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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:17 PM   #1
Malkyte
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Default My "Few" Thoughts on the mini...

Hi all!

I know I don't come over here enough from CA, but I thought I would share my thoughts on the mini over here as well! It's LONG, but I think a good read! Anyway, for those brave enough, enjoy!....


Hello Everyone!

I have been away from the boards for several weeks, mainly do to real life, but also to take a break.

One of the things I did in my brief break was stay completely away from BSG. But I also decided about a week before the airing of the mini, to take up the challenge set forth by the –give it a chance- group. I have seen many remakes and re-imagined stories in the past. Some worked better, some worked about the same, and some worked less. But, I usually would give them the benefit of doubt, until I watched it. With that in mind, there was no reason why I could not do the same for BSG.

I had stated before that I would not watch, do to principle and I had strong objections to many changes I was aware of. But I decided that I would try and put aside my objections and view the mini on its own merits.

Some of you will probably not believe that I approached this with an open mind. There is really nothing I can tell you that will change your minds. But maybe if you read my thoughts on the subject, you will hopefully see that I did indeed approach it with an open mind. Frankly, I wasn’t sure if I could achieve it, but with the time away from the subject and the sheer difference in the tone, style and flavor of the mini, made it easier then I thought it would be. I felt that I was watching an entirely different show and it made it easier to judge it on its own merits! While an eventual comparison to TOS is required, do to the fact that it is a re-imaging of an existing story, my review will be based solely on its own merits, with no comparisons to TOS. However, I will judge it like many have judged the original pilot, including Mr. Moore. I will not judge it on its potential or in comparison to TOS, but what was laid before my eyes, in those two previous nights.

For the record, I watched each part three times, one right after the other. Being on the West Coast aloud me to watch from 6pm to Midnight. This made for a long day at work, but I wanted to give this a fair shake… make sure I didn’t miss anything and perhaps have certain elements grow on me.

With all that said, the following is my thoughts on the two part mini…(For those who have not seen it yet… SPOILERS BEYOND THIS POINT.)

To start, we need to re-examine what Mr. Moore and the rest of the producers wanted to achieve… to paraphrase… “We want nothing less then to reinvent SciFi television! We want to create a show that we can relate to more as humans. A show that is naturalistic and more realistic. We want to take out the clichéd and soap-operatic elements and just create human drama.” These are obviously not direct quotes, but direct ideas expressed by the creators of this mini. It is with these in mind that I will formulate my thoughts on the mini.
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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:19 PM   #2
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THE STORY- Since the basic plot has remained the reasonably the same strong story originally created, the question here is not the story itself, but whether, was the execution of said story any good. This would include the portrayal of characters, the style, the tone and the settings presented to illustrate the story. For it is these details that make up the core, soul and spirit of any story. While the overall idea and tone of this mini had its moments, numerous inconsistencies and contradictions in the details, not to mention pacing and a few other things, kept it from being a truly good piece of work.

Many consider Steven Spielberg, to be a master storyteller. His eye for framing a story onto the screen, has created numerous classics that have inspired many to want to become filmmakers in their own right. In Saving Private Ryan, the viewer is sucked into the landing on the beaches of Normandy. The bullets whizzing by, being pulled underwater and then back up again. The viewer can nearly feel the bullets. But it feels so real that one believes they are there, trying to reach shore with all of the other soldiers. In Shindler’s List, we are moved, disgusted and in some cases ashamed, at the brutality and monstrosity and of the humanity of what took place during those times, all framed masterfully by Spielberg.

So what does that have to do with this mini? Everything! Some might say that you cannot compare the big budget movies of Spielberg to that of a made for cable movie, with perhaps a tenth of the budget. They would be right, if we were talking about the budget, but we are not. We are talking about whether the storyteller can convey the story in a convincing manner. Can they frame the story in a way that the scale and scope of the drama comes through in a convincing manner? Have they managed to show the human drama, the tragedy and the triumphs in a convincing and original manner? In that respect, the size of the budget should not matter, whether it is for the big screen or the small screen. So the question is whether this mini achieved these goals. The answer to this is a resounding, no.

Let’s start with the annihilation of the humans. There are 12 colonial worlds, with billions of people. When the attack begins, we see one world; we see some mushroom clouds, a couple of TV cameras taken out, and Baltar’s house blown away. Even in the TV camera outside, there is no one except for the reporter. Not one person roaming around in a state of panic or confusion trying to determine what is going on. There is no sense of the scale or magnitude of what is going on. The human species is about to be completely destroyed, and yet it is never truly conveyed, except through words. While words can be powerful, in a movie it is the images that create a great deal of the power. When 9/11 happened (which was supposedly the emotions trying to be reached here), I was glued in front of my TV, watching in horror, shock and sadness at the images of the towers, of the plane crashing into the tower, of the policemen and firefighters covered in dust and noticeable shaken and beaten, and the huge crowds of people walking away from the destruction. Those images conveyed the toll and the human tragedy that had transpired. There was a true sense of the devastation and we all felt it! There were more times that I can remember, where the images had me choked up. There weren’t any images even remotely presented in the mini to convey the sheer magnitude of devastation on the worlds or to the humans themselves. While I was moved and even cried during the moments of 9/11, I had absolutely no emotion to the flat, distant and improperly scaled images presented in this mini.

The Cylons. We know that they turned on their creators and disappeared into space. Why did they come back? It is obvious that they have been covertly amongst the humans for years, so why do they announce their return by blowing up the station in the beginning? The scene had absolutely no relevancy as presented. They designed their new models to look exactly like their creators, whom they apparently hate with every fiber of their being. This is a bit contradictory. They create their new models after the things they hate the most? In four hours, virtually nothing is revealed about the Cylons or their reasoning. Where are they? Where are the nukes coming from? Was there really no advanced warning of them arriving in the system? And if they did manage to shut down all computers and communications of the fleet, like they did on a smaller scale with the viper squadron, how did anyone find out that the entire fleet was destroyed? Again, there is no sense of the reason behind the unprovoked attack. Virtually no sense of who and what the Cylons now are. While these questions are not a problem for a fan of the original, where do new viewers get their answers from? These are things that should have been addressed in far more detail in this mini, for the sake of good storytelling. While I can see that the idea was to set up the viewer for the series they hope to get, they still have to tell a complete story in the mini. They didn’t achieve that. —With that said, I found the Cylons to behave far more humanlike, then the supposed real humans.

The Colonials. Except for a few, I found the humans to be clichéd melodramatic characters, mainly behaving like flat unemotional robots. A day after the entire human race is nearly wiped out, they cheer after a speech given by Adama? They have all just lost all or most of their families, yet no one is even remotely curious, horrified, shocked, hysterical about the families and loved ones they may have left behind? They are not remotely surprised, shocked or concerned that the Cylons return after forty years? Like the distant feeling of the destruction of the colonies, so was my feeling of the colonials themselves, distant, passionless and unreal. After they escape the Cylons for the moment and they are showing the different characters settle into their lives, not one is shown being reflective or emotional about what just happened to them. Not one! It’s as if they just had a bad day at the office and now they were going to rest and relax. The creators of this mini wanted us to relate to the characters of this mini as they were supposed to realistically demonstrate human emotions and their tribulations. I can honestly say, that these are not the sort of humans I am familiar with. The humans I know show far more emotion, especially in a crisis and tragedy of such magnitude. Perhaps, this was Mr. Moore’s idea of the colonials being different from Earthly humans. I found myself not caring whether they lived or died, especially the first night. In fact, there were several instances were I felt that the whole mini was just a simulation run by the Cylons to study human behavior. I felt like all the characters were programmed Cylons, which reflected their interpretations and understandings of human beings. While close, not quite what they really are. This would explain a lot of the cold and flat emotions throughout the mini.

Society and the settings. As I feared, this far away civilization looked way too much like our own. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a society that has grown up in an entirely different history and culture and is obviously far more advance then we are, would look so identical to our own, use the same exact language as our own, and wear the same exact clothes as our own. I felt like I was watching Earth in the not so distant future. Perhaps this would work fine if it was, but it is clear that this is suppose to be a far away society that considers the existence of Earth as mere legend. If you consider the differences in societies and cultures here on Earth, that have grown independently from one another and the near contrasting differences they possess, it is highly improbable that a society far removed from Earth, would be so similar. Not very realistic.

The ships themselves had problems. In certain scenes, the Galactica’s hanger seemed eerily quite. No engine humming or for that matter any kind of equipment sounds, just the crew talking. While this seems to be a bit nit picky, it all ties into the idea of realism and believability, which was the intended goal of this mini. I am very capable of suspension of disbelief. But when I am told that this is going to be realistic and true to real life, I will be expecting that. In most cases, that didn’t happen. The hanger of Colonial One was even worse. It had more of a feeling of a sound stage, with a concrete floor, then that of a hanger onboard a spaceship. – With that said, I felt that the Galactica’s command center worked well enough. It took a couple of viewings to grow on me, but it definitely worked better then I had thought when I first saw the pictures. On a slight side note, I thought it was hilarious that all the paper in this world had the corners at an angle. I suppose this was an attempt to make the Colonials different from Earth, while all it did for me is to realize just how superficially desperate that looked. Why would anyone cut off the corners of their paper? Logically, you have less space to write on, plus it probably costs more to produce such paper to begin with, due to an extra step in its production. Realistic?
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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:20 PM   #3
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The sex scenes. While I like a good sex scene or love scene like anyone else, it is important that they have substance and a relation to the story. While the scene between Baltar and Six had relevance to the story, it was over the top in comparison to the mood of the rest of the mini. None of the other sex scenes were essential for the telling of this story. And exactly what purpose did the glowing spine accomplish? We already knew that Six was a Cylon. So what was the purpose?. Less intense scenes would have conveyed the same message and would have been acceptable by more viewers. With Baltar and Six having such a passionate moment, it would have been a good contrast to show the Chief and Boomer, in a more subtle and caring embrace, instead of the scene they did have. Of course, maybe Cylons are horny little beings and they can’t handle it any other way. But if that is true, it is contradicted when Chief and Boomer are reunited later and have a caring embrace (one of the few moments that I did enjoy) in the Galactica’s corridors. With that said, the sex scenes were much tamer then I was expecting and was also relieved to see that they toned down the opening sequence.

THE CHARACTERS- After some thought, I have placed the characters in three categories: Liked, Disliked and Somewhere in the middle.

There were only two characters I liked. The first was the Chief Petty Officer Tyrol played by Aaron Douglas. He seemed to be the only human being in the mini worth caring about. His passion for his work and for his men, amongst other feelings was the closest character to a real human being! His scenes with Adama, Boomer and Tigh worked well for me.

The second character I enjoyed, was Number Six played by the fetching Tricia Helfer. While her character is hardly original, her curiosity and her playful banter with Baltar made her more human then the majority of the supposed real humans in the mini. I will probably surprise and shock people (including myself) by saying that I did not find the baby killing scene offensive. While I am no way saying that I enjoyed it, as it was a horrible thing, I found Six’s reaction afterwards intriguing. The scene was done as tastefully as one can do for the particular subject. It was very subtle. It has been stated by some that this was actually a mercy killing. While I suppose that this is a possible explanation, I find it more plausible that Six’s curiosity got the better of her. Her obvious discomfort and somewhat pained look afterwards, revealed more emotion, then the majority of the human characters. However, this is another glaring example of limited storytelling skills presented in this mini. The scene just doesn’t explain what truly happened. Nor is it resolved in any way later. Perhaps that is exactly what the writer wanted, but unfortunately that can be a dangerous technique to use too much in a project such as this, and ultimately makes it very hard to relate to.

In the Middle - Adama played by Edward James Olmos. While I have enjoyed EJO’s work in the past, I had to really work and strain myself to get even remotely into his character. I don’t know if it was the script, the direction, the acting, or a combination of all three, but for the most part I was unconvinced that this was a strong and great leader, that for some reason the crew respected. Adama mumbles and mopes his way through most of the first part and only barely wakes up in the second part. While I understand that his life is at a crossroads at the beginning of the story, with the decommissioning of his ship, his ex-wife getting ready to remarry and his son still absolutely hating him, even after two years, he barely changes through the entire mini. When he realizes what has happened to the Colonies and resumes full command, you would believe that a little more life and passion would arise in him. A career military man just got another battle to win! And while he says the words, again, his emotions remain rather stoic for the situation, save a few moments. There is potential, as his love for Apollo is shown truthfully in a few scenes. First, when he thinks Apollo is about to die and the subsequent belief that he did die. But by far the best and most powerful moment for me was when Adama hugs Apollo. I must admit to a little choking up in this scene. This was a truly memorable moment!

Baltar played by James Callis. An enigma at best, Baltar is kind of just there. He kind of squirms his way around, and attempts to look sane as Six keeps whispering in his ears. Again, as in most cases, I found his character far from being established, even with four hours to do so. As his character is a main ingredient to this story, I found that to be unacceptable. Did the knowledge of what he did drive him mad, or was he mad to begin with? I understand that this mini is a backdoor pilot for a possible series, but it is still important to develop characters enough where the audience wants to see more. While Baltar’s mental health is intriguing, it wasn’t enough for me to want more. About the only thing keeping Baltar interesting is Six’s curiosity and supposed love for him.

President Roslin played by Mary McDonnell. Perhaps one of my biggest problems with the characters was that they all seemed to be on Valium. For some reason, nearly all of them had a subtle and down played energy. While emotions were present, they were most often then not, muffled. This was the case with Roslin too. While she had the presence of a leader, it was down played and I found myself, figuratively, stretching to feel her character. On some levels her character worked. But in comparison to the rest of the characters, she blended in too much. I didn’t see the passion in her to take control and found it totally unbelievable that no one, other then maybe Adama, really pushed her right to lead. Because of this down played emotional state that most of the characters were found in, the scene with the little girl was less effective then it could have been. While it had the potential to pull at the heartstrings, I was left very flat when the Cylons arrived.

Boomer played by Grace Park. Once I digested what I had seen in the mini, I found it interesting that along with Six, Boomer and even Aaron Doral seemed to be expressing the most consistently believable human emotions, and I found myself caring more for these characters then the supposed humans.(Maybe I am a Cylon!). Her attachment with the Chief, her emotions about leaving Helo behind on Caprica and her interest in Boxey were believable and at times moving. I am unsure to this point, about how I feel about her being Cylon.

Colonel Tigh played by Michael Hogan. This was actually a hard one to place, because he was the one character that I felt, grew the most in the mini. It is crucial in a good story for the characters to grow in some way. Tigh woke up, from his drunken self absorbed state somewhat and showed true signs of redemption. He still has a ways to go by the end of the mini, but his character in the mini itself, was not someone really worth caring about.
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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:21 PM   #4
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Disliked – Kara Thrace played by Katee Sackhoff. Contrary to what Mr. Moore predicted, this character did not grow on me. Before I go further, I want to make it absolutely clear, that my disliking of her has nothing to do with a comparison to Dirk Benedict’s Starbuck. As I stated, I put together my thoughts on this mini on its own merits, nothing more nothing less. Again, I don’t know if it was the writing, the acting, the directing or a combination of all of those, but Kara came off as a spoiled immature brat, who needed a good butt kicking! Was she an officer aboard a military vessel, or on some self determined playground, protected by the commander? Her disrespect of authority and her childish hysterics in the launch tube did absolutely nothing to make her character endearing. Her obvious jab at Col. Tigh in the command center after her release from the brig by Adama, clearly demonstrated her immaturity. And I find it hard to believe that someone of her character would ever make officer. While I am no expert on the military, someone of her character would more then likely have remained in the lower ranks for her entire career. She maybe the best pilot, but the only thing that saves her is Adama. I wasn’t impressed with Ms. Sackhoff’s acting abilities either. In many instances, Ms. Sackhoff seemed to be overacting and in some cases, like when she thinks that Apollo has died, acting completely unconvincingly. Many of my problems with her could stem from the fact that all the other characters seemed to be so flat and subtle, that she comes across too loud simply because of that. But with all that I have said, there was one scene which could have salvaged her character in my eyes and showed that she was someone worth caring about after all. I am referring to the scene towards to end, when Col. Tigh comes to apologize. This one scene defines her character for the entire mini. Can she be humble and be big enough and mature enough to admit her faults? The answer came loud and clear, when she answered with more insults toward Tigh. While Tigh is far from a perfect character, he was big enough to admit his mistakes and was willing to meet Kara halfway and try and resolve their differences. It was a gesture that she was unable or unwilling to return. She was also in the wrong by hitting Tigh earlier, as well as showing as much disrespect for a superior officer and was unable to meet Tigh half way and apologize. I was truly rooting for her to make that apology, because I wanted to like her. I wanted to see that there were some redeeming qualities in her. But instead, it simply solidified my negative feelings for her over the top, loud and bratty character.

SPECIAL EFFECTS- As expected, I enjoyed the special effects! Was it revolutionary? No. And some scenes worked better then others. The unfortunate variations of quality in certain scenes reduced the overall believability of the mini. The ship models and battle sequences were very well done. I liked Ragnar station. The final battle was exceptional. The choreography of ship movements, especially the powerless Viper squadron before they get blown away was masterfully done! The ship wreckages, the launching of the Vipers, the landing of the Vipers, the exploding ships and even the venting of the fire ravaged sections of Galactica were all admirably done. The Galactica herself grew on me, and I was even pleasantly surprised by the converging hangers.

I also enjoyed the new Cylon design, except for the hands, which seemed like they were trying to play homage to Edward Scissorhands. Also, their walking animation was off just enough in the weight distribution to make them seem a little too light on their feet.

I am no physics expert, but can bullets really have such tracer fire elements in the vacuum of space? Also, since when can missiles move in space, like the one that was about to hit Apollo’s ship, before Starbuck came to the rescue?

While the moving camera work, seemed to work well in interior shots, they were a dismal distraction in the outer space parts! Exactly, where is that camera that captures the Galactica jump to Ragnar, and then quickly zoom in on it? While this sounds cool on paper, its actual execution is far less impressive and actually annoying.

There were also two glaring examples of a lack of attention to detail, that I noticed right away all three times and drove me crazy! What is interesting is, I have not seen anyone really mention it. Either I have not read enough, or I found it more important then anyone else. Right before the jump to Ragnar, the Galactica hanger bays are pulled in towards the main part of the body, in preparation for the jump. Yet, right before the actual jump, the hangers are fully extended. While this may seem petty, in a naturalistic and realistic setting, you would believe that such glaring details would be fixed! -- The other though less offensive, still contradicts the attempt at true physics based realism. When the Galactica moves out of the Ragnar clouds to take on the Cylon, it tilts its body toward the enemy fleet for a better tactical position. While there is nothing wrong with that, the speed at which the Galactica makes that maneuver changes the scale of the Galactica to resemble more of a small freighter, instead of a huge battleship.

Over all, I enjoyed the FX. I would have liked to have seen more of the destruction of the Colonial fleets and some more devastating views of the planetary surfaces. I think both would have helped illustrate the scale if the story!

THE SOUNDTRACK- Or lack there of! I have to start by admitting that I am a huge soundtrack fan. So I might have a bit of a bias here! The greatest percentage of my CD collection consists of scores and soundtracks representing a multitude of genres. Music is the underbelly of emotion in a movie. It amplifies the visuals emotions and in some cases the inner or hidden emotions of the characters or even of the setting. The soundtrack can help convey and interpret scenes, so that the audience can better immerse themselves in the story. Sometimes, silence can achieve an equally powerful emotion, but in the case of this mini, it was over used! The score of this mini reflects the overall emotion and character of this flat and cold tale. With very few exceptions, the music is nearly non-existent and seems completely out of place. While the drums convey a sort of militaristic undertone with a slight twinge of tribal flavor, I had absolutely no idea how that sound related to the story. I can surmise that it was an attempt to paint a more raw and naturalistic tone for the whole piece, but came off more as if we were in an African village, enjoying the local nightlife.

There were a few moments of musical gems, I believe mainly in the second part, where the lifeline of the movie actually registered a pulse, but it was too few and far between to keep a lasting spark.
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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:21 PM   #5
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IN CONCLUSION- To bring it all together… Mr. Moore and company was right. Today’s scifi audience is much more sophisticated then that of 25 years ago. We have been spoiled by many examples of good stories and improved storytelling techniques over the years. We want more out of our stories, then ever before. We want deeper and richer characters; deeper stories and realistic worlds that suck us right in and make us believe that we are there, experiencing it ourselves. We want to learn, experience and celebrate the endless possibilities that are all around us. Whether it is a fantastic ideal or a simple human emotion being explored, good scifi can takes us on fantastic journeys that stimulate the mind, heart and soul!

Unfortunately, this mini does none of it! Even worse, it continues the blasé Hollywood formula of clichés, attempting to be hidden under a pretty, yet flat and dull world. The characters and the story are so underdeveloped it isn’t even funny! In four hours, not much is shown or achieved or resolved. If you think that is not enough time, watch the original four-hour V mini. While nowhere near perfect, that mini is a decent example of how to take a large story and a large cast, through a tale of tragedy and triumph.

The pacing of this mini is excruciatingly slow and boring! I found very little reason to hate the Cylons, but found plenty of reasons to not like the humans.

If any of you remember, I repeatedly stated that this might be good in its own rights. But I was surprised to discover that it wasn’t even sophisticated enough to be good on its own merits. What I found was a story told with no heart, no soul and with no passion, full of contradictions and inconsistencies, with as little original imagination as possible. I did not feel like it redefined scifi. If it did, scifi is in deep trouble! I didn’t find it realistic or naturalistic. Plastic is more like it. And I found myself relating more to the robots and less to the humans. --Yes there were isolated moments of pleasing scenes, but that’s like saying that I liked a few notes from a full symphonic composition. The piece has to work all together. And while the story and the idea were promising, the execution was less then impressive.

I was truly hoping to be wrong in my pre-viewing opinions. I was hoping that Mr. Moore’s enthusiasm would carry over and really show us something amazing. Take us on a journey of something truly stimulating. But in the end, it came down to why I had originally planned on not watching. Hollywood has become for many years now, a challenging place to find work, if you think originally. Gone are creativity, heart, soul, craftsmanship and originality for the most part. Instead, it’s all about the latest formula and which story to be remade, remolded, reinvented or re-imagined. It is all about what can be exploited and what can make that quick buck. I take this especially personally because I am still contemplating a career in the movie industry. But I find it disheartening and a bit scary to think that I may find myself working on a story that has been totally twisted out of its original context into something horribly different. This is something I will have to come to grips with and soon.

For those who are still reading, thank you! This was a cleansing of sorts for me. The end of a journey that began in March, when I first got wind of this project. I am no longer angry. I am however, saddened and disappointed that such a wonderfully promising tale, with today’s storytelling techniques could be told in such utter failure. And while my journey was less then fun at times, I feel fortunate to have met and made friends with some of the people here, online! I will continue to be around and participate in our collective dream of seeing a faithful telling of this story, and continue to meet and make friends with the growing list of members on these boards!

Most Respectfully,

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Old December 16th, 2003, 05:05 PM   #6
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I agree with you on all points.
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Old December 17th, 2003, 12:04 PM   #7
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Thank you for the response, octagon! I was wondering if anyone was going to say something over here!

Respectfully,

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Old December 17th, 2003, 12:30 PM   #8
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I'll say this over here, Malkyte.

Very, very well done. If I was having any doubts about not having watched this, you have put them to rest.

Thank you.



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Old December 17th, 2003, 02:19 PM   #9
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Thanks Malkyte
you truly took the words out of my mouth!!!

hopefully Ron Moore reads this and realizes the mistakes he made by not listening to the real fans!!!
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Old December 17th, 2003, 04:07 PM   #10
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Thanks Dawg and Orrin_73!

I appreciate your responses. It took me a while to write it, but it was fun! I know some of my thoughts, like the one on Six and the infamous "scene" is not a popular one, but I just wanted to be honest!

I figured I could get a little discussion out of it, like at CA, but so far it has been eerily quiet over here.

Thanks again!

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Old December 19th, 2003, 11:06 PM   #11
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I agree with most of your points. The thing about modern day audiences being more "sophistacated" sounds good, but viewing this "sophisticated" stuff leaves me with the opposite impression. If sophistication means paper-thin characters that are impssible to like, smarmy melodrama that would cause even Star Trek: The Next Generation fans to blush with embarassment, and plot holes big enough to drive a base star through - well, then sophistication has become synonymous with grade B low budget crud.

One thing I'd add: the subplots added up to nothing. Baltar finding that Cylon device on the bridge, and all the time and effort that went into removing it. But it didn't matter! If it was a homing beacon, it had already done its job and it was pointless to remove it. If it was something else...well, it wasn't something else.

The President - she suggested to the commander that the war was over - but he came to that conclusion on his own. Her entire input into the matter was unnecessary.

Yet, these subplots took up the whole show. When such large chunks of a TV show add up to nothing, I feel as if it's been a complete waste of time to view them. Subplots need to contribute something to the overall plot of a movie, yet these didn't.

And the plot holes - why didn't the Cylons just go into the area of space surrounding the munitions depot? Obviously it wouldn't do them much harm - as the Cylon on the depot told us - for they were all present on the depot at the end. The movie not only had major plot problems, but was nice enough to point them out to us as well.
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Old December 23rd, 2003, 12:41 PM   #12
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Hi Terayon!

I agree with you! That was the point I was trying to make. The kind of audience they were trying to reach, would not and have not considered this mini to be more "sophisticated", in comparison to what they are used to in today's world.

While some, who liked the mini will try and compare it to TOS, the comparison should really be to today's shows, characters and stories. And in that respect, this mini fails on multiple levels!

Respectfully,

Malkyte
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Old January 3rd, 2004, 07:40 PM   #13
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Thanks for posting malkyte
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Old January 4th, 2004, 12:49 PM   #14
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Good post Terayon. I don't know How I missed it before.
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Old January 12th, 2004, 05:07 PM   #15
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Thanks for posting malkyte
... And thanks for reading it, shinningstar!!!
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Old January 12th, 2004, 06:14 PM   #16
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Thanks for sharing your ideas Malkyte!
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Old January 14th, 2004, 11:45 AM   #17
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Thanks for sharing your ideas Malkyte!

amberstar!

It's good to hear from you again! It has been a while!

I spend most of my limited online time on CA and venture over to SciFi once in a while, to keep them somewhat honest. But many of the regulars have limited their involvement there for obvious reasons.

Anywho, thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts!

Respectfully,

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Old January 14th, 2004, 01:24 PM   #18
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Malkyte:

Thanks for the well thought out and documented critique of the mini. I enjoyed the mini but agree with you on many points especially your write up of the Starbuck character.

I was worried about the "female Starbuck" before I saw the mini and tried to hope for the best. I genuinely wanted to like her and was overlooking most of the issues you mentioned. I couldn't however get past the final scene she had with Colonel Tigh. What hope you had for her just couldn't get beyond her insubordinate childish actions.

I think Moore took the easy way out by saying you can't redo Dirk Benedict as Starbuck. Starbuck may be Dirk Benedict but he is very similar to a host of "hot shot" young buck single pilots you see in movie after movie, like Tom Cruise in Top Gun or any of the character in The Right Stuff.

I am one who thinks Moore derived 90% of the mini from the movie "In Harm's Way". Starbuck is the the most disjointed combination and splice character pulled from that movie. She has elements and scenes from three separate characters plus shoe horned elements from the original Starbuck in TOS.

Moore needed to take a step back and treat Starbuck like any other character. She did not need to be involved in so many issues. It was too much for an apparantly weak actress to pull off. In "Saga of a Star World" Dirk Benedict had some good scenes but he wasn't the prime focus of most of the action.

Maybe they were being cheap and didn't want to pay for a "Serena", "Athena", or "Cassiopea" if they made a new series. All I know is that if Starbuck would have died in the final battle and they had Apollo befriend another pilot to start the series if one occurs we would be better off.

Here's an idea: Everyone seems to like Tyrol. Why don't they kill off the Kara Thrace Starbuck. With the fleet short on pilots some of the crew gets trained as pilots to include, Tyrol. Tyrol is now LT Tyrol, the wild womanizing friend who Apollo takes under his wing. He could even use the call sign "Starbuck" as homage to the fallen warrior. Boomer becomes the equivalent of Athena (with a cylon twist). Cally becomes the equivalent of Cassiopea. All is in place and Apollo can fall for Sheba when they remake the Pegasus story.

Even a true purist (not me) can see if there is a will they can still save the plot before it's too late. I won't bet any money on it but it's nice to dream.
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Old January 14th, 2004, 02:17 PM   #19
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Originally posted by antelope526


Here's an idea: Everyone seems to like Tyrol. Why don't they kill off the Kara Thrace Starbuck. With the fleet short on pilots some of the crew gets trained as pilots to include, Tyrol. Tyrol is now LT Tyrol, the wild womanizing friend who Apollo takes under his wing. He could even use the call sign "Starbuck" as homage to the fallen warrior. Boomer becomes the equivalent of Athena (with a cylon twist). Cally becomes the equivalent of Cassiopea. All is in place and Apollo can fall for Sheba when they remake the Pegasus story.

I think it was easy for everyone to embrace Tyrol because there was no one to compare him with in TOS. And that's not to take away anything from Aaron, because he did a great job of bringing that character to life. Dirk's shoes are big ones to fill. I really can't think of anyone who could pull that role off, the same way he did, besides him. In the context of a 're-imagining' I think it was a good idea to make Starbuck female just for that reason. That said, I'm really not sure why Moore then felt compelled to make Kara try to act exactly like the TOS Starbuck. It was Grace and Katee who were in the running for the Starbuck part, I can't help to wonder how Grace would have portrayed Starbuck if she had played her.

Your stellar observations in your In Harm's Way thread are pretty much right on the money. By following In Harm's Way so closely, he hasn't exactly painted himself into a corner, but how he split the characters did weaken the mini.
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Old January 18th, 2004, 04:29 PM   #20
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Malkyte,

This was a good read, regardless if one liked or disliked the mini. The background that you used, in your decision making / review, was as important as the actual review itself.

Very well done.

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Old January 19th, 2004, 08:26 AM   #21
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I agree with Bst on this one.
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Old January 19th, 2004, 11:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by antelope526
Malkyte:

Thanks for the well thought out and documented critique of the mini. I enjoyed the mini but agree with you on many points especially your write up of the Starbuck character.

I was worried about the "female Starbuck" before I saw the mini and tried to hope for the best. I genuinely wanted to like her and was overlooking most of the issues you mentioned. I couldn't however get past the final scene she had with Colonel Tigh. What hope you had for her just couldn't get beyond her insubordinate childish actions.

I think Moore took the easy way out by saying you can't redo Dirk Benedict as Starbuck. Starbuck may be Dirk Benedict but he is very similar to a host of "hot shot" young buck single pilots you see in movie after movie, like Tom Cruise in Top Gun or any of the character in The Right Stuff.

I am one who thinks Moore derived 90% of the mini from the movie "In Harm's Way". Starbuck is the the most disjointed combination and splice character pulled from that movie. She has elements and scenes from three separate characters plus shoe horned elements from the original Starbuck in TOS.

Moore needed to take a step back and treat Starbuck like any other character. She did not need to be involved in so many issues. It was too much for an apparantly weak actress to pull off. In "Saga of a Star World" Dirk Benedict had some good scenes but he wasn't the prime focus of most of the action.

Maybe they were being cheap and didn't want to pay for a "Serena", "Athena", or "Cassiopea" if they made a new series. All I know is that if Starbuck would have died in the final battle and they had Apollo befriend another pilot to start the series if one occurs we would be better off.

Here's an idea: Everyone seems to like Tyrol. Why don't they kill off the Kara Thrace Starbuck. With the fleet short on pilots some of the crew gets trained as pilots to include, Tyrol. Tyrol is now LT Tyrol, the wild womanizing friend who Apollo takes under his wing. He could even use the call sign "Starbuck" as homage to the fallen warrior. Boomer becomes the equivalent of Athena (with a cylon twist). Cally becomes the equivalent of Cassiopea. All is in place and Apollo can fall for Sheba when they remake the Pegasus story.

Even a true purist (not me) can see if there is a will they can still save the plot before it's too late. I won't bet any money on it but it's nice to dream.
Hi antelope526!

You maybe very right, that a good part of this mini is derived from "In Harm's Way". Moore has made enough reference to it to be the case. I had been tempted to watch the movie, to get a better handle on where Moore is coming from, but after hearing many people describing it, lets just say I haven't jumped at the chance to see it.

I think we are both in the minority, that believe that had they made an attempt at finding a young unknown talented male to play Starbuck, they could have come close to the original character. I am in the belief that, out of the thousands of aspiring acters, they could have found someone to, at least, give a fair portrayal of the original Starbuck. It would never be the original, but they could find someone close. There have been many examples of multiple acters playing the same character with variable results. James Bond is on actor number six. And while they are different, they each brought a believable portrayal to the character. -- As for the mini Starbuck, it just felt forced. While I could have lived with the gender change, it was the character's behavior that turned me off. And for anyone claiming that this is good ol' Starbuck from the original would be seriously mistaken!

I also agree with you that it seemed a little contradictory to want a strong female presence in the mini and then cut out nearly all the original female characters. It is something that Moore tried to explain away by saying, he could not find space for them in his story. Huh?

As for Tyrol, an interesting idea, but I would keep Tyrol on the deck. If anything positive did come out of the mini, it was showing a little more of the lower hands of the Galactica. Like in ST II, where we get to meet Scotty's nephew, who ends up dying saving other crewmen. Those kind of side stories do add to the depth and believability of the story.

And you are right, the mini can be salvaged. But I fear that Moore and the studios will be too stuborn to do so and present a series that will follow the mini. Which will in my strong but humble opinion doom his new take on an old premise to a very short life.

Malkyte
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Old January 19th, 2004, 11:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by sihirvyth2
I think it was easy for everyone to embrace Tyrol because there was no one to compare him with in TOS. And that's not to take away anything from Aaron, because he did a great job of bringing that character to life. Dirk's shoes are big ones to fill. I really can't think of anyone who could pull that role off, the same way he did, besides him. In the context of a 're-imagining' I think it was a good idea to make Starbuck female just for that reason. That said, I'm really not sure why Moore then felt compelled to make Kara try to act exactly like the TOS Starbuck. It was Grace and Katee who were in the running for the Starbuck part, I can't help to wonder how Grace would have portrayed Starbuck if she had played her.

Your stellar observations in your In Harm's Way thread are pretty much right on the money. By following In Harm's Way so closely, he hasn't exactly painted himself into a corner, but how he split the characters did weaken the mini.
Hi sihirvyth2!

For me Tyrol came easy to like, because in my opinion he behaved like a human I would recognize. For me it had nothing to do with comparing him to an older character. He just came accross as the most human and one that you could root for. Like I mentioned in my original post(s), I don't know if it was the writing, the directing, the acting or a combination of all three, but the majority of the "human" characters were so flat, that I found myself not caring whether they lived or died.

As for Starbuck, I would have to concure with antelope526, that Moore took the esay way out by making him a her. It is true that knowone would be able to put in the performance exactly like Dirk did, but with the thousands of acters in Hollywood, I am very confident that someone close enough could have been found. As an example, in Space Cowboys, there is a flash back sequence in which all of the main characters are represented by younger acters. If you have never seen this movie, it is worth it just to see the acter playing a young Clint Eastwood. Really uncanny! --My point is though that it could have been done. Simply stating that there is no one like Dirk is highly complimentary, but also an easy way out, and therefore, not very credible.

As for Grace portraying Starbuck would have been interesting!

Malkyte
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Old January 19th, 2004, 11:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Malkyte,

This was a good read, regardless if one liked or disliked the mini. The background that you used, in your decision making / review, was as important as the actual review itself.

Very well done.

BST
Thanks BST and Shinningstar!!!

I tried to make it a good read!

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Old January 19th, 2004, 02:20 PM   #25
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You certainly did Malkyte
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