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Old October 24th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #1
Centurion Draco
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Default Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

The main thread seems to have expanded somewhat, so I wanted to propose the question elsewhere.

Is there any credible way that we can hope to influence the direction that the new project will take?

If nothing else, can the various fans/sites represented here agree a list of requests that we'd like to politely ask those involved to consider for inclusion in this project and then submit those proposals with the backing of the extended group as a whole?

I for one would like to be proactive in this and not reactive.
We don't want to just sit back arguing amongst ourselves until this happens and then moan about the direction it took.

I would think that it would be 'fairly easy' (the Lords of Kobol willing!) for us to all agree on enough of a wishlist of sensible requests that might be achieveable at least in part.

I would suggest a sliding scale from 'full continuation with original cast' to sensitive retelling with recasting of a few original actors in genuine roles.
And other things inbetween.

In return for at least some of our polite requests being included, the FULL support of all the signatory sites and our geuine and enthusiastic support and sustained promotion of the new project off and online in every way we can.


This is it people, our last chance! We need to wholeheartedly support this project and try to have some influence in its direction.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 10:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

The goal, I think, is to be constructive with the advice and engage purely in civil discourse about the project. If the (very real) possibility arises that there is more focus on NuBSG than TOS, offer ways to help it be more seamless. Remove all emotion from the subject matter and look at it from pure objectivity. Also, while it would surely hurt my mind to do so, put yourself in the shoes of the bean-counters. What will make the most amount of money without sacrificing too much of the source material? It may be a tall order to do all these things, and this may be an overly-simplistic laundry list, but I think if we concentrate on 1) being constructive and 2) being civil, the suits may just start listening to the fan-base again. If this turns into another jihad, do not ever expect them to care about what the fans say ever again. Remember who cuts the checks - sponsors and executives. If the project dies due to mixed messages from our end of the table, the fans will only have themselves to blame once again.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 11:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by 137th Gebirg View Post
The goal, I think, is to be constructive with the advice and engage purely in civil discourse about the project. If the (very real) possibility arises that there is more focus on NuBSG than TOS, offer ways to help it be more seamless. Remove all emotion from the subject matter and look at it from pure objectivity. Also, while it would surely hurt my mind to do so, put yourself in the shoes of the bean-counters. What will make the most amount of money without sacrificing too much of the source material? It may be a tall order to do all these things, and this may be an overly-simplistic laundry list, but I think if we concentrate on 1) being constructive and 2) being civil, the suits may just start listening to the fan-base again. If this turns into another jihad, do not ever expect them to care about what the fans say ever again. Remember who cuts the checks - sponsors and executives. If the project dies due to mixed messages from our end of the table, the fans will only have themselves to blame once again.
Absolutely right 137!

We need to start the constructive dialogue amongst ourselves now, before all the decisions are made. The 'community' does have something to offer and it's support, if percieved to be geunine might win concessions and influence direction.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

^^^ Particularly since it has been proven that the Great Powers do lurk these boards for ideas and comments.

Case in point, I don't know how many people watch "House". I'm an avid watcher of this show and for those familiar with last season's finale - a scene in which House basically loses it after Cuddy breaks off their relationship, he drives his car into the front of Cuddy's home, through the dining room where a bunch of people had been sitting down to eat in an earlier scene. The fan base freaked out, citing that House might have killed Cuddy's kid or guests or Cuddy herself in his fit of rage. Without getting into particulars, the most recent season opens with House, in jail, in front of a parole board hearing where he literally addressed, almost verbatim, the precise laundry list of grievances the fans had over the finale scene. They do watch our comments, they do take notes, and they do want to make the fan-base happy (or at least try), because without the fan base, viewership dries up and the sponsors bail on them.

Yes, we will always see the Languatron freak-shows in any conversation. It is our responsibility as the more level-headed viewership to ostracize those who seek controversy where none should exist, while keeping an open mind to all viewpoints, including those that some would perceive as being negative, so long as their exists some level of constructive critique.

Sounds like if we're going to go down this path, and possibly set up a whole new section of the forum, rules of specific engagement should be codified for this purpose. IIRC, there is still officially a moratorium on all discussions re: NuBSG. As this new project may incorporate elements from that show, that particular rule may need to be curtailed - perhaps in this new forum section alone. If others don't want to participate in this discussion, they needn't click the link to that path and the rest of the site will be NuBSG free (sans artwork, of course) to assuage those whose opinions on the matter may be too emotionally charged. Perhaps this new piece of the board should be set up like TrekBBS's "The Neutral Zone", where membership is by request and mod-approval only, although the content of which shouldn't be as "wild west" as it is on TNZ. The rules of civility should be strictly enforced by the mods, as well as on themselves, regardless of what their feelings may be about anything having to do with NuBSG. Everyone must agree to this or the conversation will fail and shouldn't be pursued at all.

One of my initial recommendations would be not to allow the use of the word "GINO" in reference to NuBSG - sorry Russell - I love ya bro, and you know I have serious respect for your work and opinions in the genre, but I flat-out never liked this term. Although I 100% understand that the acronym comes from the frustrations held over NuBSG by the TOS fans, it still invokes a kind of terse negativity that we should attempt to transcend. Hell, Moore even poked fun at it when he invented the Six incarnation of "Gina" for the "Razor" movie. NuBSG, G2003, BSG-RDM, etc. would be fine, but GINO, with great respect to all my fellow BBS- and BSG-mates, should not be allowed.

Just my 2 cubits' worth.

Edit:
On second thought, a locked-down part of the forum would defeat the purpose of allowing everyone (including lurking studio executives) to see what's going on. I don't know how this version of BBS software operates, perhaps lock down that section of the forum to a read-only format for all those who are not approved participants.

Last edited by 137th Gebirg; October 24th, 2011 at 12:12 PM..
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Old October 24th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Hi 137,

Indeed. A great idea. A neutral space for 'clean slate' discussion of the possibilities without getting mired in the politics and emotions of the past.

I completely agree about strict moderation as well. This needs to be a positive area.

This 'movie' if it happens is going to be a compromise. Even if it were a proper continuation with original cast it wouldn't please everyone.
We the fans have to try to get as much as possible out of this but be satisfied with not filling the whole 'wish list'.

I agree about not using 'GINO' or any other negative terms. we've all done a lot of bitching and lets face it we had good cause in many ways. But it needs to be over now.
If we cling to the past we are going to be architects of our own demise.

We've actually got a chance to see a cinema BSG film, it's FANTASTIC news until proven otherwise. We need to stop expecting the worse and hope it's something good after all these years of wanting.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by 137th Gebirg View Post
^^^ Particularly since it has been proven that the Great Powers do lurk these boards for ideas and comments.

Yes, we will always see the Languatron freak-shows in any conversation. It is our responsibility as the more level-headed viewership to ostracize those who seek controversy where none should exist, while keeping an open mind to all viewpoints, including those that some would perceive as being negative, so long as their exists some level of constructive critique.

Sounds like if we're going to go down this path, and possibly set up a whole new section of the forum, rules of specific engagement should be codified for this purpose. IIRC, there is still officially a moratorium on all discussions re: NuBSG. As this new project may incorporate elements from that show, that particular rule may need to be curtailed - perhaps in this new forum section alone. If others don't want to participate in this discussion, they needn't click the link to that path and the rest of the site will be NuBSG free (sans artwork, of course) to assuage those whose opinions on the matter may be too emotionally charged. Perhaps this new piece of the board should be set up like TrekBBS's "The Neutral Zone", where membership is by request and mod-approval only, although the content of which shouldn't be as "wild west" as it is on TNZ. The rules of civility should be strictly enforced by the mods, as well as on themselves, regardless of what their feelings may be about anything having to do with NuBSG. Everyone must agree to this or the conversation will fail and shouldn't be pursued at all.

One of my initial recommendations would be not to allow the use of the word "GINO" in reference to NuBSG - sorry Russell - I love ya bro, and you know I have serious respect for your work and opinions in the genre, but I flat-out never liked this term. Although I 100% understand that the acronym comes from the frustrations held over NuBSG by the TOS fans, it still invokes a kind of terse negativity that we should attempt to transcend. Hell, Moore even poked fun at it when he invented the Six incarnation of "Gina" for the "Razor" movie. NuBSG, G2003, BSG-RDM, etc. would be fine, but GINO, with great respect to all my fellow BBS- and BSG-mates, should not be allowed.

Just my 2 cubits' worth.

Edit:
On second thought, a locked-down part of the forum would defeat the purpose of allowing everyone (including lurking studio executives) to see what's going on. I don't know how this version of BBS software operates, perhaps lock down that section of the forum to a read-only format for all those who are not approved participants.
137th Gebirg -

While the thought behind it is admirable, much of what you've said or thought about in this particular quote is ground that's already been traveled before. Just in case you forgot, we used to have two parts to Colonial Fleets - one to facilitate discussion of TOS and one to facilitate discussion of NuBSG. The idea was that if we moderated heavily, limited certain terminology from being used, but all the membership did was find ways to circumvent those measures and keep the fires of discontent burning. It was really frustrating for the staff on this site because we really thought that it would work. But, people being the free thinking individuals they are, they kept right at it. People were banned for ignoring the rules, people left because of the rules and then finally, the NuBSG portion of the forum was shut down and further discussion was forbad (except as a form of CG art or modelmaking).

It's all been done before and in the end, where did it get us?

You can make all the propositions to the owners and administrators of this site, but without their approval and agreement, it's not likely to change in the future. As a matter of record, rules of civility towards other members has always been strictly enforced. We do not and never will not ostracise a CF member because their opinion differs from another person or group.

The best thing you can do to support a new film production is to do just that - support it. Other than that, an individual can't do any more.

Regards,

Gemini1999
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Old October 24th, 2011, 01:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini1999 View Post
137th Gebirg -

While the thought behind it is admirable, much of what you've said or thought about in this particular quote is ground that's already been traveled before. Just in case you forgot, we used to have two parts to Colonial Fleets - one to facilitate discussion of TOS and one to facilitate discussion of NuBSG. The idea was that if we moderated heavily, limited certain terminology from being used, but all the membership did was find ways to circumvent those measures and keep the fires of discontent burning. It was really frustrating for the staff on this site because we really thought that it would work. But, people being the free thinking individuals they are, they kept right at it. People were banned for ignoring the rules, people left because of the rules and then finally, the NuBSG portion of the forum was shut down and further discussion was forbad (except as a form of CG art or modelmaking).

It's all been done before and in the end, where did it get us?

You can make all the propositions to the owners and administrators of this site, but without their approval and agreement, it's not likely to change in the future. As a matter of record, rules of civility towards other members has always been strictly enforced. We do not and never will not ostracise a CF member because their opinion differs from another person or group.

The best thing you can do to support a new film production is to do just that - support it. Other than that, an individual can't do any more.

Regards,

Gemini1999
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Sorry Gemini but I think you've given up.

137 is right that forums like this ARE read by 'the powers that be'. So we can either try and influence the decisions or just sit back and take what we get.

But if they are reading and seing all the negativity and a general continuation of the RDM conflict/arguments are they more or less likely to try and cater to us?

Yes, the experience of the RDM-BSG is a negative example, but it IS an example and we need to learn from it.
There were concessions made by skiffy to us. And those concessions werre made in a very hostile enviroment.
Too late to make a difference, but there you go!

The loss of the hugely anticipated continuation was a heavy blow.

This is different. We aren't reeling from that hammer blow. We know this is a different project, we know it's not going to tick all the boxes for us, we can however try and have some input on what we do get out of it.

Either that or we sit and keep doing what we have been doing! What has that achieved?

We lose nothing more by trying than we have already lost.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 01:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Sadly I think the last people anyone in charge wants to hear from is fans of the original show. It is going to be what it is going to be. I went through everything back in the DeSanto/Moore direction days, and in the end, everything ended up the way the studios wanted.

Is it giving up, or experience with how the system works. In my heart and mind, I know the studio is going to make the movie they want to make. What they think will work, whether its right or wrong. The writer already has his idea for the movie and its been accepted... and onto screenwriting. So us bringing up points for a continuation are moot at this point.

I have the original series, which a nice side effect of all this has resparked my interest and got out the DVDs once more. I have my hopes of what the new movie may be, and I will see if/when its actually made. Same as I will do when/if the new Logan's Run ever gets made. Fingers crossed. And that's about all my effort I can and would put forth at this point.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 02:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kerin View Post
Sadly I think the last people anyone in charge wants to hear from is fans of the original show. It is going to be what it is going to be. I went through everything back in the DeSanto/Moore direction days, and in the end, everything ended up the way the studios wanted.

Is it giving up, or experience with how the system works. In my heart and mind, I know the studio is going to make the movie they want to make. What they think will work, whether its right or wrong. The writer already has his idea for the movie and its been accepted... and onto screenwriting. So us bringing up points for a continuation are moot at this point.

I have the original series, which a nice side effect of all this has resparked my interest and got out the DVDs once more. I have my hopes of what the new movie may be, and I will see if/when its actually made. Same as I will do when/if the new Logan's Run ever gets made. Fingers crossed. And that's about all my effort I can and would put forth at this point.
Hi David,

Can you explain your sub avatar title of 'Revivalist' please?

If we are so consumed with apathy and such a total lack of belief that won't even try and ask for the movie we presumably all want......
Well, we probobly won't get the movie we want, but we'll get the one we deserve.
And I guess que another 5 years of moaning about what might have been.

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Old October 24th, 2011, 02:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Draco -

I haven't given up, but I've done a lot of observing over the years where genre projects are concerned and I know that I have as much practical input into it as an ant has in moving an elephant.

I've never been one of those that was "scarred for life" or whatever when NuBSG wasn't what a lot of people wanted it to be When it comes to a new film project, if it gets made, I'll be there to see it in whatever form it takes when it hits the theater.

If it doesn't meet my expectations, it won't do any damage other than take a few dollars from my wallet and I'll move on. I'll always be a fan of the original, but I'm also a realist and don't have any illusions about being able to determine what the end product will be.

I'd also like to add something to this discussion because of something that another CF member pointed out on another forum:

Quote:
"I'm a huge fan of the original series and of the second show, too. But I always thought the first show was a little too heavily reliant on 'Star Wars,' you know? Whereas I think the second show was really original and really cool. And I think I've come up with a way to write this movie that won't f--k any of that up. I'm not sure how much they want me to talk about it. Let's just say it's not what you expect. It will all work in the universe that exists. It will not conflict with anything Ron Moore has done. I don't think you can compete with what he's done"
Now, if you read what's bolded, it seems pretty clear what John Orloff has in mind for the film. He wants to do a film that won't conflict with what Ron Moore did - mainly because he really liked what Ron Moore did with BSG.

If there's anyone out there that thinks that they can talk John Orloff out of his vision for the screenplay, then I wish them luck.

Bryan
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Old October 24th, 2011, 03:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

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Hi David,

Can you explain your sub avatar title of 'Revivalist' please?

If we are so consumed with apathy and such a total lack of belief that won't even try and ask for the movie we presumably all want......
Well, we probobly won't get the movie we want, but we'll get the one we deserve.
And I guess que another 5 years of moaning about what might have been.

You know... I never noticed the sub-avatars before. Pretty cool! I actually never put those there myself, but they're probably there because of all the efforts (including the Fan Force) when Moore's Galactica was moving into production. So revivalist must be there for that. And because of all that back then, is why I feel now there is even less desire by TPTB to hear from the fans.

And the phrase "we all want" is tricky because is it what the original BSG fans want, or the main audience is wanting from a movie called Battlestar Galactica. They are looking at what they think a mass audience is going to want, and what a small group of original series fans want is not going to sway them too much. Yes it sounds defeatist, but that may be where I am. My Battlestar Galactica has moved on, and its now in the hands of others. Maybe I'll like what they do, maybe I won't . Either way I've realized too that 5 years of moaning won't do me any good. So I'll see it if/when it comes out. I may like it, I may not. I can hope they learn some lessons from the Star Trek movie, and go along those lines. And how many fans had all their complaints (and still do) about that movie? JJ still made the movie he wanted to make, controversy and all. I felt we lucked out with JJ Abrams. Hopefully we'll luck out with Singer.

Whether its good or bad, I won't be complaining for years to come. My Battlestar is what it is. Maybe I'll like what it will be. Maybe I won't.

Did that explain any of my sub-avatar? I may have side-tracked.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 04:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Quote:
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Draco -

I haven't given up, but I've done a lot of observing over the years where genre projects are concerned and I know that I have as much practical input into it as an ant has in moving an elephant.

I've never been one of those that was "scarred for life" or whatever when NuBSG wasn't what a lot of people wanted it to be When it comes to a new film project, if it gets made, I'll be there to see it in whatever form it takes when it hits the theater.

If it doesn't meet my expectations, it won't do any damage other than take a few dollars from my wallet and I'll move on. I'll always be a fan of the original, but I'm also a realist and don't have any illusions about being able to determine what the end product will be.

I'd also like to add something to this discussion because of something that another CF member pointed out on another forum:



Now, if you read what's bolded, it seems pretty clear what John Orloff has in mind for the film. He wants to do a film that won't conflict with what Ron Moore did - mainly because he really liked what Ron Moore did with BSG.

If there's anyone out there that thinks that they can talk John Orloff out of his vision for the screenplay, then I wish them luck.

Bryan
Hi Bryan,

My point is that we lose nothing by trying. We can't hope to change the big decisions but we can hope to influence the smaller ones.
Or we can just wait and see and it'll all be decided without any input from the fans.
If we start out approaching this new project from a hostile or apathetic stance we have to take what we get.
If we DO try to have an input and show the PTB that we are enthusiastic supporters they might make concessions to us.

I read that quote too. I agree it doesn't exactly fill my heart with joy and hope, but I do understand why he's taking that direction.
He clearly wants to court the NuBSG fanbase, why not show him that courting us is also worthwhile?

As it stands we can't exactly look 'good' to these people, we must appear a little fanatical and hostile at best.
We need to change that, we need to show that we are a positive fanbase of loyal enthusiastic supporters who can bring publicity and goodwill to this project.

Or we just take the view that we are powerless and the efforts of the last 'decades' have beeen a complete waste of time.

I don't mean to sound negative Bryan because I do understand what you are saying, I'm just horrified at what 'we' have become!
Are we so used to being dissapointed that we won't even try to get something out of this last chance?

Best
Gene
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Old October 25th, 2011, 04:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kerin View Post
You know... I never noticed the sub-avatars before. Pretty cool! I actually never put those there myself, but they're probably there because of all the efforts (including the Fan Force) when Moore's Galactica was moving into production. So revivalist must be there for that. And because of all that back then, is why I feel now there is even less desire by TPTB to hear from the fans.

And the phrase "we all want" is tricky because is it what the original BSG fans want, or the main audience is wanting from a movie called Battlestar Galactica. They are looking at what they think a mass audience is going to want, and what a small group of original series fans want is not going to sway them too much. Yes it sounds defeatist, but that may be where I am. My Battlestar Galactica has moved on, and its now in the hands of others. Maybe I'll like what they do, maybe I won't . Either way I've realized too that 5 years of moaning won't do me any good. So I'll see it if/when it comes out. I may like it, I may not. I can hope they learn some lessons from the Star Trek movie, and go along those lines. And how many fans had all their complaints (and still do) about that movie? JJ still made the movie he wanted to make, controversy and all. I felt we lucked out with JJ Abrams. Hopefully we'll luck out with Singer.

Whether its good or bad, I won't be complaining for years to come. My Battlestar is what it is. Maybe I'll like what it will be. Maybe I won't.

Did that explain any of my sub-avatar? I may have side-tracked.
Hi David,

So it did used to stand for something then?

It would stand for something again if we managed to get some concessions included in the new project and it turned out to be a good film!

Come on! Don't give in!!!

BEst
Gene
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Old October 25th, 2011, 06:29 AM   #14
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Default Re: Influencing the diection of the new BSG movie

Regardless of what anyone thinks about this new venture, it's the biggest thing to happen to us in many a long Yahren.

When production starts it'll be the only thing we are all talking about and the minimal amount of traffic visiting this site will spike dramatically.

We need to be a part of it now, forget the past, and jump at this chance.
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