Now this takes science a little too far

[Archangel]

The future of transportation
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12...ain_flies_jet/

[Muffit]

It's tragic what human beings will do, when their lust for knowledge outweighs their appreciation for lives other than their own...

Living things, ALL living things, deserve to live the life, however short or "meaningless", God (or nature if you will) has granted them. These "scientists" already have a life. How can they rob from something else, it's one and only chance of existing, of choosing for itself where that life will go.

Mary Shelley, your words have fallen on deaf, and heartless, ears...

[Archangel]

As sick as the science is, The brain was never part of a rat. It was independantly grown. Even so, I really disagree with science going in directions like this.

[Rowan]

we had a thread on this but it seems to have dissapeared!!

[Archangel]

I don't recall it.

[Rowan]

this is just proof I spend way to much time here LOL ! the thread was called "Rat brain flies jet"

[Muffit]

Hi Archangel and Rowan! Yep, I remember the other thread...

If I seem sensitive to this kind of thing, it is for much better reason than you can imagine. Please remember that in history, "doctors" practiced something called vivisection on animals. It sprang from the fairly new and apparently successful experiments in grafting trees and such of different species together, to create a new and unique species. That success naturally gave way from flora, to fauna, albeit fairly ignorantly. Animals (in England especially) were widely expeirmented on, legs from one cut off and grafted onto another, etc, (without benefit of anesthesia), in order to "create" a new species. Both Frankenstein and Island of Dr. Moreau sprang from this horrid practice. Thankfully, it was eventually outlawed.

The thing is, even vivisection, at its worst, is nowhere near as cruel and moralless as experimenting with the mind. Physical pain goes away. Mental anguish, does not. People do not take their own lives because they lost an arm or leg, or broke their hip. But that thought crosses nearly everyone's mind, when they are faced with the loss of a deeply cherished loved one, or when their hopes are crushed beyond repair -- a pain so severe, so continual, so unbearable, the human threshhold for pain begs for relief, no matter what the cost.

The brain of an animal. sentient or otherwise, is more than the center of memory and logic. Somewhere, somehow, it gives birth to an awareness of being, the realization of the passage of time, and acute, inalienable emotions. Yes, we think we can say these are confined to one brain location only, but then, we used to think that bleeding Lincoln's feet would heal him too, and he bled to death. For all we know, the mind is far more complex than we give it credit for, in which each neural net is somehow a life in and of itself. Where is emotion? What is emotion? Do we have a spirit? And where does it reside?

My mother in law had a brain surgery which left her an inhuman vegetable for years. We used to watch Novelas together. Then in a moment she was gone. She was judged a piece of flora, confined to a bed where she could tell no one what pain she felt or deliverance she sought. No one could tell if she needed pain relievers, only the tears in her eyes and faint but desperate clutch of our hands could yield even a clue. That's how we think of animals; just because they cannot tell us, we feel we can inflict a little more.

Can you imagine a hell where a brain full of feeling and emotion and acutely aware of the passage of time, is imprisoned for life, unable to scream out its misery?

I can.

[Rowan]

Muffit I never read the article as posted or what you posted earlier I was focused on that missing thread instead of paying attention!!

If you have never seen David Suzuki's show on animal testing and your not sure if it's something that should be done then this is a must see! The sheer magnitude of wasted life for the sake of trivial knowledge is astounding and shameful!!

When I refused to dissect a piglet for nursing on principle the biology teacher was willing to figure something out but the nursing department told me I'd fail the class if I refused and without that class I would be out of the program.

When my girlfriend was training to be a veterinarian she was assigned a dog and they told her she would have to perform all sorts of unnecessary surgery on it and then euthanise it at the end of the term as practice. She refused on the basis that it was immoral there was a huge fall out from that she took it right to the top and caused quite a stir - she had been the first to protest this kind of boggles the mind that people who say they love animals and want to help them just participate in this kind of thing without questioning the validity of it
((((((((((((((Muffit)))))))))))))))))

[Muffit]

Thanks Rowan ((((((((((((((((Rowan)))))))))))))

It all goes back to Eden. We were given everything. Everything. But we wanted more.

We wanted to be like God.

Sadly for the creatures of this world, that quest will never end for some people.