Research = Success

[Dawg]

Well, it's clear we don't see this issue the same way, antelope, and that's fine. You think Moore is intimately familiar with TOS, I think he gave it a passing glance at best. You insist on links between the two productions I just can't see.

I disagree with you on Larson and Moore thinking similarly, though; are you aware of what Mr. Larson said at Galacticon about the Moore production? He was not complimentary.

With G80, Larson was hamstrung by the network. If he and his production team had been left alone, no doubt we would have seen a higher quality show, aimed at an older demographic. But it would have been set within the same universe as TOS; as with ST:TNG, it would have been different, but it would have been Battlestar Galactica.

I will say it again: the Moore production lacks the BSG universe. It lacks the mythology. It lacks the characters. It lacks nearly everything that made TOS "Battlestar Galactica" instead of "Exodus". Moore did not have to know BSG to write a show that doesn't take place in the BSG universe.

That's why I think as I do about this.

Like I said, though, you see things I can't seem to, no matter how objective I try to be. It's a shame, too; if he'd not called this "Battlestar Galactica" I might be one of his bigger supporters.

'Later.

I am
Dawg

Dawg:
If Moore changed the names back to one word, Starbuck was a man, and they wore an Egyptian style helmet you would find something else.

If Larson wanted to move Galactica in 1980 to a later time slot and make it for a mature audience exactly what is it other than the one word names and Egyptian style helmet that would have been so different?

I don't worry about which one doesn't like which version. Hatch isn't exactly kind to Desanto's version. Everyone wants THEIR version.

If you wrote a list of all things unique to Battlestar Galactica versus let's say Star Trek I think it would be pretty obvious that Moore's show is in the Galactica universe. BSG1980 is in the Galactica universe also. Be honest what is a better representation of Battlestar Galactica: the Moore version or Larson's BSG1980. Most would pick Moore's version even though BSG1980 has the one word names, some old TOS actors, the word frack, and Egyptian style helmets.

I know you'll never see things my way but at least I wish you can come around to seeing that Moore is not a disinterested party who was ignorant of the franchise. You don't have to like what he did to realize he knows what he did.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by antelope526

Dawg:
If Moore changed the names back to one word, Starbuck was a man, and they wore an Egyptian style helmet you would find something else.

If Larson wanted to move Galactica in 1980 to a later time slot and make it for a mature audience exactly what is it other than the one word names and Egyptian style helmet that would have been so different?

I don't worry about which one doesn't like which version. Hatch isn't exactly kind to Desanto's version. Everyone wants THEIR version.

If you wrote a list of all things unique to Battlestar Galactica versus let's say Star Trek I think it would be pretty obvious that Moore's show is in the Galactica universe. BSG1980 is in the Galactica universe also. Be honest what is a better representation of Battlestar Galactica: the Moore version or Larson's BSG1980. Most would pick Moore's version even though BSG1980 has the one word names, some old TOS actors, the word frack, and Egyptian style helmets.

I know you'll never see things my way but at least I wish you can come around to seeing that Moore is not a disinterested party who was ignorant of the franchise. You don't have to like what he did to realize he knows what he did.

Antelope .............. instead of biting the hand that feeds you ...........perhaps
you should be thanking Dawg, Tom and the other moderators for giving you
a place where as a fan of the MINI you are free to post your views how you
see fit.

The fact is whether or not YOU like it. Alot of us here will never Like the way
RDM treated the fans of TOS. Nor should we.

Moore never did anything to the fans. Some of the fans don't like what he did and have personified their frustration.

[Dawg]

OK, let's put the brakes on this right now.

I apologize for adding fuel to this; antelope and I don't see eye to eye on this, and probably never will. I'd like to make him understand why I feel the way I do, and I'm sure he feels the same way - like butting heads against a brick wall, right, antelope?

Well, I just got a phone call that a guy I've known over a year (a client), a real nice guy about my age who's had a rough time of it, collapsed and died last Thursday. Heart gave out. He left a young family.

Kind of makes an argument over a TV show kind of lame, doesn't it?

I'm not going to argue about it any more.

I am
Dawg

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Dawg

OK, let's put the brakes on this right now.

I apologize for adding fuel to this; antelope and I don't see eye to eye on this, and probably never will. I'd like to make him understand why I feel the way I do, and I'm sure he feels the same way - like butting heads against a brick wall, right, antelope?

Well, I just got a phone call that a guy I've known over a year (a client), a real nice guy about my age who's had a rough time of it, collapsed and died last Thursday. Heart gave out. He left a young family.

Kind of makes an argument over a TV show kind of lame, doesn't it?

I'm not going to argue about it any more.

I am
Dawg

I'll keep your friend's family in my prayers Dawg.

[warhammerdriver]

Sigh--another thread twisted into a Moore & Co. slamfest.

I thought this thread was supposed to be about research, not bashing someone.

[warhammerdriver]

Originally Posted by shiningstar

I'll keep your friend's family in my prayers Dawg.

Same here, Dawg.

Dawg:
I understand your points even though I often disagree. Good luck to you as always! I never take things as seriously as they sound in print. I enjoy your post and always know the spirit they are meant. Thanks for your thoughts again. I look forward to your post when your back.

Your friend,
T.J. aka Antelope

[Boomer65]

Shiningstar – I just want to clear something up.

Originally Posted by shiningstar

As for being close minded .........I have EVERY right to watch what I like.
I'm close minded if I deny YOU your right to watch the shows you like.

Close-minded isn’t denying someone else their right to watch a show. Yes, you do have every right to watch what you like. However, closed-minded is not defined as you suggest:

close-mind•ed (klsmndd, klz-) or closed-mind•ed (klzd-)
adj.
Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.

close-minded
adj : not ready to receive to new ideas [syn: closed-minded]

I can’t think of a single movie translation of a comic book that stayed absolutely true to the original. However, some are actually very good – X-Men, Spiderman, etc. IMHO, you’re missing out if you chose not to watch something just because it isn’t 100% true to the original. That’s my 2 cents.

Dawg – I’m sorry to hear of your loss.

[Dawg]

Thank you, all. The call yesterday took me by surprise, the kind of surprise that kind of knocks the wind out of you for a couple of minutes and helps you put things into perspective. Makes you aware of your own mortality.

The sad part of the whole thing is that everything was swinging back in his favor, after a couple of years of really hard times. I'm saddest for his family, of course.

But back to the subject at hand:

Boomer, nobody's asking for 100% compliance with how TOS was portrayed, just like nobody's asking for Richard Hatch to play a 30 year old again. It's a convenient fiction to cite how "many TOS fans" want to pick up where Hand of God left off. That's not what TOS fans asked for.

The overwhelming preference is for a continuation - bring back as many of the original actors in their original roles as possible, elevate them to positions of responsibility (Commander Apollo, for example), and have them mentoring a new generation of warriors; a new generation of central characters. This is what the vast majority of TOS fans would prefer.

However, that same vast majority would have gladly accepted a remake of Saga of a Star World; not a word-for-word, scene-for-scene remake, but one updated for a 2003 audience that also corrects the more glaring errors made in the original. It could have drawn the new audience they were looking for and kept us happy, too.

Kind of like X-men and Spiderman.

I hope that makes it clearer for you.

I am
Dawg

[Boomer65]

Boomer, nobody's asking for 100% compliance with how TOS was portrayed, just like nobody's asking for Richard Hatch to play a 30 year old again. It's a convenient fiction to cite how "many TOS fans" want to pick up where Hand of God left off. That's not what TOS fans asked for.

Actually I was not referring to TOS/BSG03 but rather shiningstar’s refusal to see Spiderman simply because “the movie wasn't absolutely true to the comic book”.

I can actually more understand a TOS fan’s refusal to see the mini because it is, largely, 0% complaint with TOS. However, if RDM manages to bring the new BSG up to a level of quality that meets or exceeds some of the better sci-fi in recent memory I think that there are still going to be a lot of people that won’t watch it simply because they have a grudge. And that’s kind of unfortunate.

Just my opinion but I think the mini is 50 % "In Harm's Way", 30% "Saga of a Star World", 5% the BSG1980 Episode where they introduce human-cylons, and the remaining 15% original Ron Moore ideas. This is obviously a general statement but it is a window into how I see the mini.

The character end state of the mini to me is 60% the end of season 1 TOS, 10% the end of of BSG1980, and about 30% original Ron Moore ideas.

As you can see from the way I look at things I need to give it a chance. Yes it is not the original Battlestar version but it has more than enough to intrigue me and not discard it out of hand.

I have issues with the mini, especially with Kara Thrace and COL Tigh. At this early point however I think they may take their characters in a positive direction. About 4 episodes from now I might have another opinion.

I watched all of BSG1980 when it first ran. I was disappointed but did manage to enjoy three of its episodes. I guess at a minimum I am giving Moore and SCIFI the same opportunity I gave ABC and Larson in 1980. I hope I am not let down again. Thus far the mini though far from perfect was a very positive Galactica experience to me.

Yesterday I read a great post by Aeneas about the history of Baltar not in TOS as presented in various written formats. His post was very thought provoking and I thought, "Man, I wish they did a prequel based on that." His post does not make that the Galactica reality but it sure was a great what if scenario. I look at the mini the same way. It may not be everyones cup of tea and I understand that. I for one actually looked forward to BSG1980 each week and hoped it would move to what I wanted and not be cancelled. I guess its like the old saying about seeing a cup half empty or half full. To me BSG1980 was a cup a quarter full and the mini is three quarters full. I wish they were both full to the top but a thirsty man still takes the cup!

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Dawg

Thank you, all. The call yesterday took me by surprise, the kind of surprise that kind of knocks the wind out of you for a couple of minutes and helps you put things into perspective. Makes you aware of your own mortality.

The sad part of the whole thing is that everything was swinging back in his favor, after a couple of years of really hard times. I'm saddest for his family, of course.

But back to the subject at hand:

Boomer, nobody's asking for 100% compliance with how TOS was portrayed, just like nobody's asking for Richard Hatch to play a 30 year old again. It's a convenient fiction to cite how "many TOS fans" want to pick up where Hand of God left off. That's not what TOS fans asked for.

The overwhelming preference is for a continuation - bring back as many of the original actors in their original roles as possible, elevate them to positions of responsibility (Commander Apollo, for example), and have them mentoring a new generation of warriors; a new generation of central characters. This is what the vast majority of TOS fans would prefer.

However, that same vast majority would have gladly accepted a remake of Saga of a Star World; not a word-for-word, scene-for-scene remake, but one updated for a 2003 audience that also corrects the more glaring errors made in the original. It could have drawn the new audience they were looking for and kept us happy, too.

Kind of like X-men and Spiderman.

I hope that makes it clearer for you.

I am
Dawg

Thank you Dawg. You said it.