A *small* fan base?

[Michael Hinman]

Originally posted by TwoBrainedCylon
Which specific children or playgrounds are you referring to Hinman? Can you clear this up please? I'm not really sure what this was supposeed to mean.


Two-Brain

You're a bright guy. You figure it out.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I'm not that bright. I'm still trying to figure out how an open theft can be interpreted as anything but stealing.

You're always anxious to explain things. Why the reluctance in this case?

Two-Brain

You're a bright guy. You figure it out.

Mr. Hinmann,

Please do not bring your gripes from other boards here. They are not wanted, nor welcome. Thank you for your cooperation.

SCIFI always seems to follow great nautical books and movies. Moore may have picked the names from Battlestar Galactica but most of the characters are lifted straight out of the World War II naval classic movie, "In Harm's Way". Since Moore and crew didn't credit the movie it would be nice if he found a way to give a name or call sign to someone in a future episode as a way of paying homage. I am surprised this subject isn't mentioned much. The mini is more a remake of "In Harm's Way" than "Saga of A Star World". The setting is Galactica not the story. How about making "Cain" the call sign of Commander Rockwell Torrey, captain of the Battlestar Pegasus. That would be fitting.

Gemini1999: Thanks for the welcome! We are practically neighbors.

When I was deployed in the Army during Desert Shield/Storm the LTs acquired nicknames used by their peers. In some cases they were derivations of their real names. In some cases they they applied to real life incidents or personality traits. Three examples with totally different derivations were:

Lancer -- Officer who had a first name of Lance.
Heater -- Officer who was known for his cruelty in peacetime to his soldiers by not letting them run their heaters in tracked vehicles during training in the winter.
Homer -- Officer who told a humorous story about his times in college and ended up with a nickname based on a rhyme in the story referred to as "Homer the Hooter Hater". Partly based on Homer Simpson.

In other words, don't worry about "Starbuck". Maybe one day we will hear Kara's story if they make a series.

Originally posted by Darth Marley
I like many of the reruns.But I don't get the reruns I would really like...Blake's 7,Dr. Who,even the short lived Sword of Justice,though it really wasn't sf.I don't think Knight Rider is sf.

Yeah, neither do I. I loved Knight Rider as a kid, but that was the 80's, when fast cars and that hairstyle were the In thing. I just can't get into it anymore. The whole concept seems silly to me. (Interesting though that its another Glen Larson project)

I don't even have cable anymore... Comcast moved in and took over AT&T Broadband, and moved their prices from $40 a month for digital cable to about $67. Now there's a felgercarbty company. They pulled all their US Call Center contracts too and moved them over to India. Thanks to them, my best friend is out of a job. I hope that company goes bankrupt.

I'm hoping that this summer I can move into a place where I can get Dish Network. I've always liked them. If you get the Superstation package, you can watch Angel like three times on Wednesday.

But at any rate... I was none too imrpessed with Scifi's lineup back when I had it either. I had heard from people that Farscape was pretty good, but I've never been a Friday night TV watcher so I could never catch it. I really wasn't happy that they dropped MST3K. But then thats one of those shows, you get kind of tired of it after a while.

I can remember when it first came on the air and they had Buck Rogers. Now theres a show they should bring back, or re-imagine. Show of hands, how many Buck Rogers fans here?

I can remember seeing shows on that channel that I never would have imagined existed... REAL scifi if you ask me.

Actually that reminds me, we do have one thing to thank Scifi for... The re-airing of Battlestar Galactica classic. I'd have never known about the show if they hadn't done all those Thanksgiving day marathons.

I dunno. I don't harbor any ill intent towards the Scifi-Channel... How could I, I want to see this thing go series. But I can see a lot of your points... Their lineups have been pretty gay. (Scare Tactics anyone?)

[BST]

They pulled all their US Call Center contracts too and moved them over to India. Thanks to them, my best friend is out of a job. I hope that company goes bankrupt.

A lot of companies are doing this, Mike, and it's a damn shame. They're only paying these people "pennies", in other countries, and taking away good paying, primary household income jobs from folks in this country. My condolences go out to your friend. I KNOW what your friend went through!

On the Skiffy issue, I think that they would be best served by a return to their core which, based on the name, should be Sci-Fi. They've gotten too far away from that. While it's necessary to bring out new shows, to build and maintain viewership, it's also important to recognize what got you there, in the first place, and to give those shows prominence as well. I don't think very much of Bonnie Hammer's abilities when she makes remarks like "getting away from shows that are too 'sci-fi' ". Did she forget the name of her network?

MTV hardly ever plays music, SCIFI is now the part time SCIFI channel and TLC is now the home improvement channel with TLC programming when they run out of "Trading Spaces". It seems like more and more all the cable networks forget their roots and try to latch onto the show of the moment (Scare Tactics is a good example--How the hell is that SCIFI?).

Why can't MTV just play music like they did during their early years? Why can't SCIFI play the limitless variety of SCIFI already out there when they aren't developing new SCIFI shows? Between Battlestar TOS, all the Star Trek incarnations, all the anime SCIFI, the thousands of SCIFI movies out there, Buck Rogers, all the Stargate, Farscape, Babylon 5, Dune, and the new Battlestar I just can't understand what goes through their minds. Their only question is what old stuff do we want to drop this year so we can make some room for a new series or two.

[Dennis]

Same answer for both: costs versus return. When the novelty went out of music videos, MTV and VH1's viewership took a downturn. SciFi does better with their current programming than with the programming they were running three years ago, and so forth.

[Yminale]

What I like to know is why people still believe in destructive nihilism (to be honest I am as guilty as everybody else). If Sci-Fi fails what incentive is there to do another channel dedicated to science fiction and fantasy. Look at Dr. Who. The fans got their wish and the series was cancelled. Now it's comming back re-imagined and the fans are all up in arms. Personally I think Sci-Fi does a decent job. Sure they do thing that are stupid (cancelling Farscape, John Edwards, endless horror films), but they do a lot of good (Stargate, Taken, Dune mini-series). I think one of the problems with modern science fiction is that it's become too insular and to smug with itself, therefore it's a good thing to get a wider audience.

[Darth Marley]

Originally posted by Mike Wright
Their lineups have been pretty gay. (Scare Tactics anyone?)

If I want to ogle Shannon Dougherty,I'll pop in my VHS copy of Heathers,or tune in Charmed reruns.

Still,I did see a demographic breakdown that showed Scare Tactics bringing in the adolescent audience.

[callsignfalcon]

The only reason I deem sci-fi not needing to be canceled is Stargate... and a possible future for BSG on its channel. Of course I do hold a gruge for them canceling farscape...

As for Nick names, my online nick for the most part is: Falcon-Rider , which I derived from a book series I read once and wrote a fanfic for. I have other friends with names that can be considered a 'male' name that are female. Really it doesn't seem to matter to me what the nick is as long as it fits them from a conversation, or a personallity trait. Or perhaps their obsessed with something.

I like the comments about Star Trek, it really needs a rest. I am a fan of the mini and think it is where BSG needs to be today. I watched the original when it was on, enjoyed it, and was sad when it was canceled. But I think it would be a mistake to try and revive it now, especially with the original cast.

[Corwwyn]

Originally posted by sleer
But I think it would be a mistake to try and revive it now, especially with the original cast.

Yeah, it didn't work for Star Trek after all, oh wait...

[koenigrules]

Yeah- Star Trek worked well for the first 3-4 movies, but boy, as they aged- it was getting tiring to see how they could evade anyone or anything. One was wondering when they would die. Oh I forgot, one did (Kirk)!
On a whole, they looked like Captain Pike in Menagerie!
A younger cast is the way to go as the demos are not in the 60 plus age range.

[Dennis]

"Star Trek" had a much larger fan base interested in the original actors, the revival got on track in less than a decade (effectively, 1977 when folks started getting signed to contracts) and all of the performers were alive.

Yeah- Star Trek worked well for the first 3-4 movies, but boy, as they aged- it was getting tiring to see how they could evade anyone or anything. One was wondering when they would die. Oh I forgot, one did (Kirk)!
On a whole, they looked like Captain Pike in Menagerie!
A younger cast is the way to go as the demos are not in the 60 plus age range.

I can understand your point. Althought I think ST 6 was pretty good. But consider this. The movies really served to transition the fans to The Next Generation, which DID feature a younger cast. So the question is, would the trekkers have welcomed the Next Generation without first getting some sense of closure with the original cast? Maybe, but not likely. I think it would have been much harder to move on with a younger cast and sell it to the fans, without first transitioning with the original characters.

The reason I say this is because as I recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, The Motion Picture was actually initially a production for a new TV show with a new cast, and that's what spurned on the campaigns for the original cast.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Dennis,

How do you measure a fanbase for a cancelled show? I know there are a lot of claims that there are lots of BSG fans and other claims that there are only a handful of BSG fans but in reality, how can that be measured and what's the criteria for a fan?

When I hear about a large Trek fanbase that brought back the series I wonder who anyone knew it was large and whether anyone knows if the TNG audience was composed primarily of the original fans or new fans that flocked to it and then warmed up to the original.

Sandy

[Darth Marley]

It would be interesting for a trek historian to chime in about the old Save Trek efforts.

What strikes me as strange about the ongoing BSG controversies is the effort to downplay the "enemy side" of the argument.

Clearly,by the various petition drives,the are tens of thousands of outraged BSG fans rebelling against the RDM version.This is most likely the vocal minority,and by this I mean there are likely many thousands that share that view but are not activist fans.

It is hard for me to judge just how many RDM fans like myself are out there.Best test of that would be ratings for an RDM series.

I imagine with Trek,there were some "focus group" types of surveys.And of course,there was the animated series.I am sure there is someone in "the business" that can come forward with a brief on how these decisions are reached from a production point of view,and I bet you would know just who to ask among your contacts in the biz.

I have my own reasons for favoring the RDM effort vs an original cast continuation.Others seem to share that view,but I am at a loss about how to gauge that support short of ratings for a new series.

[Darth Marley]

Originally posted by jjrakman
The reason I say this is because as I recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, The Motion Picture was actually initially a production for a new TV show with a new cast, and that's what spurned on the campaigns for the original cast.

That was my recall on the subject.I thought it was a script for a TV movie that got bumped to theatres after the success of SW.I think there were contracts for a series on the cast selections before filming got underway.

[The Rain]

I was never really in the business nor am I a Trek historian. But I am a life long fan of the show.
The original show's pilot was shot in 1964 which the studio rejected. They recasted it and made a second pilot in '65 titled " Where No Man Has Gone Before". That was accepted by the network and the show premiered in September of '66 with "The Man Trap". It was actually cancelled due to cost and ratings after it's second season ended. But a letter writing campaign started by a gal named Bjo Trimble got it a third season. Still, the ratings weren't high enough and NBC cancelled it for good. The animated series was done in the early 70's. I don't remember exactly what year. Through repeats the original show found an audience. Fans started conventions all over the U.S. I went to my first around '75 or '76. It was just before Logan's Run came out. Pre-production started in '78 for a new series called Star Trek: Phase Two. That turned into the first movie. The last original cast movie was released in 1992, 23 years after the series was cancelled.

The original Galactica series was cancelled in '79. It's been 24 years. Personally, I don't much see the point in a continuation story. Sure you bring back Benedict and Hatch but... as what? I can't see anything other than the Captain and XO. On that note... Boxey in command!?! C'mon, even Hatch didn't like that idea.
Still, if a movie is made, what the frak, I'll go see it.

[Darth Marley]

Originally posted by The Rain
I was never really in the business nor am I a Trek historian

Man,did you stay in a Holiday Inn Select last night,or what?

[The Rain]

Originally posted by Darth Marley
Man,did you stay in a Holiday Inn Select last night,or what?

Damn, busted again. :laugh:

[Dennis]

Originally posted by TwoBrainedCylon
Dennis,

How do you measure a fanbase for a cancelled show? I know there are a lot of claims that there are lots of BSG fans and other claims that there are only a handful of BSG fans but in reality, how can that be measured and what's the criteria for a fan?

When I hear about a large Trek fanbase that brought back the series I wonder who anyone knew it was large and whether anyone knows if the TNG audience was composed primarily of the original fans or new fans that flocked to it and then warmed up to the original.

Sandy

Good questions.

Paramount felt that they had a fairly good estimate of the fandom for Trek in the 1970s based on a number of things.

Bear in mind that fan-to-fan communication in the 1970s was not what it is now -- the only effective ways to communicate about upcoming events or campaigns were based on Postal mailing lists, telephone trees, newsletters and local advertising via flyers, etc.

-- Merchandise sales of toys, comics, novels, magazines and so forth based on the original series.

-- Ratings in local markets for the original series, which was running pretty constantly in syndicated strip fashion on hundreds of local unaffiliated television stations around the U.S.

-- The constancy and volume of letters the studio received over a period of years asking for a revival of the series. Again, in a time when letter-writing campaigns had to be organized mainly by mail and person-to-person communication, a steady flow of mail from a lot of (apparently) unique addresses mattered a good deal more than such things do now.

-- Attendance at Star Trek conventions. These events sprang into existence full-blown in the early 1970s; locally-organized and publicized events often drew thousands of attendees, and that kind of response continued through most of the 1970s.

That's leaving aside all of those "spontaneous" expressions of collective enthusiasm for the series that didn't directly impact the series itself or the studio that owned it, such as the campaign to have the first U.S. space shuttle named "Enterprise".

All of this activity, TTBOMK, started to tail off toward the end of the 1970s. By that time Paramount was pretty much committed to figuring out a way to revive the series in some way or another and therefore jump-start the merchandise sales and enhance the value of their television syndication contracts (many local stations had nailed TOS down for ten years, at relatively low rates, at the beginning of the 1970s. Those contracts would be up, "coincidentally", around 1979).

All of that said, the best estimates (IMAO) I've seen for "hard core" Trek fandom in the late 1970s were about three to four million people in the U.S. Interestingly enough, that's about the same number of folks who still watch "Star Trek Enterprise" every week. :lol:

TNG is a different matter -- many, many people watched that series that had never been interested in "Star Trek" before, never bought a ticket to a Trek movie or bought Trek merchandise. Ratings indicated a weekly audience averaging over twelve million viewers a week; some estimates (including the second weekly airing of new episodes that was permitted by Paramount's contracts with the stations running the show) placed the weekly audience at twenty million viewers. From the studio's POV, TNG is the "gold standard" for "Star Trek". That huge audience (for a weekly scifi series) began to disintegrate when TNG left the air, and has dropped steadily year-by-year ever since 1994 regardless of which spinoff (DS9, Voyager or Enterprise) one looks at the ratings for.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Dennis,

Thanks. That was a great explaination.

Sandy