What would you think of RDM if...

Darth Marley · July 21st, 2004, 10:56 AM

Imagine a reality in which the RDM "reimagining" did not exist.
Instead, some kind of continuationist's fantasy was made that satisfied 95% of BSG fans.
Imagine RDM had never touched BSG.

Live in that world for 5 minites.

Now tell me what your opinion of RDM's body of work (excluding the BSG mini...it never existed in this world) would be.

Dawg · July 21st, 2004, 11:04 AM

What a wonderful concept. Blissful, in comparison, to this - but the hunger for BSG remains constant in both places.

My view of RDM's body of work is the same there as here: he did a darn good job in the Star Trek universe (Kirk's death notwithstanding - which, BTW, I really didn't really object to in the context of the film). He's a talented writer.

Within limitations.

I am
Dawg

thomas7g · July 21st, 2004, 01:04 PM

I agree witht he above. At first I was excited about him being on the team to make a new galactica. But was really appauled by the his teams disregarding all the things that made BG so good.

I thought he did great on Trek too. Minus the really weak ending to Kirk's death. you would think given the history of this character they would have written a more interesting ending.

From watching what he has done since trek, I've been dissapointed. He seems to work great on a team. But on his own, his characters lack charm. The main difference between his Roswell and Smallville, which was virtually the same, was that Smallville's characters were incredibly charismatic. You cared about them. You couldn't help but become smitten with the characters.

My biggest criticism of him is that he gives his characters problems in a way that make them annoying. Like his Roswell characters were all soo damn anal retentive. Same with Lee Adama. And Kara was a butchy bitch. Whereas I see other similiar shows give characters conflicts that draw you in. I loved the new young Lex trying to deal with his dad. You really hoped he would overcome his father. Lana is adorable. Clark is fun too.

But then he also has great promise. And great imagination. Especially when dealing with spaceships and battles.

KJ · July 21st, 2004, 01:12 PM

Are you a Sliders fan Marley?

KJ

Darth Marley · July 21st, 2004, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason

Are you a Sliders fan Marley?

KJ

I like Sliders, but do not obsess over it.
I think I watched the first season and a half.
Writing on it I thought was hit and miss.
The premise was a bit too episodic for my taste. It is a given that by the end of the episode, the merry band of heroes would make the slide, unless some kind of contract dispute is going to change the cast. Not much in terms of recurring characters, except for the villain in the latter seasons, and the cabbie in the beginning. I imagine a devoted fan could correct me on this point, bringing up recurring characters that span across the different worlds like the cabbie, but I do not run deep enough with that show to be aware of such characters.

peter noble · July 21st, 2004, 01:55 PM

I think RDM is a good writer of TV SF, which doesn't mean he's a good SF writer (there is a difference).

His work history is that he's good at playing in other people's universes but has yet to 100% create his own.

The day he does that might be the day he starts along the road to becoming one of a writing/producing legend like Cannell, Bellisario, Johnson, and yes, Larson.

I don't think he understands what makes Galactica, Galactica and doesn't have any respect for its concepts, characters, the original creator or fans of the show.

Peter

amberstar · July 21st, 2004, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter noble

I think RDM is a good writer of TV SF, which doesn't mean he's a good SF writer (there is a difference).

His work history is that he's good at playing in other people's universes but has yet to 100% create his own.

The day he does that might be the day he starts along the road to becoming one of a writing/producing legend like Cannell, Bellisario, Johnson, and yes, Larson.

I don't think he understands what makes Galactica, Galactica and doesn't have any respect for its concepts, characters, the original creator or fans of the show.

Peter

Well said Peter!

CommanderTaggart · July 21st, 2004, 05:38 PM

I would always have admired him and respected him for his work on DS9. People lump that show with the other Trek spinoffs, but I think it stood head and shoulders above, and took Trek in a bold direction and explored new ground in the way no other Trek redux has managed to duplicate. I sympathized with his plight on the Voyager set, and respected his reasoning in wanting to get off that show.

That he screwed the pooch so badly with Galactica, from day one... coming out and publicly stating that the show was remembered by "but a few," and dismissing its fans as "popcorn" seekers... has been a constant source of amazement.

I see him only as self-serving arrogant thief now. But I agree with Peter: he plays well with others, so long as those others are in charge.

KJ · July 22nd, 2004, 12:56 PM

Quote:

I don't think he understands what makes Galactica, Galactica and doesn't have any respect for its concepts, characters, the original creator or fans of the show.

You hit the nail on the head Peter. why does old hollywood hire guys to do projects they don't respect? Spider-Man 1 and 2 work because Sam Raimi loves and respects Spider-Man and everything associated with him and Marvel comics properties. X-men works because singer and DeSanto respected the material they were working with and just plain love the X-Men franchise.

Harve Benett (or however you spell his name) respected the Star Trek franchise and made 6 movies that rebooted Star Trek to begin with.

Ron Moore doesn't respect Battlestar Galactica. which is why all the popcorn low blows won't or doesn't mean 'JACK' far as the fans of Galactica are concerned. Yes at one time or another he had my respect for doing TNG and DS9. Roswell is another matter however?

And untill he does his own material he will always be just another writer. It's true. sooner or later to really make it big. You need to do something original that you have done and gone with it to the studios to sell and run with.

Not playing with other people's toys. Or better yet playing with other people toys and saying that it's something else, which it's not? I.E. Ron, when you were a kid. Don't put you friend's "toy" starship Enterprise in the bath tub and call it a boat!

A boat's a boat, a ship's a ship and Battlestar Galactica is BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and doesn't need, sex changes and other crap like, humanoid Cylons, handjobs, lotto's to get off the planet or die games and it's core story ripped apart.

Nuff said.

KJ

BST · July 22nd, 2004, 07:12 PM

I can't think of much to add except that I agree with the sentiment that Moore is not the "devil incarnate". Deep down, he's a good man, who has done some very good work on ST. I enjoyed his work on TNG and DS9. But, his work on BG leaves one to wonder if he has forgotten all that was good in the world. It boils down to a matter of taste and passion. Moore's passion was NOT Battlestar Galactica, it was putting his name on a different type of story with some recognizable icons.

I honestly believe that the show might have actually attracted more viewers and possibly a higher "approval", if you will, if it had been named something other than Battlestar Galactica.

Sorry to drag the mini-series into this response but, it was necessary for the sake of comparison.

amberstar · July 22nd, 2004, 07:23 PM

Quote:

I honestly believe that the show might have actually attracted more viewers and possibly a higher "approval", if you will, if it had been named something other than Battlestar Galactica.

I agree with that BST! If it had gone by a different name and had different names for the actors, I just may have watched.

I liked Moore's work on STNG, but what hed did to BSG was just not my cup of tea.

nccdee · July 22nd, 2004, 07:30 PM

I believe Ron Moore done good work. I certainly enjoy watching ST:NG and DS9.

What happens now? Well, he is a producer now and he has a writing staff. The mini has proven itself. The Original Fan may not like it but its a fact. But a mini is not a series make. The stories are being written, the episodes being put on film and only time will tell whether a new generation of viewer will make it their favorite Sci-Fi series or it will just fade away.

BTY: I also enjoyed watching the reruns of TOS Galactica, which was on the Sci-Fi Channel today.

nccdee

oldwardaggit · July 22nd, 2004, 08:34 PM

Yes Ron is a good writer but no, he isn't a fan of Battlestar Galactica. The proof is in the finished product and his comments. you won't catch a fan of anything, going on more about all that was wrong with it. Most fans tend to focus on the good stuff. I really like a show but hate most of it, makes no sense.

It's too bad too because Moore is a good enough writer that if he would have teamed with a real fan like Tom Desanto, we would have gotten a show that all could have liked for the most part.

I'm not a big fan of Black Scorpion but if I was offered the job to bring it back, I would take it but would the fans like what I bring to the table? probably not because I just don't get it.

I watched the mini for the first time tonight and besides some uses of names and the look of the vipers, it just wasn't worth calling this BSG.
OWD

July 22nd, 2004, 08:42 PM

The mini proved itself in the fact that many people watched it. There is no way of measuring how many of the people who watched it enjoyed it. Time will tell if the success of the mini will translate into sucess as a series. As for Ron Moore, I liked most of his work on the various Star Treks. If it was not for office politics, he would still be there. I have not viewed any of the other non Trek or Galactica mini so I cant comment in that area.

Charybdis · July 23rd, 2004, 09:20 AM

bijou brings us a good point about watching something and then actually liking it. Yes, the mini brought some good ratings for a Sci-Fi show for a special mini series event.

However, the numbers do not say how many people were turned off by what they saw. The real proof will be in the continued numbers in the ratings of the weekly show next year. Now that will say a lot...

I however will not be adding to those numbers because I did not watch the mini and will not be watching the series...

shiningstar · July 23rd, 2004, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Marley

Imagine a reality in which the RDM "reimagining" did not exist.
Instead, some kind of continuationist's fantasy was made that satisfied 95% of BSG fans.
Imagine RDM had never touched BSG.

Live in that world for 5 minites.

Now tell me what your opinion of RDM's body of work (excluding the BSG mini...it never existed in this world) would be.

While I wouldn't be angry at him for contaminating bsg I would still be angry
at him for what he did to ENTERPRISE. That was a brilliant show .......one
that because of it being SOOOO DEPRESSINGLY DARRRRRRRK I no longer
will watch.

thomas7g · July 23rd, 2004, 06:19 PM

Shiny, uhmmmmm....Enterprise wasn't him.

After working with Berman and Braga and making ST:Next Generation and DS9 so great, Berman and Braga kicked him out of the Trek franchise.

So Moore wasn't to blame for Voyager or Enterprise.

July 23rd, 2004, 06:41 PM

I believe that Moore was once a good writer that got Bermaned and Bragaed over time. If you want someone to blame for Enterprise, the guilty parties are Rick Berman and Brannon Braga. They are shlock meisters of the first rank. For some unfathomable reason, Moore took a page from their book when he wrote the mini.

shiningstar · July 23rd, 2004, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas7g

Shiny, uhmmmmm....Enterprise wasn't him.

After working with Berman and Braga and making ST:Next Generation and DS9 so great, Berman and Braga kicked him out of the Trek franchise.

So Moore wasn't to blame for Voyager or Enterprise.

WHOAH ......THAT I didn't know .......
and they want to know why no one is watching Voyager or
Enterprise ...........maybe they need to let RDM go from RDM MINI
and go BACK to STAR TREK .................

Maybe that's why RDM is so bitter. Because he was fantastic on
STNG, and DS9

Voyager and Enterprise are down right depressing

Thanks for the INFO

Ronald If you're reading this for blaming you for enterprise .......
I owe you a BIG apology. And I do APOLOGIZE.

shiningstar · July 23rd, 2004, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijou88

I believe that Moore was once a good writer that got Bermaned and Bragaed over time. If you want someone to blame for Enterprise, the guilty parties are Rick Berman and Brannon Braga. They are shlock meisters of the first rank. For some unfathomable reason, Moore took a page from their book when he wrote the mini.

Thanks BIJOU

So my whole out look is different ..........I'd still like Moore for the
good he did with stng and with ds9 but have my claws
EXTENDED for
berman and braga

amberstar · July 23rd, 2004, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nccdee

BTY: I also enjoyed watching the reruns of TOS Galactica, which was on the Sci-Fi Channel today.

nccdee

You mean I missed it!!!!!!

*I knew reruns would be on this month, but I had the dates confused.*

thomas7g · July 23rd, 2004, 09:26 PM

awww..... I hope you at least saw the new episodes of Stargate.

Shine, Berman and Braga are considered by alot of fans to be the bane of trek. They also forced out Roddenberry's wife. They also were pushing out Roddenberry back when he was alive.

When Moore was pushed out of Trek, alot of the crew felt bad and they made a real Battleth (sp?) which is a Klingon sword for him.

shiningstar · July 24th, 2004, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas7g

awww..... I hope you at least saw the new episodes of Stargate.

Shine, Berman and Braga are considered by alot of fans to be the bane of trek. They also forced out Roddenberry's wife. They also were pushing out Roddenberry back when he was alive.

When Moore was pushed out of Trek, alot of the crew felt bad and they made a real Battleth (sp?) which is a Klingon sword for him.

How nice of them. I was appalled that shine, Berman and Braga forced
Roddenberry's wife out. I hadn't realized before they forced out MOORE too;
or that they were trying to force out Roddenberry when he was alive.

I think it's wonderful that the crew stood by Moore and made him a real
Battleth .......I think if I had been Moore I would have been tempted to
use it.

shiningstar · July 24th, 2004, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amberstar

You mean I missed it!!!!!!

*I knew reruns would be on this month, but I had the dates confused.*

They'll be on in August too Amberstar. So hang in there.

thomas7g · July 24th, 2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

I was appalled that shine, Berman and Braga forced
Roddenberry's wife out.

uhmmm.... Shine...is you.....

shiningstar · July 24th, 2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas7g

uhmmm.... Shine...is you.....

Happily married and UNARMED since 1985

You're safe Thomas don't sweat it

shiningstar · July 24th, 2004, 01:55 PM

I'm a scifi lover what can I say

nccdee · July 24th, 2004, 04:50 PM

There is a saying "Gone but not forgotten" I am amazed how old things can be new again or simply wanting to look back at things even if just for laughs. Just take a look at VH-1 success of "I Love the...." series. AMC (that's American Movie Classic) has even gotten into the game with its DVD-Extra Movie or its Pop-Up Video-style movies (Willy Wonka was great). They did a great job doing the Planet of the Apes Marathon, complete with documentary with Roddy McDowell (boy, sad that he is gone).

Several years ago they did a Star Trek special of TOS, where the actors hosted certain episodes and make comments. That was fun.

I love the DVD technology, especially when they provide commentaries. Unfortunately, I heard that there was not much with the BSG (TOS) DVD collection. As for the deleted scene, I was able to see them at some websites.

Having actor/director or the such, host an episode (the show would be an hour and 1/2 long), it would breath new life for syndication. (my prayers would be answered if they would do this Space:1999).

Well, it just something I wanted to through out there to everyone.

As for Sci-Fi and writers...After the last couple of not-so-good years, I have hope. The 4400 and Stargate Atlantis looks very promising. I am thinking about taking a second look at Fire Fly and I am happy to hear that "Family Guy" is coming back (ok, it not sci-fi but it very politially incorrect and funny).

nccdee

shiningstar · July 24th, 2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nccdee

There is a saying "Gone but not forgotten" I am amazed how old things can be new again or simply wanting to look back at things even if just for laughs. Just take a look at VH-1 success of "I Love the...." series. AMC (that's American Movie Classic) has even gotten into the game with its DVD-Extra Movie or its Pop-Up Video-style movies (Willy Wonka was great). They did a great job doing the Planet of the Apes Marathon, complete with documentary with Roddy McDowell (boy, sad that he is gone).

Several years ago they did a Star Trek special of TOS, where the actors hosted certain episodes and make comments. That was fun.

I love the DVD technology, especially when they provide commentaries. Unfortunately, I heard that there was not much with the BSG (TOS) DVD collection. As for the deleted scene, I was able to see them at some websites.

Having actor/director or the such, host an episode (the show would be an hour and 1/2 long), it would breath new life for syndication. (my prayers would be answered if they would do this Space:1999).

Well, it just something I wanted to through out there to everyone.

As for Sci-Fi and writers...After the last couple of not-so-good years, I have hope. The 4400 and Stargate Atlantis looks very promising. I am thinking about taking a second look at Fire Fly and I am happy to hear that "Family Guy" is coming back (ok, it not sci-fi but it very politially incorrect and funny).

nccdee

I wouldn't mind them bringing Space 1999 back I liked that one.

August 4th, 2004, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiningstar

I wouldn't mind them bringing Space 1999 back I liked that one.

Shhhhhhh, not so loud... Bonnie could see this.
Can you imagine that show with a guy named Mayo who turns himself into some yellow paste and from there can take any shape he wants?

Hi everyone, i know it's been a long time since my last post but here i am again.
Now i'm off to catch up with things here at CF.