Enough is enough, damn it!

ojai22 · February 14th, 2004, 02:52 PM

This just came through the bg.com mailing list. It's the last part that is more unsettling:
-------------------------------------------------------

All systems go for 'Battlestar' By Kate O'Hare, Knight Ridder, 2/14/2004

After a pilot miniseries for "Battlestar Galactica" delivered impressive ratings last December for
Sci Fi Channel, the cable network has given the green light for 13 one-hour episodes, likely to
begin production in Vancouver in the spring.

Moore does hear the concerns of fans of the original series, who have been very vocal throughout
the long process of bringing "Battlestar" back to the screen. "I've always thought about trying to
revisit a couple of the old episodes," Moore says. "And I'd like to approach some of the actors
from the old show to do some roles here. I still mean that. I don't have anything against the old
show, and any elements I can pull from it that will work in this universe, I think will be a lot
of fun."

And that includes original star Richard Hatch, a fan favorite who tried to launch a "Battlestar"
sequel. "Hatch looks great," Moore says. "It would be great to have Richard on."
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NO, NO, NO, NO! The actors appearing in the new series would definitely interfere with the Larson continuation movie, and I can't help but think THAT is Moore's motive for his offer. A good continuation movie might jepardize the new series' chances of success, or not. Whichever, they appear to be thinking ahead to the consequences of a continuation movie with the original cast.

He has a new show which many say has aspects that have been culled from many other shows, now he wants to rob BSG of anything else he can find?

FUN? Sure, it would be 'fun' to watch the Larson movie go down the drain and add some creativity to the new series as well.

Original Cast - WAIT FOR THE LARSON MOVIE, PLEASE!

ojai22

Micheleh · February 14th, 2004, 03:11 PM

*snort* As if. Richard's already told them no once. My magic 8 ball says 'no way, Jose'.

Darth Marley · February 14th, 2004, 03:14 PM

I don't think a continuation film will be in the works early enough to cause the RM series any grief.

I understand your loyalties. I just don't think RM is deliberately trying to derail your dream. He is just persuing his.

Dawg · February 14th, 2004, 04:29 PM

What RDM is trying to do is feather his nest. He thinks that to bring on a TOS actor will bring in more TOS fans, and increase his audience.

I expect Micheleh's assessment is the correct one.

I am
Dawg

BST · February 14th, 2004, 05:27 PM

Agreed. Another possibility is that he could be looking way down the road towards a big screen venture. This would be the first step. TOS actors in the new show would be an attempt to give the show legitimacy in the eyes of 'staunch' purists. Note, I'm not saying all TOS fans, because there are many TOS fans that also enjoyed the mini.

(I suggested this, today, in a bit more detail, in the 'Mini-series is crap' thread.)

BST

kingfish · February 14th, 2004, 05:55 PM

You said it Ojai. Us loving this new show doesn't help a Larson project (Continuation or other) in any way, shape, or form

jewels · February 14th, 2004, 06:51 PM

Kingfish, the mini effects the continuation thing only positively in the eyes of people that finance movies: that is what Larson & DeSanto tried to tell us. Because *an* audience tuned into the mini, they are taking it to series. Taking it to series gives the name marketing viability again (in those film financing folks eyes). Thus Larson walks in and says "by the way I hold the feature film rights, free and clear to the original series, which broke all sorts of sales records for a TV series released on DVD." Finance types will perk up at that. That's how the mini-to-series can help the continuation.

Ojai, don't worry about original cast selling out. They know what they were a part of 25 years ago, even more than we do, and they know what the Moore thing is. Entirely different caliber of quality.

BST · February 14th, 2004, 07:27 PM

Good words, Jewels.

Your thoughts are right on the money and it does make us Continuation folks AND 'new-BSG' folks rather strange bedfellows. Moore's show going to series does help us by getting the name back out there. It's something similar to there being no such thing as bad publicity.

It's up to us to keep our interests in the forefront to those who can deliver.

Muffit · February 14th, 2004, 07:31 PM

All I can say is to reiterate my belief,

You have not lost when you are defeated; you are only lost when you admit defeat.

To stay true to one's beliefs is nearly always the hardest thing you will ever have to do, especially when everything around you says you can't win unless you give in. But the truth is, if you run the course, right to the finish line as who and what you are, you will always be a winner in someone's eyes.

A star is not famous because he can perform, a star is famous because he has performed. Stardom is for a day. A memory is forever.

Micheleh · February 14th, 2004, 07:39 PM

"The mini effects the continuation thing only positively in the eyes of people that finance movies: that is what Larson & DeSanto tried to tell us. Because *an* audience tuned into the mini, they are taking it to series. Taking it to series gives the name marketing viability again (in those film financing folks eyes). Thus Larson walks in and says "by the way I hold the feature film rights, free and clear to the original series, which broke all sorts of sales records for a TV series released on DVD." Finance types will perk up at that. That's how the mini-to-series can help the continuation."

I can just as easily argue the opposite POV with the same facts.

Taking it to series gives the new project name viability, and detracts from any other, otherwise why is this being made and not them? Execs don't know, don't want to know the facts and the stories behind decisions. On film = good, not on film = failed.

Larson walks in with rights... they say, "Oh, that old series. If it was so great, why was it re-written?" (See above formula.)

I don't rememebr Larson or DeSanto saying in any interviews that the mini's success will have a positive effect on backers of a continuation. Got sources?

Does Larson hold the movie rights, free and clear to the original series? Got sources?

amberstar · February 14th, 2004, 07:49 PM

Well said Muffit!

Amber

BST · February 14th, 2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micheleh

I don't rememebr Larson or DeSanto saying in any interviews that the mini's success will have a positive effect on backers of a continuation. Got sources?

Does Larson hold the movie rights, free and clear to the original series? Got sources?

No, Michele, I don't. Do you?

ojai22 · February 14th, 2004, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micheleh

I don't rememebr Larson or DeSanto saying in any interviews that the mini's success will have a positive effect on backers of a continuation. Got sources?

Thanks, Micheleh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micheleh

Does Larson hold the movie rights, free and clear to the original series? Got sources?

Only the word of those who attended GalactiCon and told us what Larson said. Thomas posted it in a thread here at CF, though what he's posting now is different, which I don't understand.

:confused:

thomas7g · February 14th, 2004, 08:39 PM

Dirk Benedict had a coffee meeting with Katee Sackhoff to promote the new series. The world did not end. Larson and Desanto did not suddenly throw in the towel.

Its just a tv show. The actors could use work. I say give them a part on the new show. Give them a damn good part. The actors are people who could use some cash. They aren't rich.

here is my post from another thread on the same subject:

Quote:

On the otherhand it could show how charismatic these guys still are, how photogenic and how well they can still act. And also how much people still want to see them. There will be publicity, ads, interviews. All of which will be good PR for them. And by that a good reason to put these guys on screen again. Show that these guys can pull in an audience, and that's a big positive step toward continuation.

of course the fans could always kill this "positive step" too. Probably will.

thomas7g · February 14th, 2004, 08:48 PM

Both Larson and Desanto discussed how the miniseries's success isn't directly related to the move toward continuation. The success or failure doesn't mean necessarily anything positive OR negative. I heard both Larson and Desanto say that repeatedly at the Galacticon. Over and over.

I've also heard that Larson did finally win his rights full and cleanly from Universal (in a court of law I presume).

Micheleh · February 14th, 2004, 09:12 PM

"of course the fans could always kill this "positive step" too. Probably will."

What is that supposed to mean?

(To clarify- as the leader of serenity island, you of all people should recognise the potential for misinterpretation and the instigation of arguments in such an open ended judgement.)

repcisg · February 14th, 2004, 09:47 PM

Baltar is no JR Ewing, which is what RDM will need of he is to get beyond 13 episodes. From what I've heard and read neither Richard nor Dirk are too impressed by the mini.

And yes they could use a paycheck, but if a continuation movie proves potentially far more profitable. They may not be willing to risk it for the short-term paycheck RDM is offering. We will need to leave the final decision to them and trust in their judgment.

jewels · February 15th, 2004, 06:22 AM

And those 2 especially seem to exercise pretty good judgement. Good words, repcisg.

Michelle, I only remember from Galacticon the shock in the room when Larson said that the mini doing well could help the continuation movie. It only made sense in Hollywood's screwy logic. And DeSanto being asked about it the next day and saying that what mattered more than that was interest in the original story remaining strong.

Guess what? Interest in the original GAINED from the mini. People liked the mini and wanted more: they bought or rented the DVDs of the original. Some of them were reacquainted with an old friend some introduced to a new one (possibly a new one that was older than themselves). If you notice the mini fans that have stayed around here generally like TOS too. Granted, a die-hard mini-only fan is probably better served elsewhere on the net: but we've still only had one person say they'd only want the mini on our little poll. Interest hasn't waned in TOS, it's gained. And in the Hollywood movers and shakers eyes (since quality is something only a few on the number crunching end pay attention to) you have a name and a base concept that got good viewership. The original is still popular and holding it's own 25 years out from it's original airing--the DVD sales prove that.

The potential is there. And it's a tested concept with a tested marketing path if they'd look at how Trek did in the theaters. Until Larson or the studio that agrees to do it, announce it, we are all just second guessing what may come. I do believe it will come. It's just a matter of time.

braxiss · February 15th, 2004, 08:30 AM

all i can say is that i would rather never see a continuation that have the the original actors in this scifi channel crap!!!!!

ojai22 · February 15th, 2004, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels

Michelle, I only remember from Galacticon the shock in the room when Larson said that the mini doing well could help the continuation movie.

It's possible for the mind to play tricks on you....

The post below is from a thread started by Thomas.

-------------------------------------------
* #1
thomas7g
Webmaster/Administrator
*

*
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Serenity Valley
Posts: 2,269

What Glen Larson said about revival
------------------------------------------------------------------------

he said he paid a large sum of money to get back the rights to a Galactica Movie. he said he can even do the version with walking vipers if he wanted to, though that's not something he is interested in.

But he said he is waiting. Alot depends on how the audience changes after the mini airs. Will the vast public, and the fans of BG migrate over to the new one and forget the original? or will demand for a continuation stay strong?

if there is a demand he will do what he can to make it with DeSantos.
__________________
Tom's art
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The bold emphasis is my own. I have asked two other people who were there if this is indeed what Larson said and they both said Yes, it is.

Also, when I said I didn't understand why Thomas had changed, I didn't mean I didn't understand what the words meant. I don't understand why he changed directions. But that's okay. This is going nowhere.

Any actor who accepts a part in the new series will probably ruin his chances of being in the movie....unless the series is a big success and they want to make their own movie from the series, which is the only way they can make a big screen movie.

Seeing one of the original actors in a small part in a remake of anything is always disheartening to me. It's so obvious why they're there. Rather pathetic, too.

I wish you all well.

ojai22

Dawg · February 15th, 2004, 10:40 AM

I'm going to post something I said over at CA this morning:

Quote:

Fans matter. Fans = money, so fans matter.

Follow me on this.

We weren't successful in getting the continuation for two reasons. First was the timing - the mini had its green light before we were able to react. It was a done deal before we had any kind of idea what was happening. It would have taken an act of God once the ball got rolling.

Then there was the sheer numbers of fans who lobbied against the mini; the numbers were small enough that, despite their - our - highly vocal nature they were easily ignored. I say small numbers because there were so many of us running off in different directions, doing our own thing, fighting amongst ourselves, unwilling to come together. It's been said we've been our own worst enemy; I think that statement bears a germ of truth.

Because of all this, nobody felt concessions to the fans needed to be made.

We lost that battle; in fact, we didn't have a chance. But we can learn a tremendous amount from it, which will make winning a "fight" for a continuation movie much more realistic.

Timing: the timing is now perfect. There's nothing on the drawing board. We have time to recoup. We have time to put something together. We want it, and they know we want it but they need some indication of how many of us want it. They need to see some indication of profit that can be made.

Our numbers are still small, even with the influx of fans who came because of the mini. We can also be very easily fragmented because of our individual beliefs and ideas about what makes BSG BSG.

That must be put aside. When the time comes (it will be soon, I think), we must put aside our differences and put our money where our mouth is. If we want a continuation movie we can't run around the playground playing our own little games, we must be a team, all heading in the same direction.

Can we count on each other to do this, to be there for each other? We will find out, won't we?

I remember, very clearly, the reports from Galacticon about what Larson and DeSanto both said. I remember, very clearly, hearing (but not fully believing) that they felt that the mini doing well could increase the interest in TOS, and that if there was still a good interest in TOS (either because of or in spite of the mini), then the continuation movie could become a reality.

I finally understand what that means.

1. The mini has put the name "Battlestar Galactica" back out there.

2. There are a great many people who tuned in to the mini (liking it or not) who remember TOS fondly.

3. Some of those people searched out internet sites devoted to BSG. Including CF.

4. Those people would also like to see a contiuation movie, ideally helmed by Larson and DeSanto.

5. Hollywood logic is not, necessarily, common sense.

I don't think I need to do the math for anybody.

I am not going to advocate support for the mini (or the series, if we ever see one), but I'm not going to advocate working against it, either. My activism is going to be directed at one goal: a continuation movie.

So, while from my own, narrow perspective, I would be very disappointed to see any TOS actors appear in an RDM series, I am not going to let that or anything else distract me from this goal.

I am
Dawg

Micheleh · February 15th, 2004, 11:15 AM

"People liked the mini and wanted more."

Yes, but we've been repeatedly told that fans don't matter.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket... in my experience of business (which may have nothing to do with Hollywood) bean counters look at tangibles.

My guess? I have the feeling that the decision makers give thier input to the bean counters, who either approve or not. These people (BC's) look at the stack of propositions, the proposed justifications for expenditute, and their overall bottom line. As far as influencing factors, I would guess that they would be things like controlling forces (like the execs who sign their checks), resources (like advertisers and promoters, who supply the cash to function), and political alliance (whoever they owe or want favors from).

I don't see this as excludigng the voice of the fans (consumers) though- it just has to be presented properly. The advertiser boycott was an excellent idea. A better idea, though, I think, would be to get a voice on the inside. Someone close to the decison makers, who can actually be lsitened to. Aaron is inside, to an extent. Don is, now. (Congrats!) Who else?

Whatever the goal, we need to focus on result, not on the players (on either side, expressing whatever opinion). There has been talk of blame on all sides, Milton's fault, now the fans' fault... this just wastes energy.

Yes, fans = money, but only if we paint a very clear picture for the bean counters and power brokers and favor mongers of exactly how that equation works.

Darth Marley · February 15th, 2004, 11:45 AM

One thing to think about in terms of how to affect the money men's views.
Buying the TOS DVDs is likely a one time event. It is a durable medium, and is not likely to need replaced, unless forced by hardware changes.
If TPTB conclude that issuing new product to an audience can be profitable, both from an ad revenue stream, and an aftermarket sale of DVDs, then they might conclude that the need to issue new product to be able to put new discs in the hands of loyal consumers.
By this I mean, if no continuation project, then a sizable market will buy a competing product rather than stick with a brand loyalty. No need to continue to buy what you already own.

I appreciate the post Dawg. I have minor issues with the TD story, but the fact is, if I were involved in online fandom 2 years ago, I would probably be closer to your previous position than the one I am at just tuning in with the RDM product.

martok2112 · February 15th, 2004, 12:52 PM

I can have the best of both worlds. A superior new television series of Battlestar Galactica, and the wonderful Classic Galactica. When I get them both on DVD, they will sit side by side in perfect harmony in my DVD collection. Should a continuation movie come out for Classic Galactica, i will welcome it with open arms. Should the new series go to crap, i will dump it.

But until then, I am given the benefit of two AWESOME GALACTICAS.

'nuff said.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

ojai22 · February 15th, 2004, 04:34 PM

For many months I have been asking fans to work toward a continuation movie if that is what they want. The mini came and went and was a different project entirely. I have never advocated working for or against it, nor have I done so. I just want everyone who wants a continuation movie with the original cast to work toward that goal.

Reacting to Moore's comments is a total wast of time. I apologize for making that mistake.

So long, folks.........ojai22

Raymar3d · February 15th, 2004, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojai22

Any actor who accepts a part in the new series will probably ruin his chances of being in the movie....unless the series is a big success and they want to make their own movie from the series, which is the only way they can make a big screen movie.

Seeing one of the original actors in a small part in a remake of anything is always disheartening to me. It's so obvious why they're there. Rather pathetic, too.

I wish you all well.

ojai22

Hey Ojai,

If it was a cameo role, I'd totally agree that it would not be worth it for them to be involved.

On the other hand, a serious important role, such as Commander Cain.... That would be a good role for either Richard or Dirk to take on, and I would support them if they got it.

All I can see is that they'd have a good chance to show once again just how awesome they can be! And, IMHO, the suits upstairs would then have to see that the ratings increase is worth considering a continuation movie with them.

Ideally, even better, would be some sort of crossover, with them as Apollo and Starbuck, on the original Galactica, in a parallel universe, or a different timeline, but I don't see that happening. So, just giving them a chance to be a huge ratings boost, could prove their marketability again.

That's all the frakkin' suits ever look at, anyhow.

But I'd rather see Richard Hatch as Cain, than Don Johnson. Frankly, Richard, Dirk, Herb, Anne, Laurette and the rest deserve the work if they can get it. There would be no mini without their work in the first place. But I think only meaningful roles, with the possibility of recurring are worth it. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it to any of them from a fan standpoint.

But let's just say that Cain and the Pegasus don't disappear at the end of the story this time around.... The classic Battlestar, commanded by Richard Hatch would be very, very cool, even in the mini universe.

And, once more, this is only a 'what if' scenario. I don't know any of this is true, just my speculation.

Ken

Muffit · February 15th, 2004, 06:23 PM

* Posted at a similar thread... *

Please forgive, but I would rather pluck my eyes out with a plastic spoon.

To see either Dirk or Richard give up their honor and character for what would most likely be pittance anyway would hurt too much. No offense to those of you who like the new show (truly!), it's just that even if they resurrected Lorne Greene and gave him a role I wouldn't watch (and I don't think I'm alone), so it would likely backfire anyway.

I wouldn't agree to having a fake daughter live with me just so that I /might/ see my real daughter for just 2 hours. I have a big heart, but I don't want to fill the empty corners of it with pain, sorry.

I apologize to all my friends who do like the mini/series for my honesty. We all have some beliefs we can't compromise I guess.

Darth Marley · February 15th, 2004, 06:39 PM

I am not offended by such a stand.
I think the idea is to try to appease, but the suggestion itself is backfiring.
I doubt the actors would do it, but I wouldn't hate them if they did.

martok2112 · February 15th, 2004, 07:07 PM

I don't think I've ever chimed in on this particular aspect before...so if I may.

I also think it would be wrong for Richard Hatch, Dirk Benedict, or any other TOS cast member to appear in the new mini, no matter how enticing. This is a different kind of animal.

It is one thing to have original cast members of Trek appear in the Trek spinoffs, because said spinoffs are continuations of the Trek universe.

Not so with the new Galactica. It is a retelling, with its own ideals and takes on the classic story. It would be nothing more than appeasement to the point of being a placebo to have TOS actors appear in the new show. The new show can stand on its own legs without the need for TOS actors. I would love to see the TOS actors appear in a TOS continuation, but no matter what the reasoning, I too, being a fan of BOTH shows, would see it as nothing more than pouring salt onto the wounds of those who have felt cheated by this new show. I respect much of what RDM has done, but I could not abide this if it were to be so.

I say this from the bottom of my heart. I do know how those stolid TOS fans feel, and I stand with them on this particular issue.

LONG LIVE ALL FANS OF GALACTICA,
martok2112

amberstar · February 15th, 2004, 07:32 PM

I wouldn't think any TOS actor as being a "traitor" if they were to be on Moore's show. It should be a major part and not a cameo. If they were on the show I'd be tempted to watch, but I know my heart would break again to think of what could have been.
I never thought about Richard being Cain, he would be good playing that part, but
Everyone here knows I'd rather see Richard as Commander Apollo in a continuation

The actors know how to play Hollywood's games, and I'm sure they will do what is best.

Amber