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Old August 22nd, 2004, 08:42 AM   #1
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Default Mystery to me

I'm not trying to start a flame, but I must admit feeling baffled by all this devotion to TOS. The writing just doesn't seem that great. Most of the characters were either frankly evil or purely noble. I still enjoy watching it from time to time, but I don't have anywhere near the attachment most of the posters here apparently have.

I agree it was unfair to hijack the title. But if they hadn't, I might not have tuned in to check it out. With all the dreck on the Sci-Fi channel these days, it's usually not worth the effort.

The miniseries was like a breath of fresh air. The attention to detail in dialogue, characterization, and plot was comparable to a John Le Carre movie. (That means I liked it.) The special effects did just what they were supposed to do; they kept me immersed in the story, without being either too cheesy or too flashy. I wouldn't call it perfect, but it had a ring of truth to it.

I can hardly wait until January! It's about time the public sees some quality science fiction.
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 09:09 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by twixter
I'm not trying to start a flame, but I must admit feeling baffled by all this devotion to TOS. The writing just doesn't seem that great. Most of the characters were either frankly evil or purely noble. I still enjoy watching it from time to time, but I don't have anywhere near the attachment most of the posters here apparently have.

Wonder no more. It's all right here, in the reading. Just a little research is needed since we tend to "wear our devotion on our sleeves", in addition to having it in our hearts.

Welcome to the Fleets!

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Old August 22nd, 2004, 10:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by twixter
I'm not trying to start a flame, but I must admit feeling baffled by all this devotion to TOS. The writing just doesn't seem that great. Most of the characters were either frankly evil or purely noble. I still enjoy watching it from time to time, but I don't have anywhere near the attachment most of the posters here apparently have.

I agree it was unfair to hijack the title. But if they hadn't, I might not have tuned in to check it out. With all the dreck on the Sci-Fi channel these days, it's usually not worth the effort.

The miniseries was like a breath of fresh air. The attention to detail in dialogue, characterization, and plot was comparable to a John Le Carre movie. (That means I liked it.) The special effects did just what they were supposed to do; they kept me immersed in the story, without being either too cheesy or too flashy. I wouldn't call it perfect, but it had a ring of truth to it.

I can hardly wait until January! It's about time the public sees some quality science fiction.
Welcome to the fleets Twixter ......
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 11:13 AM   #4
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Hello Twixter welcome to Fleets


by way of intro and explanation...

Most of us here at fleets saw TOS as children filled with wonder and excitement and awe. We fell in love with it and our love for the show has carried through all these years. TOS captured a time of innocence in our lives were the distinction between good and evil were clearly delineated as it is to a child. The bad guys were evil and the good guys were noble and heroic. TOS told the story of an epic battle between humans and machines where the struggle for human survival came perilously close to the edge of human extinction. Against all odds the more valorous part of human nature prevailed and together they set out on an epic journey through space and spiritual discovery in pursuit of their lost tribe, and a new world.

It was told in a romantic, fairytale like way that captured our imaginations and our hearts. We feel loyalty towards TOS because it set a standard of human conduct that many of us used as a guide to live by (friendship, family, honour, faith) it has come to define who we became as people, hence the reason why some of us take it so much to heart and personally.

This is how I feel about it, but having said that I did enjoy the mini although like many here I too wish they had given it a different name it would have eliminated a lot of hurt and anger for many.
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 12:06 PM   #5
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Twixter,

I would also like to welcome you to the Fleets.

Although I am a fan of BOTH BATTLESTARS GALACTICA, I too must say that the Classic TOS in particular holds a very fond place in my heart. As a kid, this was Star Wars on TV for me (and I mean that in a favorable light). In fact, if I recall correctly, although I knew the story of Star Wars well (as recounted by my friends) I saw BATTLSTAR GALACTICA before Star Wars.

As with Rowan (hi Rowan!) I must concur that the original BATTLESTAR GALACTICA represented a time in many of our younger lives when we still had clearly defined heroes to look up to and model ourselves after, and villains to despise (and ....perhaps...model ourselves after )

The reasons why the original BATTLESTAR GALACTICA may have turned out the way it did are given very clear perspective by Richard Hatch interviews conducted by members of the Cylon Alliance. However, even though I get to catch reruns of the show occasionally on Sci-fi channel, (I SOOOOOO want the box set!), I cannot bring myself to deride the original at all. It has the fondest of memories in my heart, because as an adult, I can appreciate and understand the limitations of the era it found itself in.

My love for the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA comes at NO expense to the memory and loyalty of the original. My views may perplex many solidly TOS fans here (hello brothers and sisters), I have an easier time of reconciling the two shows, and accepting them as seperate, very different, yet very legitimate entities which bear the same name.

To many people on this board, the name BATTLESTAR GALACTICA is synonymous with "Family Entertainment". It was something that they could sit down and share with their kids because the show did not have overly graphic violence, the sexual innuendoes were kept to the standards and practices of the era, and it had Muffit. It also had clear examples for younglings to follow.

To many people on this board, the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA (which many, very understandably, cannot bring themselves to refer to the new show by this name) represents the antithesis of everythjing they felt the original BATTLESTAR GALACTICA stood for. Granted, the new show presents things in a somewhat more realistic and gritty representation, but it also is not quite the family show. It is definitely geared toward adults. Many of the characters have been changed in the miniseries, to barely be shells of their original characters in TOS. However, with that said, my humble opinion is that there are going to be some positive changes coming to the new show, in regard to some of the characters, and their relationships with other characters in the show. (Apollo and Adama for example.)


It may surprise you to know that even some of the cast of the new show actually DEFER to the original characters in TOS when it comes to meeting original series actors. In one of the interviews I had read with Mr. Hatch, he states that none of the new series actors had any "attitude" whatsoever with him being on the show, and were quite pleasant, and friendly. A perfect example was his meeting Jamie Bamber, who plays Lee "Apollo" Adama. Apparently, Jamie said something to the effect of, "You know, Richard, my character's call sign may be Apollo, but I feel that my character is Lee Adama I don't think of myself as Apollo." A very flattering and deferencial statement if I ever I heard one from one professional actor to another. My respect for Mr. Bamber increased ten fold.

Anyhoo, I agree with BST's advice. Read some of the threads on this board that more properly relate the solid TOS fans' feelings and emotional impacts about the new show, and how it relates/clashes with the original series. You will find many, many level headed and well reasones people on this board...many of whom have my UTMOST respect.

The fandom of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA has endured very dark times with the onset of the new series, much of it occurring well before the mini-series had aired. This was due largely in part to very irresponsible individuals who decided to shake up the fandom with negative views, insults, cloning, and rumors. Fortunately, much of that dark time has passed , and a new era of peace between fans of either or both shows has come to see the light of day. The Colonial Fleets is a shining example of that era of peace.

We are all friends here, Twixter, and I think, speaking on behalf of the Fleets, we would like to welcome you as a friend. I would like to welcome you as a fellow new series fan. Just keep an open mind to the feelings of TOS series fans, and their understandable frustrations with not seeing the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA legacy properly revived in their eyes. We have all waited a long time for our heroes to return to the big (or small) screen in some way. Many of us have gotten a different flavor of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA with the arrival of the mini-series, and impending arrival of the new series. Many others do not like the new flavor.

In the end, that is what makes us human, and to me, in the end, that is what both BATTLESTARs GALACTICA are about. "What makes us human?"

Respectfully,
Martok2112
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 01:40 PM   #6
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Hi Twixter,

It's about an experience in specific point in time of your life. It how you reference that time of your life with friends and family and what was going on. For me, I was teenager and getting into Sci-Fiction, i.e, Star War, Star Trek (the movie), and TV show like Buck Rogers and Galactica. It about collecting the TOS cards or getting together with friend and talking about the cool fighters and the Cylons.

25 years later...well, I get can the models and the DVDs and such, which brings back fond memories of the special moment in time. I too, like the new mini and look forward to the series but it not going to be the same. I am not going to look back 25 years from now and have that same feelings. Even if a continuation was made, I don't believe that magic from my childhood could be recaptured.

Maybe new BGS will be part of the childhood memory that others will look back with fond memories.

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Old August 22nd, 2004, 03:01 PM   #7
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Default Wow!

Thanks so much for all your kind responses! I was born in 1954, and although I remain very immature for my age, maybe I was too old to get hooked on it when it came out. I did watch it a lot at first.

One part of the old series story I did find fascinating was the sequence involving Count Ibli and the "city of light." There was one scene where Baltar recognizes Ibli's voice as that of Imperious Leader. That implies that Ibli programmed Imperious Leader. I would have liked to have seen the story behind that, how the Cylons came about in the first place. But I guess that would be an entirely different story, and now it has been shunted into oblivion by the new plot line. But I don't know if my (relatively) more adult sensibilities would truly enjoy that story the way I expected to. And the new concept that humans made the Cylons probably has more depth to it.

Hm., looks like I'm straying off topic, whatever the topic was. Thanks again!
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 03:16 PM   #8
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Hm., looks like I'm straying off topic, whatever the topic was. Thanks again!
How can you stray off topic when it's your topic
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 04:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan
Hello Twixter welcome to Fleets


by way of intro and explanation...

Most of us here at fleets saw TOS as children filled with wonder and excitement and awe. We fell in love with it and our love for the show has carried through all these years. TOS captured a time of innocence in our lives were the distinction between good and evil were clearly delineated as it is to a child. The bad guys were evil and the good guys were noble and heroic. TOS told the story of an epic battle between humans and machines where the struggle for human survival came perilously close to the edge of human extinction. Against all odds the more valorous part of human nature prevailed and together they set out on an epic journey through space and spiritual discovery in pursuit of their lost tribe, and a new world.

It was told in a romantic, fairytale like way that captured our imaginations and our hearts. We feel loyalty towards TOS because it set a standard of human conduct that many of us used as a guide to live by (friendship, family, honour, faith) it has come to define who we became as people, hence the reason why some of us take it so much to heart and personally.

This is how I feel about it, but having said that I did enjoy the mini although like many here I too wish they had given it a different name it would have eliminated a lot of hurt and anger for many.
Well said Rowan!
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Old August 22nd, 2004, 04:49 PM   #10
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Hi Twixter!!!!

Welcome to Fleets!!!!

i'm one of the old fans too. I think most fans really like this show cause it had alot of heart. ABC did alot of things wrong, but they paid alot of money to get the best personel they could get. The actors are great and the series special effects were the best TV had ever seen. Probably the best quality effects until the Star Trek Next Generation with its computer generated effects.

Battlestar's major faults come from the rush speed ABC forced out of it. They believed at the time that the Star Wars phenomenon was a quick fad, and they wanted to catch the bandwagon before it ended. So they rushed BG. The show never had time to prepare for a new series. When Richard Hatch began filming his scenes, his name was Captain Skylar! The show was so rushed, that stories sometimes had to be written practically overnight. Some dialog for scenes werent finalized until AFTER the scene was shot. And of course they didn't have the time (or money) to keep up the effects of the original pilot, so they recycled footage.

Most of us forgive those faults, cause they weren't the show's fault. It was ABC causing it.

And one major factor we like the show better is cause it felt the epicness of the devastation of the colonials. You saw the fleet go to pieces. You saw people running for their lives as raiders bombarded the cities. And you saw a crew in pain grieving for their lost worlds. The nobility you see come out of that is no less true than the nobility you see of firemen who when the World Trade Center was hit ran UP into the building. Its that kind of mentality that the old show captures. And why people love it.

The core of the show was the how the best of what we will survive under horrible devastation. Family, Courage, Heroism, Self Sacrifice.

Its a romantic optimistic view.

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Old August 22nd, 2004, 05:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas7g
Hi Twixter!!!!

Welcome to Fleets!!!!

i'm one of the old fans too. I think most fans really like this show cause it had alot of heart. ABC did alot of things wrong, but they paid alot of money to get the best personel they could get. The actors are great and the series special effects were the best TV had ever seen. Probably the best quality effects until the Star Trek Next Generation with its computer generated effects.

Battlestar's major faults come from the rush speed ABC forced out of it. They believed at the time that the Star Wars phenomenon was a quick fad, and they wanted to catch the bandwagon before it ended. So they rushed BG. The show never had time to prepare for a new series. When Richard Hatch began filming his scenes, his name was Captain Skylar! The show was so rushed, that stories sometimes had to be written practically overnight. Some dialog for scenes werent finalized until AFTER the scene was shot. And of course they didn't have the time (or money) to keep up the effects of the original pilot, so they recycled footage.

Most of us forgive those faults, cause they weren't the show's fault. It was ABC causing it.

And one major factor we like the show better is cause it felt the epicness of the devastation of the colonials. You saw the fleet go to pieces. You saw people running for their lives as raiders bombarded the cities. And you saw a crew in pain grieving for their lost worlds. The nobility you see come out of that is no less true than the nobility you see of firemen who when the World Trade Center was hit ran UP into the building. Its that kind of mentality that the old show captures. And why people love it.

The core of the show was the how the best of what we will survive under horrible devastation. Family, Courage, Heroism, Self Sacrifice.

Its a romantic optimistic view.

That's the TYPE of VIEW I like! Like I said before to Aaron .....
I'm holding out for HOPE
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Old August 23rd, 2004, 09:51 AM   #12
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Twixter wrote:

Quote:
I can hardly wait until January! It's about time the public sees some quality science fiction.
Well, we did see some quality science fiction back in 2002... but, FOX cancelled it. The good news is that we will see it again on the big screen in 2005.

It would be difficult to add to the words of Rowan, Warrior, and others... as a I agree with every word they said... but will add this. Inasumuch as the real Battlestar Galactica represents an entire era of our lives... we, as adults, most certainly did not expect (nor did we want) to see a continuation that was straight out of 1978. As we have matured, we expected our Battlestar Galactica, along with its heroes and villians, to mature as well. We did not want, nor did we expect, to see the same rushed (sometimes bubblegum) scripts of yesteryear, or episode after epiosde shot on Universal's Western set on the backlot, complete with shiny mylar cowboy hats.

No, as we matured, we wanted to see more mature stories to go along with the more mature Starbuck, Apollo, and Boomer. We wanted to see the promise of TOS, unemcumbered (or, at least, as unencumbered as possible, even today) by nitwit studio suits who remain without a clue as to what makes for "quality science fiction." We did want stories with more grit, more drama, more depth (and special effects to match) to carry our glorioius childhood memories forward into our adult sensibilities.

Our devotion to TOS stems from the wonderment of our youth, and our knowledge of what that story could be today on the evolved television landscape of the 21st Century. But we wanted the heart of the show to remain intact. We still wanted our heroes to be larger than life... not perfect, mind you, but people to look up to, admire, and for whom we could root... and count on to do the right thing. We wanted our machine villians to be all the more menacing, but still the unadulterated incarnations of pure evil to whom we were introduced in our childhood... not softcore incarnations of unadulterated sexual desire.

Yes, we wanted... and expected... more complex, compelling stories of humanity... on the brink of extinction... struggling to survive in the face of an unrelenting foe... an enemy of vastly superior numbers, devoid of humanity, compassion, or caring... played out each new week by both faces familiar from our childhood and new characters whom we could embrace as part of that wonderful Universe created so many years ago by Glen A. Larson.

We wanted the promise realized.

In short, we wanted what Tom DeSanto was planning to deliver. What we very nearly had.

Richard Hatch is correct when he says there were a million different ways to bring back Battlestar Galactica, but in my mind the only correct way is the one that I have outlined above, one that continues and expands upon the original, maintains the mythology, themes, and values of the original in. A production that reintroduces us to original series characters (portrayed by original series actors) leading a new generation of Colonial Warriors in an evolved original series Universe, with an attention to detail and quality storytelling that was never, ever afforded the show in its original incarnation. And, most importantly, a show that allows us to view that Unvierse with the mind of an adult, and the heart of a child.

That's where RDM missed the boat... and that's why I believe that no matter what he does with his series... he'll never be able to catch it.

But it's not too late. The Colonial Fan Force was formed to move the real Battlestar Galactica to where it belongs... on the big screen. Fans who feel just the way I do, that Warrior does, that Rowan does, have thrown $12,000 into a pot to send that message to the Hollywood establishment. Now we need to follow up that message with more personal correspondence to those who are in a position to make it happen. The plan is posted at http://www.colonialfanforce.org.

I believe that the future of the RDM show is as bleak as the characters he has created. But that is immaterial, as I believe that the future of Battlestar Galactica is as bright as the ship of lights.

The great ship Galactica will fly again. And I can only hope that the fans will continue to stand together, rising to speak with one voice, to make sure that we have done all that we can do to see that it happens sooner rather than later.

Welcome to Colonial Fleets.

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Old August 23rd, 2004, 11:19 AM   #13
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Amen, Taggart you just summed up in a few paragraphs something I just tried to communicate over at the Cylon Alliance!

Got my CFF postcards writing this week!
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Old September 7th, 2004, 10:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by twixter

The miniseries was like a breath of fresh air.
If by "Breath of fresh air" you mean "Runs over a dear old friend in a huge Cadillac, backs over him a few times, laughs during the funeral, then later digs the body up and doodles on the face with a black Sharpie and dresses him up like Tim Curry in the Rocky Horror Picture Show" Then I would wholeheartedly agree that the new show is indeed QUITE a "Breath of fresh air"


You'll have to forgive the sarcasm. I view BSG as a dear old friend. I played Starbuck at recess constantly back in 3rd Grade. You'll have to forgive me when I see something I care about cheapened into lowest common denominator trash designed to appeal to a crowd that equates quality with T&A content. Not saying youre one of them of course. Baywatch didnt last so long because of gripping storylines, thats for certain.


Im glad you have something you like. Really I am. But you got it at the expense of a legion of fans who kept the spirit alive only to get forsaken and ignored in return or their vigilance. We probably will never get any sort of continuation now if the new series becomes successful.


Of course, Im speaking only on behalf of myself.

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Old September 7th, 2004, 11:11 PM   #15
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You are not alone, twixter.

I find the new show to be more satisfying to my tastes today, while I am younger than you and did enjoy the old show as a child.

Perhaps if I was involved in an effort to revive BSG over the past few years I would be in the opposite camp.
As I was not, I can enjoy the new show without feeling betrayed.

Sometimes, devotion to the original show seems to take on a missionary zeal. But, at the right moment, we can all enjoy the good qualities of the original series, and have a chat about it, the new show, and a few other topics of interest.
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Old September 8th, 2004, 07:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Dr Syn
If by "Breath of fresh air" you mean "Runs over a dear old friend in a huge Cadillac, backs over him a few times, laughs during the funeral, then later digs the body up and doodles on the face with a black Sharpie and dresses him up like Tim Curry in the Rocky Horror Picture Show" Then I would wholeheartedly agree that the new show is indeed QUITE a "Breath of fresh air"


You'll have to forgive the sarcasm. I view BSG as a dear old friend. I played Starbuck at recess constantly back in 3rd Grade. You'll have to forgive me when I see something I care about cheapened into lowest common denominator trash designed to appeal to a crowd that equates quality with T&A content. Not saying youre one of them of course. Baywatch didnt last so long because of gripping storylines, thats for certain.


Im glad you have something you like. Really I am. But you got it at the expense of a legion of fans who kept the spirit alive only to get forsaken and ignored in return or their vigilance. We probably will never get any sort of continuation now if the new series becomes successful.


Of course, Im speaking only on behalf of myself.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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