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Old December 23rd, 2003, 10:02 AM   #1
Mike Wright
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Default A *small* fan base?

Someone else on this forum said "Apparently the Miniseries is garnering a small fan base, and they are attacking the fans of the old series."

First of all... I don't know how you can call it small, unless you aren't looking at all. I've talked with guys on SFM, 3DG, Galactica2003.net, most of everyone in SFI Region 5, and well, everyone I know that I either work with or just hang with. Everyone who's seen it loves it. And not one of them had anything bad to say about fans of the original, or about the original itself. I've seen like one person who said "Wow, its better than the original!" It isn't better than the original. That's just their opinions. We all have them. I don't think its fair to attack each other over it. And, as I've seen some people comment on this board, the vast majority of you here don't mean to and don't. Which is cool. I've seen one guy who looks like he's mounting a campaign to contact advertisers and complain about the mini. Which is a bunch of BS. People have a right to their opinions, but damn, don't ruin it for the rest of us. The people I've talked to about this, we all agree... We LIKED the original. It was great. We'd love to see a continuation of it, and don't doubt that it will come about. Look at the Brady Bunch, and the Adams Family. Both successfully pulled off both continuations AND reimaginings and did very well. My father is a huge Galactica fan, it was one of the few things we ever did together. But you know what, this new one is kinda cool too. I don't want to see it replace the original, no one does. And I don't think that was the intention.

If there is ANYTHING I'd like to see it replace, its Star Trek. Give us Trek fans a break, something else to watch while Paramount rethinks the stupid mistakes its made, ousts Brannon Braga and can put something back on the air that won't suck.

I mean seriously. We'll watch a continuation, and we'll like it, and we'll support it just as much as you hardcore original fans do. But please. Don't take away the one thing thats gonna clear the stink of Trek. Chances are if everyone keeps bashing each other over this, not only are we not going to see a Ron Moore Galactica series, we'll have no chance of a continuation. Thats a very real possibility guys. There are a hell of a lot of Trek fans here in Spokane Washington, and we used to have conventions... Until a small number of clubs started attacking each other because they disagreed about a variable number of things, and eventually Spokane was blacklisted. Now we have no conventions here, and none of them will ever consider coming back.

Now I didn't come here to attack the users of this board, I see the vast majority of you guys are sane individuals, in fact many of you I've known for years from the other forums. I'm just trying to make a plea for something that I happen to really like. I've been writing the Scifi Channel ever since this thing aired (And BTW, I was there with most people when they announced it, I hated the idea... But unlike some people, I gave it a chance when I saw the previews) and have heard nothing back from them. I've seen rumors on Galactica2003.net that the series is being greenlighted and they have to announce it before the end of the year or the actors options will expire. That rumor makes sense to me. Then I see a rumor here that it won't pick up because it will be just too expensive to make. That makes some sense, but then I also disagree with it. With todays technology, production like that costs a whole lot less. The sets did not look THAT expensive. They actually reminded me of the original Star Trek series, they looked so cheap. And CG is a whole lot less expensive than the model compositing they did in the original series. So I don't think cost is such an element.

And to tell you the truth, I seem to recall for years the stigma Star Trek fans held as being extremists and trolls and what not. Yet we can't seem to get rid of that show. As Ron Moore said in the beginning, people are gonna watch this thing whether they like it or not. And the ratings proved that. The first two airings were impressive, being the third highest in the channels history. But some of you guys don't know about the third airing on Sunday, which took in a 6.8 or something, which was by far the highest in the channels history. Word of mouth baby. People saw it, liked it, recomended it to friends.

Don't be too hard on the mini. It is bringing in new fans of the series, that are going to look back at the old and say "Hey, that was impressive for a TV show from the 70s." Then you'll have even more support for the continuation. My hand is still raised in support of that one. (Well except for the whole thing where the Vipers land and turn into Mechs... I'm sorry, but that just sounds stupid) And many more will too when the new series airs. I say bring it all on. Great series, both of them. Lets see it all. And get rid of Enterprise. I love Bakula, but please. They couldn't write an exciting plotline if it flew up and hit them in the face.

So please, PLEASE, PLEASE... Give us a chance. Give us a series that we can enjoy in place of these other crappy TV shows. And we'll help you with the continuation. We won't say nay. We say bring it. Bring it all.
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Old December 23rd, 2003, 10:33 AM   #2
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Hard to have a "small" fan base of around 4 million.
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Old December 23rd, 2003, 11:18 AM   #3
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Umm.. the best ratings number the thing got was 2.9 for the 9 PM airing of ep2. That's straight from Neilsen.

And just cos 4 million watched it doesn't mean it has a fanbase of 4 000 000. Not everyone that watches it is gonna like it. For everyone that says their friends, co-workers, etc love it there's someone that says they all hate it.

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Old December 23rd, 2003, 11:58 AM   #4
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"Someone else on this forum said "Apparently the Miniseries is garnering a small fan base, and they are attacking the fans of the old series."

First of all... I don't know how you can call it small, unless you aren't looking at all."

Once upon a time, there was this show going on 25 years old that many, many people liked, an they wanted to see more of that show, or at least a 'where are they now' approach. However, the networks said there were only a tiny handful of us who meant nothing.

Welcome to the club.
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Old December 23rd, 2003, 01:04 PM   #5
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Default Mike: You hit the nail on the head!

Like you I think many of us are SCIFI (and I don't mean the channel) fans and we're cheering for a good show. Like you I loved Star Trek but quit watching because of the weak storylines on Enterprise. I love Star Gate SG1. I think the new Battlestar if it happens has a great opportunity. It does frustrate me when I see the boycott movement. Why ruin it for someone else. If there is a large initial audience and then the stories get weak it may actually help get a continuation. If the stories are good why should anyone complain!
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Old December 23rd, 2003, 04:04 PM   #6
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Cos they made Starbuck a guy.. that's why. :P We all liek what we like. I don't like the change. So I complain. As do countless others.

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Old December 23rd, 2003, 05:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Micheleh
"Someone else on this forum said "Apparently the Miniseries is garnering a small fan base, and they are attacking the fans of the old series."

First of all... I don't know how you can call it small, unless you aren't looking at all."

Once upon a time, there was this show going on 25 years old that many, many people liked, an they wanted to see more of that show, or at least a 'where are they now' approach. However, the networks said there were only a tiny handful of us who meant nothing.

Welcome to the club.
Nail hit squarely on head!

Folks,

What it boils down to is this: will a potential series make money for Universal? That is the ONLY item that will be considered when the decision is made regarding a series.

They proved that, quite frankly, they don't give a damn about the fans' wishes or desires. Just look around. The problem that WE had and that YOU might have is thinking that a fan's voice will mean something to Universal. It won't.

So, we all, myself included because I have been known to hurl biting remarks toward the mini-series folks, should enjoy what we enjoy. If a continuation is meant to be, it will happen. By the same token, if a mini-series is meant to be, it, too, will happen.

My argument and frustration is not toward the folks that enjoyed the mini but, with those who produced it.

Sorry to sound so negative but, I'm just trying to be, shall we say, "realistic".

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Old December 24th, 2003, 02:27 AM   #8
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*sigh* I simply don't understand the negativity towards the mini. It was the best sci-fi I've seen on TV in years. And TOS was just sooooo hokey-dokey silly. Even when I was 12, I knew a laser blast from Ice Planet Zero shouldn't bend when it was shot. I knew the space battles were recycled low budge @#$% and I knew Hector and Vector were so dumb they made "Spock's Brain" look like "2001: A Space Odyssey".

C'mon...
Baltar is believable, intelligent but shallow and gullible.
Adama is believable, strong but with feelings.
Kara has the swashbuckle and is a deeper character.
The President is actually intelligent and courageous.
The Cylons are far more evil and dangerous.
The FX were incredible.
etc. etc. etc.

I just don't get the negativity. :confused: I don't miss TOS at all.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 03:33 AM   #9
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What's not to like about it?

Political correctness.

Starbuck is a guy's name. To make the role into some cigar chomping grrrl power part is just as hokey as anything in the orginal.

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Old December 24th, 2003, 05:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by DCRabbit
What's not to like about it?

Political correctness.

Starbuck is a guy's name. To make the role into some cigar chomping grrrl power part is just as hokey as anything in the orginal.

DC
I've noticed that people seem to use the PC label as a wide brush to denounce what they don't like. I don't see anything PC in the role of Starbuck. A PC Starbuck would have been a gay man (really PC he would have been married to Apollo).

Starbuck was changed to a woman for many reason, none of which had anything to do with political correctness. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the reasons for that decision, but I think that simply dismissing them as PC is a disservice to Moore.

As for Starbuck being a guys name that rule went out the door when those names were changed to call signs. There are only two rules that I am aware of when it comes to giving a nickname (or call sign) in the military. One, a person can't give themselves the name. Two, it has to be unique (at least in the unit). Nothing in there about gender identification.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 06:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by beeker
I've noticed that people seem to use the PC label as a wide brush to denounce what they don't like.
That, in fact, is about the only thing it's been used for in over a decade. I agree.

"Starbuck" is not a "man's name" -- honestly, I've never met anyone with the given name "Starbuck". Calling it a "man's name" is like calling "Mork" or "The Great Gazoo" a man's name -- in what cultural, religious or family tradition is that so?

It's a nickname at best. I've known women nicknamed Timmy, Charlie and Fred.

Of course, that's setting aside the whole discussion of traditional male given names which have shifted in the last century into primarily women's names -- "Leslie", anyone?

The PC charge is without merit.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 07:37 AM   #12
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Feelings run high because fans of the original show never got their ending. The 'rag tag fleet' never found Earth.

Alot of people want to see Benedict and Hatch in BSG again. Many people simply respect Hatch because he put a hell of a lot of work keeping the BSG 'brand' alive in people's minds.

The mini didn't really make a great attempt to win over the fans that have been 'keeping the dream alive' so to speak. At the same time Moore didn't do that bad of a job with the writing on his script. People need to understand, especially with the Starbuck character, that there is no male actor who could have done that role as half as good as Dirk. Given what Moore was trying to do, having a female Starbuck was the right way to go.

Fans of the mini need to understand where alot of the anger is coming from. Fans of the original need to understand a successful mini and series is their best shot for the studios greenlighting a Larson movie. It's all about respect and keeping the criticism constructive.

Last edited by sihirvyth2; December 24th, 2003 at 07:47 AM..
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Old December 24th, 2003, 07:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by sihirvyth2
Fans of the mini need to understand where alot of the anger is coming from. Fans of the original need to understand a successful mini and series is their best shot for the studios greenlighting a Larson movie. It's all about respect and keeping the criticism constructive.
No argument here! Although, the prospect of a Larson/DeSanto continuation movie is not necessarily dependent on the success of the mini. The main ingredient in the recipe is Interest. If there is interest in the franchise, as a whole, the chances for the movie are enhanced.

Overall, folks on "both sides" need to understand that the argument is not one that should be amongst ourselves. Each of us is entitled to his / her own likes and dislikes. To echo sihirvyth2, "it's all about (mutual) respect and keeping the criticism constructive". Those are very good words and very sound advice.



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Old December 24th, 2003, 08:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sihirvyth2
Fans of the mini need to understand where alot of the anger is coming from.
Believe me, I've seen enough of this anger and understood "where it's coming from" long enough to be thoroughly...weary of and unmoved by it.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 09:43 AM   #15
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Sorry to bore you with such things as people's feelings, Dennis. Perhaps a good book would be more enjoyable.

Quote:
To echo sihirvyth2, "it's all about (mutual) respect and keeping the criticism constructive". Those are very good words and very sound advice.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 10:04 AM   #16
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DVD sales, nuff said
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Old December 24th, 2003, 10:05 AM   #17
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I just asked elsewhere,what are the dvd sales numbers???
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Old December 24th, 2003, 10:14 AM   #18
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I've been searching, high and low, for some definitive numbers. Nothing concrete, so far, for USA. But, check the Sales Figures thread in BSG Discussion

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...&threadid=4837

If anyone finds anything, please update it there. Thanks.

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Old December 24th, 2003, 10:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BST
Sorry to bore you with such things as people's feelings, Dennis. Perhaps a good book would be more enjoyable.
I've no doubt that it would, and will be.

Yeah, the anger is boring -- as an excuse for bad behavior, it's beyond that -- and it's also entirely counterproductive to what the old time fans keep saying they want to accomplish.

You can claim that "righteous" anger somehow motivates and fuels change, but I've been watching TOS fandom chase its tail and shoot itself in the foot, repeatedly, for quite a while now. Frankly, I don't think I've ever seen a group of sf fans successfully generate so much negative mention for themselves in the mainstream entertainment press. No one involved in this mess has "beaten" TOS fandom the way it's beaten itself.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 10:23 AM   #20
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Comparing sales figures of the DVD and viewership of the mini is totally innacurate, anyway. You have to pay money for the DVD and go through the ordering process. All you had to do to get the mini was push a button on your remote.

25 years from now, if they sell DVD's of the mini/whatever to the fanbase that's held out hope for a return all that time... then we'll compare numbers.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 10:28 AM   #21
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Dennis- if you want to discuss the show, fine. Please leave off on the urge to pass judgement on the membership while you're here. That isn't what this forum is for.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 10:56 AM   #22
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Default Re: A *small* fan base?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Wright
Someone else on this forum said "Apparently the Miniseries is garnering a small fan base

Generally, fanatics wish to portray anything they dislike as being an aberration only liked by a tiny group of disposable perverts. This is also known as "sour grapes". The miniseries garnered a large positive response, especially for cable. Were this not the case, we'd have already heard that there would be no regular series.

However, there will always be those who, when confronted with reality, will retreat into conspiracy theory...
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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:00 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by sihirvyth2
[B]Feelings run high because fans of the original show never got their ending. The 'rag tag fleet' never found Earth.
Sure it did: Galactica 1980!

:devil

Quote:
Alot of people want to see Benedict and Hatch in BSG again.
So would I, but I don't get enraged over what is ultimately a trivial matter. My children do not starve over this.

Quote:
Fans of the mini need to understand where alot of the anger is coming from.
I do understand it. That doesn't mean that it the least bit acceptable.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:03 AM   #24
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*SIGH*

Bored now.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Micheleh
Dennis- if you want to discuss the show, fine. Please leave off on the urge to pass judgement on the membership while you're here. That isn't what this forum is for.
I'm not the one who brought up the usual "anger" and complaints. Perhaps if people want to discuss their anger rather than the show, they ought to take that elsewhere as well.

So, what's the forum for -- baiting fans of the miniseries with remarks about "waiting 25 years for DVD sales" to compare the size of the two groups?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dogface
I do understand it. That doesn't mean that it the least bit acceptable. [/B]
Exactly. Thanks.

Last edited by Dennis; December 24th, 2003 at 11:20 AM..
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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:43 AM   #26
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You know the rules. I was pointing out that comparing televised ratings and DVD sales is not going to give you an acccurate picture. That's debating, not baiting.

(Edit)I reread the anger comment... if you come in here after such a long absence and say that you're weary of the jsutification here, more or less, and a moderator asks you tot one it down... there you go.

Don't say "well, you fussed at me but not him, so I'm okay", that's tiresome and leads to pointless justification, which I have no intention of doing.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:44 AM   #27
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"Generally, fanatics wish to portray anything they dislike as being an aberration only liked by a tiny group of disposable perverts."

Dogface- same for you. Leave off the name calling and finger pointing.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Micheleh
Comparing sales figures of the DVD and viewership of the mini is totally innacurate, anyway. You have to pay money for the DVD and go through the ordering process. All you had to do to get the mini was push a button on your remote.

25 years from now, if they sell DVD's of the mini/whatever to the fanbase that's held out hope for a return all that time... then we'll compare numbers.
I grant that it is not an accurate comparison.

Sales of DVD does indicate size of TOS fanbase,and does not discriminate to correct for fans of both incarnations that want to see an RDM series.
Ratings of mini does not discriminate to correct for those that watched in horror vs those that enjoyed and want more.

I had seen a few threads basking in the glory of successful DVD sales.I don't think anyone has detracted this trend.
I do see those attempting to undermine the relevance of ratings in hope that RDM series never exists.Some of the arguments are correct in points of fact.And of course,a bit of cheerleading on the part of the anti mini faction is to be expected.

Happy viewing everyone.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:56 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by DCRabbit
Starbuck is a guy's name.
It's not a name, it's a nickname. And can you prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that a woman can't have that nickname?

I know women who are called "Sam", "Mike", "Wrench"...
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Old December 24th, 2003, 12:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dogface

So would I, but I don't get enraged over what is ultimately a trivial matter. My children do not starve over this.
I guess I'm not seeing the rage, I'm seeing people with a preference disappointed they didn't get what they wanted, and still hoping they can.

After the mini, alot of the bad feelings from fans of TOS seemed to dissipate. If anything I'm seeing the pendulum swing back the other way. Reviews and supposed 'fans of the mini' acting like there are a bunch of bespectacled 30 year old TOS fans living in their mother's basement plotting to get all the people who like the mini. It's just ludicrious.

There are a few people who aren't on any 'side' but are just out there to stir the pot. To say they reflect on the average fan of the TOS or the mini is just wrong. I'm uncomfortable with people being in one camp or the other in general. Amost everyone I know likes both.
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