How many ships equal a squadron?

April 6th, 2004, 05:09 PM

I've been trying to count from the show, and so far I've gotten 4 and 5 for a "squadron". How many is it and is this # correct? Just wondering, I really have no idea!

Sci-Fi · April 6th, 2004, 05:56 PM

It depends. In TOS (not including the Pegasus squadrons added later), there were 2 squadrons, Red and Blue. The normal Viper complement is 75 Vipers. So figure 37 per squadron, less if they held back or kept, say 10% or more for reserve and some Vipers in for repairs. In the Mini, the squadron size was 14-15 Vipers with a Raptor.

In TOS, watch either "Saga of a Lost World, part 3" or "Lost Planet of the Gods, part 2" and try to count all the vipers that were launched (surface of the planet and/or from the Galactica) and that should give you an idea of the size and number of the 2 squadrons. In other TOS episodes, it wasn't explained why after launching blue squadron, the viewers only seen relatively few Vipers flying. A good guess would be that a launch of a full squadron complement would only occur if a full scale attack was under way to save fuel. Other terms used like "defence force", "patrol", "probe", etc. all had a different number of Vipers that made up each one and the terms seemed interchangable, depending on the episode. No need to overanaylze the show, just enjoy the episodes.

Aeneas · April 6th, 2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I've been trying to count from the show, and so far I've gotten 4 and 5 for a "squadron". How many is it and is this # correct? Just wondering, I really have no idea!

According to the "Battlestar Galactica SFB and Friends" site(where I get much of my "misc" info), a typical Colonial Squadron is about 75 vipers.
Here's the site's breakdown:

Flight: About 8 fighters--commanded by a Flt Sgt.

Wing--(short Squadron): typically comprised of 2-3 flights(18-24 fighters)--commanded by a Lt.

Squadron: Commanded by a Capt. Contains about 4-6 flights--about 75 fighters.
staff.bus.bton.ac.uk/fesg/bsg/colonials/fleet_squadrons.html
(Note: Throughout TOS, the Galactica is said to have 2 complete Sqs.--about 100-
200 Vipers. BUT, The Pegasus? Well, only Silver Spar is mentioned...)

Naturally, as with everything, the writers may have goofed somewhat(based on source info--i.e., were they using the Navy, the USAF, or the RAF as a model

)
For example, if they were using the AF(which I know a..lil' sumptin about having been in that branch of service they left out two levels of organization: the "Group"(which comprises of several Sqs.) and the "Element"(the smallest unit usually2-3-4 fighters--basically leader/wingman units.) The site pretty much calls the "Flight" the smallest unit. Also Omega and Boomer refer to Blue Squadron as the Galactica's"Strike Wing" with Apollo being designated"Strike Leader" or "Strike Commander" They may have been using the Navy's carriers as a model--but even then wouldn't a Group or a Wing be higher then a Sq.?

Navy(US or Royal--even Army or USMC)vets any help/expertise would be greatly appreciated(so's nobody feels left out--and more importantly I don't get caught with my foot...er keyboard.. in my mouth!!

Basically if the show was based on the USAF model the order of battle on board a battlestar(or ground base) would look like this: (least to greatest)

Element
Flight
Squadron
Group
Wing
Note2: Maybe the orginal grouping(website) is based on the Brits--after all it is posted on a British site!! And yes, I forgot that in the Navies a Squadron also refers to a number of ships!!
Please, Please don't ask who commands what in this view 'cuz now I'm thoroughly confused--what happens when one thinks too much

Aeneas · April 6th, 2004, 06:03 PM

[QUOTE No need to overanaylze the show, just enjoy the episodes.[/QUOTE]

This is what happens when I write TOO MUCH!!

Always end up lagging behind!!

warhammerdriver · April 7th, 2004, 07:12 AM

I think you have "Group" and "Wing" reversed.

For example, the 380th Bomb Wing (Medium) consisted of a Tanker Group and a Bomber Group. (IIRC, it's been a while)

LucianG · April 9th, 2004, 05:15 PM

Near the end of Saga of a Star World, Starbuck and Apollo were pretending to be other squadrons when using an open comm system. The Cylons believed this to be the case. Since the two squadrons were engaged with the Raiders attacking the Galactica, then the Cylons must have believed that the Galactica could carry four squadrons or more (or possibly that another, unknown Battlestar had survived).

Sometime during the series run, I read an article about the Galactica that said the Galactica could carry at least 125 Vipers.

Combining those two thoughts, I figured that a Squadron would probably consist of about 32 ships, which could easily be broken down into wings, flights, etc., as has been discussed. A squadron would probably have more Warriors than Vipers, and there was always a possibility that some would be out of service. Therefore, my best guess was that a squadron would probably consist of about 48 Warriors and probably 35 ships, 32 of which could be counted upon to be active at most of the time. The others would be being overhauled, etc., and wouldn't count against the ship's total.

That said, I like the idea of the Galactica normally carrying two squadrons of 75 Vipers each, with capability of doubling that in a crunch. Against a Baseship, that would ordinarily only be 2:1 odds, which would give the Colonials a very good chance of success. The Galactica carrying only 75 Vipers normally with a peak of 150 has always been far too small in my mind.

Rowan · April 9th, 2004, 05:22 PM

At this site on this page they specify (using quotes form various sources) that a battleship has the capacity to hold 150 vipers but that they only carry 75...

http://www.battlestargalacticaclub.c...erfleet07.html

April 9th, 2004, 05:27 PM

All of this is VERY intersting. I thought I'd get 1-3 replies with just a number, no real "explanation" like you all have provided. THANK YOU!

LucianG · April 9th, 2004, 08:57 PM

Phoenix,

I've seen the 75 typical/150 maximum previously, but I don't think either of the quoted sources are considered canon (Rowan, thanks for the link to that page, which I hadn't seen before). Considering that a Baseship could carry 300 Raiders (which was from the series), a typical load of 75 Vipers is too small for the Colonials to have a chance of winning on a consistent basis, especially if there were few Battlestars (5(?) at the time of Cimtar).

There have been several very good threads here at CF about the number of Vipers carried by Battlestars, and about the number of Battlestars, including repcisg's excellent analysis showing that there were probably more Battlestars at Cimtar than is commonly held.

L

Rowan · April 9th, 2004, 10:00 PM

It does sound like a very small amount doesn't it ?

here is anothe site with a little info

http://staff.bus.bton.ac.uk/fesg/bsg..._cva_note.html

LucianG · April 10th, 2004, 07:48 AM

Rowan,

Thanks for another good link. Parts of that were very much in line with my line of thinking based on some of the examples cited.

L