Aten-the sun-disc

[LZaza]

This is for you history buffs.

Remember the scene in the Lost Planet of the Gods where Adama uses his Seal of the Lords of Kobol to enter the tomb of the ninth Lord? He inserts his medallion into the hole where beams of light are illustrated shooting out below it.

Well, I stumbled upon the symbol while doing a little research for my latest fanfic. It turns out that that very same symbol in Egyptian history is for Aten, the god and disc of the sun.

http://katherinestange.com/egypt/aten.htm

[WarMachine]

Yep - associated to King Tut's father Ahkhenaten (note the '-aten' suffix) and his Queen -- Nefertiti......

[LZaza]

Did a search and found your prequel involving Aten, Michael. Nicely done. Recognized a little Bible, a little Hoagland, a little Sitchin, a little Marrs . . .

[Ramses]

that was considered the first attempt at a monotheistic religion. which didnt go over to well with the ancient priest hood or the people for that matter.

That particular symbol has been found in other places and older as well. or at least variants of it. thats one of the reasons I used to love BSG. I was really into Ancient history then and know.

[LZaza]

Yes, I noticed it looks a lot like the "All-Seeing eye". Which is usually mentioned as being inspired by the Eye of Horus.

[KJ]

Excellent thread LZaza!

Galactica was well researched far as all the little tipbits of motifs and references go, the mythological/fantasy parts certainly make it the "Lost" of its day with all the ancient Egyptian themes and whatnot within BG's makeup. God only knows what Glen Larson would've done or created had the series continued at the time with the Kobollian mythology that was set up in the pilot, WOTG's and LPOTG's.

And only 'NOW' do writers and producers of television series saddle their shows with fantasy elements and motifs basing them on old Earth legends etc.





Beautiful to know that so much was researched for Galactica which only lasted one season back in 78/79. Makes you think with all these puzzles coming together over the show over time, that, all this information ought to be saved by us and made/converted into some sort of DVD Battlestar themed based project by Galactica's fandom doesn't it. Sorted out and properly labed in chapters and such, we could well have our own documentary that taps into the series and how it was put together as such!

Food for thought!

Seriously though, once again neat well sought out news article clip LZaza you should be commended for your efforts!



KJ

[LZaza]

Thanks, KJ. Wasn't much of an effort, though. Just stumbled upon it while doing other research.

Weirdly, the same day I also found a reference to a book called The Book of the Words by Albert Pike in 1877. Of course, I was struck by the similarity to the Book of the Word, the Colonial Holy Book. At the time, as I said above, I had already noticed the similarity between the All-Seeing Eye, commonly seen in Masonic symbology, and the Aten. Coincidentally, the Book of the Words is written by a well-known Freemason. It was interesting to me especially as I'm looking for links for my story with ancient secret societies that I'm trying to trace back to the Thirteenth Tribe and Kobol. Here we are with two coincidences, which is enough to kick start any respectable conspiracy theory these days. Admittedly, I was a little disappointed to find on further pursuit of the topic that the book by Pike is also called the Book of the Words and their Ancient Masonic Meanings. I'm not sure if it was written with the former title (as I've seen on the PDF edition) and then later changed to the latter version for clarification . . . and possibly to thwart eager BSG fanfiction writers seeking to insert Count Iblis into a plot line.

Oh well. It's always interesting.

[Senmut]

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Yep - associated to King Tut's father Ahkhenaten (note the '-aten' suffix) and his Queen -- Nefertiti......

Nefertiti ("The Beautiful One is come") was also known in some cartouches as Neferneferuaten ("Aten most beautiful', or "Beauty of the Aten").

[Senmut]

Originally Posted by Ramses

that was considered the first attempt at a monotheistic religion. which didnt go over to well with the ancient priest hood or the people for that matter.

That particular symbol has been found in other places and older as well. or at least variants of it. thats one of the reasons I used to love BSG. I was really into Ancient history then and know.

If one digs, you find that Egypt was, long before Unification, monotheistic. Polytheism developed later. Even into later times, Egyptians sometimes made reference to "God" without qualification. FWIW.
Egypt's power-blocks were too tied to the staus quo to ever accept Akhenaten's newfangled ways. The people didn't like them because, if there is ONLY the Aten, and he is worshipped through the Pahraoh, what about the ancestors? Is there still an afterlife, where they live on in the Fields of the Blessed? Akhenaten had no answers for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aten_disk.jpg

Monotheism has existed since time immemorial, it had just never been elevated to a national faith before.
One wonders if the Hebrews in Egypt became anathema because of connections to Akhenaten's revolution? There are Hebrew names in government in the previous reign, one being a Vizier named Aper-el.
Hhmm...

[Lara]

The Aten religion also removed the people from direct worship: only the royal family could commune with the god (touched by the little hands at the end of the rays) Everyone else got the glory of his reflection. It also put priests out of work. More unfortunately it disturbed the temple system, and when combined with a revision of the temple and royal estates, shifted power within a major engine of the economy and made enemies of a system that fed the people.

There had been a solar cult since the earliest expressions of faith, and it had been pretty exclusive to the king and his divinity, but this one was a little too esoteric and declared all the local gods defunct. A certain recipe for mass disquiet.

Thames and Hudson published an excellent book called The Cult of Ra by Stephen Quirke which looks at the many forms of sun worship in ancient Egypt
In it Akhenaten is described as the 'exclusive son', not just son of ra as all other kings had been.

Cheers,
Lara

[Damocles]

If one digs, you find that Egypt was, long before Unification, monotheistic...

Source? I need to fill in a gap in my education.

D.

[Senmut]

Originally Posted by Damocles

Source? I need to fill in a gap in my education.

D.

Sorry to take so long getting back to you.
At the mo, I am quoting from memory. An old Egyptology book, presently moldering somewhere in this dump. The term I was thinking of "...a blast of God smote us", occurs in a New Kingdom text, referring to the Hyksos invasion. I don't remember who by, now.
I shall have to mount an expedition and excavate!

[KJ]

Always love the research style discussions on CF's about BG's motifs and whatnot. Seriously think we should put a DVD together covering BG's background or that amount of research the creators when into while developing it for television. Always said the Galactica websites have a good layed webpage covering her inner workings, so all one has to do is head up a division of people(s) on here put into groups working on gathering all the parts of the series' segments. And place all this information into a well made documentary of sorts for DVD and ta'da!

Cross-referencing all the info and having any such DVD be well researched enough with a narrative (illustrated through DVD's clever usages) outlining how each of the ancient Earth legends were cleverly referenced in the classic show itself, by saying what legend or myth was put into an episode or giving plausible reasons behind the way Larson & Co made their subtle nods to ancient Earth motifs for example.

Sweet idea if it can ever be realised by us lot, i reckon!

KJ

[Damocles]

Originally Posted by Senmut

Sorry to take so long getting back to you.
At the mo, I am quoting from memory. An old Egyptology book, presently moldering somewhere in this dump. The term I was thinking of "...a blast of God smote us", occurs in a New Kingdom text, referring to the Hyksos invasion. I don't remember who by, now.
I shall have to mount an expedition and excavate!

http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/hyksos.html

Hyksos

Manetho states "during the reign of Tutimaos a blast of God smote us, and unexpectedly from the regions of the East, invaders of obscure race marched in confidence of victory against our land. By main force they easily seized it without striking a blow; and having overpowered the rulers of the land they then burned our cities ruthlessly, razed to the ground the temples of the gods, and treated all the natives with a cruel hostility, massacring some and leading into slavery the wives and children of others... Finally, they appointed as king one of their number whose name was Salitis. He had his seat in Memphis, levying tribute from upper Egypt.. In the Saite nome he founded a city.. and called it Auaris". He named these invaders the "Hyksos" which he translated as "shepherd kings" although now the term is often translated as "foreign rulers" or "desert princes".

The Hyksos were composed of a number of Semitic peoples driven from Western Asia into Africa by instability and famine during the Second Intermediate Period (Dynasties Thirteen to Seventeen). They appear to have established themselves in Lower Egypt where they ruled from the city of Avaris for about two hundred years. Their invasion of Egypt was a highly traumatic event for the Egyptian people.

Thutimaos is generally thought to be the obscure Thirteenth Dynasty king Dudimose (the other kings with a similar reign are too late to be contenders) who reigned shortly before or concurrently with the Hyksos Dynasty at Avaris. The passage is ambiguous, but it may refer to two events; the smiting by God, and the invasion of the Hyksos. It was previously thought that one reason for their ease in conquering upper Egypt was that they had chariots (unlike the Egyptians) and were exceptional archers. There is some evidence that the Egyptians already had chariots, but they may well have been less experienced in their use. More speculatively, you could argue that the smiting by god left Egypt undefended, allowing the Hyksos to take control "without striking a blow".

The Hyksos did indeed sack Memphis, but the description of their attitude to the gods could be anti-Hyksos propaganda, after all they took Seth as their main god while retaining their worship of Astarte (the Phonecian mother-goddess) and Reshep (a Phoenician storm god). Furthermore, the Hyksos adopted Egyptian customs and even preserved Egyptian culture. Apophis, the fifth Hyksos king, instructed scribes to copy Egyptian texts so they would not be lost. Because of his foresight we have recovered priceless documents such as the 'Edwin Smith Surgical Papyrus' (the oldest known surgical handbook), the "Westcar Papyrus" and "the Rhind Mathematical Papyrus" (the most important document describing Egyptian mathematical theory).

Some of the Hyksos may have been Hurrian or Hittite, but no firm evidence has been discovered to confirm their origins fully. They were by no means the first Asiatics to settle in Egypt, prompting some to suggest that there was no major battle, just a steady influx of settlers who worked themselves into positions of power while retaining their own cultural differences. Evidence from the excavation at Tell el-Dab'a, confirms that the settlement was constantly evolving and changing as the new cultures adapted to the Egyptian way of life. Settlements discovered in Tell el-Ajjul (southern Palestinian), Ebla (Syrian) and Byblos (Lebanon) share many characteristics with the settlement at Tell el Dab´a.

The Hyksos brought with them knowledge of bronze weapons, chariots and composite bows. But it is not clear that they were required to use this military know-how to take control of upper Egypt. Certainly they had to fight to keep power, but Manetho may be right to infer that there was no initial battle for dominance. This supports the suggestion that immigration and the political weakness of the Egyptian kings of the time had set up the environment to allow a group to seize power relatively easily.

Given this slow advance by the Hyksos rulers into southern Egypt, it seems reasonable to infer that the superior military technology of the Hyksos was only an element of their strength. Their success may also have relied upon their exploitation of the political weakness of the late Middle Kingdom. Another intriguing possibility exists. It is possible that the whole area was blighted by plague (was this god smiting?) and that the Hyksos were badly affected by this too. Thus they took over during a time of crisis and were unable to push further into Egypt because they too were suffering the effects of the plague.

A stele placed by the Seventeenth Dynasty king Kamose marks Hermopolis as the southern boundary of the Hyksos kingdom, but it is thought that they held sway as far as Cusae. However, although they did not control all of lower Egypt, the rulers there were reduced to the status of vassals until Sanakhtenre Tao I launched the rebellion. Yet Southern, or Upper Egypt was reduced to a vassaldom, probably as a result of the effectiveness, eventually, of the Hyksos military forces, at least until the reign of Kamose. Therefore, we do regard them as the legitimate rulers of the whole country during parts of the Second Intermediate Period, considered a chaotic time which the Hyksos at least partially helped to create in Egypt. They were finally driven from Egypt by his grandson Ahmose I, the founder of the Eighteenth Dynasty.

http://orvillejenkins.com/peoples/hyksosandhebrews.html

That period of Egypt seems very polytheistic to me. Seems I need a lot of help to really understand this subject properly.

D.