Two (relatively) new reviews

[Kester Pelagius]

Greetings All,

Just discovered these forums recently and thought I'd log in and share links to two fine reviews of the new mini-series with everyone. Should round out the list compiled in another thread rather nicely.

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9944.phtml

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9936.phtml

Granted the hubris of happenstance has the first link being to a review I wrote, but the second one is very well done. Short, succinct, and to the point. Mine's a bit. . . longer.

Note: The site to which these reviews were posted is a role-playing related forum. Reviews stay on the front page for only two or three days, thus the direct links. Apologies if my review is a tad lengthy, it at least has hyperlinks to the various sections. The other review provides a good overview of the characters.

So, if you're not tired of reading reviews by now, check them out.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

[shapeshifter]

Here are some excerpts from The New York Times review to compare with the fans' viewpoints:

December 8, 2003, Monday, Section E; Page 10; Column 3
HEADLINE: TELEVISION REVIEW;
The Cylons Are Back and Humanity Is in Deep Trouble
By NED MARTEL

...The producers are even bringing back the title and concept of the short-lived 1978 series, which didn't quite take off as the next "Star Wars" or "Star Trek" but has a legion of fans even today.

...Unlike her precursor, Dirk Benedict, Katee Sackhoff does not steal scenes so much as she merely borrows and returns them. With the gyno-machismo of the pop singer Pink, Starbuck still enjoys a good cigar and sends vibes Apollo's way that are both protective and seductive.

Resexing Starbuck is one of many ways the show's savvy creators mess with the orthodox minds of sci-fi enthusiasts, who often demand strict adherence to original concepts. The producers have made a war movie in sci-fi trappings, and they slip in some arch political themes while viewers are dazzled by blinking lights. ...

...the scenes deliberately evoke Sept. 11 horrors. Another tableau draws on a classic in television-induced dread: Seconds before doom, a lone tow-headed girl plucks at her toy's yellow feathers, in a replica of L.B.J.'s anti-Goldwater "daisy" ad.

Mr. Olmos, as Adama, ...
...rails against humanity for its arrogant creation of a once-servile Cylon population. "We still visit all of our sins upon our children," he says, and his diatribe is meant to remind viewers of the dangers of cloning, colonialism or any paternalistic form of arming future enemies.
...Adama also misleads his minions with mention of a peaceful haven that even he thinks is unattainable. "It's not enough just to live," he explains to his colleague. "You have to have something to live for." And he calls to mind many elusive goals of war efforts in a script that achieves many of its aims to blend realism and fantasy.

"Battlestar Galactica" advances the sci-fi genre and the Sci-Fi Channel by pulling the narrative closer to home. ...
The conclusion is not so much an ending as a pause, awaiting a world of viewers to amass and demand further travels into the beyond. The Sci-Fi Channel might hope that the mini-series will lead to a more extended run, and DVD's of the original series and video-game versions would surely ensue. The project might all be an exploitative departure from the "Battlestar Galactica" brand name, but it's hard not to like where the spacemen (and spacewomen) are going.
...

[Kester Pelagius]

Originally posted by shapeshifter
>>The project might all be an exploitative departure from the "Battlestar Galactica" brand name, but it's hard not to like where the spacemen (and spacewomen) are going.<<

That's kind of funny, in a odd sort of way.

Earth. What's not to like, eh?

Anyone have time to take in the reviews yet?

Comments?

Hmmm... just a comment on the first hour of the series, which was not too well liked in the review (or at least that's the impression that comes across - maybe I'm reading into it).

Yes, the first hour is a little slow on action, but I think a lot is done with the character development that is really necessary for the coherence of the story later. In just that first scene on the Galactica, you are informed of so much, so quickly, that it really helps to watch it more than once:

1) Lee and Adama are estranged, and why.
2) Lee and Starbuck are... something. Friends at least, and comfortable enough with one another to handle some heavy issues.
3) Boomer and Tyrol have a relationship - and this I think got dropped by the final cut. I read the initial draft, and there's a lot more addressed regarding the relationship, the fact that she's his reporting officer, and the dislike of his deck crew because of it. When they cut those extra comments and scenes out, it really does take away from the characters and make it seem a little pointless.
4) William Adama is very well respected by everyone except his son (see #1)
5) Col. Tigh is a drunk, his wife is playing around on him (again, the initial draft made a lot more sense) and he doesn't like Starbuck for an unknown reason - he started out baiting her, and it went from there.
6) Starbuck is our usual troublemaker, and I love the cigars. It made me wonder just what she had to go through to get to Vipers and how much it really cost her.

You also get introduced to all the new characters on the President's ship, and of course the Cylon introduction (Although I agree that the first scene just doesn't work for me - what's the point of kissing the enemy? Why the heck was he kissing her back?). I'm not saying it was all necessary (I have my doubts about the baby-killing scene, but my husband has this theory that she was saving him from the nuclear attack - may be something there), but there was a great deal of character development that (forgive me) the original series just... lacked. The original characters were very one-dimentional to me, and I like the presentation the new characters received in this first hour. I didn't consider it slow at all - I thought there was a ton of information if you were looking for it.

Just my opinion,
-Crys-

[The Rain]

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
Hmmm... just a comment on the first hour of the series, which was not too well liked in the review (or at least that's the impression that comes across - maybe I'm reading into it).

Yes, the first hour is a little slow on action, but I think a lot is done with the character development that is really necessary for the coherence of the story later. In just that first scene on the Galactica, you are informed of so much, so quickly, that it really helps to watch it more than once:

1) Lee and Adama are estranged, and why.

Lee blamed his father for pushing his brother into being a Viper pilot when he was clearly not talented in that way. Adama wanted to believe it. "He passed flight training just like the rest of us." But Lee knew he didn't have it in him. Tara's admission that he flunked flight school but she but passed him anyway(because they were lovers), was like a kick in the balls to Lee.

2) Lee and Starbuck are... something. Friends at least, and comfortable enough with one another to handle some heavy issues.

Almost brother and sister-in-laws. There was no sexual relationship at all. The New York Times was way off on this one.

3) Boomer and Tyrol have a relationship - and this I think got dropped by the final cut. I read the initial draft, and there's a lot more addressed regarding the relationship, the fact that she's his reporting officer, and the dislike of his deck crew because of it. When they cut those extra comments and scenes out, it really does take away from the characters and make it seem a little pointless.

Now THAT makes a lot more sense. Although I kinda got the drift of what the quarrel about the gimbal was about(faked) as I've served in the military and know that fraternization is highly frowned upon. It has to be hidden until marriage... then it's a non-issue.

4) William Adama is very well respected by everyone except his son (see #1)
5) Col. Tigh is a drunk, his wife is playing around on him (again, the initial draft made a lot more sense) and he doesn't like Starbuck for an unknown reason - he started out baiting her, and it went from there.

Could you imagine the backlash if they didn't recast Col. Tigh's character to be a drunk Irishman! HOLY FELDERCARB!! The ACLU would've had a hey day with that one. OY!
I'd love to read the initial draft. Anybody got it?

6) Starbuck is our usual troublemaker, and I love the cigars. It made me wonder just what she had to go through to get to Vipers and how much it really cost her.

The swashbuckle is BACK! And I'm diggin' it. LOL

You also get introduced to all the new characters on the President's ship, and of course the Cylon introduction (Although I agree that the first scene just doesn't work for me - what's the point of kissing the enemy? Why the heck was he kissing her back?). I'm not saying it was all necessary (I have my doubts about the baby-killing scene, but my husband has this theory that she was saving him from the nuclear attack - may be something there), but there was a great deal of character development that (forgive me) the original series just... lacked. The original characters were very one-dimentional to me, and I like the presentation the new characters received in this first hour. I didn't consider it slow at all - I thought there was a ton of information if you were looking for it.

Just my opinion,
-Crys-

YES! The characters were actually 3 dimensional. It was nice for a change. Well written sci-fi if ya ask me.

You can find the script at www.battlestargalactica.com - scroll down to the "mini-series primer", and at that link it's another link almost all the way to the bottom of the primer. They don't seem to have direct links... odd.

It does an awful lot more explaining about the relationships. I know they had to cut a lot for length, but I would rather have had the full original 6 hours and had it all make sense. What am I saying... I'd rather they make it a series and leave us in NO doubt.

Thanks for your views. It's really nice to know I'm not the only one that overthinks this stuff and I may actually be "normal" after all. The comments above weren't really all I found out, just all I figured from that first hour. If you don't have that background, then all the stuff you find out later (the hug between Lee and his dad, Starbuck's confession, the big reunion between Tyrol and Boomer) just seem kinda confusing. Trust me... I know. I missed the first hour taking my son to a cub scout meeting, and had to catch it on the second run. Lost is an understatement.

-Crys-

[Kester Pelagius]

Greetings CrysWimmer,

And a Happy New Year to you!

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
Hmmm... just a comment on the first hour of the series, which was not too well liked in the review (or at least that's the impression that comes across - maybe I'm reading into it).

More or less. It's really the first 15 minutes of the series that require serious re-adjusting, IMHO. The opening scene, cutting room floor.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
Yes, the first hour is a little slow on action, but I think a lot is done with the character development that is really necessary for the coherence of the story later. In just that first scene on the Galactica, you are informed of so much, so quickly, that it really helps to watch it more than once:

Ah, any series that has the caveat statement attached of "it helps to watch it more than once" is either A) too confusing, due to either too much/not enough information presented, or; B) too incoherent, usually due to bad editing.

Of course that's also indicative of sleeper cult classics.

Assuming the worst: To try and dump everything in the lap of the audience in one massive chain reaction of sudden character introductions is, IMO, information overload. It's like cramming for finals while trying to run to class. Doesn't help much.

OTOH: Like you say it gives you a reason to re-watch the show to see what nuances you missed the first time around.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
1) Lee and Adama are estranged, and why.

Yeah, still it felt like something was missing about the Apollo character.

Quite frankly the actor playing Apollo came across, in some scenes, as a whiney arrogant git of a snotty-brat with a chip on his shoulder for no reason. And I was asking myself. . Why!?

Which might be what was intended. You are drawn in enough to question what is going on, even if in a "can't stop watching the train wreck" sort of way.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
2) Lee and Starbuck are... something. Friends at least, and comfortable enough with one another to handle some heavy issues.

I brought it up in another thread but I'll mention it again, the problem here is the overuse of the trope of "ambiguity". Using ambiguity to keep the audience guessed is good, but only up to a point. After that point the audence comes away feeling what they just watched was rushed, at best.

Would have been nice to have the background of Starbuck, and the other characters, properly developed in the first fifteen minutes. The destruction of armistace could have been put at the tail end of the first half-and hour so we could have at least been properly introduced to the characters and had their motivations hinted at.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
3) Boomer and Tyrol have a relationship - and this I think got dropped by the final cut. I read the initial draft, and there's a lot more addressed regarding the relationship, the fact that she's his reporting officer, and the dislike of his deck crew because of it. When they cut those extra comments and scenes out, it really does take away from the characters and make it seem a little pointless.

Exactly. As aired, those scenes are pointless.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
4) William Adama is very well respected by everyone except his son (see #1)

That was actually presented rather well. Still it would have helped if we'd been given some intimation about what was going on with Apollo before the big blow-up scene. As it stands there was no tension, no expectation, no reason for us to *FEEL (sympathy or otherwise) for the characters. Instead we are like: Bwah-huh?

I would have liked to have scene a little more time spent on character development.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
5) Col. Tigh is a drunk, his wife is playing around on him (again, the initial draft made a lot more sense) and he doesn't like Starbuck for an unknown reason - he started out baiting her, and it went from there.

Problem is none of that is in what was aired.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
6) Starbuck is our usual troublemaker, and I love the cigars. It made me wonder just what she had to go through to get to Vipers and how much it really cost her.

Ah, and therein is the problem. Going by the promisory note struck by all the hype there is nothing new or innovative here. It's all standard tropes. They've just used the magic of SF to animate a dead horse.

Why does Starbuck have to be the female who had to fight against a male dominated anything? This isn't earth. Then again we have stereotypical drunk Irishmen, too, so I guess it's a moot question.

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
You also get introduced to all the new characters on the President's ship, and of course the Cylon introduction (Although I agree that the first scene just doesn't work for me - what's the point of kissing the enemy? Why the heck was he kissing her back?). I'm not saying it was all necessary (I have my doubts about the baby-killing scene, but my husband has this theory that she was saving him from the nuclear attack - may be something there), but there was a great deal of character development that (forgive me) the original series just... lacked. The original characters were very one-dimentional to me, and I like the presentation the new characters received in this first hour. I didn't consider it slow at all - I thought there was a ton of information if you were looking for it.

The characters in the original may have been a tad 2-dimensional by some standards, but the acting wasn't. I specifically recall a scene on the Galactica, when Apollo make his way to the bridge during the opening salvos of the Cylon attack. Apollo, Adama, and Tigh getting into a heated discussion. At one point dialoge runs together. I liked that. It wasn't the normal stilted acting of: Recite Lines by Rote. Wait. Let other Actor Recite Lines. Repeat.

Granted some of the later epuisodes were. . . :whistle:


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

[*] Granted the scene was meant to be the "big revelation" sequence to explain what is going on, but as the series was already intent on a plodding pace they might as well have gone the full nine-yards and given us plodding character development as well.

"Quite frankly the actor playing Apollo came across, in some scenes, as a whiney arrogant git of a snotty-brat with a chip on his shoulder for no reason. And I was asking myself. . Why!?" --- Quote

Watch the movie "In Harm's Way". Ensign Jerrod Torrey is the character the mini's Apollo is mainly based on. The whiney arrogant brat Apollo makes total sense after you see this movie. Most of the problems we have with the mini Apollo is a result of our preconceived notions of who Apollo is based on TOS.

If they make a series, Apollo will probably evolve into the Apollo of TOS but the mini is 90% "In Harm's Way".

Originally posted by Kester Pelagius


Exactly. As aired, those scenes are pointless.

I disagree with pointless, but definately incomplete. I'm looking forward to the DVD, as Aaron Douglas has said that most of those cut scenes will be included. I think the movie will be much more coherent when it's "complete". Personally, I think they should have gone with a 3rd night and given us the whole story, but I suppose that would have cost too much. It usually comes down to money, doesn't it?

-Crys-

[Kester Pelagius]

Howdy CrysWimmer,

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
I disagree with pointless, but definately incomplete. I'm looking forward to the DVD, as Aaron Douglas has said that most of those cut scenes will be included. I think the movie will be much more coherent when it's "complete". Personally, I think they should have gone with a 3rd night and given us the whole story, but I suppose that would have cost too much. It usually comes down to money, doesn't it?

Sadly all too true.

Though I am curious. . . in my review I point out how I felt the series ended too abruptly. Has he mentioned if there will more AFTER the ending point, as aired, or will there just be more inbetween bits to expand upon the story?

Either way it's definitely something to keep an eye out for.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

Originally posted by Kester Pelagius
Howdy CrysWimmer,



Sadly all too true.

Though I am curious. . . in my review I point out how I felt the series ended too abruptly. Has he mentioned if there will more AFTER the ending point, as aired, or will there just be more inbetween bits to expand upon the story?

Either way it's definitely something to keep an eye out for.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

I think that's the general idea, either through another miniseries or hopefully a regular series. It's all still up in the air, and from what I understand the deadline for deciding has been moved to the end of January. So maybe we'll know something soon. In any case, I agree that they left if wide open.

-Crsy-

[The Rain]

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
I disagree with pointless, but definately incomplete. I'm looking forward to the DVD, as Aaron Douglas has said that most of those cut scenes will be included. I think the movie will be much more coherent when it's "complete". Personally, I think they should have gone with a 3rd night and given us the whole story, but I suppose that would have cost too much. It usually comes down to money, doesn't it?

-Crys-

I certainly don't understand the nuances of broadcast advertising and revenues but somehow it seems like some basic algebra would be in order here.
Entity 'A' has spent X amount of money on project 'A' under a contract with entity 'B'. Entity 'B' has a line of programs which only bring it Y amount of dollars each. The Y amount is minimal as the programs are not ratings grabbers and the advertising dollars are small. If project X brings in significant increases in those dollars and the time it can aired is increased, WHY NOT DO IT!???

Oh well. In writing this I've found more variables in the equation than my brain wants to deal with right now. Too many beers and shots of tequila plus I'm gettin' ready to go fishin'!

My mind is elsewhere. FISH ON!

I think I'll buy a cigar for tommorows... errr... todays fishin' trip.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kester Pelagius
[B]Howdy CrysWimmer,

"Though I am curious. . . in my review I point out how I felt the series ended too abruptly. Has he mentioned if there will more AFTER the ending point, as aired, or will there just be more inbetween bits to expand upon the story?"

(Haven't figured out the quote box yet---sorry)

The abrupt ending is another point in the shoe horning of Battlestar Galactica into a remake of "In Harm's Way". The Final battle against a numerically superior enemy is identical in both movies to include the recon in the clouds by the Starbuck (Eddington -) character, the fleet screening by the Apollo (Jerrod Torrey) character, the disabling of Apollo's viper (destruction of Jerrod Torrey's PT boat), the FTL jump (victory from defeat), and Adama's speach (Admiral's speach on hospital ship about stomping on to Tokyo).

In the movie "In Harm's Way" no thought was given to a series. The loose ends are all cleared up. Since the setting was World War II the ultimate victory over Japan was a known fact to the viewer. Moore just left us hanging because he had to:
1. Keep all the key characters alive for a series. The equivalent of Starbuck, Apollo, and Boomer all die in battle at the end of "In Harm's Way".
2.The "In Harm's Way" viewer knows he is watching one part of a larger war whose outcome is not in doubt. The mini viewer wants to know how the "war" ends.

The reimagination is really a classic remake but the average Battlestar viewer is confused by the spin of Moore and SCIFI and the fact that the brain is already filtering everything based on TOS. There's a lot less originality in here than people think.

I liked the mini but it is 90% a remake of "In Harm's Way" not "Saga of a Star World".

[Kester Pelagius]

Originally posted by The Rain
I certainly don't understand the nuances of broadcast advertising and revenues but somehow it seems like some basic algebra would be in order here.

Entity 'A' has spent X amount of money on project 'A' under a contract with entity 'B'. Entity 'B' has a line of programs which only bring it Y amount of dollars each. The Y amount is minimal as the programs are not ratings grabbers and the advertising dollars are small. If project X brings in significant increases in those dollars and the time it can aired is increased, WHY NOT DO IT!???

To be slightly facetious, and may even tickle yon funny bone, because. . .

• Because Sciffy is some rich dude's, er I mean Entity "B's" tax shelter?
• Because ours is not to reason why ours it but to ponder the riddle of Entity 'A' and Entity 'B' till our heads explode.
• Because if they were to "Just Do It" they'd get sued by shoe company "N" for IP infringement? *groan*
• Because the second Mr. Mark, er I mean Entity "A", cut their check Entity "B" hired group entity "U" to hack together, er I mean write from scratch, a concept script to show conglomerate "Z" to rake in advertising dollars, which were immediately pocketed by Entity "B", who has skipped the country to go to the Riveria. Thus leaving Sciffy holding the bag, which means they had to hire real writers/producers to quickly cobble together a show with a shoe string budget.
• Because they forgot to not only secure the really lucrative rights to merchandise, but to flood the market with shelf after shelf of free advertising, thus dooming BGtMS to fade into obscurity, whereas BGTOS was kept alive with product after product. . . from toys big and small to board games and computer games. . . entire lines of novels and comic books. . .thus leaving Entity 'B' only solvent "option" to cry in their beer.

Ok... at least ONE of those has to be funny! Right?

Originally posted by Kester Pelagius
To be slightly facetious, and may even tickle yon funny bone, because. . .
[*]Because they forgot to not only secure the really lucrative rights to merchandise, but to flood the market with shelf after shelf of free advertising, thus dooming BGtMS to fade into obscurity, whereas BGTOS was kept alive with product after product. . . from toys big and small to board games and computer games. . . entire lines of novels and comic books. . .thus leaving Entity 'B' only solvent "option" to cry in their beer.[/list]

That's one of the things that has frustrated me to no end. Aside from one magazine (with two different covers, that I've found, available) and the promise of a DVD... that's about it. I'm hopeful that the merchandising will eventually happen, at least minimally. I'm one that likes to collect stuff.

Does anyone out there know of any other Mini collectibles out there?

-Crys-

[Kester Pelagius]

Originally posted by CrysWimmer
That's one of the things that has frustrated me to no end. Aside from one magazine (with two different covers, that I've found, available) and the promise of a DVD... that's about it. I'm hopeful that the merchandising will eventually happen, at least minimally. I'm one that likes to collect stuff.

Actually, for a while there, it felt like the mini-series existed soley to advertise and generate sales for the console video games. I mean even Buck Rogers, which was pretty bad at times, had a TON of tie-ins and merchandise to generate interest.

Then again maybe something is out there and I just blinked and missed it. Anyone see anything besides the magazine? A slurpee cup? Graphic novel adaptation? School folders?