Hey is this true about War Of The Gods?

[KJ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Gods

Colonial Viper squadrons are disappearing from regular patrols, and mysterious bright lights are flying around the Galactica at immeasurable speed. On an eerie, red-glowing planet, the enigmatic Count Iblis * is found, apparently the sole survivor of a major catastrophe. Always shunning the mysterious bright lights, he uses his charm and his supernatural powers to wrest control of the fleet from Adama. *(Iblis means "Satan" in the Arabic language)

When the conclusion episode aired for the very first time, the scene where Apollo, Starbuck and Sheba entered Iblis's crashed ship and found the occupants to be very demon/devil-like (cloven hooves, pointed ears) was shown in audio only. The video was static.

The cloven hooves footage was actually aired! Was it really?!

They say don't believe everything you read or hear about, and god knows info on thw web isn't always proved. But as you know memory can play tricks on you, long ago i thought something was always revealed in that crashed ship. I it possible the footage was shown in other countries in a different version, did an early cut of War Of The Gods reach some small minor broadcasting station we never knew about until now and somebody's seen it.

Over the years there's been two groups of Galactica fans what either believe it was a) "filmed" and then deleted by ABC or it was b) "never" filmed, but the demonic revealation of Count Iblis and his minions was always intended to be "subtly" there in the episode regardless! I myself was told by Jack Stauffer last year of b) and that it was to be later followed up on in season 2 had BG gone that far?

I've heard and read reports from other cast members over the years like the one from Anne Lockhart that a prop was made of the "hoof", but it was "too pathetic" and didn't look alien or scary enough. Or the fact the other dead demons inside the ship were shocking etc? but ABC were said to have cut the scene cos of its satanic implications. considering the years and change in society, if the footage still exists, why isn't it on the DVD?

So is this bit of news on wikipedia.org the truth. Or as per usual on the 'Cloven Hooves' mystery of War Of The Gods a mis-understanding like the Commander Cain and the Pegasus issue being the body inside wreckage and the wrecked ship that people once thought about the episode as well.

Static video with possible scenes of the footage hmmm......?

Discuss people!

Also look on wikipedia under these just to look out for the biblical/metaphorical underpinnings and references of the series characters and names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Iblis

Another god of evil

During their journey to Earth, the Colonial Fleet stopped at a world that had structures upon its surface similiar to the ancient and decaying ruins found on Kobol. Within one of these structures were the bodies of a human male and female, who were kept in a state of suspended animation. Upon being revived, these two individuals identified themselves as Adam and Eve, members of one of the journeying tribes that left Kobol during its final days. Adam remarked that this expedition found itself under attack by an ancient "god of evil", whom he identified as Anubis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iblis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azazel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_Angels

KJ

[BST]

"was shown in audio only. The video was static"

KJ,

Not trying to split hairs but, how can something be viewed "in audio" ?



FWIW, the only part that I remember is Starbuck and Apollo peering inside the other ship and then, stopping Sheba from doing the same.

BST

[KJ]

Originally Posted by BST

KJ,

Not trying to split hairs but, how can something be viewed "in audio" ?

Hey i'm mainly on about the "static part", and for another thing i didn't put the info on there. I'm just reporting it? Whomever probably meant more sound was heard but it was mainly in static meaning it was heard and hardly seen, or whatever?

And like i said, i'm usually with group a) on the issue. The 'Cloven Hooves' scene was blatantly removed judging from the editing and the abrupt cuts made etc. Look at thw way Apollo looks down (as the music kicks in) then he yells Starbuck! Starbuck comes over and barely looks down before we see the expression on his face, thus meaning a few cuts and snipets were made cos the controversial "revealtion scene" was cut out entirely.

KJ

[BST]

....

I'm not in the habit of "shooting the messenger". I just found the reference rather amusing.



At any rate, I have heard that bit about the cloven hooves for years. I never saw it on any occasion that I watched the episode whether it was the initial airing or repeats.

Was it ever aired? I don't think so but, who knows, it may have been aired outside the US or someone may have a bootleg copy of the uncut episode. Anything is possible.

[Dawg]

There was no visual of cloven hooves.

Everyone who has business to know says that no footage was ever shot showing such a scene.

It's been rumored, though - and it's possible that the novelization of the episode did go into that much detail. But for the episode itself, it was left to the imagination what Apollo and Starbuck saw.

I am
Dawg

[KamikazeAthena]

For years I have heard the cloven hoof story. I have also heard that what was found was the remains of Cain. Does this mean that Cain was a demon? Hmmm…….. interesting thought. Remember that we do see Count Iblis in his real form of a demon although he appears as a human. Maybe that is the case with Cain?

What I do know is that in the novel adaptation of War Of The Gods, this is what they find (p. 137)

…”The only visible part of the body was the lower leg, sticking out from underneath the wreckage.
The leg ended in a cloven hoof.
“What the hell is that?” said Starbuck.
“Strange that you should say that,” said Apollo. “I am about to find out just what in hell it is. But unless my imagination is working overtime, I’m afraid that I already have a pretty good idea.”
He bent down and grasped the slab of metal, trying to lift it. It was too heavy. Starbuck slipped on a pair of gauntlets and joined him. Together, they strained and managed to lift the wreckage, tossing it aside.
The body underneath was shattered and burned, but its form was recognizable. It was large, twice as large as a human. It had a head, two arms and two legs, but there any resemblance to human form ended. Its torso, although flattened by the piece of metal that had fallen upon it, was grotesquely large and misshapen. The chest cavity was huge. The fingers ended in talons and there were horns upon its head, sprouting from just above the eyes, which insects had eaten away. The body was in an advanced state of decomposition and the smell was overpowering. In spite of it, both men were rooted to the spot. The thing had hooves. And a long, prehensile tail.”

The novelizations of the scripts often did elaborate on the actual story. So, either this was to be included in the show or someone made it up for the book. The book came out in 1982, which I believe is before people were really talking intensely about what was in the ship. Between this and the story of the sad looking hoof, it looks like this was the plan.

The wreckage really does look like a Battleship, which Sheba does state. Again I have to wonder, was Cain a demon?

[KJ]

Like i said, there are two groups! Galactica fans who believe it was shot and those who believe it wasn't!

Regardless of what was/is said by those from the show! The episode itself is edited haphazzardly once the scene plays itself out. Thus meaning something was removed. Today its hard to fool the audience cos many people are aware of certain things when it comes down to editing a TV show together let alone a scene that was shot.

Progression of a scene, a certain flow, shots lined up from one another etc. If a scene is abrupt or interupted in a particular way. It leans towards either bad editing, or total deletion of a scene that was there and was removed. TV shows that are heavily censored usually give clear signs of editing going on.

The only few times throughout War Of The Gods where the scene jumps is when.

* Count lblis greets Starbuck, Apollo and Sheba in part 1 after they see him on the hill top and he cries out to them. I wouldn't go down there? He suddenly appears before them out of the blue? And does so again in part 2 when he say No, i forbid it! on another hill top.

* When Apollo looks into the wreakage in part 2

* And after we see the Lightship disappear and it cuts to Adama and co at the dinner table. Even after the fade out i always felt that scene cut to Adama's quarters too fast like something was there inbetween first?

Sorry, but i'm in the group that strongly believes something was filmed then cutout. If Anne Lockhart once said there was a puny prop of a "cloven hoof", then i believe her. The novelization only expands upon these events with minor changes here and there?!

Next time Larson or Hatch is at a convention, the question should be asked once and for all about the legendary "Cloven hooves/Demons in the wreckage" scene and also ask why isn't it featured on the DVD of TOS Battlestar Galactica. A set up shot of Iblis in black robes and demonic face was partially seen, so why not the revealation scene which Glen Larson himself says they had a shot of Iblis minons laying in ashes?

Originally Posted by KamikazeAthena

The wreckage really does look like a Battleship, which Sheba does state. Again I have to wonder, was Cain a demon?

Nah, its just the fact this was such a clever episode, that the subtext confused everybody?

* Count Iblis tells Sheba she'll see her father again?

* Apollo saying the wreckage was a big as a Battlestar?

* Adama saying to Iblis, he doesn't believe in him nor did his followers who followed him and perished in the crash!

* The sinister music after they all first leave the crash area in part 1.

* Count Iblis talk with Baltar, which in itself is about the Count moreso than Iblis telling Baltar about the original Reptillian Cylon's fall somewhat (notice that Count Iblis actually lets people fill in the blanks for themselves?)

* It was the white lights that caused the food on the Agroships to grow not Count Iblis. They also probably forced Baltar to submit to the Colonial's justice. Count Iblis just took credit for these things while being on the Galactica, remember he is the Prince Of Darkness and therefore lies and takes the credit for things said or events that transpire anyways unless he himself had the authority and power over someone/something? He only has power if you give it to him, which is kept on asking the colonials to follow him? Which is why he had dominion over Sheba and a right to kill her cause she followed him literary even without knowing who he truly was.

Cain wasn't in the wrecked ship, although for years people thought it was Cain and the Pegasus. Even though he is mentioned again in 'Hand Of God' breifly by Sheba (You think Apollo and Starbuck would lead Sheba, Adama and crew on, if they knew Cain was long dead back on the Red Planet where they found Iblis in WOTG? When Sheba mentioned her father) what bastards if they did.

Just like some fans like to read the script for "Wheel Of Fire" as the sequel to Return Of Starbuck! I've always felt Adam Stacey's fictional second season BG script "Reign Of Evil " and the 3 part "The New Threat" to be the sequel to War Of The Gods! As they introduce the minions of the evil Count. Who have ships in their fleet which was one, that crashed in that very episode.

The Satyr League!

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

Terrence McDonnell, at the 15 Yahren Con was quite emphatic on the point that a scene was shot but censored by ABC before airing so it was not in the final cut. I believe McDonnell because listening to him in the rest of the panel he was part of, he had the most fantastic power of recall about the events of that time than anyone else who was at that Con.

[Charybdis]

I am of the opinion that the scene was shot but was not up to par (hence the cheap looking cloven hoof, etc.) and because of this and the sensors when they saw what they were doing with it, cut it out of the final show...if what Eric says is true, then there was a scene shot with this footage in it...

[mocha2112]

I was always under the impression it was in the original script but never filmed. I thought one of the writers once said ABC struck again and cut the scene before they ever had the chance to roll film on it. (shrug)

ok... bye...

[Dawg]

I just noticed this was in the News section - should be here in Discussion.

Carry on!



I am
Dawg

[KJ]

Originally Posted by mocha2112

I was always under the impression it was in the original script but never filmed. I thought one of the writers once said ABC struck again and cut the scene before they ever had the chance to roll film on it. (shrug)

ABC, they sure did have their ups and down doing BG didn't they? Some choices they made were good, but the majority was mainly poor.

Originally Posted by Charybdis

I am of the opinion that the scene was shot but was not up to par (hence the cheap looking cloven hoof, etc.) and because of this and the sensors when they saw what they were doing with it, cut it out of the final show...if what Eric says is true, then there was a scene shot with this footage in it...

Which always leads to the big question of why it wasn't included in the Galactica DVD? Didn't some guy run around several dozen networks and studios, getting the extra materials for the DVD's. If he managed to locate 'stunt double guy' in a black version of Count Iblis costume. Then how come he didn't locate the Cloven Hooves footage Glen Larson confirms was shot in the 8 minute Galactica intro on the complete series DVD.

Also didn't those who attended Galacticon, say there was almost a running 'gag' with one of the panels. Where fans kept asking about the 'Cloven Hooves' scene? Which doesn't ever seem to die down in Galactica fandom! And every 'johnny come lately' heading to the discussion asked the question every 5 minutes?

Originally Posted by Dawg

I just noticed this was in the News section - should be here in Discussion.

Carry on!

Thought this was news? Anyways, but yeah it makes for great discussion and thensome.

One day all surviving TOS cast members and crew along with Glen Larson, need to clear the air together on stage at a convention once and for all, so there's no more mis-information. And say what was what, in regards to War Of The Gods period! Perhaps at the 30th anniversary Battlestar Galactica convention in the next 2 years or so?

KJ

[Charybdis]

I guess this keeps going because nobody associated with the production of BSG ever really answers the question and then you get actors and producers saying different things!

Perhaps some things we were never meant to know because they were so trivial at the time no one thought that hundreds and thousands of people 30 years later would be asking about what happened back in 1978?

[KJ]

Agreed!



KJ

[Pegasus4]

I saw Anne Lockhart at a con once and she talked about this episode. She said her character did look (meaning what we saw was probably one of those many rewrites the show had) and what she saw looked like sheep and she thought it was a horrible looking prop.

She also said that Count Iblis told her on the agro ship that the light orbs couldn't harm her as long as he was inside her (big laugh from us in the audience) but the ABC censors went ballistic. That scene's on the DVD. I think she says it on the DVD in an interview.

Speaking of devils this episode is the last appearance of the robot dog.

[KJ]

This is exactly what i mean.

Both Larson and Anne say it was Cloven Hooves. whereas last year i was talking to Jack Stauffer who made his last appearence as Bojay in the episode. And he said you weren't meant to see what was inside as it was more or less referenced Count Iblis was a devil and he had demonic followers?

Which still doesn't make sense cos the subtly of the revealtion scene was still way too little for people to firm this outright (which led to the Commander Cain rumor instead for years afterwards) And no offence to Mr Stauffer who i found at last year's Birmingham convention to be Dirk Benedict's equal far as humor and being a great entertaining and knowledgable person. But he only appears in part 1 few a few minutes before leaving season 1 to move on to do other acting jobs (didn't Larson plan on bringing him back for season 2 at some point?) Did he stick around to see the filming of the 'Red Planet' scene out of curiousity or just hear of what happened partially and wasn't fully informed.

It's like that game in school where you sit in a large circle of friends and pass on a story in the next person's ear. By the time it comes back to the orginator, the story's either altered somewhat or changed completely for whatever reason. Unlike saying the other metaphorical story where people are around the same 'elephant' but have a different point of view cos of where they happen to be around said elephant, everyone was supposed to have the same information about this episode cos we were supposed to witness the same revealation scene which ABC messed around with cos of several uncertain Satanic implications (then why have a villain in the story who revealed to be a Fallen Angel i.e. The Devil/Satan anyways?).


ABC combined with Standards and Practices really messed up alot of TV shows in the 70's not just Battlestar Galactica and science fiction television series in particular!

I don't expect another TOS Galactica DVD re-release to have the deleted Cloven Hooves scene or the props of the Count Iblis minions i.e. demon's corpses inside the wreckage at this point. However since actors love doing cons these days, i think the next big huge get together of the Galactica cast and crew with Larson in tow. Ought to put this dog to rest once and for all, some mysteries just need that conclusion to stop endless fan debate its been a fun ride, but in a way i'm kinda sick of the same obviousness of this episode having so many spin off explanations from fans that it just doesn't make talking about it for too long, any much interesting that it was long ago.

The recent DVD's addressed it (but hasn't shown it outright? ), The Berkley novel of he same name as the episode "FIRST" brought it up outright however!, Steven Simak's Battlestar Galactica article in Sci-Fi Universe magazine back in 1995 long ago addressed it, Maximum Press' Galactica comic book story 'War Of Eden' also in 1995 brought's its attention to many more fans who forgot about it (including myself) with a picture on two pages and all (that i've put up on the WOTG episode page?), fanfiction tries to continue it on many levels, and only "Galactica Sci-Fi TV Show Revisited" book goes on about the long "debunked" Cain rumor (besides that and a few other errors it still a great book anyhow?).

With all this out there, there really isn't much of a doubt what was inside that wrecked starship! And just like Adam Stacey's fanfic, it would've been great if Glen Larson wrote and introduced the minions of Count Iblis as a menace even greater than that of the Cylon Empire in season 2 that threatens the very existance of both the Colonials and Cylons alike!

Count Iblis: There are far greater adversaries in the universe than your Cylons and all their allies combined!

Most probably a reference to his demonic minions? Or greater still, other fallen Angel's from the Lightship? If the episode references the 'War in Heaven' and fall of Lucifer, then Iblis got others on the Lightship to rebel as well. As they did in the bible and they too were also cast out, ones that were immortal like himself perhaps? Adama probably makes aware to us that during his time in our universe Iblis might have corrupted some mortals who knew little of him to follow him? Which might explains the crashed ship somewhat, i don't know that exactly per se, thats just one theory? The devil lies and manipulates and destroys innocent lives which is the root of his true power! Which War Of The Gods shows brilliantly in Count Iblis.

Think we'd all have "loved" to have seen an official sequel to War Of The Gods had the series continued in season 2! Cos we all know just like Star Trek and Star Wars. Battlestar Galactica had untapped potential to compete with any other sci-fi TV series and movie out there with its fantasy/sci-fi action space adventure concepts!

KJ