Infanticide: the final word

[Kester Pelagius]

Greetings Trevor,

And a Happy New Year to you!

Originally posted by Trevor Angelus
I AM NOT saying that if you liked the mini that you are immoral. However if you have to go and bend over backwards to defend the actions of the writers, you need to stop and look at what it exactly is that you are protecting IN THE LONG RUN!

Granted I didn't care about the mini, but I didn't even WATCH IT! I would be arguing this if were Babylon 5 or Stargate or Tracker.

I think it is time you step away from the keyboard, count to ten, and remind yourself this is only a televsion series. Then, upon reflection, and in light of your statement above, re-evaluate whether the stress you obviously must be deriving from this discussion is really worth it. Too, speaking to something of which, by your own admission, you know nothing about is setting yourself up to be called a troll.

None of us want to see that.

I attempted to explained the scene, it is pointless, and totally amoral. (Not morally ambiguous, it is set up to be amoral while allowing viewers to fill-in-blanks.) It was designed that way. It is a trope. There is far worse out there in TV land, especially on "cop dramas" like NYPD Blue; if you are looking for a cause.

Just be aware that if you feel you can't be bothered with taking the time to actually view the shows you are setting out to chastise and heap contempt upon, that you may be treated in kind by those less charitable.

Just FYI.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

[BST]

Ok, folks.

Time to take a chill pill!!

Please keep the debate to the issue and not with each other's opinion of the issue.


Kester,

FYI - I did not watch the mini-series, either, and I was upset about the scene being filmed and included. For me, I did not need to visualize the scene to be upset about it, the mere reading about it served that purpose. Does that make my opinion any less worthy?

BST

[Darth Marley]

If I had a chill pill,I would be much happier.But I have been off my medication for many months now.

Being upset about a scene you didn't see...

Well,for one thing,I would venture it makes your opinion less informed.Maybe I need a different word.Many can complain about,for example,abusive language in rap lyrics,and never have heard the song.I understand your point in this regard.

As a fan of the RDM mini,it is a bit perplexing to see the highly energized TOS fanbase devoutly refusing to watch "the abomination" but still bother to read the script.

For my part,I do not seek out rap lyrics to read.But if it were something I knew about,I would have sought out an advance copy of the script.
For my tastes,if I read the script in advance,I would probably have loved it.

These differences have been rehashed elsewhere in the forum.

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...&threadid=5738 has interesting material direct from RDM.

[BST]

Originally posted by Darth Marley
If I had a chill pill,I would be much happier.But I have been off my medication for many months now.

Being upset about a scene you didn't see...

Well,for one thing,I would venture it makes your opinion less informed.

How so? (Then, I read the next 2 sentences...)

Maybe I need a different word.Many can complain about,for example,abusive language in rap lyrics,and never have heard the song.I understand your point in this regard.

Thanks, Darth.

...And to embellish what I said earlier, my point is, that I don't NEED to visualize #6 "holding the baby", "placing the baby back in the crib", "hearing the SNAP of the baby's neck", to realize that the scene sickens me. I was able to deduce that from reading it.

Also, as you don't go around looking for rap lyrics to read before listening to the song, I don't go around looking for scripts to read about shows which may interest me. I did, on this occasion, because BSG interests me and because the draft script was available. Due to my interest in BSG, suffice it to say that I kept up to date on the events surrounding it much more closely than I would other TV shows or movies.

Aside from watching the show, I feel that I was at least as "informed" as the person who heard about it and plopped down on the couch to watch it on Dec. 8 and 9.

BST

[Darth Marley]

I got a bit rushed,had to end the post.

The link to Larocque's post serve up good info on the topic,I thought.
Also,taken with reading that post,there may be something to actually seeing the scene.RDM's comment that it would have been cut if not so well performed.Sure,you can have informed outrage just by reading the script.But you might be missing something as well.

[Kester Pelagius]

Greetings BST,

And a very Happy New Year to you!

Originally posted by BST
FYI - I did not watch the mini-series, either, and I was upset about the scene being filmed and included. For me, I did not need to visualize the scene to be upset about it, the mere reading about it served that purpose. Does that make my opinion any less worthy?

It all depends upon context.

Viz. A discussion of scenes, as outlined in a script, is a far different matter from offering critique on a actual series. If you have not actually seen the scene in question how can you be able to properly speak to what was, or was not, actually shown? Imagination is a wonderous things and it can create vivid vistas of wonderous delight, or paint nightmare terraces of mind numbingly diabolical horror. But imagination is just what we would be talking about here, if all we were talking about was a scene in a script.

I am not trying to play devil's advocate for the scene, either as aired or as written, but if we haven't watched the series, then can we really speak to just how utterly pointless it was in context to what was actually shown on screen?

Of course not.

That isn't to say someone's opinion on the matter is invalid or unworthy. However the question you pose is a manner by comparison, and that could be construed as invalid as it could appear you are trying to deflect attention from what was actually said by twisting topical matters into a personal attack, thus forcing the person you are talking into a defensive stance. Debate society tactics 101, or over-reaction?

Doesn't matter. Irrelevant. Like the scene in question.

I may be biased, having stated flatly I think it is a pointless scene, one that, IMO, was put in strictly for shock value. It is just a Hitchcockian shower scene. You never explicitly see anything actually occur. That makes it abjetly amoral. More to the point the scene in the actual series is, I believe, what was under discussion. Not how the scene may or may not have been presented in a script.

Script's change. The manner in which the written word portrays scenes undergoes significant change once the dynamic of human presense (read: actors) are involved. But, from what you've said, I presume the scene was even worse in the script. And that just goes to show, IMO, that the scene was designed to do just what it is doing here. Stir emotions by causing a visceral reaction. Far as I can see, based on the series as aired, and comments from those who have read the script, the scene would seem to have served no purpose beyond this.

Whch is sad.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

[Trevor Angelus]

Okay I tried playing nice but it seems that from the responses I'm getting that you are skimming through my posts and taking them out of context.

For one, in order for me to be a troll I have to Slam one thing and praise another. I did no such thing. I have not slammed the Mini, well not in this thread anyway. This thread has nothing to do with slamming the mini. READ THE SUBJECT!!!!!

It ia discussing the issue of infantcide, not on how good or bad the mini was, but on how moral of a decision it was to use the death of children in a MINOR plot development, and when I ay minor, I mean the film could have done without these scenes.

My argument is and always ahas been that once you open the door to something more often than not you canot close it and it leads to yet another door.

Like it was said about the shower scene. That was 40 years ago, and back then that was very shocking. Today we can SHOW audiences the nudtity AND the actual stabbing of the victim.

My point is this, just like psycho, this act of infantcide has opened the door to where they may actually SHOW the child's death in a future film 40 years down the road, if not sooner.

Also does the shower scene still bother people? For the most part no, in fact you'll be hard pressed to find a a teen who is disturbed by the Exorcist! They look at that and say "What's the big deal?" I don't want that to happen where child death is concerned.

Another thing, I have never singled out ANYONE and called anybody immoral, yet I have been singled out in most everyone's posts.

It seems that what set everyone off was on how I said you need to reevaluate your morals.I was speaking in general to everyone, not singling out anyone in particular.

I was stating that if the death of a child, in any shape or form did not bother ANYONE we need to take a fresh look at what we, as human beings consider right and wrong.

I do not have the right to judge ANYONE, that job belongs to the courts and the powers the be behind the universe.

I was merely pointing out what will likely happen if we turn a blind eye to this.

And as for me attacking Moore, I loved Star Trek TNG. I think he is a VERY talented writer. Yet I do not agree with his decision to use infantcide in his script, and that was the SOUL of the subject on this thread. Let's stay on subject.

I'm with most people on the subject that if you like the mini, I'm glad it entertained you and I hope you continue to enjoy it. As for me, if I respect your opinion, please respect mine.

Go back and read my posts in this light to get my meaning. And once again if I offended anyone i'm sorry.

[thomas7g]

Originally posted by Kester Pelagius
.... speaking to something of which, by your own admission, you know nothing about is setting yourself up to be called a troll.

[IMG]stop.gif[/IMG]

Kester, DO NOT REFER TO PEOPLE AS TROLLS.


EVERYONE. CALM DOWN. THE ANGER IS MESSING UP MY HAPPY ISLAND.