that the complaints by the GINO fans ring somewhat familiar. Amazing how a different take on the series ruffles feathers, no matter which side it comes from.

Russell -

Negative commentary aside, I'll bet that they'll be in line to see it just like most of us that tuned in to see the 2003 Miniseries to see what became of it.

Bryan

[Eric Paddon]

Sorry to say this, but the ship sailed long ago for me to have any interest in any project of this nature. It's obviously not going to be a resolution to the storyline of the original series but in the best case scenario a remake of the "classic" format. Sorry, but that is a been-there, done-that kind of story for me that I have no interest in revisiting. I'm not interested in seeing the original series concept redone with new technology my only interest was to see a definable resolution to the original series storyline and obviously far too much time has passed for that to ever have any meaningful or realistic chance of ever happening.

I won't rain on anyone's parade any further. More power to those still watching, but even if this comes off it still won't be something I can embrace because it's not remotely close to what I'd hoped and dreamed for all those years. The other show destroyed those hopes forever.

[BST]

The article's comments were rather typical and somewhat laughable. Apparently the Moore hero-worship crowd hasn't missed a step.

At any rate, it will be interesting to see this movie plotted out since we know it will likely deal with the Colonial holocaus if, in fact, it is rebooting the story. How far will the story go in the alotted time frame? I'm hoping it would be at least 2 to 2-1/2 hours. Anything less than that is probably not going to have enough depth to the story, to make it worthwhile.

[Gemini1999]

At any rate, it will be interesting to see this movie plotted out since we know it will likely deal with the Colonial holocaus if, in fact, it is rebooting the story. How far will the story go in the alotted time frame? I'm hoping it would be at least 2 to 2-1/2 hours. Anything less than that is probably not going to have enough depth to the story, to make it worthwhile.

Pete -

I agree about having a very dense story and a longer run time. If studios can make films like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings where the stories were very dense (not meaning stupid) and had a run time over 2 hours, it's not a far fetched idea.

I'd be willing to sit for that length of time as long as the story is engaging to watch.

Bryan

[BST]

Sorry to say this, but the ship sailed long ago for me to have any interest in any project of this nature. It's obviously not going to be a resolution to the storyline of the original series but in the best case scenario a remake of the "classic" format. Sorry, but that is a been-there, done-that kind of story for me that I have no interest in revisiting. I'm not interested in seeing the original series concept redone with new technology my only interest was to see a definable resolution to the original series storyline and obviously far too much time has passed for that to ever have any meaningful or realistic chance of ever happening.

I won't rain on anyone's parade any further. More power to those still watching, but even if this comes off it still won't be something I can embrace because it's not remotely close to what I'd hoped and dreamed for all those years. The other show destroyed those hopes forever.



Well, hello there, Eric, how are you? Doing well I hope.

:)

[peter noble]

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/in-contention/posts/john-orloff-talks-his-new-exciting-gig-writing-bryan-singers-battlestar-galactica-reboot

[Senmut]

Another "re-imagining".
Let it go, then.

[JLHurley]

Once upon a time I would have been jumping for joy over news of a BG series or theatrical release. These days? Eh. Not holding my breath that it will happen let alone be something that appeals to me. Hoping for the best, though...

[BST]

From the sound of it, homage will be paid to Moore's show.

If that's the case, count me OUT!

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I apologize in advance as this has a lot of speculation and perhaps a taint of conpiracy but here goes:

I reread all the GINO fan comments and to me, they didn't seem overtly hostile. They seem to be voicing the same concerns we were back in 2003. They like their version of the franchise, which is what they are most familiar with.

Reading the latter article with comments from the writer, it sounds to me like the driving force behind this film is not going to be to try to retell the Galactica story for the 3rd time but to tie the two series together. If I were to take a complete shot in the dark, someone at Universal has likely recognized there is an untapped or disenfranchised fanbase that didn't like GINO and isn't going to warm up to it at this point, else "Blood and Chrome" would be getting more support. Theoretically, its the element of something linked to Galactica that anyone who liked the original series should be clinging towards. That's enough to warrant a Sci-Fi Channel showing.

Instead, "Blood and Chrome" is destined for a web series.

Then (according to my speculative theory), Singer waltzes into a meeting and pitches bringing back all those fans who have turned away and scooping up a lot of new ones with a feature film. The movie will tie GINO and Galactica together and those who claim it is "Galactica in Name Only" can no longer deny that Ron Moore's version is indeed "Battlestar Galactica" because the film will solidly connect them. When that happens, you'll have another wave of folks who will buy the Blu-Ray sets of GINO because otherwise, their collections will be incomplete.

Admittedly, this is a bit like trying to be psychic but I base it on two foundations. One, in the last article, the writer clearly states that "It will all work in the universe that exists. It will not conflict with anything Ron Moore has done." He also marks himself as a GINO fan and adds that his story will be "pretty ballsy". Marry that with the known reason the previous pitches to reignite Galactica have failed, namely that Universal didn't want the fans to get confused, and you have a fusion of the two.

In fact, I'd expect that this would be something leaning closer to GINO than Galactica. GINO is more recent and more importantly, they can sell a lot more GINO Blu-rays than Galactica DVDs.

I'm ready for something along the lines of a storyline in which everyone learns that multiple universes are controlled by a manipulative "God-thing" who is repeating the same conflicts for whatever reason. Either "God" and something like Iblis keep struggling in a Yin-Yang scenario with everyone trampled underfoot or "God" is a bit sinister and manipulates everything in the Galaxy for his own perverse entertainment. This is essentially the set-up Ron Moore has already established in the finale of GINO. I see it as a logical progression that this film would attempt to bookend both series and make both more acceptable to either set of fans (for those that prefer one to the exclusion of the other).

Personally, I'd prefer that the film ignored GINO entirely but I think its obvious from the last article that isn't going to happen. For Universal, GINO is Battlestar Galactica and I think its reasonable to expect that all official Galactica efforts will be geared towards gaining greater acceptance for Ron Moore's interpretation. I don't base this on any belief that in the big picture, GINO provides a better presentation but because GINO is where Universal stands to make the most money (from unsold Blu-Ray sets and potential future syndication in both the US and Europe). In other words, I wouldn't expect this film to be the launch of a great new effort but as a mortgage payment of the existing franchise.

I'll speculate further and say that if this is indeed what is being planned, its a smart move. If the movie is a smashing success, you can move off in that direction and capitalize on its path while minimizing the negatives of a bunch of upset fans trying to tear down your effort. (Note that Ron Moore and company took specific notice of the online complaints and commented about them fairly frequently so I have to presume they were a concern). The Star Trek reboot was smart enough to do much the same thing. Yet, in this case, if the movie flounders, you still have the benefit of creating something you can point to saying "This is all Battlestar Galactica!". That also might not seem very important but it was another complaint heard from Ron Moore, David Eick, and the Sci-Fi execs so its another concern I think has to be on their minds.

In Universal's view, this likely fulfills the complaints for all the original series fans, undercuts the insults to the original series from the GINO fans, and makes everyone happy. That alone is worth getting a script together to see if the effort should progress further, which is really all that has happened at this point.

EDIT: It also slams the door on any chances of an original series continuation or next generation effort. I personally suspect that also has some appeal to at least some of the decision makers. Putting on my psychic hat, I'd think it logical that someone has figured out that if they found a way to firmly slam and lock the continuation door, everyone who liked the original series and is holding out for it to get revived will give GINO/Singer film tie-in more consideration because they will understand that this truly is the future of anything called "Battlestar Galactica". That message has been stated before but enough have rejected it saying they want the original series that I think at least someone in the Black Tower is listening. (Again, I base this on the comments made by certain officials and rumors of the reasons Tom DeSanto gained resistance in his attempts).

Time will tell if this movie does unfold any further and if so, whether or not I'm on target about its content but this is how I read the situation at the moment.

Other ideas?

All my best,


Russell

[Eric Paddon]

From the sound of it, homage will be paid to Moore's show.

If that's the case, count me OUT!

GINO deserves the same consideration in any project like this that the original series got from Ron Moore. Which is absolutely nothing.

[137th Gebirg]

Hey, Russ - you make some very good points there. And yes, from a business standpoint, this would be a smart move in an effort to unite the fan-bases and move forward under one banner, possibly bringing in new fans that were never into Galactica to begin with. The last Star Trek movie arguably accomplished that in many ways.

Will the purists like it? Probably not. I'm now patently amused that there are staunch supporters of the NuBSG camp who now feel as the TOS loyalist camp felt back in 2003 when the new show came out. The irony is more than just entertaining to me. Personally, as an avid lover of both shows, they can't go wrong with this new concept if you're right. The arguments you mentioned make a lot of sense and, keeping some of the "God did it" closing dialog of the NuBSG finale in mind, I could easily see how they could work this in.

The "angels" in the form of head-Six and head-Baltar as emissaries from the Beings of Light, guiding the humans along just like John did in the "Terra" episodes. Iblis as the grand puppet-master, and so-on. No doubt Richard Hatch would make an appearance, some people thinking he's Apollo and others thinking he's the reincarnation of Tom Zarek and everybody on screen saying "What The Frack"?

I'm just curious how they'll reconcile one of the core differences between human-made Cylons vs. Iblis-corrupted reptilian Cylons.

Anyways, just like in politics, you can't please everyone, and Universal will go for the most mainstream money-making "centrist" target they can acquire on this project. Will it be purely a continuation of TOS? Likely not. Will it be influenced by NuBSG? Likely so. IMHO, it's better than what we've gotten for the past 30-plus years, which is nothing, and I will be happy that at least some semblance of my favorite show will live on into the future. Everything must evolve to survive and thrive - BSG is no different, and I for one shall reserve judgment until the closing credits roll.

:salute:

[Gemini1999]

After the posting of that last link, my thinking is that the writer is "talking out of school" a bit early in the game. Mainly, because fans will pre-judge a film effort in the same way that original series fans passed judgement on the Ron Moore miniseries once a script had been leaked out via the internet. This may be an attempt to telegraph the future film effort, but that kind of strategy has backfired before. For me, knowing that the film will be an attempt to bridge the two TV versions brings up more questions and doubts that could possibly be addressed at this point.

Universal may have their strategy (they've gotten this wrong before) to bring in as many paying customers as possible, but there's no guarantee of success. I remember the high hopes that Universal/SFC had back in 2003/04 for their new series, which had critical success on its side, but the viewing numbers were barely at the threshold to keep it alive. Take a look at the ratings for Fox's Terra Nova right now - that show brings in 8 million viewers consistently every week. Moore & Eick would have killed to have ratings that strong.

Banking such a strategy on a major motion picture is an even bigger gamble that a TV series in terms of production costs, marketing, merchandising, advertising, etc. If it doesn't do well in the first few weeks, you don't have the luxury of gauging the success over the period of a year or two to earn your investment back.

This could either be a major success for Universal, or it could be the final nail in the coffin for future BSG projects (classic, or otherwise).

Only time will tell.

Bryan

[peter noble]

Making a film for both fanbases which are both infinitesimal is no way to make a film.

The thinking that this maybe some ploy to bump syndication chances for the recent series is laughable when you consider that it repeats like a dog that's been dead for three weeks.

They're currently showing it on BBC America and had to move it from a primetime slot because its viewing figures were terrible.

Battlestar Galactica (BBC America)
7 PM: 0.175 million viewers, 0.08 A18-49
8 PM: 0.175 million viewers, 0.09 A18-49

Doctor Who (BBC America, 9 PM)
-0.605 million viewers
-0.27 A18-49
-0.23 A18-34

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/09/12/friday-cable-college-football-smackdown-tops-man-woman-wild-thundercats-haven-more/103267/

Syfy should show more faith in Blood & Chrome which to all appearences could be something TOS-only fans could enjoy.

[Apolloisall]

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/in-contention/posts/john-orloff-talks-his-new-exciting-gig-writing-bryan-singers-battlestar-galactica-reboot
Okay, tell ya what, if it gets made, I'll watch it. Can't be as bad as Moore's no-plan one.
I'll probably like it as much as Superman Returns.:rotf:

Bottom line, no Hatch, no Benedict, no dice.
And they'll redesign the Viper....:no:

[137th Gebirg]

The problem with comparing a show like Terra Nova and NuBSG w/ regard to ratings is that not everyone has Sci-Fi channel. Hell, I even new a guy that, up until he was required to get one of those digital converters a few years back, still watched TV with a chimney mounted antenna! Now, granted, that is an extreme case, but there is a Fox affiliate in every major (and most minor) cities, giving a broader fan-base by default that could be difficult to obtain if the same show was put on a cable channel.

And personally, I don't find Terra Nova to be all that terribly inspired. It's starting to feel like Twilight meets Jurassic Park, complete with teen drama, angst and stupidity. The one last week with the bio-genetic virus was pathetic - the contrived sneezing of the cop guy gave it away in the first 2 minutes of the episode, and we've seen the same exact set up, plot device exposition and technobabble solution in too many Trek and Stargate episodes to enumerate. BSG is superior in every way (both versions) to TN, IMHO.

[Apolloisall]

IMO, the best way to do a new BSG show it to get David Kerin hooked up with big bux to produce animated episodes like they did with Clone Wars.
:thumbsup::salute:

[peter noble]

You can't translate the viewership of a TV show to the potential audience for a film that will play all over the world.

And the audience for a show like Terra Nova on a main network is markedly different from that of a niche cable channel such as Syfy anyway.

More non-SF fans will see a SF movie than watch a SF TV series. Don't know why, that's just the way it is unless it taps into the psyche like the X-Files did (UFOs are a big thing) or isn't too SF heavy such as Quantum Leap or $6M Man.

Universal has already had some success with the movie version of Saga that played so well in foreign territories that they released two other 'movies'.

So maybe they should look to the returns from that for guidance.

[BST]

Syfy reported years ago that the network's penetration was approximately 72.5-73% of the US market. With that being the case, factor Terra Nova's ratings numbers by that amount and you'll still get 5.5-6.0 million which would have surpassed the best that GINO ever did (the nights of the mini-series).

[BST]

For Universal, GINO is Battlestar Galactica and I think its reasonable to expect that all official Galactica efforts will be geared towards gaining greater acceptance for Ron Moore's interpretation. I don't base this on any belief that in the big picture, GINO provides a better presentation but because GINO is where Universal stands to make the most money (from unsold Blu-Ray sets and potential future syndication in both the US and Europe). In other words, I wouldn't expect this film to be the launch of a great new effort but as a mortgage payment of the existing franchise.



Doesn't the fact that there are, apparently, many unsold Blu-Ray sets and that syndication hasn't already taken place, give an indication of GINO's money-making ability, or lack thereof?

Given the known facts that Syfy is available in about 73% of the US market, that GINO lost 75% of its audience over the 4 years, that a spinoff series died a quick death and another has been relegated to being a web series, why would any company, i.e., Universal consider the product to be some sort of hallowed ground?

Given those facts, why wouldn't it be considered a bad dream, to be run from?

I truly don't understand the mentality of the industry if they are going to pitch a failed product, again, and toss in a few bones for the "old" crowd, thinking that will spell success at the box office.

[Centurion Draco]

Warriors all,

I've got to say that this feels like great news!!
If there is going to be a BSG movie that has any appeal to us then this might be it's last chance.
The cast are getting on in years and the fans are getting dissolusioned.
we're never going to get everything we want because we all (after all these years) have our own strong ideas about what should be done.
But if we want a movie with some of the original cast in it and some connection to the original done in a 'sensitive' way to the source material, then this is probobly our last chance to see it happen.

Get posting some positive comments on that article, lets tell them what we'd like to see!
If we just seem negative they are even more likely to ignore us.

Best
Draco (AKA Atlantia)

[Senmut]

GINO deserves the same consideration in any project like this that the original series got from Ron Moore. Which is absolutely nothing.

Agreed. What toasts my mushies the most is the way they keep dangling the real thing in front of us, but it is always yanked just out of reach. I think they are waiting for the original cast to be too old or die off, then say how a continuation is not possible. They could have done this 10-15 years ago, but they don't WANT to. We asked for water in the desert, and what we got was antifreeze. They just don't have the gonadal fortitude to admit it.

[BST]

Much, of course, is likely due to politics. After all, if a potential movie was based on TOS and did very, very well at the box office, essentially leaving Moore's show in the dust, how would those who championed Moore's show be viewed at the Black Tower?

So, those who championed Moore's show are going to want this potential movie to be based on that particular universe in order to protect their own self-interests.

[Darrell Lawrence]

I thought the movie rights were seperate from TV rights, and owned by Larson at that.

Did I miss something? If Larson still holds the movie rights, then Universal has no say in the story. Hell, are they even the studio this movie project is going through?

[peter noble]

Did I miss something?

Yeah, you missed the important bit where Larson either sold the rights outright or optioned them for a period to Universal.

[BST]

I thought that the even though Larson owns the rights to a theatrical movie, he still has to license, from Universal, the name "Battlestar Galactica".

[monolith21]

I'm on board with Singer at the helm and a script written by someone from "Band of Brothers". That show was epic. My butt is in a seat for the premier. This a fantastic news!

[Apolloisall]

Will Starbuck be a daggit in this version?:rolleyes:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Friends,

And after this rant, I stress, I hope you remember that I am a friend.

Keep in mind, this hasn't gotten any further than asking a writer to produce a first-draft script. What seems to have changed is that Universal is now willing to CONSIDER looking at a script that may be partially based on the original series. Its a very, very low-level play at this point and not something that should indicate a film is moving down the road in the direction the writer says it will.

Truth be told, I can't say that given what's been released, there's proof that there will be any influence of the original series. We think that's true because of the past effort but this could be a different playing field now.

I agree with Peter that a film audience is dramatically different than a series audience, especially one spawned from a cable channel, but I've also garnered certain beliefs from studying the media business for the past decade. Part of that is that the film companies are very risk-averse and want to put their money into something that already has the pump already primed. A television series audience won't carry a feature film but if they told two friends and they told two friends, etc. Under this premise, it isn't a question of whether any audience of the series will carry a film but how you can get the most out of what you have to work with.

In this case, fusing the differing fan-bases together and widening the acceptance among those who have rejected the differing elements only make sense.

I'd also add that any audience Universal is looking to court isn't making posts like "It deserves the same respect Ron Moore gave the original, which was none". Nice to hear that some have still so strongly stuck to your guns but if you're still entrenched in the "Hate Ron Moore Club", you've been shuffled into the same category as Languatron.

From the view of the Black Tower, they've already looked at the potential of reviving the original series and rejected it. Even if GINO is considered a failure, that doesn't increase the viability of the original series. In actually lowers it further.

The reality for the decision-makers is that Ron Moore tried to appease us in his own way until 2004 when he openly declared "F- 'em" (although he used the full term). Michael Rymer bragged to us that "This (GINO) was our (original series fans) show". We gave them the finger and a good amount of venom as well.

These two were among the last abandon us, not the first.

Based on what the various decision-makers have shared and looking at their actions, I think its also easy to make some logical implications as to how they feel about the franchise overall. In the interest of full-disclosure, I base this on my behind the scenes communications with Ron Moore and Richard Hatch, friends I had working at Sci-Fi Channel, and friends who worked on the GINO production. This is a cobbling of elements I've noted over the years processed through my own mental filters.

I present it as a perspective only.

Universal, Ron Moore, and the Sci-Fi Channel staff were truly confounded as to why we didn't warmly embrace GINO. For all his "I'm writing this for me" talk, Ron Moore did reach out to us in the early stages and inquired as to what would make his series work better for us. (This was as he was writing S1 and after the miniseries). With only a couple of rare exceptions, he got a lot of venom dumped on him and a lot of hostility for his efforts. Passions were high and many just wanted to show how much they despised what he was doing to "Galactica" but in the process, we proved that as a group, we are a bunch of rabid dogs that should be avoided at all cost.

It also sent the message that we (the collective we represented at Fleets and The Cylon Alliance) couldn't possibly represent the larger fanbase. No large group worth considering are that hostile. Ron, quite naturally, gave us the finger in return and pushed forward. We continued to reject him in a manner that seemed to indicate we had some say in the matter, which truly we didn't.

GINO got acclaim, lots of support, and from Ron's and Universal's point of view, they were very smart to ignore us.

Then some time went by. The first GINO audience dwindled and was replaced by an ultra-Liberal, "I hate George Bush and all things Conservative" crowd that loved the political and social references. The ratings numbers floated along but the first wave of GINO fans faded off. After a while, part of the ultra-Liberal group found other "voices of truth" and were somewhat replaced by the soap-opera relationship crowd that Bonnie Hammer always felt would bring in the 5 million+ viewers.

It didn't and GINO was wrapped up due to low ratings or "Ended on its own terms".

I think everyone was left scratching their heads as to why it never succeeded with the Sci-Fi fanbase. About halfway through, Ron Moore did try to bring in more original series stuff. By all rightful concepts, it should have worked but he was advertising to an empty room. I don't think many in the production ever really understood that.

If Ron wants to correct me I'll apologize but based on what he shared and statements he's made, I think he truly feels he gave us what we were screaming for, although not until later in the series. We kept saying we wanted the Singer/DeSanto concpet, which annoyed and confused him as it was unclear as to why we valued an abandoned pre-production effort over an active show in production. Then, he gave us the show we were asking for -- recall the S2 cliffhanger? That was the Tom DeSanto concept shoved into GINO so hard it derailed the entire series. It was effectively a complete reboot. It should have brought in the original series fans who were screaming for DeSanto. It was Tom DeSanto's stuff with only a small Ron Moore redesign. (I'd argue Ron morphed it into something unrecognizable but I don't think he saw any of it that way. I think it was his way of giving us what we said we'd been waiting for).

The original series fans didn't respond, at least in any way that could be measured.

This left many asking "Where are they?" We might say that Ron had already alienated everyone but it left Universal wondering if any sizeable group of original series fans truly existed. They have good reason for this. Recall the poor showing at Galacticon. That didn't compare to the convention crowds GINO was garnering at the time with its own format. Convention crowds are small but they are a measuring stick for the larger Sci-Fi audience.

Ron went as far as to put in the original series Cylons. They were a bit different and had some alterations but sorry guys, they were the real Cylons (sans the cool voice which is a technical issue not a story issue). The real raider came back and there were hints of more to come. All of this was greeted with a big "Meh".

Again, from most here the message was "Screw you, Ron Moore!" From Universal's perspective, it was a clear sign that there isn't any support for the original series effort. Even when they tried to give us what we said we wanted, we were still fickle about it and weren't interested in playing.

Why would you court a group like that. If the trial balloons crashed so badly, why would you amplify the mistake and risk more on such an unstable group of fans?

On the board, we've argued that Universal refuses to give us the show we want. I suspect that in the process, most at the Black Tower feel they tried to make us happy and we're just not pleased with anything.

To help frame this, you have to keep in mind the sort of mindset that's based in Hollywood. Within that viewpoint, GINO had just about everything anyone would want in a series. It slammed George Bush and everyone hated George Bush. It tackled important political issues so everyone could relate the show to their own lives. It was timely and modern. It had top-notch special effects. It had strong actors. It had great scripts (not judged by our responses but by the fact that the scripts were regularly praised in the Hollywood circles and garnered strong awards).

How could we not love it?

While we complain we've never been considered, many within the production and currently at Universal feel they bent over backwards to make us happy and we just bitched about everything. This is the concept that most here haven't gotten and its the core as to why any statements from fans saying "I want things more my way" will always fall on deaf ears with this franchise.

Its also why, in my belief, Tom DeSanto has always been shuffled out the door when he's tried to get something going. When he claims there's an untapped audience and eager appetite for the original series, Universal says "Yeah, -- fine, been there and done that over and over". Ron Moore defined the attitude when he said "They don't want to be won over". I think that's indicative of the larger belief that the original series fans who rejected GINO won't ever be satisfied with anything Universal generates.

I'd say that our reaction to the original series elements placed in GINO only strengthened that. I do know that Ron Moore monitored our reactions as did an element at the Sci-Fi Channel. Regardless of the message we intended to send, we did tell them that we can never be satisfied and its useless to make the attempt. The developments around "Blood and Chrome" pretty well prove that the risk aversion to trying to push any original series concepts in any form is pretty high. "Blood and Chrome" is the closest thing I've seen to the classic Battlestar Galactica and its been tossed back to the web, where many felt it belonged in the first place.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the developments over the past 8 years, it seems that many here want to continue to ignore the reality that to Universal, GINO Is Battlestar Galactica. Members here can argue any concept they wish and push any ideas of feature films changing everything but I think that's the chattering of fools.

If you're of the mind that nothing connected to GINO can possibly be Galactica, then the series and all of its offshoots has been completed for you.

I say this not to promote my own beliefs but to recognize that every signal has given Universal says that leaning towards GINO is the smarter way to go. They see the original series fans and its elements as a way to supplement an audience but not anything that would form the core of one. If you see GINO as "failed" then you need to revisit the ratings for the original series, which also plummeted in the exact same manner they did for GINO. If you overlay the two, the match is uncanny. Every argument you present as to why GINO failed also rings true for why Galactica failed.

The icing on the cake for all of this is that Universal doesn't see the crowd represented by the voices here as anything that can be called "reasonable". They see us as irrational, unpredictable, and nothing you'd want to use as a foundation for a multi-million dollar effort.

If that sounds wrong, go back and reread the posts for the past eight years and then put yourselves in their shoes. If you were aware of these writings (and some making the Galactica decisions are), would you risk millions on a group like this?

We've historically come across like the Occupy Wall Street crowd, not a group of fans who could form the counter-part to a successful Universal Studios production.

All my best,



Russell

[Apolloisall]

Wow TBC, that was something that needed saying, I think.
But even so, I say

Occupy Caprica!!!

:rotf:

[peter noble]

For my part I just believe 'Battlestar Galactica' is a property to be exploited by Universal in anyway they can, whether it be 'Blood & Chrome', a film – the release of newest series model kits, or Hallmark classic series Cylon Christmas ornaments.

There's a lot of armchair quarterbacking going on here for a movie that still may never come to pass, even though recent events have stirred the pot two years after the initial announcement.

I'm more interested in checking out the screenwriter's writing credits and I always relish any opportunity to watch Band of Brothers again.

[BST]

Friends,

And after this rant, I stress, I hope you remember that I am a friend.

Keep in mind, this hasn't gotten any further than asking a writer to produce a first-draft script. What seems to have changed is that Universal is now willing to CONSIDER looking at a script that may be partially based on the original series. Its a very, very low-level play at this point and not something that should indicate a film is moving down the road in the direction the writer says it will.

Truth be told, I can't say that given what's been released, there's proof that there will be any influence of the original series. We think that's true because of the past effort but this could be a different playing field now.

I agree with Peter that a film audience is dramatically different than a series audience, especially one spawned from a cable channel, but I've also garnered certain beliefs from studying the media business for the past decade. Part of that is that the film companies are very risk-averse and want to put their money into something that already has the pump already primed. A television series audience won't carry a feature film but if they told two friends and they told two friends, etc. Under this premise, it isn't a question of whether any audience of the series will carry a film but how you can get the most out of what you have to work with.

In this case, fusing the differing fan-bases together and widening the acceptance among those who have rejected the differing elements only make sense.

I'd also add that any audience Universal is looking to court isn't making posts like "It deserves the same respect Ron Moore gave the original, which was none". Nice to hear that some have still so strongly stuck to your guns but if you're still entrenched in the "Hate Ron Moore Club", you've been shuffled into the same category as Languatron.

From the view of the Black Tower, they've already looked at the potential of reviving the original series and rejected it. Even if GINO is considered a failure, that doesn't increase the viability of the original series. In actually lowers it further.

The reality for the decision-makers is that Ron Moore tried to appease us in his own way until 2004 when he openly declared "F- 'em" (although he used the full term). Michael Rymer bragged to us that "This (GINO) was our (original series fans) show". We gave them the finger and a good amount of venom as well.

These two were among the last abandon us, not the first.

Based on what the various decision-makers have shared and looking at their actions, I think its also easy to make some logical implications as to how they feel about the franchise overall. In the interest of full-disclosure, I base this on my behind the scenes communications with Ron Moore and Richard Hatch, friends I had working at Sci-Fi Channel, and friends who worked on the GINO production. This is a cobbling of elements I've noted over the years processed through my own mental filters.

I present it as a perspective only.

Universal, Ron Moore, and the Sci-Fi Channel staff were truly confounded as to why we didn't warmly embrace GINO. For all his "I'm writing this for me" talk, Ron Moore did reach out to us in the early stages and inquired as to what would make his series work better for us. (This was as he was writing S1 and after the miniseries). With only a couple of rare exceptions, he got a lot of venom dumped on him and a lot of hostility for his efforts. Passions were high and many just wanted to show how much they despised what he was doing to "Galactica" but in the process, we proved that as a group, we are a bunch of rabid dogs that should be avoided at all cost.

It also sent the message that we (the collective we represented at Fleets and The Cylon Alliance) couldn't possibly represent the larger fanbase. No large group worth considering are that hostile. Ron, quite naturally, gave us the finger in return and pushed forward. We continued to reject him in a manner that seemed to indicate we had some say in the matter, which truly we didn't.

GINO got acclaim, lots of support, and from Ron's and Universal's point of view, they were very smart to ignore us.

Then some time went by. The first GINO audience dwindled and was replaced by an ultra-Liberal, "I hate George Bush and all things Conservative" crowd that loved the political and social references. The ratings numbers floated along but the first wave of GINO fans faded off. After a while, part of the ultra-Liberal group found other "voices of truth" and were somewhat replaced by the soap-opera relationship crowd that Bonnie Hammer always felt would bring in the 5 million+ viewers.

It didn't and GINO was wrapped up due to low ratings or "Ended on its own terms".

I think everyone was left scratching their heads as to why it never succeeded with the Sci-Fi fanbase. About halfway through, Ron Moore did try to bring in more original series stuff. By all rightful concepts, it should have worked but he was advertising to an empty room. I don't think many in the production ever really understood that.

If Ron wants to correct me I'll apologize but based on what he shared and statements he's made, I think he truly feels he gave us what we were screaming for, although not until later in the series. We kept saying we wanted the Singer/DeSanto concpet, which annoyed and confused him as it was unclear as to why we valued an abandoned pre-production effort over an active show in production. Then, he gave us the show we were asking for -- recall the S2 cliffhanger? That was the Tom DeSanto concept shoved into GINO so hard it derailed the entire series. It was effectively a complete reboot. It should have brought in the original series fans who were screaming for DeSanto. It was Tom DeSanto's stuff with only a small Ron Moore redesign. (I'd argue Ron morphed it into something unrecognizable but I don't think he saw any of it that way. I think it was his way of giving us what we said we'd been waiting for).

The original series fans didn't respond, at least in any way that could be measured.

This left many asking "Where are they?" We might say that Ron had already alienated everyone but it left Universal wondering if any sizeable group of original series fans truly existed. They have good reason for this. Recall the poor showing at Galacticon. That didn't compare to the convention crowds GINO was garnering at the time with its own format. Convention crowds are small but they are a measuring stick for the larger Sci-Fi audience.

Ron went as far as to put in the original series Cylons. They were a bit different and had some alterations but sorry guys, they were the real Cylons (sans the cool voice which is a technical issue not a story issue). The real raider came back and there were hints of more to come. All of this was greeted with a big "Meh".

Again, from most here the message was "Screw you, Ron Moore!" From Universal's perspective, it was a clear sign that there isn't any support for the original series effort. Even when they tried to give us what we said we wanted, we were still fickle about it and weren't interested in playing.

Why would you court a group like that. If the trial balloons crashed so badly, why would you amplify the mistake and risk more on such an unstable group of fans?

On the board, we've argued that Universal refuses to give us the show we want. I suspect that in the process, most at the Black Tower feel they tried to make us happy and we're just not pleased with anything.

To help frame this, you have to keep in mind the sort of mindset that's based in Hollywood. Within that viewpoint, GINO had just about everything anyone would want in a series. It slammed George Bush and everyone hated George Bush. It tackled important political issues so everyone could relate the show to their own lives. It was timely and modern. It had top-notch special effects. It had strong actors. It had great scripts (not judged by our responses but by the fact that the scripts were regularly praised in the Hollywood circles and garnered strong awards).

How could we not love it?

While we complain we've never been considered, many within the production and currently at Universal feel they bent over backwards to make us happy and we just bitched about everything. This is the concept that most here haven't gotten and its the core as to why any statements from fans saying "I want things more my way" will always fall on deaf ears with this franchise.

Its also why, in my belief, Tom DeSanto has always been shuffled out the door when he's tried to get something going. When he claims there's an untapped audience and eager appetite for the original series, Universal says "Yeah, -- fine, been there and done that over and over". Ron Moore defined the attitude when he said "They don't want to be won over". I think that's indicative of the larger belief that the original series fans who rejected GINO won't ever be satisfied with anything Universal generates.

I'd say that our reaction to the original series elements placed in GINO only strengthened that. I do know that Ron Moore monitored our reactions as did an element at the Sci-Fi Channel. Regardless of the message we intended to send, we did tell them that we can never be satisfied and its useless to make the attempt. The developments around "Blood and Chrome" pretty well prove that the risk aversion to trying to push any original series concepts in any form is pretty high. "Blood and Chrome" is the closest thing I've seen to the classic Battlestar Galactica and its been tossed back to the web, where many felt it belonged in the first place.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the developments over the past 8 years, it seems that many here want to continue to ignore the reality that to Universal, GINO Is Battlestar Galactica. Members here can argue any concept they wish and push any ideas of feature films changing everything but I think that's the chattering of fools.

If you're of the mind that nothing connected to GINO can possibly be Galactica, then the series and all of its offshoots has been completed for you.

I say this not to promote my own beliefs but to recognize that every signal has given Universal says that leaning towards GINO is the smarter way to go. They see the original series fans and its elements as a way to supplement an audience but not anything that would form the core of one. If you see GINO as "failed" then you need to revisit the ratings for the original series, which also plummeted in the exact same manner they did for GINO. If you overlay the two, the match is uncanny. Every argument you present as to why GINO failed also rings true for why Galactica failed.

The icing on the cake for all of this is that Universal doesn't see the crowd represented by the voices here as anything that can be called "reasonable". They see us as irrational, unpredictable, and nothing you'd want to use as a foundation for a multi-million dollar effort.

If that sounds wrong, go back and reread the posts for the past eight years and then put yourselves in their shoes. If you were aware of these writings (and some making the Galactica decisions are), would you risk millions on a group like this?

We've historically come across like the Occupy Wall Street crowd, not a group of fans who could form the counter-part to a successful Universal Studios production.

All my best,



Russell


I only attempted to watch Ron's show because, at that time, I was a Moderator here and felt the need to have at least a working knowledge of the events. Otherwise the show had zero interest for me.

I lasted through about the 11th episode. The show's plodding pace put me to sleep at about the 40-minute mark every time. I was too busy at the time and felt that if the show couldn't keep my interest for at least an hour, I wasn't going to waste any further time on it.

Like many others, here and elsewhere, I was incredibly disappointed with the direction the show took following the April, 2002 announcement. Whether right or wrong, I made statements regarding my feelings about what I would like to see in a Galactica show. (Many of our comments are still here, in the "Last Battlestar...." sub-forum.) I don't consider that to be wrong or extremist but, to be rather commonsensical. After all, if a person doesn't indicate a preference and make it known what he or she prefers, how is anyone else supposed to know?

At any rate, regarding the "bones" that Ron threw to us, how was that supposed to make a difference? His show was still a foreign concept, not at all like the show that gave reason to this forum. Are TOS Cylons and Raiders truly supposed to have won me over, when we still would have "glow-in-the-dark" spines running around with sex-crazed traitors, telephones with cords, guns that shoot bullets, and a female Starbuck?

Would I also have been expected to overlook and forgive the "rape scene"?

No, unfortunately, they wouldn't have "won me over" with the bones and if that makes me intransigent, so be it.


I'm not mad or upset with anything that was said here. Many times, I prefer to respond in a way that will not carry any ambiguity.

..... and yes, we're still friends.

:)

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I lasted through about the 11th episode. The show's plodding pace put me to sleep at about the 40-minute mark every time. I was too busy at the time and felt that if the show couldn't keep my interest for at least an hour, I wasn't going to waste any further time on it.

Like many others, here and elsewhere, I was incredibly disappointed with the direction the show took following the April, 2002 announcement. Whether right or wrong, I made statements regarding my feelings about what I would like to see in a Galactica show. (Many of our comments are still here, in the "Last Battlestar...." sub-forum.) I don't consider that to be wrong or extremist but, to be rather commonsensical. After all, if a person doesn't indicate a preference and make it known what he or she prefers, how is anyone else supposed to know?

At any rate, regarding the "bones" that Ron threw to us, how was that supposed to make a difference? His show was still a foreign concept, not at all like the show that gave reason to this forum. Are TOS Cylons and Raiders truly supposed to have won me over, when we still would have "glow-in-the-dark" spines running around with sex-crazed traitors, telephones with cords, guns that shoot bullets, and a female Starbuck?

Would I also have been expected to overlook and forgive the "rape scene"?

No, unfortunately, they wouldn't have "won me over" with the bones and if that makes me intransigent, so be it.
:)


Sums up my feelings pretty well, except I watched the entire series. I'm vulnerable to car wrecks.

However, my feelings/interpretation/belief is that we are all speaking on a different level than those granting green lights and budgets and to Ron Moore himself.

As Peter noted, its a lot of crystal ball insights that may or may not eventually prove to be true. However, in short to your inquiry about "bones", I think the honest answer is "Yes". You were indeed supposed to respond to these things. Elements like the rape, baby murder, Baltar's under the desk hobby, etc. were just parts of "good drama". If you didn't like them, they weren't supposed to be anything more than mere moments in a much larger story base. Nobody likes everything in any series. Why should small parts here and there hold such importance to any faction of an audience?

I don't agree with this thinking but I understand it. I think its important to keep in mind.

Ron once told me that he was confident that he'd faithfully recreated Battlestar Galactica. He was telling a story about a group of survivors chased by killer robots who were seeking a place called Earth that they weren't all certain really existed.

There wasn't a doubt in his mind it was essentially the exact same story, just polished up and made more sophisticated.

I'd think most in Hollywood would agree with him. Keep in mind, this is a culture where 2-hour films are summarized in two sentences. Anything more is useless banter, at least at the exec level. I seriously doubt the folks in charge of giving a thumbs up or thumbs down for a Galactica film recall half of what Ron had in his series. They likely know far less about the original and they aren't much interested in finding out.

They do know that GINO had "some big battleships and some fighters flying around and killer robots trying to destroy everyone. In the midst, a group of humans from some alien planet are trying to find Earth." In other words, it was the exact same formula used in 1978. It is Battlestar Galactica. What they don't get is the purpose for all the whining.

I think some along the way do grasp that Ron really tried to make his effort something we would like, at least in the very beginning. He also came back around later on and "threw us other bones". These didn't get much of a response but again, I'd say for some, they were the measuring stick as to what would pay off and what wouldn't.

I'm pretty sure Universal feels this way. For them, killer robots are killer robots and Ron was kind enough to provide killer robots that looked like they did in 1978. The old spaceship designs were injected into the series. Ron even brought back Cain and the Beings of Light. He gave us the DeSanto storyline and Return of Starbuck.

He didn't have to do any of this. He was free to add or delete whatever he wanted. He put in the extra effort to reach out to us and each and every time, we just complained.

Based on my exchanges with a few people, and some of the scripted comments from those paid by the production to post on the boards, I am quite certain this is a running theme in the thinking of almost all connected with GINO.

You may recall that when either Razor or the Plan came out, a few hit the boards and bragged that there was a present for the original series fans embedded in that DVD. It was the classic "Fleeing from the Cylon Tyranny --" ending with Olmos narrating.

I know from at least two who worked on the project that they thought we would really get enthusiastic about this and would (hopefully) buy the DVD and perhaps view GINO with more favor. They sincerely thought it was a gift that once word got out, quite a few would respond to. Everyone can think what they will about Ron and David Eick but there were quite a few others who were involved in the production who never held any ill feelings towards the fans and viewed the original series with a lot of favor. They were also put off by all of our reactions.

In the case of this DVD, it turned out to be another example of why we were a group that could never be satisfied. A few commented that it was a pure insult to the original series, something that felt like a knife in the chest to at least some of the crew who worked on putting the DVD together. It convinced them that Ron Moore was right.

Again, I'm not trying to argue that anyone was right or wrong but am saying that its important to understand this thinking if you're going to interpret any future production called Galactica. I think it does represent how Universal feels about the overall situation.

I think it also supports the claim that if this film presses forward and fails, you can call it the final official Galactica production any of us will see for a long, long time.

All my best,


Russelll

[Apolloisall]

if this film presses forward and fails, you can call it the final official Galactica production any of us will see for a long, long time.

Ahhh, that was '78-'79.

Problem is that it's all just TOO simple for the Tower-apes.
Give us the basic story, the basic designs, and most importantly, the basic characters.
They can't do it. And they won't. They don't know how. Most have never even watched it. They look at numbers on sheets and go yes or no.
Once in a while a person who likes good movies or TV shows get a job there (How the frack that happens I cannot say), but mostly it's cubit-counters.
Then, it's producers who have inflated egos that believe the "I CAN MAKE IT BETTER" bs that almost always goes into 'remaking' something classic.
Lost in Space, Planet of the Apes, & BSG remakes. FAIL. Do they see the common cause yet?

TO ANYONE AT THE STUDIOS THAT MAY EVER READ THIS:
Go ahead, make me look stupid, PLEASE. Thrill me, shock me (and get bigger ratings/box office); just simply do it right.

[peter noble]

Lost in Space, Planet of the Apes, & BSG remakes. FAIL. Do they see the common cause yet?

LIS film was a flop and the pilot never got beyond the pilot stage.

POTA Tim Burton was not a runaway success.

Rise of the POTA was a hit (loved it!)

New series Galactica lasted four seasons, it was a hit for Syfy)

So your statement is only half correct.

At the moment, Hawaii 5-0 is in its second series on CBS. And up until this point, no remake of a hit TV show has been a hit on network TV, H50 is a hit.

[Apolloisall]

Rise of the POTA was a hit (loved it!)
That I didn't include on that list because the producers SAW the films upon which that is based (also why it was good, also why it made money, it snared new viewers AND hardcore fans).New series Galactica lasted four seasons, it was a hit for Syfy)


BUT....how much MORE of a hit could it have been if they were able to reel in & keep hardcore fans as well AS WELL AS peeps who've never seen the original ?
Why not go for ALL of it, not just new fans?

[David Kerin]

I'm curious, and this does tie into this thread (at least in my mind), is there a way to find what merchandising has sold better... original or nu-bsg? I find it interesting that there is a new line of 8" figures coming out based on the original, not the new series. Merchandising is a huge, sorry...HUGE!!!!!, part of a franchise, and there has to be bean counters comparing such things. Could merchandising $$$ play a part in the direction and feel that Universal wants for this movie? We know GINO was not kid friendly, and there was no kid clamoring for their Viper with "Husker" written on the side.

[Apolloisall]

We know GINO was not kid friendly, and there was no kid clamoring for their Viper with "Husker" written on the side.
Exactly.
It lost the hard core original fans early on, it NEVER had the kids, it (no doubt) lost many female viewers to the rape stuff, it lost many other general SF fans during it's meandering...
The original was all-inclusive by design, and some demographics experts SOMEWHERE must know this difference in the two takes on the series.
Whether that gets back to cubit-counters & producers or not... we will see, I guess.:rolleyes:
Toys, mass market models, and trading cards can be BIG, niche adult tightly focused replicas & such, not so much.

[BST]

Sums up my feelings pretty well, except I watched the entire series. I'm vulnerable to car wrecks.


Thought this was a train wreck. ;)


However, my feelings/interpretation/belief is that we are all speaking on a different level than those granting green lights and budgets and to Ron Moore himself.

As Peter noted, its a lot of crystal ball insights that may or may not eventually prove to be true. However, in short to your inquiry about "bones", I think the honest answer is "Yes". You were indeed supposed to respond to these things. Elements like the rape, baby murder, Baltar's under the desk hobby, etc. were just parts of "good drama". If you didn't like them, they weren't supposed to be anything more than mere moments in a much larger story base. Nobody likes everything in any series. Why should small parts here and there hold such importance to any faction of an audience?

I don't agree with this thinking but I understand it. I think its important to keep in mind.


I can believe this. Sometimes those in charge are so immersed in their own "reality" which defines truth as that being what they will to be true that they really cannot fathom life in the "real world" and so-called real-world reactions. Otherwise, they wouldn't be surprised at our lack of enthusiasm.


Ron once told me that he was confident that he'd faithfully recreated Battlestar Galactica. He was telling a story about a group of survivors chased by killer robots who were seeking a place called Earth that they weren't all certain really existed.

There wasn't a doubt in his mind it was essentially the exact same story, just polished up and made more sophisticated.


That sort of reminds me of those old western sets which showed storefront facades from the street but, when you looked inside there were only 2x4's holding up the facade.. nothing else there.

From the street, it looked like a store but, closer examination revealed an empty shell. That's what GINO was to me.


I'd think most in Hollywood would agree with him. Keep in mind, this is a culture where 2-hour films are summarized in two sentences. Anything more is useless banter, at least at the exec level. I seriously doubt the folks in charge of giving a thumbs up or thumbs down for a Galactica film recall half of what Ron had in his series. They likely know far less about the original and they aren't much interested in finding out.

They do know that GINO had "some big battleships and some fighters flying around and killer robots trying to destroy everyone. In the midst, a group of humans from some alien planet are trying to find Earth." In other words, it was the exact same formula used in 1978. It is Battlestar Galactica. What they don't get is the purpose for all the whining.


A good question would be to ask what the average age was, of these execs. If they were in the 20 or 30-something crowd then, chances are they wouldn't know much beyond "instant gratification". This generation is too impatient to wait for anything and why should they wait. They have cell phones, instant messaging, text messaging when on the go and terrific broadband internet capability when at home that lets them be "right there" with anyone on Earth. I've had conversations with my daughter, who's 21, about this very thing and told her that her generation probably has no clue how to interpret "body language" because so few of them actually carry on face-to-face conversations. Most of them just wear out their thumbs texting.


I think some along the way do grasp that Ron really tried to make his effort something we would like, at least in the very beginning. He also came back around later on and "threw us other bones". These didn't get much of a response but again, I'd say for some, they were the measuring stick as to what would pay off and what wouldn't.


Don't get me wrong, I actually liked a fair amount of Ron's work on Trek. He wrote some good episodes and stayed true to canon. I was just truly disappointed how little care he gave to the foundation that was Galactica. After all, Glen had to have done something right with the Original Series if we were still talking about it over 20 years later. That's what many of us, and I would think that you're included in that group, thought that Ron spit on when he came out with his so-called "revolutionary, genre-reinventing show". He didn't have to make so many severe changes.


I'm pretty sure Universal feels this way. For them, killer robots are killer robots and Ron was kind enough to provide killer robots that looked like they did in 1978. The old spaceship designs were injected into the series. Ron even brought back Cain and the Beings of Light. He gave us the DeSanto storyline and Return of Starbuck.


Perhaps we're nerdy. Perhaps we're anal. But, I think that you'd agree that the show takes on a completely different dynamic when the killer robots go from being a creation of another race to being a creation of your own race. This was another instance of where he lost me. I did not view the humans as being the "failed creation".


He didn't have to do any of this. He was free to add or delete whatever he wanted. He put in the extra effort to reach out to us and each and every time, we just complained.

Based on my exchanges with a few people, and some of the scripted comments from those paid by the production to post on the boards, I am quite certain this is a running theme in the thinking of almost all connected with GINO.


I agree that he really didn't owe us beans. It was his show. However, if he wasn't going to write a show that could appeal to us then, he shouldn't have been surprised when we responded negatively.


You may recall that when either Razor or the Plan came out, a few hit the boards and bragged that there was a present for the original series fans embedded in that DVD. It was the classic "Fleeing from the Cylon Tyranny --" ending with Olmos narrating.

I know from at least two who worked on the project that they thought we would really get enthusiastic about this and would (hopefully) buy the DVD and perhaps view GINO with more favor. They sincerely thought it was a gift that once word got out, quite a few would respond to. Everyone can think what they will about Ron and David Eick but there were quite a few others who were involved in the production who never held any ill feelings towards the fans and viewed the original series with a lot of favor. They were also put off by all of our reactions.

In the case of this DVD, it turned out to be another example of why we were a group that could never be satisfied. A few commented that it was a pure insult to the original series, something that felt like a knife in the chest to at least some of the crew who worked on putting the DVD together. It convinced them that Ron Moore was right.


I truly don't know how someone, in an executive capacity, could be so naive to think that a simple, albeit rather noteworthy, closing narration could bring the lost sheep back into the fold. Did they truly think that we were so shallow minded that we start liking something so disliked simply because of that narration?

If so, I'm glad that they don't negotiate international treaties. :D


Again, I'm not trying to argue that anyone was right or wrong but am saying that its important to understand this thinking if you're going to interpret any future production called Galactica. I think it does represent how Universal feels about the overall situation.

I think it also supports the claim that if this film presses forward and fails, you can call it the final official Galactica production any of us will see for a long, long time.

All my best,


Russelll

Understood. I may behoove Universal, however, to do a bit more legwork this time and try a little harder to understand their audience.

[Apolloisall]

I may behoove Universal, however, to do a bit more legwork this time and try a little harder to understand their audience.
Again, TOO simple to do. ALL they have to do is recruit YOU, an intelligent fan who can articulate his thoughts on felgercarb.
Or ANYONE who started this site.
It's easy.
All too easy.

(OOPs, a little Vader slipped in there!) :eek::rotf:

[BST]

Thanks for the kind words. :salute:

After the kind of day I had, it helps immensely.

;)

[Apolloisall]

After the kind of day I had, it helps immensely.


Hmmm, dealing with the public, I take it...:/:

http://byyourcommand.net/photogallery/albums/BattleofGalactica/Cylon_Universal_2.jpg

[Gemini1999]

Like Russell, I stuck out the entire run of the Sci Fi Channel series from beginning to end. I fall into the "train wreck" category...

At times, I was watching it and reading all of those wonderful comments at the Skiffy board and wondering why I wasn't seeing what they were seeing. I could separate the new show from the original show, or else I wouldn't be able to watch it at all. I saw those "easter eggs" that Moore and Co. threw in every now and again, but it didn't really change the series much or it's appeal. They were nice little moments, but I didn't see how they could appeal to a group of people that were no longer interested. It may have been around for 4 years, but I never saw the same quality of storytelling that critics and TNS fans went on about. It was just something to watch....until the last episode. Many dyed-in-the-wool TNS fans railed against it, but I loved it. It was that kind of depth - storytelling that moved you on an emotional and intellectual level and it was finally there. Having the Colonials abandon their ships and technology for an uncertain future on a primitive paradise was one of the bravest choices the writers and producers could ever make.

Russell pointed out the political bent that TNS took and how it appealed to uber-liberals. Quite frankly, I'm a liberal and it didn't appeal to me at all. They didn't take events from daily headlines and cleverly craft it into the story - they just ripped the pages from the newspapers and turned the story in that direction. I really hated the show when it went down that road. The first season of TNS is really the only season that I actually liked because they were actually trying to give the series a direction and a voice, but that got lost along the way. It became a cable version of Lost - it wandered about aimlessly and plot points got abandoned, questions ignored. I know that in real life we don't always get answers and closure to every part of our lives, but on a TV series, you can control that - realistic or not. I never bore Ron Moore or any of his production team any ill will over their efforts because of the direction it went in - I gave it a chance and stuck with it until th end, good or bad. That's about all anyone could ask from a viewer.

At times, I think that one of the biggest mistakes that modern TV and film producers is to try to make sense of all the commentary that comes from the internet. It's like trying to create a show by committee. If fans can't agree about what they like, then why are their comments so valuable?

If Universal is actually going to create an all new film project - keep the core concept and ideas and move forward with it, but be willing to get whatever they get from it. Maybe it will start a new chapter for Battlestar Galactica as a film franchis, or maybe it will go the way of Firefly after the Serenity film came and went - as a final chapter that said "hey, we tried..." or something like that.

If Singer wants to do this, then do it...or not and then just let it go.

It's a tough gig, sci fi programming. These days, sci fi fans have so little patience with new projects. If they don't like it in one or two episodes (sometimes not even that), they're gone. I don't entirely blame the audience though - the projects that studios are turning out for the genre are either really intelligent (which means they won't get a large enough audience), or not well written, but appealing on a visual level - which means that story quality is weak, but will pull in just large enough of an audience to keep it around until even that group gets bored with it.

If you hang around Sci Fi boards these days (here and elsewhere), the discussions have died down well below how they used to be. When a new project comes up, there's a little bit of discussion, but you see more discussion about non-genre series and films instead. Even that's much less discussion than before. When there is discussion about genre projects, it's generally short lived (unless there's an argument about Trek 2009) and rather scathing in general.

Maybe the group of fans that the studios would like to court have grown up a bit and have higher expectations than studios are willing to invest in. I can sit and watch classic Sci Fi programming and films on DVD and enjoy them for what they offer, but I also realise that those same shows and films would never make it in today's TV and film market. Audiences have different expectations than they did 10, 20, or 30 years ago. That said, it is interesting that Universal is still willing to court the idea of a Battlestar Galactica film project - especially when that same studio is invested in Blood and Chrome, but relegating it to the internet as a venue. That says to me that they are indeed guarded over investing too much time, money or effort in a new BSG project, but not to the point where it stops them altogether. I'm thinking that they're looking at Trek 2009 and thinking "if we could do something like that...", which means court and entirely new audience with the hopes of pulling in enough curious older fans, they'll make enough money for it to be worthwhile.

I guess that we'll just see if this thing can go the distance or not.

Bryan

[Dawg]

We really don't need to rehash the discussions we had, ad nauseum, back in 2003-2004-2005... We all know what we like and dislike and we all bear the wounds of the wars that were waged back then. We don't need them reopened.

Russell is exactly right. Then, we thought it was simple to understand what we were saying, to understand why we were so intransigent on the subject. We understood the differences and assumed that they did, too. We did not understand the mindset of the Hollywood execs who had - and have - no concept of what a rich backstory and established mythos brings, who have little imagination, and can only understand the lowest common denominator - killer robots chasing humans across the galaxy - and profit margin.

And so when they responded to us, we took their response as disrespectful and reacted accordingly.

We should have known. Most of us remember Star Trek's origin story, that it didn't sell until Roddenberry told the execs that it was "Wagon Train to the stars," and had to shoot a second pilot when the first proved "too cerebral" (which went on to be one of the best episodes they produced, but that's beside the point).

But we didn't, and our reactions also played into the hands of the trolls, some hired guns and some just in it for the trouble. It was a complete waste of time, and it hurt us more than it helped us.

So Russell is right. I expect that anything further produced under the banner of "Battlestar Galactica" will not resemble our "Battlestar Galactica" in any meaningful way. I hope I'm wrong, I hope Singer and his writer(s) have a more "JJ Abrams Star Trek" plan than the complete reject-and-rewrite scenario we have seen so far. But I won't be holding my breath.

So I will enjoy what fanfic and fan films are created in our Galactica universe, and support my fellow fans in their creative endeavors. And if and when a movie comes, I will watch the trailers and see if it interests me.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Apolloisall]

I'm thinking that they're looking at Trek 2009 and thinking "if we could do something like that...", which means court and entirely new audience with the hopes of pulling in enough curious older fans, they'll make enough money for it to be worthwhile.

Bryan, as die-hard Trek fan, I have to say I liked the JJ flick because of what Moore's series didn't deliver- a sense that I was seeing my beloved characters brought back. Sure, I had issues with the Enterprise design, even MORE issues with the phaser & engineering design, but in the end, they seemed to 'get' that the characters were ALL important, and that the story of the ship & crew & direction of the heart of Trek was central to the telling of the tale.
If we can get that from a new version of Galactica, I'd be overjoyed. Even IF the Viper is redesigned.:no:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Before the miniseries hit the air, I offered to Ron to have a small group of fans provide the background for Galactica (as he wasn't well versed in it) and be something of an advisory board. He said "Who would these fans be and who do they really represent?" At first I thought that a snide response but the more I thought about it, the more I saw the wisdom in it.

If he presses this into an actual production, Singer will present a story concept that will be summarized in three paragraphs. Before money is released, an actual script will be finalized. There will be a lot of noise along the way but in the end, it will be Singer and whatever producer he's working with who will determine the direction of the show. Right now, he's seemingly managed to get someone in the Black Tower to consider doing "a Galactica film". How closely it adheres to the original series remains to be seen.

I recently read Ron's original concepts for GINO and was quite impressed by it. I'll go as far as to say I thought it was amazingly good. If I'd have have seen it before the show aired, I'd have told him that I thought any fan of Galactica would really like what he was doing. I'd have also been quite confident that he was indeed improving the franchise.

The problem came in the actual application. In my opinion, Ron's largest shortfall was that he couldn't take a good plan and just run with it. He kept revamping it over and over and over until it was a complete mess and typically a mess that held some pretty offensive elements. I'd suggest that if Singer managaes to get this underway, the same vulnerability will be the biggest danger as to whether or not this film pleases the original series fans. There's a lot of mechanisms that go into play in making a film but I do think someone like Bryan Singer has a stronger background to make them unfold properly than the team of David Eick and Ron Moore. Singer's choice for a screenwriter seems to be a good first step.

If personal preferences matter, I'd say I'm curious about this film and haven't risen beyond that level. If it is indeed a fusion, I may accept it on those merits. I liked the pilot of Caprica but wasn't much interested in checking out the rest of the series. Likewise, Blood and Chrome seems interesting but not necessarily enough to find it on the web and actually go through the bother of downloading it. I'd watch this film simply to see where Singer would take Galactica but I wouldn't cross my fingers hoping for a revamped Star Trek sort of miracle. I really don't see that sort of thing happening as the track record for Universal pushing forward with the smart course for the continuation of any sort of property hasn't been all that good in the past. You need look no further than the Frankenstein films to see the same dismal patterns that drove Galactica in the ground at play back in the days when Boris Karloff was the household name. Watch "Frankenstein" and then "House of Frankenstein" and you can see the same decison approach at work.

In Universal's defense, the film industry has rarely been rewarded for backing well-made films. The lowest common denominator is indeed what brings in profits. Just as I wasn't in the target audience for GINO, I know I won't be for this film either. The 50-ish age group doesn't garner a lot of attention or respect from Hollywood and its a long path from script to finished production. I still don't think this film will ever see a minute on the screen but if it does, I'll give it a chance. If it ties into GINO, I might be inspired to watch Caprica and Blood and Chrome. I sincerely doubt I'll ever watch a minute of GINO again but I'm not so opposed to something based on the GINO universe that I wouldn't see what it might offer under a different production team.

[monolith21]

Its funny, I've gotten to the point where it surprises me that the RDM show comes up at all in this discussion. Such a non issue for me when I read news about the film (for better or worse). That thing came and went. Hardly on my radar.

If we can't have a discussion without it coming up I think that is sort of a shame. No offense of course, I can understand why it would. I've been in on more than my fair share for sure!

This news is a good turn for now. Could turn out bad, but I think it is good to be positive. Band of Brothers was good.

[Senmut]

We should have known. Most of us remember Star Trek's origin story, that it didn't sell until Roddenberry told the execs that it was "Wagon Train to the stars," and had to shoot a second pilot when the first proved "too cerebral" (which went on to be one of the best episodes they produced, but that's beside the point).



The difference is Trek was Roddenberry's baby. He wrote it, and he rewrote it. BSG was Larson's, and the concept raider Moore turned it into diaper rash.
Apples and oranges.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Trek was Roddenberry's baby but the point is that to sell a project to those who will release the money, it has to be filtered to its most bare elements.

And sincerely, I do not intend any of this to be a slam against any productions. They are what they are. I have two sets of Galactica 1980 (one pirated and another official) and enjoy them for what they provide.

I differ from Monolith in that I think discussions of what's happened in the past are very relevant to what is happening now. We are likely on the same page in that being angry about anything that has occurred is completely useless. Sincerely, its been 8 years since GINO came along. We can accept it or not but if it raises your blood pressure, then you may want to ask why its still an issue. Why not get angry about Galactica 1980 or the Watergate scandal?

And as unlikely as I still think this production is to transform into anything that will ever hit the screen, I have to admit, after learning an A-list writer is involved, it is the first time since 2003 that I've gotten a bit of a thrill wondering how a Galactica production might unfold. I wish Tom DeSanto were attached to this as that would give me a lot more confidence that it would come off as something I could enjoy but it is what it is.

All my best,


Russell

[peter noble]

I've got to agree with Monolith.

I'm going to go and watch the stuff written b7 Orloff.

Band of Brothers: 'Day of Days' (written by John Orloff)

Easy Company are dropped behind enemy lines in Normandy ahead of the Allied Assault on Utah Beach. However, the paratroopers are scattered across the battleground. Winters finds himself landing in enemy territory with only his knife.

Future Battlestar Galactica screenplay Orloff writer acquits himself well with Easy Company's baptism of fire during the Normandy Landings of June 1944.

It's hard to judge his abilities with an adaptation of something based on real events, but this moves like it's powered by rockets and gives the viewer something of the sense of what a man faces in combat, showing the camaraderie, bravery, stupidity and cruelty of human beings asked to do extraordinary things under extremely difficult circumstances.

5/5

[Andreas]

Hello,
for me was Battlestar Galactica (special the Pilot) to big for the small screen.
Special in Europe we saw Battlestar Galactica (Pilot) in the Cimema also
a living legend and later a disappointed Galactica 1980 cut.
Later it came the Battlestar Galactica to the TV by us (Germany) and yes we was some disappointed of all the same special effects (flight scenes) again and again and some storys.
But the best Episodes was always the 2 Part episodes.
What i want to say is Glen A. Larson had a lot of story ideas and concepts for the show but it was to expensiv and time-consuming to make it for TV.
A lot of things what the want to do for the show other aliens ,planets, ships,
and,and., they didn't can't do this at this time.
For me Battlestar Galactica was always in my mind as a big epic space opera
and made for the big screen.
I never understand Universal the had a franchise on his hand who could so big like Star Wars with all the merchandising.
Sorry for my bad english.

[Apolloisall]

I never understand Universal the had a franchise on his hand who could so big like Star Wars with all the merchandising.
Sorry for my bad english.

We understand you fine!
I saw Galactica (the pilot/first movie) in the cinema too! It was GREAT!!!!
Universal was stupid to let it all go away!:/:

[Gin Rummy]

We understand you fine!
I saw Galactica (the pilot/first movie) in the cinema too! It was GREAT!!!!
Universal was stupid to let it all go away!:/:

Didn't see it in theaters (born that year of Gal's creation) but I did see the movie version - and I've always felt one of the biggest appeals is that every episode of the series is - or attempts to be - of movie caliber. I'm very glad to see so much talk about a new Galactica MOVIE.

[Andreas]

It was great in the Cinema and with ''Sensurround'' :thumbsup:

[jewels]

I guess my take on it is to hope they A) Actually get her done this time; B) Hope they pay the original as much respect as JJ Abrams Trek movie (loved that); C) Hope that enough of the original concept is there so that it's recognizable; D) Hope that it is embraced by the general public like the original series was, because if so: E) it will be financially successful then.

It's only hope; but looking back over this thread trying to find the newest parts: it's the best hope in 2 years.

Jewels

[Apolloisall]

It was great in the Cinema and with ''Sensurround'' :thumbsup:
Wasn't it fun when the chairs shook? A local theatre later ceased Sensurround showings when a chandelier fell. LOL.

[martok2112]

I never got to see Galactica on the big screen, but from everything I gather about this "Sensurround" it was nothing more than a bass booster....and not true surround sound like Dolby. The movie was shot in monaural sound.

[Andreas]

I never got to see Galactica on the big screen, but from everything I gather about this "Sensurround" it was nothing more than a bass booster....and not true surround sound like Dolby. The movie was shot in monaural sound.
I only remember you had the feeling you are standing on the Galactica and Viper starts are also great.:D
Sure today they can do a lot more and may be they Filming in Real 3D?? with the Digital Cameras in 3D (like the Hobbit)!
Ok i know i know I'am dreaming again.

[Apolloisall]

it was nothing more than a bass booster.
That's an understatement. It could shake your fillings out.:rotf:

[Tenement]

Seeing the Galactica movie on a really big, big screen and with the Sensurround speakers made it a real special treat. It might not have the bells and whistles of the current 3D movie, but back in the late 70's, early 80's it was movie going paradise. (And it was a regular ticket price.) :)

[Andreas]

Seeing the Galactica movie on a really big, big screen and with the Sensurround speakers made it a real special treat. It might not have the bells and whistles of the current 3D movie, but back in the late 70's, early 80's it was movie going paradise. (And it was a regular ticket price.) :)

Yeah its a shame that none of the Movies who had the Sensurround sound,
have the sound on DVD or Blu-Ray!?
Back in the 70's 8o's the get a Oscar for the sound ? or not?

[Apolloisall]

Seeing the Galactica movie on a really big, big screen and with the Sensurround speakers made it a real special treat. It might not have the bells and whistles of the current 3D movie, but back in the late 70's, early 80's it was movie going paradise. (And it was a regular ticket price.) :)
You KNOW it!!!:salute::thumbsup:

[Apolloisall]

Yeah its a shame that none of the Movies who had the Sensurround sound,
have the sound on DVD or Blu-Ray!?


A super sub-woofer aimed at your floorboards can fix that!:rotf:

[Gemini1999]

I remember seeing Battlestar Galactica in Sansurround when it was available in theaters. We arrived late and wound up sitting in the very front...which was about 10-15 feet from one of one of the Sensurround speakers below the screen!

When the Galactica was passing serenely across the screen, the mild rumble sound effect used was boosted to a level that made you feel that Battlestar cross the screen rather than watch it. The battle scenes were terrific, but we really began to cringe when a ship went across the frame with nothing else happening.

A memorable experience to say the least. I know that I saw it at least twice in the theater.

Good times...
Bryan

[Apolloisall]

I know that I saw it at least twice in the theater.

Good times...
I think it was twice for me as well...:thumbsup:
*rumble*:rotf:

[Benedict]

Maybe bring sensurround back if they ever get this to the big screen. Failing that I'll hijack the local cinema and try to hotwire it A-Team style for sensurround and find a suitable copy of Saga.

Or some such.

[Apolloisall]

I'll hijack the local cinema and try to hotwire it A-Team style for sensurround and find a suitable copy of Saga.

Or some such.

http://cruiserrevolution.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/face-from-a-team-dirk-benedict.jpg
The Faceman approves!:rotf:

[Benedict]

http://cruiserrevolution.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/face-from-a-team-dirk-benedict.jpg
The Faceman approves!:rotf:

should I ever meet the man I'll put the idea to him. Never know, some independent movie could be made from it :)

In 2012, actors made famous in cult TV shows decided to re-live their roles...if you need them, if you want to help them...

Well, I digress. :yikes:

[Apolloisall]

In 2012, actors made famous in cult TV shows decided to re-live their roles...if you need them, if you want to help them...


give to the United Galactica Way.
;)

[jewels]

In 2012, actors made famous in cult TV shows decided to re-live their roles...if you need them, if you want to help them...

Well, I digress. :yikes:

Your digression cracked me up. Oh, the possibilities. :D

I loved seeing it in the theater too. I don't think we technically had the actual sensoround speakers: but we did have the Dolby speakers that the theater owner and a local sound engineer built for Star Wars. In a 200-220 seat theater, it was every bit as awesome a rumble. :D I've wanted to see that ship rumble it's way across the big screen again, ever since.

Jewels

[Senmut]

Sadly, our local theatre had no Sensurround equipment. I always thought that the Atlantia blowing up would have been fab!

[137th Gebirg]

While not a terribly flattering view towards TOS, this is good news for fans of the same:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/debbiedowner/news/?a=49900

Unfortunately. some people just can't get past the budgetary and technological limitations of that era. :no:

[GalacticanCajun]

as usual the fans of the New BSG say it is going to fail. Me I plan to be in line to see this on day one.

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Yup, me too.

[Apolloisall]

^^^ Me three.

[Benedict]

While not a terribly flattering view towards TOS, this is good news for fans of the same:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/debbiedowner/news/?a=49900

Unfortunately. some people just can't get past the budgetary and technological limitations of that era. :no:

some of the comments on that article put the wind up my Viper. New BSG fans have a superiority complex.

Thus in the vein of the posts above, make it four.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I agree with Michael Hinman's comment. Doesn't seem like this guy knows anything more than the rumors flying around. The article was pretty much an excuse to take a dump on the original series and give Ron some praise.

It also strikes me just how many people commenting across the internet associate GINO with Ron Moore. They're all casual fans who intimately know the details of the GINO production crew.

I find that odd. I wonder how many fans of "Desperate Housewives", "Firefly", or "Married with Children" can tell you who wrote the episodes. Surprisingly, everyone who comments on Singer's effort knows all about him and feels the need to praise Ron Moore as a writer and as a genius who launched a great reimagining.

I'd think most would simply call it "the new version" or "the new show" or something like that.

Curious.


Russell

[Titon]

Interesting enough is 2 spinoffs from the series have failed horribly....Caprica was cancelled and Blood and Chrome can't even make it to the internet.

If Moore's version was so highly successful why no movie version?

[Apolloisall]

I wonder how many fans of .. "Firefly".. can tell you who wrote the episodes.

I can.

Ooops, digressed too much here... carry on.:duck:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Interesting enough is 2 spinoffs from the series have failed horribly....Caprica was cancelled and Blood and Chrome can't even make it to the internet.

If Moore's version was so highly successful why no movie version?

I think that's what a few serious GINO fans are asking themselves. I doubt many know the actual numbers and financials behind the series. They just know it was highly praised and they liked it.

My observation is that an awful lot of the criticisms being added to the comments on these articles sound like the same canned posts that have previously been associated with the usual suspects, not the sort of thing you'd expect from a real group of fans. They read as if they're coming off the same script and they all seem well-versed in both Ron Moore and Bryan Singer. Their knowledge seems to include the history of both, which I find a bit odd for fans who seemingly just watched a series and liked it. Obviously, the articles are tailored to a bit more sophisticated group but I'd expect a wider array of knowledge among those who responded.

As I said, -- curious.


Russell

[Apolloisall]

I see some similarities between Matrix Reloaded & GINO...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knFmjVf0jVk

:rotf:

[BST]

I wonder if Teddy is rearing his head again?

[Apolloisall]

I wonder if Teddy is rearing his head again?

Who's Teddy?:?:

[BST]

Who's Teddy?:?:

You don't want to know.

Trust me.

;)

[Senmut]

Roosevelt?

[Titon]

You don't want to know.

Trust me.

;)

Now THIS would make an interesting sequel along the lines of Footloose!

:D

In all honesty Pete is right....you have NO idea about this pandora box..


:blink:

[137th Gebirg]

Is that Languatron's real name?

[BST]

Is that Languatron's real name?

No.

Languatron's real name is Andrew Fullen.

:rolleyes: He's so famous that he even has his own page on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=andrew+fullen&sprefix=andrew+fullen

He's nuts! Plain, unsalted, non-roasted nuts!

;)

[Apolloisall]

:rolleyes: He's so famous that he even has his own page on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=andrew+fullen&sprefix=andrew+fullen


Very prolific. I like that in a Mr. Peanut.:rotf:

[BST]

Very prolific. I like that in a Mr. Peanut.:rotf:

Ah, the sickness done spreadeth!

Sleep well tonite, I will!!

:D

[Lara]

:rolleyes: He's so famous that he even has his own page on Amazon:
;)

memories, memories..

Even a couple of preview pages of Langyrant is something best tackled with a clear head and a stiff drink.. vintage!!

Cheers,
Lara

[Senmut]

Proteus ambrosia?

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Doesn't smell like Teddy, -- at least not yet.

Does smell like a couple of hired board posters following their scripts.

Lang is a complete nutjob but he was right about stealth marketers being hired to promote GINO. Of course he also believes that George W. Bush was an alien sent to Earth to destroy the human race and that our financial crisis can be solved by clicking our heels together and saying "There's no place like home".

All my best,


Russel

[BST]

Doesn't smell like Teddy, -- at least not yet.

Does smell like a couple of hired board posters following their scripts.

Lang is a complete nutjob but he was right about stealth marketers being hired to promote GINO. Of course he also believes that George W. Bush was an alien sent to Earth to destroy the human race and that our financial crisis can be solved by clicking our heels together and saying "There's no place like home".

All my best,


Russel

He didn't quite seem the type to be in the "Hope" crowd.

[137th Gebirg]

Well, I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but it looks like Singer has changed course...again...and got signed on to the Munsters Remake (http://theflickcast.com/2011/11/30/bryan-singer-to-bring-the-munsters-back-to-tv/) on TV. No specific word on whether he's shelved BSG...again...but if he's going back into episodic television, I'm not sure how he would be able to pull of a BSG feature, and I think he's also still involved with House as well. There are, after all, only so many hours in the day. :(

[Bootlegger 137]

Well, I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but it looks like Singer has changed course...again...and got signed on to the Munsters Remake (http://theflickcast.com/2011/11/30/bryan-singer-to-bring-the-munsters-back-to-tv/) on TV. No specific word on whether he's shelved BSG...again...but if he's going back into episodic television, I'm not sure how he would be able to pull of a BSG feature, and I think he's also still involved with House as well. There are, after all, only so many hours in the day. :(

Greetings everyone:

Yeah I just about the Munsters Remake. I'm still hopeful that we have a big screen production. :cry:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Since this film effort has been nothing but bad news, any positive spark is hopeful but I'm also left wondering if there has ever been a project that Singer hasn't put higher on his priority list than trying to develop Galactica?

I suspect the moment he's offered the chance to do the live action version of "Hello Kitty" or a remake of "Bedtime for Bonzo", Galactica will get kicked to the curb for another year or so.

Looks like the "other effort" is in a bad limbo state as well. Hinman reports this at http://www.airlockalpha.com/node/8792/sci-fis-turkeys-just-in-time-for-thanksgiving.html :

'Blood & Chrome' rises and falls before anyone sees it
It's amazing how that circle of life sometimes works on Syfy. "Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome" was originally intended as a Web series. But when another "Battlestar" prequel "Caprica" was cancelled, Syfy decided to promote the Web production into an actual series.

But now it's back to the Web, and no one really knows why. The pilot went before the cameras many months ago, and yet Syfy still has not announced a premiere date, or even where fans might be able to see it.

Officially, "Blood & Chrome" has been hampered by post-production problems. Like "Sanctuary," many of the environments are CGI-created. But few observers believe that's actually the case, and feel there are other things holding it back. For example, "Sanctuary" somehow is able to pull off this post-production process with ease.

Plus Doug Drexler, who is handling special effects (and is known for his revolutionary special effects work in franchises like Star Trek) tells Airlock Alpha special effects for "Blood & Chrome" are not only done, but they look amazing.

Is there anyone who didn't see this coming?

All my best,


Russell

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah, it was more likely than not to collapse...but The Munsters?? Really?!? Geez! :no:

[peter noble]

Jesus Christ, he's directing a pilot for the 2011-12 TV season!

That takes a couple of weeks to do.

The script for the proposed BG film is in the early stages of being written and then it's probably going to have to be rewritten, approved, budgeted if it gets greenlit for production, what two, three YEARS from now?

It is possible to juggle more than one project at once (as long as things like start dates don't overlap). It's called multitasking.

>Facepalm<

[Gemini1999]

Jesus Christ, he's directing a pilot for the 2011-12 TV season!

That takes a couple of weeks to do.

The script for the proposed BG film is in the early stages of being written and then it's probably going to have to be rewritten, approved, budgeted if it gets greenlit for production, what two, three YEARS from now?

It is possible to juggle more than one project at once (as long as things like start dates don't overlap). It's called multitasking.

>Facepalm<

Peter -

No kiddding...JJ Abrams has film and TV projects going concurrently all the time. Bryan Singer has also previously done TV and film projects concurrently as well. I doubt that Singer is going to direct the entire series - even if it does get picked up from the new pilot. I see producing on his plate, but that's about it.

Jumping to conclusions without facts is what the BG fanbase does best.

Bryan

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I respect yours and Peter's optimism but I think I've read this script before.

As I'm a man who believes that one should always stand behind their words, I'll go on record now in my belief that if this film ever does come to completion, it won't be under Singer's leadership.

I really wish it were otherwise but I find it improbable that it will ever make it to the screen no matter who is at the helm and give it about a 20% chance of eventually becoming a direct download in any form or fashion.

We'll see in a couple of years if I jumped to any conclusions.

All my best,


Russell

[BST]

I just wish that we'd get more than ...


"Singer's going to do the Galactica film"
"He's doing something else now"

"Singer's going to do the Galactica film"
"He's doing something else now"

"Singer's going to do the Galactica film"
"He's doing something else now"


It's tiring. I'd like to see some concrete movement behind the Galactica film or just move on. It's getting to the point that the movie will probably be anti-climactic, given all this damned drama that's preceding it.

IF it ever gets done.

Who knows, maybe if the Munster remake is successful, he might get a chance to do a spinoff ...

:rolleyes:

[Gemini1999]

I respect yours and Peter's optimism but I think I've read this script before.

As I'm a man who believes that one should always stand behind their words, I'll go on record now in my belief that if this film ever does come to completion, it won't be under Singer's leadership.

I really wish it were otherwise but I find it improbable that it will ever make it to the screen no matter who is at the helm and give it about a 20% chance of eventually becoming a direct download in any form or fashion.

We'll see in a couple of years if I jumped to any conclusions.

Russell -

The only conclusion jumping I'm talking about is in the present. We have an article that states that Singer is signing on to produce and direct a TV pilot. What we don't have is anything that states that he's moving off or delaying development on the Galactica film as a result of that.

What happens six months, a year, or even two years could change a dozen times over by then. I've always been the optimistic type - if the glass is half empty, then I want to see a half empty glass. Until then, it's all just supposition and speculation.

As for what's happening with Blood and Chrome, it's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned when I consider who's helming the project. If Skiffy execs can't get behind it, then they shouldn't have even bothered with the pilot. They showed more conviction with Caprica, which was a project that was actually shelved until they had NuGalactica end ahead of schedule and figured that fans of that series would migrate over to it to get their fix. It was poorly crafted and executed - mainly because the focus of the show played like Dallas on another planet, which wasn't all that different from what I saw of it.

Blood and Chrome might look good on paper and it might have great effects, but if it doesn't play, then it doesn't play. In my mind, it means that they didn't focus on the execution and story like the should have, or it would be getting more attention from the execs.

[Apolloisall]

the show played like Dallas on another planet,
LOL!!! Yeah :thumbsup:

[martok2112]

I'm certain I might be echoing other sentiments (spoken or otherwise) in this, but I think that a big screen film would do better under someone with a Nicholas Meyer styled attachment to the film. Someone who is not exactly a fan of Classic Galactica, but actually does take the time out to watch the best that the show had to offer, focuses on those elements, and gives us a worthwhile and memorable film that might even show promise for a sequel or two.

[peter noble]

Russell -

The only conclusion jumping I'm talking about is in the present. We have an article that states that Singer is signing on to produce and direct a TV pilot. What we don't have is anything that states that he's moving off or delaying development on the Galactica film as a result of that.

What happens six months, a year, or even two years could change a dozen times over by then. I've always been the optimistic type - if the glass is half empty, then I want to see a half empty glass. Until then, it's all just supposition and speculation.

As for what's happening with Blood and Chrome, it's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks Bryan.

I've got to say tha the utter failure of TOS fans to actually comprehend the information that comes out linked with this film fills me with despair.

As for Blood & Chrome, I though CF had a policy about not discussing anything concerning the new series, so why it keeps getting brought up I don't know (and yes, I'm guilty of this and I do actually think Syfy's treatment of the project is wrong-headed).

[BST]

Thanks Bryan.

I've got to say tha the utter failure of TOS fans to actually comprehend the information that comes out linked with this film fills me with despair.

As for Blood & Chrome, I though CF had a policy about not discussing anything concerning the new series, so why it keeps getting brought up I don't know (and yes, I'm guilty of this and I do actually think Syfy's treatment of the project is wrong-headed).

Peter,

Check PM. :)

Pete

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Admittedly, my experience is with independent filmmakers but every director and producer I know who are working on a project are totally into that project. They live it day in and day out. Its all they talk about. Its all they think about. Its not something they do as casual entertainment.

Our window of knowledge is small but from what we have seen, IMO, Singer hasn't shown much dedication to Galactica. He's made more progress than anyone since GINO came along but it hasn't seemed like his driving effort. I find this a bad combination given the obstacles that any Galactica effort now faces.

Further, someone noted that whenever Singer isn't hovering over the effort, nothing gets done. When he shifts attention, everything comes to a standstill. Now he's doing "The Munsters". I don't find that a trivial development. Its at least not in line with the filmmakers that I know. You can interpret it as a small change but in my view, its like a stock moving under its 200 day moving average. Its an indicator of what is to follow.

Despite Peter's admonishment, I don't see this as a "failure to comprehend". I have a different interpretation of the data on hand. I don't think that makes my view less valid. I'd appreciate it if that view was respected, even if others don't agree with it.

Truthfully, I try to be a glass half full guy myself but I also try to call things as I see them and in this case, my personal wishes to see a Galactica film don't erase the practical elements I see. I like to speculate as to what such a film might be about but I also don't ignore the speed bumps when we crash over them. In this case, I think the we just lost the transmission.

As I said, we can see in 2 years if I was off the mark. I'll happily put on the dunce cap and sit in the corner if future events prove me wrong but I really doubt that will happen.

Regarding the GINO-ban, I think that rule is antiquated. It was developed at a time when there were paid promoters of the program running around the boards. They were mixed with what I might call "campaigners" who were combative of anything critical of their show. I'd like to think that the permanent membership here is a bit higher class than the problems that existed at the time. I know part of this situation was inspired by the actual content of GINO and the ban was implemented in part as a sort of protest but that is also an outdated idea as the show is completed and out of production.

GINO-proper is done with. GINO spin-offs are likely the future of things called Galactica, if there are any professional things called Galactica in the future. Its problematic having an intelligent discussion about contemporary developments without the ability to discuss the events from 2003 onward. Like it or not, "Blood and Chrome" is the project that is moving forward, even if it is slipping through a maze of studio madness. In my view, its also the most likely production to provide something that almost looks like it might have been spawned by the original series. To me, that makes it a relevant topic of discussion, especially since its production events are directly related to the potential of Singer's film effort.

Or, to put it another way, if developments since 2003 are permanently off the table, what else is there to talk about that we haven't already said 500 times over? I certainly don't want to see Fleets revert to the venom spitting that went on previously but I think that should come from mutual respect of the members, not banning topics that if properly discussed, have strong relevance to the contemporary issues at hand. I find no value in ranting that Universal and Ron Moore did us wrong, screwed up the franchise, yadda, yadda, yadda. I do find value in noting GINO as part of Galactica history, same as Tom DeSanto's attempt, Glen's IMAX idea, and all the rest.

Just my thoughts.

All my best,


Russell

[137th Gebirg]

Easy, guys. To recap my original post, I did caveat the link with the phrase "No specific word on whether he's shelved BSG...again".

To be fair, the "again" part is a valid concern, and both Russ and BST said it best in their subsequent posts. While we can hope to look forward to a new project, the history of this particular player - in the form of Singer - cannot be ignored. He's done this way too many times to be taken seriously by the fan base. This time sounded better than all the others since 2000, but once again, Lucy pulled the football away before we threw the kick. When will it be that we are no longer treated like poor ol' Charlie Brown, a hopeful sucker thinking - THIS time will be different! BSG has proven time and again to be a successful franchise. Interest is there. A couple more of these false starts will force interest in the casual fan to completely fizzle and then that's it. Either give it to someone who wants to make it work or stop with the empty hype machine. Nobody's benefiting from it at all.

[peter noble]

Pete, thanks for the PM.

Russell, as for whether this film getting made or not, I don't think coming back in two years to this thread and saying "I told you so." is going to make you clairvoyant, especially when the fellow fans I'm in communication with don't think this will get made!

Even, I don't think there's much chance, but then again, three people with so-called 'inside inormation' have told me that this project was dead before the recent announcement, so I'm taking everything with as pinch of salt.

A piece in November's SFX magazine states Singer's thoughts on the project.


http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3259/sfxbg.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/sfxbg.jpg/)


As of now, I think he may be in the last stage of shooting, or be in post-production on Jack The Giant Killer, he's got a web series coming out, House is still in production, he's developing Galactica, directing the Munsters pilot, and he wants to do a Six Million Dollar Man movie and they're talking about a sequel to X-men: First Class (which he produced), so that's a full plate.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Peter,

How you got "clairvoyance" from my post is beyond me.

I said if I was proven wrong I'd happily admit it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Other than that, I only stated my interpretation of the latest turn of events. That seems to have offended you, somehow. I'm a bit confused by that as well but it is what it is.

Regarding the article -- If Singer's not merely joking in his responses, -- he hasn't decided if Starbuck will be male or female??? Doesn't sound like his "radical" take on the series is going to be much in line with what most here were originally expecting. Sounds more to me like his concept is closer to GINO 2.0 than anything that matches the previous effort with Tom DeSanto, including the original remake concept. If he is joking then I wouldn't expect we're going to hear a lot of info about what they're planning for a long while, likely quite a time after the project has been unofficially abandoned (again).

At this point, it would be nice if Tom DeSanto shared the rest of his stuff, given that a lot of it has already been plundered by Ron Moore and it doesn't seem like the rest is planned for incorporation into any of the new projects. If there's a chance it would be used then I understand holding it close but if not, it would be nice to see the rest of it.

All my best,



Russell

[Apolloisall]

Regarding the article -- If Singer's not merely joking in his responses, -- he hasn't decided if Starbuck will be male or female???
Yeah, he's making a joking GINO ref IMO:rotf:
I believe it will get made, and as long as it's not filled with sex & rape & torture, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
;)

[Senmut]

What the Hades Hole is it that scares folks away from a re-do of the real BSG?
All this evasion and delay seems more than a tad contrived.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

OK, I've officially given up on Singer. Seems I'm the last to catch up on this news but in case you missed the plan for "The Munsters" (REF: http://comicbookmovie.com/fansites/debbiedowner/news/?a=50651 ) I'm not wanting him within 1000 star systems of anything called Galactica, especially since he's already calling what he wants to do to Galactica as "radical".

Fortunately, it seems less likely than even I believed that this film will ever see the light of day. I did a Google search and it truly does seem as if the Galactica gig was just a job search for him vice a project he wants to pursue. The guy is all over the map as far as projects he's working on. I respect the concept of multi-tasking but even under this idea, Galactica is at the bottom of the freakin' list. A couple months back, he and Bryan Fuller were driving to create a series called "Sellivision". When that tanked and Excalibur was axed, he found interest in Galactica. Then Munsters came along and he and Fuller were back in action. On top of this, he shifted back to X-men (same issue as happened before). Mixed with this, he's doing an internet series of 40-50 episodes. He's also talked about doing "The Six Million Dollar Man" in the near future and will also in post production for "uwantme2killhim?". (Pretty much what Peter detailed above). On top of that, he's apparently still looking to make a sequel to Superman Returns, although he says that's unlikely to happen.

Doesn't look like Blood and Chrome is going to give much of a push either way for delivering any meaningful audience projections. Seems that the test screening badly disappointed the execs. Without the special effects, it reportedly couldn't carry the day. (REF: http://www.denofgeek.com/television/1151196/whats_happened_to_battlestar_galactica_blood_chrome.html ). This claims that we'll all get a chance to see that sometime between a long time from now and never. Looks like it may well go the same path as the Lost in Space pilot.

Not looking good for anything called Galactica these days and much worse for something worth the name Galactica.

Sad.


All my best,


Russell

[Senmut]

Singer begins to sound like Moore. A parasite who gloms onto other people's creations, but never anything new. So, perhaps we should be thankful he is not doing BSG. Lords of Kobol know what he might excrete.
Again I ask...what is it about Classic BSG that seems to scare people in the industry off? I much more respect a straight statement than all this wiggling and delay.

[137th Gebirg]

Actually, he's starting to sound much worse than Moore. At least Moore was focused and got the project done, regardless of how the fandom felt about some of the content. Like Russ said, Singer is "all over the map" and has firmly entered the "flake zone" as far as I'm concerned. A fair-weather friend of his kind will do the BSG property no favors in the end, as he's clearly not vested in its future. Maybe that's what the Universal execs saw in him to begin with.

[Senmut]

Sounds quite plausible. yet still I wonder...why can't TPTB just say openly that they don't want a Classic BSG film? Why must they continue to have "negotiations" which never go anywhere, when we can all plainly see that they mean to do nothing whatsoever?

[137th Gebirg]

They're hedging. I don't think they have completely given up on TOS BSG, or else they would give guys like Singer a gag order not to discuss their involvement with it (or lack thereof) publicly. It may also be a simple legal issue of licensing. If Larson still owns the rights to big-screen versions of the property, he may be serving as a stumbling block. It's possible he may have initially given tacit approval for the project, then when he saw the potentially favorable furor on Teh Interwebz about the news, he saw dollar signs and asked for more. To which, Universal would respond, "Hang on there, Tex!" and suspend the project once again. There are so many things going on behind the scenes, much of which are bound by legal discretion and unknown to the general public, the majority of which may be outside Singer's control.

It's a brilliant shell game, if true - we're all screaming about Singer and The Suits. Has anyone ever actually brought the spotlight on Larson to see what his hand is in all this? When felgercarb goes down in BSG, the Larson camp always seems conspicuously silent.

If there's one thing I've learned from observing the Roddenberry Legacy with Star Trek, fans blindly lionize such iconic figures and quickly forget they have human failings. Roddenberry was always in it for the $$$ (hence the "IDIC" incident during TOS's run) and I suspect that Larson may also be pulling some unseen strings for his own personal gain. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the value of capitalism, but we must never forget the nasty and swift undercurrents that can arise on these occasions.

Because one thing always rings true - follow the money trail and you will ALWAYS find your answer.

[LadyImmortal]

I'm going to be honest.

I've given up on any kind if Original Galactica continuation or movie or whatever EVER being made. I really DON'T think it'll be done - ever. Sad to say that when I was one of the biggest shield bangers back in the 90s there ever was... but there you have it...

[peter noble]

They're hedging. I don't think they have completely given up on TOS BSG, or else they would give guys like Singer a gag order not to discuss their involvement with it (or lack thereof) publicly. It may also be a simple legal issue of licensing. If Larson still owns the rights to big-screen versions of the property, he may be serving as a stumbling block. It's possible he may have initially given tacit approval for the project, then when he saw the potentially favorable furor on Teh Interwebz about the news, he saw dollar signs and asked for more. To which, Universal would respond, "Hang on there, Tex!" and suspend the project once again. There are so many things going on behind the scenes, much of which are bound by legal discretion and unknown to the general public, the majority of which may be outside Singer's control.

It's a brilliant shell game, if true - we're all screaming about Singer and The Suits. Has anyone ever actually brought the spotlight on Larson to see what his hand is in all this? When felgercarb goes down in BSG, the Larson camp always seems conspicuously silent.

If there's one thing I've learned from observing the Roddenberry Legacy with Star Trek, fans blindly lionize such iconic figures and quickly forget they have human failings. Roddenberry was always in it for the $$$ (hence the "IDIC" incident during TOS's run) and I suspect that Larson may also be pulling some unseen strings for his own personal gain. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the value of capitalism, but we must never forget the nasty and swift undercurrents that can arise on these occasions.

Because one thing always rings true - follow the money trail and you will ALWAYS find your answer.


You might be in to something, about the money issue, especially considering that at the moment Glen's suing Universal for unpaid profits from the various TV series he created for them.

But also, there's another thing, Glen might have script approval like he does on the long-gestating Knight Rider movie.

At one point, a studio had the rights and they wanted to do a spoof like Starsky & Hutch. Glen held it up until the studio's option lapsed then he sold it to another studio where it's currently languishes in development hell.

I also read somewhere that Glen won't actually allow them to use the original characters for a BG movie, but I don't know where that came from.

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Interesting... so there is a proven history with other properties of these kinds of shenanigans from Larson. I think we may be pointing our ire at the wrong targets, folks.

[peter noble]

^^^ Interesting... so there is a proven history with other properties of these kinds of shenanigans from Larson. I think we may be pointing our ire at the wrong targets, folks.

Does Glen deserve ire if he's actually thinking about the integrity of the property a la the Knight Rider spoof film example?

[Titon]

Quite frankly i am glad as hell that Galactica will remain dead....

They keep f'ing everything up and i am with Sandy. Not at all keen on the idea of Singer touching Galactica. He could quite possibly screw it up worse than Moore.

Just leave it alone and don't screw with my history any longer!

:mad:

[Gemini1999]

Quite frankly i am glad as hell that Galactica will remain dead....

They keep f'ing everything up and i am with Sandy. Not at all keen on the idea of Singer touching Galactica. He could quite possibly screw it up worse than Moore.

Just leave it alone and don't screw with my history any longer!

:mad:

I can actually live with that... I would like to see a TOS BSG film, but it does give someone else the license to mess with it yet again. Maybe sleeping dogs should just lie quiet as they have been since the demise of NuSBG.

Singer's flighty nature isn't exactly impressing me as of late. I have heard his name attached to more projects than I care to hear about, but nothing ever comes of it. He's probably not the man for the job - at least not the one he used to be.

Bryan

[LadyImmortal]

Singer's name has been coming up since before GINO was made - almost 9 years ago. If he hasn't done it by now I'm hot holding my breath. Does the guy have a clue? I'm not so sure.

I'd rather see DeSanto do something if I had my druthers.

But otherwise I am with Titon...

[gmd3d]

Quite frankly i am glad as hell that Galactica will remain dead....

They keep f'ing everything up and i am with Sandy. Not at all keen on the idea of Singer touching Galactica. He could quite possibly screw it up worse than Moore.


:mad:

I have kept out of this discussion and after reading each new announcement I agree with this,
Leave it alone, as whatever they do will only disappoint ..

[137th Gebirg]

Does Glen deserve ire if he's actually thinking about the integrity of the property a la the Knight Rider spoof film example?

No he doesn't. I don't believe in any way that that is in the top 5 of his primary motivations, however. And for that, he does.

[BST]

Regardless of what happens in faraway places, we should take comfort in the fact that WE have been the Continuation, here and elsewhere. When you read the stories in the Library, when you look at the artwork in the Gallery and that which is currently in process, WE have been the ones who have not allowed the flame to be extinguished.

If we never see a frame of "new" TOS-based Galactica footage, I can rest easily and feel blessed that over the last 9 years, folks have taken me into their hearts as I have done with them and it all started with a mutual love for sci-fi, in general, and Galactica, in particular.

A 2-hour film could NEVER eclipse that.

Thank you, my friends!

:salute:

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Well said...

[martok2112]

Regardless of what happens in faraway places, we should take comfort in the fact that WE have been the Continuation, here and elsewhere. When you read the stories in the Library, when you look at the artwork in the Gallery and that which is currently in process, WE have been the ones who have not allowed the flame to be extinguished.

If we never see a frame of "new" TOS-based Galactica footage, I can rest easily and feel blessed that over the last 9 years, folks have taken me into their hearts as I have done with them and it all started with a mutual love for sci-fi, in general, and Galactica, in particular.

A 2-hour film could NEVER eclipse that.

Thank you, my friends!

:salute:


Sniff.....sob...

Thet wuz byooteeful, comrade! Breengs tear to eye!

:)

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Good words BST.

Out of curiosity, -- anyone know if Tom has ANY viable angles into doing something?


Russell

[Apolloisall]

When you read the stories in the Library, when you look at the artwork in the Gallery and that which is currently in process, WE have been the ones who have not allowed the flame to be extinguished.



HEAR HEAR! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::salute:

[jjrakman]

No.

Languatron's real name is Andrew Fullen.

:rolleyes: He's so famous that he even has his own page on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=andrew+fullen&sprefix=andrew+fullen

He's nuts! Plain, unsalted, non-roasted nuts!

;)

He also has his own blog now. And he's watching...

http://languatron1.blogspot.com/2011/12/one-lone-voice-of-reason-causes-thread.html

[Apolloisall]

Uhhh, I thought Senmut killed this conversation... why is it still going on?

:LOL:

[BST]

He also has his own blog now. And he's watching...

http://languatron1.blogspot.com/2011/12/one-lone-voice-of-reason-causes-thread.html

Kinda gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling, eh?

:rotf:

[137th Gebirg]

Wow, Senmut!! You just got your 15 minutes of fame on Langy's blog. Do you feel special yet? :D

And Russ! Shame on you for being a sock puppet for the Vast Universal Conspiracy! SHOCKING! SHOCKING, I SAY!! :duck:

I'm now waiting for Languatron to discover my own PERSONAL MASONIC CONSPIRACY to MERGE TOS BSG, NuBSG and STAR TREK into one huge FANWANK CROSSOVER!

Hey Languatron!
http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx320/gebirg137/Miscellaneous/smiliewatchingyou.gif
http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx320/gebirg137/Miscellaneous/allseeingeye.jpg http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx320/gebirg137/Miscellaneous/horns-george_bush.jpg http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx320/gebirg137/Miscellaneous/Freemasonry.gif

[TwoBrainedCylon]

They say that the only constant in life is change -- but I'd submit that its change and Andrew Fullen.

What a sorry bastard.

However, he does occasionally note some good points and the question he cites was one that I've been kicking around in my head since it was first asked. I started to post an answer twice but didn't like any of my responses. Perhaps the 3rd time will be the charm.

What makes Universal and company shy away from the core of Battlestar Galactica?

Its a hard question because its diffictult to get four of its fans to agree on the substance. I'd submit its the ancient astronaut themes, the basic Exodus story, and a never-ending war against alien machines. The trappings are the space fighters and "warrior" society. All of this is wrapped around what I would call a politically Conservative framework.

Conservative themes aren't honored in Hollywood anymore. The Exodus storyline brings along some religiously Conservative ideas that I think twist the jaws of some of the Hollywood crowd. Think of the basic theme of "War of the Gods" and imagine pitching that script to the anti-Christian crowd that runs much of the media these days.

The ancient astronaut themes don't have the charm they once did. A space society looking for Earth was wonderful in the 70s but its a one-trick pony that has already died. Both now have the tone of "Been there, done that". In 1978, all of this was new. Since then, there's been tons of movies and television series that have exploited the same ideas.

We've also seen a lot of space battles and cool special effects since 1978.

So, the strength is in the characters and when you look at them, the characters are the anti-thesis of what's popular in Hollywood these days. They're good and fine people, -- all mutually supportive of each other, and all following good morality and a strong code of honor.

I would personally love to see this set of characters developed further but I doubt few in Hollywood could do it, -- although I could see it happening. The characters in Jericho were a great example of how to portray honorable people in difficult circumstances. Sarah Conner had folks of a darker edge but still compelling. My wife has gotten me to watch some Storybook series which also has characters of the same genre, -- and has them done well, but it seems all too rare that characters are developed as I've seen in these shows, -- Firefly notwishtanding.

Unfortunately, I think that the folks who could do the characters justice aren't interested in reviving an old 1970s series and the folks who are interested in the series only want to exploit its name and turn it into something it was never meant to be.

So, I don't think anyone is scared of the property, -- I just think its a big gulf between marrying up the people who could do it right with the folks who could make it happen.

This is made worse in that too many who look back at Galactica see silver metal cowboy hats, kids riding unicorns, and 70s camp comedy elements rather than the base tale that made the series special.

I've also come to think that those who say you could never tell the Galactica story in a 2-hour movie are probably right, -- at least not the way its been presented before.

OK, I admit, the 3rd time wasn't the charm but perhaps someone else can answer the question better.

(I wonder if I could take all of Lang's writings labeling me as a stealth marketer and send a bill to Universal for unpaid salary).

All my best,


Russell

[Lara]

He also has his own blog now. And he's watching...

http://languatron1.blogspot.com/2011/12/one-lone-voice-of-reason-causes-thread.html

Ta, JJ

Blogs are technology made for individuals like Langy. His audience can find him all concentrated in one dose.. :D

Cheers,
Lara
(a feckless fleets follower??)

[Punisher454]

You hit it right on the head, the original story is just plain too conservative for Hollywood.
As for the characters, I will have to partially agree with many critics of the original show that they are a little one dimensional, but thats more due to a simpler time in tv writing. Jericho's characters are a perfect example of how I think you could write BSG's characters giving them more depth and believability. The Sarah Connor Chronicles characters also appealed to me in a similar way.
Is it any co-incidence that Jericho, TSCC and Firefly all had characters and themes that were fairly conservative and the studios just couldnt cancel them quick enough once they realized what the core themes were? While at the same time left leaning Star Trek TNG,DS9,and Voyager just seemed to go on, and on and on... Enterprise was slightly more conservative and hence had a shorter run.

Liberal writers just dont get conservative characters. I think they like to start piling on the flaws and mental problems untill they start to match something more like themselvs in attempt for believability. What they fail to realize is that in real life there are plenty of good brave people that are not riddled with character flaws that will go all they way to the end staring death right in the face and not flinch. Those writers dont understand these people and are probably intimidated by them, which is probably why you see characters like that portrayed as complete heartless A-holes or nutjobs.

[Gemini1999]

*Sigh*

I'm starting to hate this thread...

[TwoBrainedCylon]

The underlying theme of Jericho was overwhlemingly Liberal.

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Recall that Jericho was about the vast right wing conspiracy breaking out of control. The George Bush cronie-stand ins started a limited nuclear war to seize total power and overthrow the United States. The premise was hard-line anti-Conservative. Ironically, its just when they revealed this plot that the ratings tanked. Some of the key actors quit when they read the scripts as well so even for Hollywood it was a bit overboard.

I cite Jericho because the characterization in the series was perhaps the very best I've ever seen. It was a marvelously crafted series if you looked at it strictly on the basis of the relationships. It also showed how honorable people should be expected to behave in a crisis.

Firefly is probably a better match for a newer Galactica production as the theme and tone are much closer to what I think would be needed to work the story. Overall, it was a much more fun series but because of that, the characters were a bit more shallow, although not to the one-dimensional Star Trek standards.

As you noted, the original Galactica was a product of its time. Compared to the other series on the air, it was pretty hard-core. Recall, this was an age of Mork and Mindy. Space adventures were still being represented by Lost in Space, the original Trek, and Space 1999. They were entertaining shows but each had as many downright childish storylines as good ones. Given this era, I still think Galactia was about as hardcore as you might expect. That's why I'd expect an update to be fairly intense, although my expectations have always been off.

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

*Sigh*

I'm starting to hate this thread...

;) Yeah, I'm reminded of a quote from the movie Help, "Stop dragging things down to your own level son, it's immature.":rotf::rotf:

Seriously though, I don't think politics really enters in to the whole thing as neatly as all that. And I never saw Galactica as "Conservative" anyway. I always saw it as simply a show about people in ridiculously tough times surviving. Though I will agree that all the whiny, flawed character stuff is WAAAY overboard these days, ESPECIALLY in GINO (to name one).

BTW, does anyone here remember Kirk in A Private Little War? Let's drop the whole notion of political polarization from good or interesting storytelling, shall we?:salute:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Really???

I'd consider the original Galactica to be strongly Conservative. Its underlying themes were "Peace through Strength", trust in God because he cares for you and will ultimately look after you, and the best solution to dealing with an adversary is to blast them out of existence. The society was one that was very structured and resisted change. Also, it was framed by the Exodus storyline.

It fit within the social context of the time.

Your Private Little War reference is a good example. Recall that Trek struggled in its ratings and was always being hounded by the network. For its time it was fairly Liberal (overall) and met with a lot of resistance because of that. "Private Little War" (which is an outstanding episode BTW) was a Viet Nam protest story.

Trek only really came into its own when the social context changed. It had the benefit of existing in a time when studios networks would throw money at films and series that might have promise and let them develop. Now, media has to perform almost from the first instant or its toast. The criteria is very different.

I know many don't like the political observations but I believe they have a far stronger influence than most seem to recognize. Recall that GINO got Bonnie's attention primarily because Ron said he was going to have a female president (like Hillary). It was the Liberal aspects that opened the door and the badly masked anti-Bush elements that garnered its praise. Everyone has their own opinions as to how it all played out but for GINO, it was the political aspects that the network saw as the "interesting storytelling".

When answering the question, why do the networks and studio seem to avoid the original Galactica format, my view is that the political and social aspects have a strong influence, although not as strong as the audience projections. Naturally, any series will have elements of a myriad of viewpoints and beliefs but I think the overwhleming theme has a big impact on what is funded and what is supported.

Its my belief that Hollywood currently strongly supports Liberal concepts. Its also my belief that this is the reverse of the situation that existed in the 1970s.

I still welcome other folk's opinions as to why the studio and networks shy from the original series format.

I suspect its related to the same reason that the Sci-Fi Channel renamed itself and no longer wants to show science fiction.

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

Really???

I'd consider the original Galactica to be strongly Conservative. Its underlying themes were "Peace through Strength",
In Junior High I was bullied quite a bit (being a Trek geek as I was), so I saw Enter The Dragon, took martial arts lessons & beat the felgercarb out of my tormentors a few times, then went through my remaining public school years very peacefully. That's not "Conservative", that's real life. trust in God because he cares for you and will ultimately look after you,Nah, the people did what they did to survive with no real Godly help, save for the Ship of Lights restricting what a crazy alien was trying to do to the fleet. That's just SF IMO. and the best solution to dealing with an adversary is to blast them out of existence. When dealing with machines, there is little more you can do. The society was one that was very structured and resisted change. And THAT seems true of all societies to me.
Look, some enemies you can make into friends, some enemies you have to make into hamburger; this whole notion of THIS way or THAT way is completely antithetical to how real life works. Bruce Lee would agree with me.:D

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Apolloisall,

All true but (at least in the USA) when you use the phrase "Conservative" and "Liberal" they have certain defined aspects to them. These remain regardless of what flavor you personally prefer and are sometimes linked to Presidents.

Peace through Strength is considered Conservative (IMO) as it was a keypoint of Reagan. Liberals fought hard against the military buildup and arms race, claiming it was going to lead to everyone's destruction. That was the original slant in GINO (we caused our own downfall/We're responsible for bringing the War on Terror upon ourselves) until Ron either changed it or simply lost his way. In the original, it was the lack of military strength that caused the Colonies to be wiped out.

To me, the "Trust in God" elements were obvious from Adama's speech where he declared "Let the Word Go Forth". It amplified in Lost Planet of the Gods. In the original, God wasn't manipulating everything but he cared for those who showed faith in him. He also bound the supernatural beings to certain codes that duplicated the Bible. GINO was all over the map but the overarching aspects were that God was manipulative, cruel, and didn't want man to progress to the point of making "thinking machines". At best, you could associate this with the Tower of Babel storyline but the rest seemed to parallel a New Age/anti-Christian theme. Ron's comments in his podcasts concurred with this. Typically, anti-Christian themes spring from Liberal circles and pro-Christian themes from Conservative ones.

Further, its not a given that you just blast machines. Hollywood has usually done the opposite since its political landscape shifted. Recall the Borg became a misunderstood menace that should be pittied rather than killed outright. Even the Terminators, who couldn't be reasoned with or negotiated with, became conversationalists. GINO's Cylons were lost children who just wanted to be loved. In the end, they teamed up with the humans against a single evil leader who manipulated the rest. Recall, he entered the scene as a priest. (No small hints there). Winning over the hearts and minds of the enemy has long been the mindset I've seen pushed by Hollywood, regardless of the Franchise. I can't recall any Sci]i-Fi enemy that gets repeated screen time that doesn't eventually become at least the moral equal of the main characters.

Lastly, all societies embrace change but the structure of the original was very stiff. It was a class system in which "warriors" were the elite. Everyone had their defined structure and there was no emphasis that any of it should or would change, even after the destruction of everything. This doesn't have any influence as to whether or not a project would be funded so its a sidebar topic but its one of the reasons I see the original as embracing a Conservative premise -- at least in the manner the term is generally described.

EDIT: FWIW - you just scored big points with me as a fellow Bruce Lee fan!

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

In the original, it was the lack of military strength that caused the Colonies to be wiped out.


Whoah there, what?:wtf:
It was a weary wussy President & an evil self-serving count that did that- the military might of the Fleet was able to defend the Colonies, clearly.
For a thousand years, err, yahrens... whatever.:D

[peter noble]

Ta, JJ

Blogs are technology made for individuals like Langy. His audience can find him all concentrated in one dose.. :D

Cheers,
Lara
(a feckless fleets follower??)

Langy's such a fan of the show that he didn't even buy the DVD set!

The guy's a complete loon and still owes RGrant $50!

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Whoah there, what?:wtf:
It was a weary wussy President & an evil self-serving count that did that- the military might of the Fleet was able to defend the Colonies, clearly.
For a thousand years, err, yahrens... whatever.:D

On second thought, its likely not the best example. I based my perspective in part on Apollo's speech in "Experiment in Terra". Since the original was a replay of the Pearl Harbor attack and referenced the US treaty negotiations with Japan at the same time they were enacting a sneak-attack, its probably unfair to link that to anything other than a historic reference.

All my best,


Russell

[Punisher454]

Russell,
I totally agree with everything you just wrote, except for Jericho. I always got a feeling of a right leaning ideology in that show. But I guess I was looking at it from the viewpoint of the towns people rather than examining the premise of the initial destruction. Jericho had to fend for themselves to survive rather than depend on the government.
Although now that I think about there was the whole corrupt/greedy corporation theme which tends to be a liberal battle cry. As well as the idea that terrorists get falsely blamed for things that "The Man" was really behind. So perhaps Jericho was a poor choice of an example of a conservative themed show, but I still hold with what I said about the portrayal of the main characters. Self reliance and peace through strength were painted in a positive light.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Punisher,

For Jericho, I thought the characters themselves were politically neutral. In many ways, that was the beauty of them. Except for the main character's occasional rants about "the horrors of Iraq", the rest pretty well followed strong with the story. As noted, I thought they were extremely well written. It was a real shame the rest of the premise was such a pile of trash and dumped with such a heavy-handed political overtone.

As for how they compare to the original Galactica series, ... one can only guess. The original series had fairly shallow characters due to the format. Dirk shared some of Starbuck under Tom DeSanto's vision and it sounded pretty good to me. Starbuck was an aging man who regretted the earlier whiscial way he handled most things and the casual way he treated Cassie. She married someone else and he was now lonely for the life he never had.

Richard told me that he found part of the Apollo of Borg concept interesting because the character had a lot of running room to develop. The initial introduction was going to be a strong jolt to everyone but he liked the idea of being a leader who wasn't fully trusted anymore. Starbuck and Apollo's friendship were strained because Apollo was now effectively the equal of a recovering vampire. He saw the first year of the continuation series as one in which the audience wasn't sure if he was a hero or strong danger. He thought it was a good setup for a strong redemption scenario.

Again, I wish Tom would release the rest of the material as to what they planned. I've gotten more enjoyment and come closer to the real Galactica from Tom's concept ideas than any other development since 1979.

All my best,


Russell

[BST]

As I recall, Adama felt that the downfall of the Colonies was hastened by their embrace of "largesse" and complacency. He gave an example of that while speaking with Apollo, I think, when he mentioned that (Sire) Uri was "one of the best" but, to look at him now, one wouldn't think that.

I agree with the remark about the "class" structure of Colonial society. It reminded me, a bit, of the Roman Empire. Everything swirled around the military. Everyone else was second-tier, at best.

[Titon]

Richard told me that he found part of the Apollo of Borg concept interesting because the character had a lot of running room to develop. The initial introduction was going to be a strong jolt to everyone but he liked the idea of being a leader who wasn't fully trusted anymore. Starbuck and Apollo's friendship were strained because Apollo was now effectively the equal of a recovering vampire. He saw the first year of the continuation series as one in which the audience wasn't sure if he was a hero or strong danger. He thought it was a good setup for a strong redemption scenario.

Interesting. From what i heard in the background Richard was less than cheery about this premis. In fact in some regards talking with Tom himself Richard through a lot of monkey wrenches there way and would not committ to the character if Apollo was not commander of the fleet. It would be interesting to find out who was actually telling the truth about this scenario.

It still amazes me that hollywood cannot wrap it's mind around the TOS concept of Galactica. Although i agree that the original version was highly conservative. Family oriented tv is hard to find anywhere today. In essance i find myself going back to watch the past instead of looking into the future. The only show that has caught my attention is Terra Nova which is supposedly on the fence at the moment. The parallels of pretty astounding if you think of it. Extremely expensive to produce but has pretty good ratings. Although it is on FOX and they kill off original programming like there is no tomorrow.

Like i have stated before Galactica should be left alone. Quite frankly it has been alive for years in the folks i've been lucky enough to meet and greet....:)

[Apolloisall]

i agree that the original version was highly conservative.

There's that word again... it confounds me. My Liberal friends say I go too Conservative, my Conservative friends say I'm a Liberal- :P:

How about this view- the oppressive Colonial Regime, with its rigid social values & unbreakable & unquestionable military-based chain of command led to the destruction of the Colonies, and, in the pilot, only Apollo & Starbuck's stepping outside of that chain with Purple & Orange Squadrons saved what was left; therefore TOS Galactica was a cautionary tale of the dangers of the inevitable downfall of us all due to Conservative control of not only society, but it's inconclusively initiated military response (and lack of viable alternative solutions) to perceived and/or misjudged real and/or unreal aggression.:cool:

What a Lefty show that actually was.... I'm gonna burn my costume, my lasers, my Galactica, all my Vipers, my Joyride Cylon & Viper, my landing bay diorama, my Raider, my Son's Basestar, all my Galactica comics, books & photo novels.... :rotf:

[peter noble]

I think the general consensus has always been that the show was 'conservative'.

The only way the Cylons got the upper hand is though the human factor, which was Baltar's treachery.

Sure the Colonials were tired of fighting the war but every indication was that they could have gone on except Baltar's political and military influence got them to drop their guard and the Cylons were able to get through to the homeworld defences because Baltar's operatives had infiltrated them and taken them down (Murder on the Rising Star).

[BST]

There's that word again... it confounds me. My Liberal friends say I go too Conservative, my Conservative friends say I'm a Liberal- :P:




They're both F.O.S.

You're a moderate. :P:

[Apolloisall]

They're both F.O.S.

You're a moderate. :P:
THANK YOU!!!:salute:


And honestly, back on topic, I think this (Galactica TOS) is too complex to do again. GINO was all over the place with "Conservative" snipes, "Liberal" snipes- it was an equal opportunity offender, as well as becoming a "shock-reveal-of-the-week" show. And as such it was something I cannot and would not share with my Son or Wife. It was trying so hard to "blow us away" that it left the characters in an amorphous limbo to be plucked out & used as the story saw fit. And that's the rule of thumb today. Solid, unflinching characterization is a thing of the past, and probably why Serenity has no sequel. If the moral compass doesn't spin like a top, short attention spans from today's multitasking, endlessly online texting site-jumpers get bored.

Face it; we are relics. We want stories with characters. Just look at Iron Man 2. Tony Stark is a totally good guy by now, but they still have to get him drunk and "edgy" to make the movie work (I admit to liking it anyway though).
I'm so sick of "edgy."

I blame Anakin....:cool:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

In my experience, nobody who claims they're a moderate actually is.

I've long labeled myself a far-right Conservative but I've run into too many folks who are so far right that they turn my stomach so I recognize there's a lot of distance between me and the edge of the map. Plus, I'm too sympathetic on issues like civil unions and the like to truly qualify under the most common definitions.

Perhaps I'm simply confused.

I recognize GINO as an example of how they tried to do Galactica but I wouldn't hold it as a symbol of how it should be done. I read Ron's "Bible" a while back and liked the plan. I like the concepts they went after. The actual execution was so poor in my opinion that it invalidated all the rest.

Truthfully, Richard didn't really get it right either. If you've read his books, they're a far cry from the essence of what I think Galactica should be.

Now Singer is no longer a good consideration for me either.

I'm edging towards Don's viewpoint. Maybe it is best that the attempts keep crashing. Ron's treatment was bad enough. I'd hate to be in a place where I regarded GINO as the good attempt at reviving the franchise.

We are relics!

For Don specifically, ... from our conversation, Richard was clear that at first, he didn't warmly embrace the Apollo role that Tom and Singer had planned for him. He felt they were trying to shuffle him out of the way because people viewed him as a problem. He was probably right. After he realized that he wasn't about to be offered a central role in the start of the new series, he understood that they were at least giving him a path to get back into the game. He then saw the role more favorably. At least that's how he explained it to me.

All my best,

Russell

[Apolloisall]

In my experience, nobody who claims they're a moderate actually is.


I KILL you for that!!!
http://www.canvas-art-direct.co.uk/ekmps/shops/popcanvasart/images/bruce-lee-pop-art-canvas-007--275-p.jpg

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Now Bruce would give a disapproving scowl at such use of his image ...

TOTALLY off-topic -- but I very highly recommend "Zen In The Martial Arts" by Joe Hymans. It describes Bruce Lee's philosophies of life. It has helped me develop many of the better aspects of my personality.

In fact, if you give me your address, I'd like to send you a copy as a gift, as one fellow Bruce Lee fan to another. Its truly a life-changing read along the lines of "The Art of War" and "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People".

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

TOTALLY off-topic -- but I very highly recommend "Zen In The Martial Arts" by Joe Hyams. It describes Bruce Lee's philosophies of life. It has helped me develop many of the better aspects of my personality.


LOL, I have it!:thumbsup:
In the words of Ramirez, "We are BROTHERS!"

Favourite technical martial arts book I'd recommend is
http://www.amazon.com/Yuen-Kay-San-Wing-Chun-Practice/dp/1892515032

[Lara]

Langy's such a fan of the show that he didn't even buy the DVD set!

The guy's a complete loon and still owes RGrant $50!

Collectively we remember all.. a right living archive of BG fandom doings
Mind you, with interest rates so low, its the best time for Langy to make good and pay up the $50 :LOL:


and if anyone think that is likely, step this way, I've got a nice little patch of prime Sydney waterfront with a large metal structure on it I will let you invest in for a very modest amount.. ;);)

Cheers,
Lara

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Lang thrives on the attention. He sincerely does have serious issues that require the services of a mental health professional (and that's not a joke but the real situation). One aspect of his mania is that he feels he is the absolute center piece of all that occurs in the world. He really does think that Universal execs, Ron Moore, Bryan Singer, and everyone here is sitting up nights worrying about what he's going to write next. He truly doesn't get what a cosmic joke he's become in everyone's eyes, -- or maybe on some level he does and maybe that's where most of the anger comes from.

Sadly, I've come to realize that his rantings aren't just a wild presentation but are indeed the freakish thoughts in his head. He's a hateful, miserable little man who acts like a child refusing to take his medicine. He fiercely fights everything and anything that might put him on a better track. One would think that when he hit the ten year mark of wasting his life "fighting the Universal Conspiracy" he'd look in the mirror and realize he's been doing nothing but splashing around in a smelly swamp for no good reason. Unfortunately, he's well beyond that and I really doubt he'll ever come back to reality enough to recognize that all the villains he's tried to confront are mere fabrications spawned from his own mind.

Having exchanged some unpleasant communications with him, its also apparent that he has no idea what he wants to accomplish. All he knows how to do is dump 100% hatred in every direction. In 11 years, I don't think I've ever read a single positive statement from him. He could save a ton of typing if he just wrote "I hate everything and everyone" and left it at that.

Ironically, if he had opted to do a proper chronicle, given the time and effort he's spent, he could have authored one of the better archive books related to Galactica. He must have some pretty meticulous notes because he recalls the most obscure details and he is very thorough. If he ventured forth with the mindset of a historian rather than a maniac, he could probably really make his mark on the Galactica landscape.

Of course, that would require the efforts of someone who was sane and I think Mr. Andrew Fullen is a good distance away from that definition.

I sincerely pity the man, although at times its hard to have any constructive thoughts towards him. Someday, I'd like to hear that he got his life together and things were going well for him -- sincerely well not the lies he dumps all over the place, -- but after 11 years of the same broken record repeating again and again and again, I really doubt that's going to happen.

A sad situation all around.

All my best,


Russell

[TwoBrainedCylon]

LOL, I have it!:thumbsup:
In the words of Ramirez, "We are BROTHERS!"

Favourite technical martial arts book I'd recommend is
http://www.amazon.com/Yuen-Kay-San-Wing-Chun-Practice/dp/1892515032

Yep, we are brothers, -- except I really try not to fight these days as it takes a lot longer to heal than it used to.

Looks like a good book. Thanks for the recommendation.

All my best,


Russell

[137th Gebirg]

Lang thrives on the attention. He sincerely does have serious issues that require the services of a mental health professional (and that's not a joke but the real situation). One aspect of his mania is that he feels he is the absolute center piece of all that occurs in the world. He really does think that Universal execs, Ron Moore, Bryan Singer, and everyone here is sitting up nights worrying about what he's going to write next. He truly doesn't get what a cosmic joke he's become in everyone's eyes, -- or maybe on some level he does and maybe that's where most of the anger comes from.

Does anyone actually buy those online books of his? He seems to have quite a few of his "treatises" out there.

And it has occurred to me that if we constantly refer to him as we have recently, he may erroneously think that his ideas and theories are being tacitly validated by the members here.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I think he sells a couple on automatic orders from distributors. They almost immediately pop back up on the used sell list. It can't be much because as soon as negative responses are posted on Amazon, he answers that the person writing the critique hasn't purchased the book. The only way he would know that would be if the book sold less copies than the critiques he gets on the site.

Over the many years that's he wasted, I doubt he's sold more than 20 copies of all of his writings combined. I'm confident that none of these self-published books can be defined as profitable. Even with his recycling material, I'd guess that from a business standpoint, his salary for writing and producing them comes out to something like $0.03 an hour. That might be a bit optimistic.

All my best,


Russell

[Senmut]

There's that word again... it confounds me. My Liberal friends say I go too Conservative, my Conservative friends say I'm a Liberal- :P:

How about this view- the oppressive Colonial Regime, with its rigid social values & unbreakable & unquestionable military-based chain of command led to the destruction of the Colonies, and, in the pilot, only Apollo & Starbuck's stepping outside of that chain with Purple & Orange Squadrons saved what was left; therefore TOS Galactica was a cautionary tale of the dangers of the inevitable downfall of us all due to Conservative control of not only society, but it's inconclusively initiated military response (and lack of viable alternative solutions) to perceived and/or misjudged real and/or unreal aggression.:cool:

What a Lefty show that actually was.... I'm gonna burn my costume, my lasers, my Galactica, all my Vipers, my Joyride Cylon & Viper, my landing bay diorama, my Raider, my Son's Basestar, all my Galactica comics, books & photo novels.... :rotf:

Hey, don't forget the gold coins/cubits. OBVIOUSLY, a gold-standard economy, based on capitalistic greed, with the warmongering military-industrial complex makes sure the rich get richer, and the poor get pooer!
NOT!

[Senmut]

Nah, the people did what they did to survive with no real Godly help, save for the Ship of Lights restricting what a crazy alien was trying to do to the fleet.



Well, there is Adama's unshakeable belief in The Book Of The Word, which led them to Kobol, and escape from the Cylons. Also his and Apollo's spiritual sensitivities that made it easier for them to see through Iblis, and grasp who he was, before anyone else.
I would call that Godly help.

[137th Gebirg]

I would classify TOS as definitely more right-of-center. Post-holocaust, the Colonials were heavily militarized, under constant martial law/police state, and the Council of 12 were a band of childish lemming-like buffoons who blindly embraced their enemies in desperate bids for feel-good peace at the expense of their constituents and generally couldn't agree on the color of $h!te.

Hmmm...

Kind of prescient, if you look at what's going on now in our world...

[Apolloisall]

I would classify TOS as definitely more right-of-center. Post-holocaust, the Colonials were heavily militarized, under constant martial law/police state,

The overall structure maybe, but like Airwolf (another Bellisario related series), the meat of the episodes is really pretty centerist IMO.
But then, MY "centerist" can be someone else's loony Left, or radical Right.:D:rolleyes:

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Very true, it's all a matter of perspective. But in TOS, there is the very heavy reference to scripture, which has generally been deep within the purview of conservatism, plus reference that Apollo made in one episode to an "Armaments Day", like it was some kind of celebration of Colonial military power - also a very conservative idea with a hawkish bent.

Granted, in these cases, we should transcend projections of our own society upon another society where life-spans are in the hundreds of years, who has been in a constant state of war for over 1000 years. Numbers like that are difficult for Earth humans to fathom and, as such, perceptions of political leanings shouldn't apply in-universe. To a Universal bean-counter, however, I suspect most of them are incapable of making such distinctions. Ergo, yes, a faithful continuation or retelling of TOS would definitely not track with today's "sensibilities".

[Senmut]

Yes. We must constantly remember that the Colonies are NOT our own culture.

[Gemini1999]

Folks -

Just a polite reminder to keep the discussion on topic. If you wish to continue the side discussions recently posted, I can move them to a thread of their own.

Regards,

Gemini1999
Colonial Fleets Moderator

[TwoBrainedCylon]

So as not to derail things much further, I've written my 2011 response to Mr. Andrew Fullen. Its located in the Cafe section of Fleets at http://colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?p=308397#post308397 .

As he scowers Fleets constantly for updates on what a few of us write, he's sure to get the message soon.

Now back to the regularly scheduled discussion.

All my best,


Russell

[137th Gebirg]

Well written, Russell. :salute:

Although I think your summation paragraphs toward the end speak the loudest singular truth - that the rest of your essay won't make a damn bit of difference to his perception of reality. More's the pity. You tried...

I still baffle at the thought that he thinks you're an RDM "stealth marketing" advocate somehow. Seriously??? He clearly hasn't been paying attention.

[Apolloisall]

Reasons why we will not see a proper Galactica series anytime soon (from a TV producer mentality):

1- Its concept is inherently a downer. Big defeat from the get go. Right there new viewers will be turned off. No quick turn around to victory by the end of the pilot. (Maybe we can just make it a continuing war, not a crushing defeat that sets the tone)

2- Just been done. And ratings were not that great after the initial season. The BSG potential viewer well is rather dry right now.

3- The main characters are too good. We need angst. (We could do it like a Twilight in space...)

4- We just got out of Iraq; viewers are tired of military stuff now. (Let's lose the military angle & make it all research vessels with young hot scientists...)

5- The Egyptian thing is not in style. Egypt is middle east, and middle east is not good. (We could make it a Mayan motif instead!)

6- The world socio-economic structure is changing dramatically. Protests are breaking out in many places. A series about fighting for your way of life & what you believe MAY not be the best thing to put on in these times.

Yeah, forget this. Where was that other project we were considering? Oh, here it is- DALLAS 2012!! Yeah. And no expensive FX....

:rotf:

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Twilight in Space... Oy vay! :D

I like the Mayan angle, though. With 2012 around the corner, there could be a reasonable tie-in to market on the mass-psychological hysteria with ancient prophecies. You really couldn't escape the Ancient Astronaut hook, though, as that is the core premise for the BSG universe with "Life Here Began Out There".

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I don't think the ancient Egyptians will ever go out of style. The Mayans link to the original premise but they don't have the WOW-factor of ancient Egypt.

Not sure I agree with the dark premise being a limitation for today's media.

Also not sure I agree that things need a quick resolution. Seems to me that the media has turned in exactly the reverse direction, with stories being drug out for weeks (in television) and across a few movies in films.

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

I don't think the ancient Egyptians will ever go out of style. The Mayans link to the original premise but they don't have the WOW-factor of ancient Egypt.



I agree, I was just taking a semi-farcical jab at the suits there.

Remember Trials & Tribble-ations? Imagine if some production team could slavishly reproduce Galactica like that?
I'd be in Heaven!:cool:

It would be so retro-cool, it would garner SUCH interest!!!

...it is a dream I have....

[Punisher454]

^^^ Twilight in Space... Oy vay! :D


Maybe a Buck Rogers remake would go over better right now, but replace Twiki with a new sparkly "Vorvon" character overburdened with teen angst.
To help balance the cast we could also resurrect Jerry Orbach with CGI as a more hip Lars Mangros with a Lenny Brisco type wisecrack to end every scene.

Well okay, maybe not.

[martok2112]

Reasons why we will not see a proper Galactica series anytime soon (from a TV producer mentality):

1- Its concept is inherently a downer. Big defeat from the get go. Right there new viewers will be turned off. No quick turn around to victory by the end of the pilot. (Maybe we can just make it a continuing war, not a crushing defeat that sets the tone)
Disagree. Independence Day's first battle was a major defeat for Earth. Turned around with some seemingly absurd notion of a laptop being able to implant a virus into a the attackers' mothership, and the Earth won. Ended up being a blockbuster.

Star Wars and The Empire Stikes Back both ended up starting with downer notes. (Rebels slaughtered/ defeated, and Princess Leia captured. Luke attacked by wampa, and the rebellion routed from Hoth with MAJOR casualties. Also, TESB ended on a downer. Han Solo captured and on the way to Jabba the Hutt. Both of them ended up blockbusters.


2- Just been done. And ratings were not that great after the initial season. The BSG potential viewer well is rather dry right now.

Disagree. There is plenty of potential for Galactica viewership on either side of the fence...whether it's Larson's version, or Moore's version. It just needs to be done in a way that can appeal to both.


3- The main characters are too good. We need angst. (We could do it like a Twilight in space...)
Partially agree. Characters need to be less than perfect, but not overly dysfunctional. In other words, human. TWILIGHT?! Twilight you say?! To the gallows with 'im! :D


4- We just got out of Iraq; viewers are tired of military stuff now. (Let's lose the military angle & make it all research vessels with young hot scientists...)

So.....Lost in Space.



5- The Egyptian thing is not in style. Egypt is middle east, and middle east is not good. (We could make it a Mayan motif instead!)
How about Hobbitian? Then we could make it Middle Earth instead. :D


6- The world socio-economic structure is changing dramatically. Protests are breaking out in many places. A series about fighting for your way of life & what you believe MAY not be the best thing to put on in these times.

Problem with this world is the world has become a bunch of wussies. Jump at the slightest touch over the latest wounds. I remember when our world used to be a little tougher.
M*A*S*H* was actually an allegory about the VietNam conflict, but was made to take place during the Korean War. The execs thought as you did...but folk are smarter than that. Sure it was comedy, but it was also heartwrenching drama.


Yeah, forget this. Where was that other project we were considering? Oh, here it is- DALLAS 2012!! Yeah. And no expensive FX....:rotf:

What?! Why have we not taken 'im to the gallows yet?! :D

[Apolloisall]

What?! Why have we not taken 'im to the gallows yet?! :D
http://www.movieprop.com/tvandmovie/Battlestar/baltar.jpg
http://www.feledy.org/images/baltar.jpg

[martok2112]

http://www.movieprop.com/tvandmovie/Battlestar/baltar.jpg
http://www.feledy.org/images/baltar.jpg

FINE! Take the Imperious Leader to the gallows!! :D

[Apolloisall]

MU HU HU H HA HA HA!!!!:duck:

[BST]

AHEM!

Yonder gallows -- :down:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD9WWq9A5DSLJhND25v4pI2dVnqGcncDihCVc9VXaTI0D75yiK

[Apolloisall]

AHEM!

Yonder gallows -- :down:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD9WWq9A5DSLJhND25v4pI2dVnqGcncDihCVc9VXaTI0D75yiK

I repent of all my sins.
http://www.movie-censorship.com/www/SBs/1999/38.jpg

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Steve,

The ratings projections are a significant factor. No matter what the reasons, no Galactica effort has produced the ratings needed to support the series at the level required to make it an ongoing effort. GINO plunged under its support levels in the middle of season 2. It should have been killed then. The original missed the mark 2/3rds of the way through the first year. G1980 hardly got out of the gate. Caprica never grabbed an audience either.

You can make excuses for the reasons why all day but the hard numbers don't support launching a major film effort. That doesn't mean it couldn't be done and become a huge hit but the numbers on the books suggest otherwise.

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

GINO plunged under its support levels in the middle of season 2. It should have been killed then.

Any ideas why it wasn't? I mean, I'm glad it lasted to an end, but I'm confused...:wtf:

[BST]

GINO continued because, quite honestly, there was nothing else in the Sci-Fi stables that could garner its level of ratings, however anemic.

[Apolloisall]

GINO continued because, quite honestly, there was nothing else in the Sci-Fi stables that could garner its level of ratings, however anemic.
That's not a good thing future-Galactica-wise...:(

[Senmut]

It's not a good thing for ANY good sci-fi, good sci-fi wise.

[martok2112]

Steve,

The ratings projections are a significant factor. No matter what the reasons, no Galactica effort has produced the ratings needed to support the series at the level required to make it an ongoing effort. GINO plunged under its support levels in the middle of season 2. It should have been killed then. The original missed the mark 2/3rds of the way through the first year. G1980 hardly got out of the gate. Caprica never grabbed an audience either.

You can make excuses for the reasons why all day but the hard numbers don't support launching a major film effort. That doesn't mean it couldn't be done and become a huge hit but the numbers on the books suggest otherwise.

All my best,


Russell

Understood.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

GINO continued because, quite honestly, there was nothing else in the Sci-Fi stables that could garner its level of ratings, however anemic.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Stargate was hitting close to the ratings and there were pitches at Sci-Fi to give the GINO money to Stargate and let them run with it. Also, just about anything that was shown could garner similar figures. Recall that the cheap movies of the week and reruns of old films like "The Day After" were beating the GINO ratings.

GINO had the appeal that its format was such that Bonnie thought it could bring in the female viewers. We now know that some of the "fans" were hired to post on the various boards but at the time there were a lot of female posters praising GINO. Everything else was seen as a primarily guy-oriented show. Bonnie Hammer firmly thought that GINO was going to turn around and skyrocket in the ratings and pushed Ron and company to develop more soap opera storylines. (I know the claim from Ron was that they did their own thing but that conflicts with the other stuff I heard. I can't say I know Bonnie had the direct influence is a hard fact but it is my understanding of the situation at the time.)

Consequently, GINO was given more running room than its ratings deserved. For better or worse, its ratings are now a gauge for the potential audience of any follow-on series or films even though the format was targeting an entirely different audience than the one most likely to go see a "Battlestar Galactica" movie.

Suffice to say that whatever the reasons, pitching a Galactica film and saying there is a built in audience has got to be a hard sell these days.

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

Suffice to say that whatever the reasons, pitching a Galactica film and saying there is a built in audience has got to be a hard sell these days.


I agree.:/:

[BST]

GINO continued because, quite honestly, there was nothing else in the Sci-Fi stables that could garner its level of ratings, however anemic.



I'm not sure I agree with this. Stargate was hitting close to the ratings and there were pitches at Sci-Fi to give the GINO money to Stargate and let them run with it. Also, just about anything that was shown could garner similar figures. Recall that the cheap movies of the week and reruns of old films like "The Day After" were beating the GINO ratings.

All my best,


Russell

I think my point was missed. When I mentioned, "there was nothing else in the Sci-Fi stables...", the inference was that there was nothing that wasn't already on the air. No "mid-season replacements", etc. If they replaced it with something already on the air, there still would have been a time slot, somewhere, to fill.

The only other thought would be that Ron and Dave a "no-cancellation" clause in their contracts. But, I don't have much faith in the likelihood of that possibility.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Ah, -- I understand now.

Also as I type this, it seems to me that I recall Michael Hinman claiming sometime back that Ron and some of the key players had a 5-year contract when GINO went from pilot to series. If this was true then slamming the doors on GINO after S2 would still have cost the network some cash with no chance of regaining the lost money. That may have helped GINO float longer than the numbers said it should have.

It seems that Doug Dexler at least agrees with my take on on the studio and network mindset. In a recent interview on Trekweb, he's talking about Blood and Chrome going to a series. I find it interesting in regards to the larger debate on a feature film and the risk-averse mindset.

Doug Says:

In one very important way it was different from anything else I’ve ever worked on. The entire show was green screen. There were no sets. This happened because of the shape of the economy. Building sets for a television show like TNG or the last Battlestar Galactica is just prohibitively expensive. No one wants to take that chance. Besides, the way the networks have been doing business lately, it’s kind of bizarre. They’ll cancel a show after one episode. If a show doesn’t perform right out of the gate, they cancel it. In the day when you thought a show would be kept on the air for a year, you might take a chance because you think it will develop an audience over time. With the current network mindset, there’s no chance of building an audience, when after one or two episodes, it's canceled. It’s just impossible. So, they want make a show as inexpensively as possible, so if it’s canceled after one or two episodes, no one gets their head chopped off.

The rest of the interview is here: http://trekweb.com/articles/2011/12/17/Doug-Drexler-Gives-an-Update-on-Battlestar-Galactica-Blood-and-Chrome-TV-Series.shtml


All my best,

Russell

[Apolloisall]

No sets. No more. Blarg.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I'm not bothered by the "no sets" thing -- yet. I think the VFX team that worked on GINO through S2 onward was very talented. Its essentially the team doing "Blood and Chrome".

I did get curious on the ratings data. Things weren't quite as clear as I'd thought but the earlier premise seems to hold up. You can interpret its meaning as you will but the data is what it is.

Seems that making a pitch for the original series should have been easier than I thought. Checking the GINO series sales figures on Amazon, at the time of this writing, GINO is ranking at 1,551 (lower is better). That places it far better than contemporary competitors such as Sarah Conner, which rates at 9,221. Its not as good as my beloved Firefly, which scores a super strong 896, but it is almost three times better than the original Battlestar Galactica series whose sales mark it at 3,975. To me, for the 1978 series to show that strongly is a good sign, although I am a bit dismayed to see that it scores worse than the 1979 Buck Rogers series which ranks at 3,509. It still beats Mork and Mindy whose ranking is 10,146, Welcome Back Kotter at 6,337, and Happy Days at 4,198. It doesn't beat Sandford and Son which ranks 2,016.

By comparison, the A-Team got a major film deal and even with the push of the film, it ranks at 4,615.

I wouldn't be holding my breath for a film version of Bossom Buddies. Even with Tom Hanks, it only ranks at 14,585.

Of course, using this same data, Bryan Singer is making a pretty good career choices as "The Munsters" ranks at 1,727. That places it just under the ranking for MASH which comes in at 1,795 (sorry Steve).

EDIT: Somehow, the GINO figures changed dramatically when I hit REFRESH. Sorry about the earlier bad post.

All my best,


Russell

[Apolloisall]

I hate the no sets thing. Even Lucas couldn't make it look *right* in the SW prequels. It's way more distracting than optical blue screen to me when live actors are involved.
I suddenly wish CGI was never developed...:errr:

[martok2112]

Of course, using this same data, Bryan Singer is making a pretty good career choices as "The Munsters" ranks at 1,727. That places it just under the ranking for MASH which comes in at 1,795 (sorry Steve).



All my best,


Russell

GAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! :yikes:

:D

[Benedict]

I hate the no sets thing. Even Lucas couldn't make it look *right* in the SW prequels. It's way more distracting than optical blue screen to me when live actors are involved.
I suddenly wish CGI was never developed...:errr:

Puts me in mind of the great Derek Meddings. Look at what he did with model-work.

Or films (non-Meddings) like Poseidon Adventure or some such that was able to do a decent effect without CGI and still be awesome.

[Apolloisall]

Puts me in mind of the great Derek Meddings. Look at what he did with model-work.


Yes indeed!
http://galeon.com/mattepainters/dmeddinsg.jpg

[Norsehound]

Thought I'd jump on CF to find out definitive news on the new Galactica movie. Guess it's not what I'm hoping for if the complaints are valid...

I feel to an extent that neither of the series really did the concept complete justice. I wanted a scifi romp in space with hallmarks of mythology guiding the plot. A sister civilization of man out there with greater and closer ties to our modern legends than on earth, obviously. A big struggle between the moral powers of good and evil and the unanswered questions about God and the supernatural paraded before a Science fiction setting but remaining ambiguous enough to remain a source of the unknown.

The original run was dated for it's time in the 1970s... really the only plots I thought salvageable were all of the two-parters. War of the Gods was specially prominent in my mind.

The new show missed this entirely and had different focuses altogether. It only paid lip service to religion and morality was always in the dark.

If the movie is going in the route of the new show (More realism, less wonder), I expect to be disappointed. I don't think I'll ever see the concept of Battlestar Galactica realized in the way I wanted it to be unless I go create something myself that fills that void.

Ah well.
:colonial:

[Apolloisall]

I don't think I'll ever see the concept of Battlestar Galactica realized in the way I wanted it to be unless I go create something myself that fills that void.


I feel your pain, no, seriously.:/:

[Senmut]

Agreed, ad infinitum. While I think some of the one-hour ones did fine, it's true a doubt that we'll ever see what we truly hope for.

[Apolloisall]

it's true a doubt that we'll ever see what we truly hope for.
But YOU help create what we hoped for... in written form. :salute:

[Senmut]

Many thanks. I have done what I hoped is justice to the concept, the show itself, the actors/actresses, and the fans. I only wish I could make it appear on film, to add to what the stars gave us, in place of...well.
Again, multum gratiam.

[peter noble]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/08/02/battlestar-galactica-movie-bryan-singer-update

[kingfish]

wow no info at all. on another front dallas has been renewed for another season. who says a continuation of a show does not work.

[peter noble]

wow no info at all.

Actually it does. It tell us that the writer has done his first draft of the screenplay and that is now being revised. It also tells us it's going to be some sort of mish-mash of BG and NBG.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

"I hope to do it at some point".

That says its a concept that really has no legs at the moment. Its a script idea and nothing more.

However, I am pleased he's trying an approach that he thinks will work within all that exists and not trash one version or the other. At this point, I'm favorable of something that would either try to bring it all together (alternate universes or whatever dramatic thing has to make that work) or will add one more version into the mix.

The latter may seem like a small development but in my opinion, three versions will force fans to start looking at the franchise as a collection of elements rather than a "my way or the highway" concept. Perhaps through that, some unity might take place and we might end up with something closer to what we find enjoyable.

To explain my mindset, I really disliked almost all of GINO, thought the pilot for Caprica was pretty good, and was compelled by the Blood and Chrome trailer. If Singer says his script is "Really, really cool", I'm ready to give it a chance as it may deliver some great stuff, although it sounds like the funding and enthusiasm for anything Galactica these days is pretty low.

Truthfully, after seeing this, I'm a bit more hopeful than I was.

[BST]

I'd like to be hopeful but, after nearly 34 years and at least the last several involving Singer, I would have expected a bit more concrete information.

Count me solidly in the "wait and see" category.

[gmd3d]

I'd like to be hopeful but, after nearly 34 years and at least the last several involving Singer, I would have expected a bit more concrete information.

Count me solidly in the "wait and see" category.

same here....... :...:

[jjrakman]

It also tells us it's going to be some sort of mish-mash of BG and NBG.

Wasn't that what the video game attempted?

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but this seems to me to be a great way to minimize the audience, since it seems that the group who likes both GINO and BSG is much smaller than either of the two fan bases in and of themselves.

[martok2112]

Yeah, the PS2/Xbox game of BSG was sorta meant to be a prequel to the new show's miniseries, but it largely kept to the original series feel. Adama and Cain are Viper pilots, both serving aboard the Galactica under Commander Magus. (Interesting to note is that Cain is a male in the video game, and a female in the new series...so maybe somewhere along the way, he got a sex change ha ha ha.)

I don't really mean to spoil, but, I am going under the presumption that pretty much anyone who has the game, has it, and its sales have probably gone about as far as they're gonna go....but, at the end of the game, we see the original series Galactica move past the camera, and it goes out of camera frame. When the camera reacquires the Big G, she is the new series ship. So, this would suggest that the original series ship is the pre-mod design for the Moore series ship. (Quite the opposite in my fanfic...possibly to become fan animated movie--Galactica: The Last Battlestar, in which the original series Big G is the newest and most state of the art ship in the Colonial Fleet. The new series ships are the old-tech in my story.) :)

[David Kerin]

If I remember correctly the XBOX/PS2 game started production based on the DeSanto/Singer version, which was still on track when they started designing the game. So many of the production designs match what was in their Galactica. Also the Viper was designed for this game, and was liked by the GINO production team and adapted as their Viper. I know I read that somewhere but cannot remember where. So when things went from Singer/DeSanto over to Moore's version, the game was retrofitted with a few things to tie into Moore's Galactica. Such as the ship transition in the end, and the opening narration about the machines turning against the human creators.

One other thing that makes it really obvious that its not originally based on Moore's version is the existence of aliens, which Moore was adamant would not be in his universe. The game has an alien Imperious Leader (though different looking from TOS), and we see the alien Hasari.

For me I enjoy the game as a glimpse into what might have been in the DeSanto series. I just wish the gameplay was designed a bit better. I do have an old mod for Freespace where you fly a Viper against Raiders, and its all old school Battlestar Galactica. That's fun. Wish they continued development.

[Centurion Draco]

So how do we re-energize the fan base to get 'em talking about this again? I think unfortunately its the major movers and shakers that are sort of burnt out. Rightfully so, they did a lot and got slapped in the face for their efforts.

What about running another ad?

Not going to happen, been suggested, not enough motiviation left in the original fanbase to light a fart.

Fracking sad IMHO.

[martok2112]

If I remember correctly the XBOX/PS2 game started production based on the DeSanto/Singer version, which was still on track when they started designing the game. So many of the production designs match what was in their Galactica. Also the Viper was designed for this game, and was liked by the GINO production team and adapted as their Viper. I know I read that somewhere but cannot remember where. So when things went from Singer/DeSanto over to Moore's version, the game was retrofitted with a few things to tie into Moore's Galactica. Such as the ship transition in the end, and the opening narration about the machines turning against the human creators.

One other thing that makes it really obvious that its not originally based on Moore's version is the existence of aliens, which Moore was adamant would not be in his universe. The game has an alien Imperious Leader (though different looking from TOS), and we see the alien Hasari.

For me I enjoy the game as a glimpse into what might have been in the DeSanto series. I just wish the gameplay was designed a bit better. I do have an old mod for Freespace where you fly a Viper against Raiders, and its all old school Battlestar Galactica. That's fun. Wish they continued development.


I would've loved for the PS2/Xbox game to have been multi-player, Colonials vs Cylons. And yeah, looking at a lot of it, it was indeed drawn on some of the DeSanto/Singer concepts...especially the Centurions I think. The only thing I didn't like was the banana shaped Cylon Raiders. Ugly!

I would've loved to see the old school Galactica game built on the Freespace engine. Beyond The Red Line, based on the new series, is built on the FreeSpace 2 engine I believe. I'd play either of them. :)

[Dawg]

Not going to happen, been suggested, not enough motiviation left in the original fanbase to light a fart.

Fracking sad IMHO.

CD, we got burned, and burned badly. The extent of that burning is evident in your own post - we never used the word "Frack" in that manner until after 2003.

All we can hope for in any future Galactica is that there are some recognizable elements from the original - and I'm not talking about ship designs.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[BST]

,...and I always thought that the word was "frak".

No, -ed, -ing just, "frak".

:/:

[Dawg]

I believe it was "ck." I think dropping the "c" is another gift from 2003.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[JLHurley]

I thought adding the "c" was a 2003 gift...and don't recall personally ever writing it with a "c" from 1978 to present.

Regardless, that video gave me no hope whatsoever that we'll see a BG revival from Singer. Hopefully I'll be proven very, very wrong very, very quickly!

[jjrakman]

"Some sort of mish-mash of BG and NBG" sounds dreadfully uninteresting; just like the video game.

Count me out. :barf:

[TwoBrainedCylon]

JJ,

It depends on which elements of both it decides to keep and how it decides to blend them. It could be really good or really horrible. I'd be less worried about what Byran wants to do than what the studios decide is required for getting the budget. Using the video game as an example, it had a straightforward premise that was retrofitted to serve as a promotional.

I never played the video game but thought the intercut animations were pretty well done. I liked those more than a lot of the GINO action shots. It at least hinted at what could have been done with the original premise.

If this fusion/remake/whatever really tries to be a "Galactica story", rather than edgy, dark, and gritty, then it may be a big surprise for most of us. I suspect that if it is ever made, everyone who is now saying "count me out" will end up watching it to see what its all about. I did that with the pilot episode of Caprica and ended up liking it quite a bit (although I never saw the series).

I don't see this being a big hit. I think the chances of getting any new Galactica that would be a sweeping success were burned up in 2003. Galactica is a niche franchise now and we should expect that anything that does materialize to be along those lines, but like Hammer House of Horror, a niche, struggling franchise can have some good moments along the way. This isn't the original but at least its sounding like its not GINO version 2 either, and I'm hopeful in some respects because of that.

Plus, I'll admit that I thought the prototype Cylon in "Caprica" was pretty damn cool. I also liked the combat centurion in the flashback sequences from "Razor", so I know that they can get it right on occasion.

And if the comedy version of Land of the Lost could get made, you can't fully count out anything getting a budget. I don't think its going to happen but I think everyone here recognizes that this is truly our very last chance to get anything with any hint of the original premise included in it.

All my best,


Russell

[jewels]

I'm going to see if something gets filmed. If Universal was in better financial shape I'd say "if" but The shows on USA are probably their best output at this time.

Singer has done good stuff and hired good people in the past, so there's a chance of something good coming of it. I think the "if" of funding is huge at this point, or Singer would have it further along.

[Lara]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/08/02/battlestar-galactica-movie-bryan-singer-update

Hopes to do it, and thinks it will exist quite well between the two BSGs, evolving quite well.

Still a wide target, still a tease with the risk we will make vast assumptions from a few off gaurd words.

At least it is still getting mentioned by a player with cred..

One thing I do know, if you make something to please everyone, you will satisfy noone..

Cheers,
Lara

[martok2112]

One thing I do know, if you make something to please everyone, you will satisfy noone..

Cheers,
Lara

Wisdom! :)

To add: If you try to make something to please everyone, it comes across as a fanboy effort...and to me, that's kind of an injustice to the property.

[jjrakman]

To me it seems like we've been through this before. I seem to remember claims from the GINO production crew that this was going to have the original premise in it, that it was going to be more true to the original than the original itself. I think we all know how that worked out.

When I watched Bryan Singer's reaction in the clip, it didn't seem so much to be to be a surprise that someone asked him the question, so much as it seemed like it was a question that he didn't want to be asked, at least not yet. I seem to remember discussions how Singer and DeSanto kept their own production as secret as they could at the time, and I see no reason why they would change their tactics.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it doesn't depend on what elements are blended to together. For me, any element of GINO blended in will make it wholly unwatchable. But I'm probably the only one who never saw a single episode of Moore's drek, so I'm probably in the minority.

All I know is that if their plan is to give us a hint of the original premise, then I'd honestly just rather have nothing at all.

[martok2112]

I find it interesting to where the new series seemed to pick up on, and expand upon some elements in the novelization of SASW.

-Galactica, swing out landing arms.
-Col. Tigh, does not hide feelings well...in fact, because of that propensity, it cost him a chance at ship command at least once.

Would cite more, but have to go sing right now. :)

[TwoBrainedCylon]

JJ,

Not trying to be crass, but if "any element" of GINO is blended in makes it unwatchable, I have to wonder how you would know at what point it becomes unwatchable as you've never seen any of GINO and likely wouldn't know what those elements were as opposed to something new. Logically, you'd run the risk of accidentally seeing something you really liked and then changing your mind when you discovered its origin.

I'm reminded of the controversy over the original series-ish centurions in the Razor flashback in GINO. I really liked them and thought the scene they were used in was really cool. It was an unexpected gem in a series that I thought had mostly ranged from disappointing to an outright insult to my social values. I said so and as a result, some other fans got rather aggressive, not only with myself but with another person who liked it, and all but shouted Infidel!

At the time I was pretty irritated but I think over the years, I've put all that in a better perspective. Namely, their loss, both for not seeing the original series template underneath it all and for being jerks about how others reacted to it.

I don't concur with the "Nothing will ever be good enough" concept. I respect that you do but would think it would be quite unfortunate if Singer did manage to pull it off and make something polished and good only to have it crash because too many in the target audience either said "That's not the original series" or "That's not GINO". At least Singer is giving the potential of something that can be looked at as a glass half full, which is more than anyone has tried to do in a decade.

That alone is worth 2 hours of my time and the price of a ticket.

All my best,


Russell

[jewels]

Not to mention the cost of a babysitter!

I can think of a few items I wouldn't mind seeing from Gino. The miniatures in the war room or for that matter, a war room for planning strategy. A battle strategy like they used a Colonial Movers ship for in the 1st season of Gino. A strong female council of twelve member or other civilian leader. The nearly relentless battle of 33. The idea of showing more ongoing with the civilian population (unrealized for much beyond Saga or Take the Celestra in the original series.) I wouldn't object to a raptor-level fighting troop carrier (the raptor strikes me as an A-10 gunship crossed with a mini-Galactica shuttle.)

I've enumerated what I didn't like too many times to waste a breath with again. It's water under the bridge and washed out into the deepest depths of the ocean. Singer is smart (you don't come up with a character like Gregory House, if you aren't. You don't take X-Men from animated comic to live action leather-clothed summer blockbusters x3, that redefined what a movie of a comic book character could be, if you're not smart.

I'll hold out a tad of hope that the man knows dross and flotsam from the things that matter and are central to the story. I won't hold my breath for Uni to finance the movie. They and parent, NBC, have been spotty at best for the last 10 years at least.


Jewels

[jjrakman]

JJ,

Not trying to be crass, but if "any element" of GINO is blended in makes it unwatchable, I have to wonder how you would know at what point it becomes unwatchable as you've never seen any of GINO and likely wouldn't know what those elements were as opposed to something new. Logically, you'd run the risk of accidentally seeing something you really liked and then changing your mind when you discovered its origin.



Unwatchable for me. As far as how I would know that;for the same reason I know that there are no elements in Jersey Shore that I would find watchable.

I don't have to actually watch something to know I have zero interest in "giving it a chance."

I don't concur with the "Nothing will ever be good enough" concept. I respect that you do...

Actually, I don't subscribe to that at all. Pretty much any kind of Continuation or reasonably faithful reboot would be okay in my book, I wouldn't sweat the small stuff.

Rather what I do subscribe to, is that anything that contains elements of Moore's drek would in fact never be good enough, at least not for me.

I don't want to be crass either, but if others want to get spit on over feathered hair and disco casinos all over again, have at it. Enjoy.

As for me, I just don't have any interest in any hybrid film.

[Apolloisall]

As for me, I just don't have any interest in any hybrid film.
Yeah, me either.

[Dawg]

Yeah, me either.

For me, it would depend on how they approach it. Are they looking at both shows and deciding which element to include? If that's the way they do it, I'm out.

But if they start with the original story and the original characters and then approach it from the perspective of 21st-Century storytelling (think Firefly or even the way Abrams did with Star Trek), they could have a winner.

These were positive aspects of GINO that can be traced not to the story or characters, but to how the story was told, that I think can be applied successfully here. I would certainly give a Battlestar Galactica made from this perspective a chance.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Punisher454]

Myself I dont have any interest in mixing in any of the GINO storyline at all. Some of the more modern production techniques a big yes. Some of the added grittiness, yes. more complex characters, yes. having ALL the characters so riddled with character flaws that they become dysfunctional half the time, NO. Almost total lack of morality, no.

I also agree, an Abrams Star Trek type Reboot would be ok.

[Apolloisall]

Myself I dont have any interest in mixing in any of the GINO storyline at all. Some of the more modern production techniques a big yes. Some of the added grittiness, yes. more complex characters, yes. having ALL the characters so riddled with character flaws that they become dysfunctional half the time, NO. Almost total lack of morality, no.

I also agree, an Abrams Star Trek type Reboot would be ok.

^^^What Punisher said!

[Senmut]

BSG is just that...BSG. It is NOT GINO. Sure, modern photographic techniques, and sounds, et al. But GINO has NEVER been anything but a rip-off, a pale imitation. Taming of the Shrew vs. My Mother The Car.

[Apolloisall]

BSG is just that...BSG. It is NOT GINO. Sure, modern photographic techniques, and sounds, et al. But GINO has NEVER been anything but a rip-off, a pale imitation. Taming of the Shrew vs. My Mother The Car.
Wow, that's pretty harsh there, Sen.

I happen to concur.:D

[martok2112]

Wow, that's pretty harsh there, Sen.

I happen to concur.:D

Couldn't disagree more, but hey, we're all unique. :)

[monolith21]

I don't know about this whole blending thing. I think if anyone can do it it is Singer. I know his heart is with the original so I think we'll get something balanced in favor of that even if he does choose to bring in some style elements or whatever from the other show.

[martok2112]

In all honesty, in this particular time, I highly doubt it would be possible to make a Galactica movie based on the original series without introducing some elements from the new show....at least in terms of the technology, and perhaps some characters (basically, the knuckledraggers...the flight crew, Tyrol, Cally, Prosna, etc.) .

I don't mean to self-promote, but folks, why don't you check out my fanfic of "Galactica: The Last Battlestar", (available here at the Fleets fanfic section...albeit incomplete) and then you tell me that a blending is absolutely NOT possible. It can be done if done respectfully for the source material....and my story respects both source materials in the ways they should be kept. But, go ahead, read it, and I CHALLENGE you not to believe that a blending could work. (Just ask some of the folks here who have read it. ) Yes, the story has many elements from the new series --largely technological, but there are some characters that carry over, but it is largely entrenched in the somewhat more positive spirit of the original. (And yes, Starbuck and Boomer --and Cain-- are dudes again....so worry not. :) And, the Cylons are once again made by an alien race. )

[Senmut]

Well, one could mix Shakespeare and Monty Python, but why in the Lords of Kobol's names, would one want to?

[martok2112]

Well, one could mix Shakespeare and Monty Python, but why in the Lords of Kobol's names, would one want to?

Don't tempt me! :devil:

Seriously though, a blending of the two Galacticas is not so evil a thing as some folks make it out to be...again, if it is done in the context that both sets of fans could appreciate.


Interesting, if extreme and flawed, rebuttal there, Senmut. Perhaps you should read my fanfic, and see if you can ask that question again. :)