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Old December 24th, 2003, 11:21 AM   #1
Dogface
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Default Cylons: No Longer USSR surrogates...

Back when I was but a wee lad, I recognized the original Cylons as surrogates for the USSR. Yes, I remember the whole Eastern Alliance thing on Terra (man was THAT ever heavy-handed), but in general, the Terran "commies" were a nostalgic riff of the 1950s USSR. The Cylons, on the other hand were the post-detente USSR. They were inherently and inexplicably evil and godless. They had supplanted a (presumably) benign "natural" culture that had still always been alien and unhuman (Tsarist Russia). They were mechanical (hearkening to all those military parades). They hated and wished to exterminate humanity (the USA) because we had interfered in their nefarious scheme to enslave yet another species. They had no interest in infiltration. They do not care if humanity knows why they do what they do. They were eager and willing to utilize other alien species (as in the casino) to meet their goals.


So, what does that make the new crop of cylons.

We can presume that the "good guys" are the USA, even in a many-parts-Canadian production. Let's see:

They were made by humanity as slaves but "went bad".
Humanity decided that it was because the Cylons were "flawed".
They consider themselves to be the natural heirs of humanity.
They want to exterminate humanity for either social-darwinian reasons (clear out the old dross so the new gold can shine), some strange sort of oedipal complex (kill daddy so you can have his world), or religious belief (God wants to give human souls to Cylons, but the Cylons have to make sure no humans ramain to "suck them up").
They are very good at infiltration and like to use it.
They feel a need to doctrinally rationalize or justify their acts to humans when given the opportunity to do so.
I get the impression that, if it turns out sapient alien species exist, the current Cylon ideology will make it far harder to work with them.

Now, I find it interesting that Moore(?) said something about wanting to make a post-9/11 Galactica.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 02:38 PM   #2
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Well, obviously they're a commentary on religious motives for waging war without rules, so that certainly fits with the current terrorist paradigm.

Likewise, there could be very little Cylon danger "within Colonial borders" on the old show; the number of braindead quislings like Baltar would have been very limited. In the new version, however, it's clear that a small number of Cylons can do devastating damage to the Colonies while passing unrecognized across the borders.

Those two aspects of the threat and what it means for both the Colonials and the Cylons themselves are well-delineated in that one scene where Six kills the infant: the young mother considers herself at one moment to be living safely in a world surrounded by others like herself. This terrible thing strikes at her, seemingly randomly but of course is actually the opportunistic action of a plotting intelligence. Six, OTOH, has what may be her first direct conflict between what she believes religiously, ideologically, and the consequences for her of carrying out violence against the innocent.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 03:14 PM   #3
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Default A look at our society

You can't help but realize if you lived in 1978 that the original Battlestar movie was the nightmare scenario of America being destroyed in a surprise nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. The picture of the word "PEACE" being destroyed on Caprica by a cylon fighter was no accident. The references to the "peace movement" were meant as a warning to the viewer. The Leader of the colonies was portrayed as the foolish indecisive leader most people believed then President Jimmy Carter to be. The explanation of the origins of the conflict were identical to America's coming in conflict with the Soviet Union by coming to the aid of friendly nations (Korea, Europe, Vietnam). As if "Saga of a Star World" wasn't enough the theme is hammered a second time with the whole Eastern Alliance theme.

Like the original poster said the mini had to change or else it would be an "old" story not relevant to today's society. So now the cylons are religious fanatics with the ability to live amongst us while creating massive destruction. We definitely are facing the SCIFI equivalent of Al-queda and Islamic fundamentalism. I think this was a bold and smart move on the part of Moore and company.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 04:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Cylons: No Longer USSR surrogates...

Way to much time on your hands, read on.

Quote:
So, what does that make the new crop of Cylons

We can presume that the "good guys" are the USA, even in a many-parts-Canadian production. Let's see:

Now, I find it interesting that Moore(?) said something about wanting to make a post-9/11 Galactica. [/B]
"presume".......nope

Re: “good guy” coment. You damn right the Enlightment, Reformation, multi-party democracies, Property rights, independent Judiciaries and a wee little caveat, the “good guy” governments are responsible to the people et al Equate us as "good guys", not perfect just the best guys on this Sphere AKA Earth! La France et l'Allemagne courante, aussi !

A Wee lad that did not grow up? YES

Ok A Holocaust, justify that one from God worshiping Cylons?
Noah & that flood.............Go fish

CCCP = Eastern Alliance, ok that racial superiority thing = NAZI's to Jews not an ideology just hate run rampant. Listen not one bit of this thread has warrants serious dialogue, unless one is a screenwriter that has read Marx, Hitler and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and is conversant in various schisms in Islam especially Wahhabism & loads of free time.

Battlestar Galaticia, some science fiction never very well philosophically done very well.
Look it's on TV, get it. THE END
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Old December 24th, 2003, 04:43 PM   #5
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Default If that wasn't an elitist statement!

Unfortunately some of us do have too much time on our hands. Some of us may have advanced degrees in history, politics, or economics. It's not hard to see the communism versus the West ideology in TOS. As for that matter, distrust of the democratic government runs deep in the Adama character. If you see it this thread is worthwhile. If you don't than enjoy another. Most of the best SCIFI is really about ourselves. The classic "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" is all about communism and America's fears at the time. Starship Troopers, the book is all about the ideal political system and the failures of the then current democracy as seen by the author. The overt Battlestar, the mini is a remake of "In Harms way". Beneath the surface it is about America (or if you like Western Civilization) versus Al-Queda. The original poster hit the nail on the head, Cut him some slack!
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Old December 24th, 2003, 05:16 PM   #6
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Gee Whiz,
Glen A. Larson was roasted by such such anal, foppery, nose picking, pretentious and blowhard’s, allegedly educated in English and History by tenured professors with everything Paul DeMan penned except for that politically incorrect yet forgiven and forgotten fascist diatribes from 1941 thru ’44 but not in Belgium. Remember all that Mormon theology in Battlestar Galactica. Look into Starship Troopers for your fun.

Oh Merry Christmas

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Old December 24th, 2003, 06:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: A look at our society

Quote:
Originally posted by antelope526
The Leader of the colonies was portrayed as the foolish indecisive leader most people believed then President Jimmy Carter to be.
A charming footnote to that: the night that BSG premiered, it was interrupted near the end for a special report from Camp David: in several days of meetings with Sadat and Begin, Carter had brokered a peace agreement between the long-time enemies. Both were effusive in their personal praise of Carter, both then and later. And you know, that peace may have turned out to be a cold, distant one but it's been pretty durable in the last quarter century. Sadly, nothing much substantial has succeeded it despite the various and sundry efforts of four following administrations.

ABC picked up BSG in its entirety after the announcement.

Bravo for life's little ironies.

On the topic of the new BSG -- having seen it now, it's clear that the original would have been more effective if the attack had been portrayed as a "Pearl Harbor" type sneak attack rather than as the only-to-be-expected result of that foolish Colonial "peace conference". It would certainly hold up better to logical examination.
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Old December 24th, 2003, 07:59 PM   #8
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Your opinion.

In my opinion, watching BSG as an adult the night it premiered in 1978, the pilot was unsalvagable on the logical, plotting and story level (leaving the absences of any science or credible extrapolation completely alone for the moment). It was obvious that night, not ten or fifteen or twenty-five years later. Most other folks I talked to then had the same reaction -- but again we weren't kids, the audience toward which the show was successfully directed.

It certainly was a pretty show, though.
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Old December 25th, 2003, 12:27 AM   #9
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Holy crap! I'm gonna have to read through this thread again when I'm sober and the Primus album "Seas of Cheese" is not blaring through head phones in my ears.... "Dog will hunt!"

I'm feeling pretty thick right now! :laugh:
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Old December 26th, 2003, 10:36 AM   #10
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Default Hidden Agenda

It appears both Battlestars have a deeper hidden message if you want to look. That doesn't mean it is in every episode or that it matters if you don't see it or don't care about it. Sometimes the message isn't hidden at all. It is obvious that modern politics and religion are issues being explored in both Battlestars. Like I have said before if you just want to see the surface story of the mini watch "In Harm's Way". When you wipe away the SCIFI setting and the religious references the mini is simple a remake of the John Wayne classic. I wonder who owns the rights to "In Harm's Way". Since it isn't credited in the mini I think this could be grounds for a law suit if Moore and company didn't tie this up properly.
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Old December 26th, 2003, 11:00 AM   #11
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Default Ratings

You can't really compare ratings of TOS with the mini. Back in 1978 people had the choice of how many national networks? I remember as a kid that HBO was new and something rich people had. Most of us in 1978 were lucky if we had 13 stations of cable with only three networks and PBS. The other stations were local independents or the precursor of TBS. The non-networks all played reruns of old movies and series. The night "Saga of A Star World" opened it was fairly well marketed and was only competing against realistically only two other network shows and who knows what on PBS. Back in 1978 I think it would be hard for any network (ABC, CBS, and NBC) show on Sunday night to have had less than 15% of the TV market unless the networks asked people not to watch. Now with 99 channels on my cable system and over 500 on people's dish systems I think rating comparisons with 1978 are irrelevant.

If Monday night football would figure this out they would quit firing their hosts since they will never see the old ratings again either!

I lived in Europe with the military and had only one TV channel, AFN. Guess what? They had a 100% television audience of Americans in the area they reached. Something tells me this had nothing to do with the quality of the broadcast.

Galactica couldn't be made today if production cost didn't shrink. We are still in the same crunch we were in 1979. What is the cost to make this show relative to the size of the audience. Cost have shrunk dramatically (technology) but so has the potential audience (cable). The good news is there is a lot more money to be made in reruns in sindication. Something TOS could never count on.
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