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Old April 13th, 2006, 12:37 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Titon
Quote:
Hes got good business sence and will certainly succeed in his career.
Er this is to funny to even comment on. Business sense? Sorry Tabbi, not even freakin close!


Agreed. It's more along the lines of being opportunistic. He was offered the role, by Moore, and took it regardless of his previous stance with respect to the overall project.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 12:38 PM   #122
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Unfortunately, Tabbi, there are people who curse and vilefy the very name of Richard Hatch just because he took a recurring role on the new show...and it is those members of the TOS fanbase that give the rest of TOS fandom a bad name. They view him as a traitor to the cause of continuation...and quite immaturely paint RH in a bad light. I can understand and respect that some people don't put the same credibility on Richard's voice that they once did....but those who paint him straight up as a traitor, I cannot respect that myopic view.

Such people seem to have it in their heads that RH would've been better rewarded to stick to his guns, and continue being a voice for continuation. As far as I know, he still is a voice for continuation....but now his words ring hollow to many TOS fans....and speak blasphemy to many others.

Sticking to your guns does not pay the bills.

Ultimately, it's a job that pays the bills.

In general address I say that as for business sense... well....without trying to turn this into TNS discussion, but I must ask the question:

"Which show is currently going into its third season? Battlestar Galactica."

That is all I will say. Folks...do NOT allow this to devolve into a discussion we know is forbidden. Perhaps I shouldn't have even said what I said.


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Old April 13th, 2006, 12:57 PM   #123
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Then, let me ask this -- what worth is placed on his previous condemnation of the project?

Was it not worthy of the Galactica name, in his eyes, until he was offered a job?


2 points that are very important to me - Words and Deeds.

Both are an important measure of a person and I use them constantly.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 01:15 PM   #124
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Anyone can change their mind.

I used to condemn Matchbox 20 and their ilk in my early career as a singer because I thought they were a bunch of whiners in their songs....until I started singing their songs, and then I realized how much fun they were. A lot of people respected me because of my stance on alternative rock, and thankfully I've not lost their respect when I've ended up singing it. In fact, it was more like, "Hey, Steve, that's great. Welcome to the 21st Century." Why do I do it? Because it's fun, and because it makes me money. Hell, I even sing "Smells Like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana sometimes....and I STILL don't like that group...but the song is fun to sing. (Now, if I can just get the lyrics straight)

Same thing for RH. Now that he's actively participating in the show, he's probably seen the new show as a fun endeavor, and it makes him money. Doesn't mean he's sold out. Just means he's doing what it takes (within reason) to keep a paycheck coming in.

Besides, this is not like we're talking about a political leader who pulled a bait and switch on his consituents at the last minute. Just talking about a guy who loves his craft.


So, it falls back to my original take.

Sticking to your guns does not pay the bills.
Doing your job pays the bills.
It applies to me as a musician, and it applies to Richard Hatch as an actor.

In the end, nobody owes us a blessed thing when it comes to Battlestar Galactica. It's not ours. It's theirs (being Universal, Glen A. Larson, and Ronald D. Moore).

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Old April 13th, 2006, 01:34 PM   #125
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Personally, I'll never condemn someone for taking a job they don't want or doing something they don't like in order to make ends meet. Hell, look at me - I've worked jobs I absolutely despised.

So - Richard working on GINO is nothing to condemn him for, and I think almost everybody has gotten past the initial shock of his accepting that role.

We can debate his sincerity - condemning GINO at first, now praising it, whether it's genuine or typical Hollywood PR-BS - but knock the guy for taking a paying gig after a long dry spell? Not likely.

And, finally, it's my take that in some of these posts we're standing a bit too close to the line about discussing forbidden subjects; too many back-handed (or even direct) references in today's posts.

Let's keep to the subject, or if that discussion is over let's just allow this thread go away.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 02:01 PM   #126
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Unfortunately, Tabbi, there are people who curse and vilefy the very name of Richard Hatch just because he took a recurring role on the new show...and it is those members of the TOS fanbase that give the rest of TOS fandom a bad name

This had nothing to do with Richard Hatch taking a role in a television show. It has to do with how everyone percieves him as being a great business and economic mind. People that have good business sense make decisions based on what is offered to them at the time of attack, not changing to perfect something that may or may never become reality.

There is a great misconception as to who and what mister Hatch is. Is he a business man? A writer? An actor? A producer?

Who the hell knows!

Quote:
Which show is currently going into its third season? Battlestar Galactica
Been down this road wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to many times to even think about getting into it verbally ever again.

Can someone tell me why in the hell i even decided to post?

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Old April 13th, 2006, 02:03 PM   #127
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being Universal, Glen A. Larson, and Ronald D. Moore
As much as i've hated both Universal and Glen A. Larson for sitting on there collective rear ends and not doing the right thing by Galactica please don't ever associate ownership of this property with Ron D. Moore. That's something personally that i would have to commit harry karry over if it ever transpired.

*shudder*
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Old April 13th, 2006, 02:31 PM   #128
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I agree with Dawg, and even forewarned about this subject possibly starting tread where it shouldn't. I think all that has needed to be said has been said, and I am not opposed to seeing this thread resolved and closed.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 02:34 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Titon
As much as i've hated both Universal and Glen A. Larson for sitting on there collective rear ends and not doing the right thing by Galactica please don't ever associate ownership of this property with Ron D. Moore. That's something personally that i would have to commit harry karry over if it ever transpired.

*shudder*
Just remember, amigo, I do not post anything to antagonize. It is simply a point of view.

Also, just remember, these are just TV shows...not a life-altering or affecting experience.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 03:17 PM   #130
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not a life-altering or affecting experience.
As much as i would love to agree with you i have to say my friend this is very far from the truch. If it were not a life changing experience you and i would not be conversing on an obscure website about this perticular subject.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 04:24 PM   #131
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Well my last words on this are simply...
I used to look at cheerleaders and think "How damn dumb can you get?" but then I was offered a scholorship cheerleading, and I took it. Why? I cant pay for college. Im from a trailer trash background. I swallowed my pride and accepted what was offered because it paid the bills. And I dont have to love what I do, but I do it, because someday I will have the education and money to take my mom out of that horrible park and give her the life she deserves.
I used to like *It* more than peanut butter and jelly. I posted raves about it, but I changed my mind. So am I to be marginalized too? Is that how it goes? If we think one way, but then have a change of heart and stand for what we believe is the right thing, does that mean we lose credibility? Here I was actually raised in credibility AFTER I changed my opinion. But to those who still prefer the other show, I suppose I must be lower than pond scum. Well, so be it. But Im still the same girl as ever. Im still spewing the same crap on here as ever. (Sorry but I know my posts suck) and Im still trying hard to be a good person, and getting it wrong. But Im trying. And so is Mr Hatch. Hes trying to do what he believes is right. And if we accept that or not, it changes NOTHING. He is still the same Apollo as before, just older, and maybe a little wiser. And I stand behind my statement about his business sense. He is the one on TV making money, and Im wiping dishs in the back of a Dennys on weekends. He is the one with the successful acting career and fans and signing autographs. We are not. So from where I stand, id say hes done on with his life, and we could all learn a little from him. Its only when the bitterness of realizing your a Brown Coat fades, and the serenity of accepting that we were on the right side, it just happened to be the losing side, that you can look at this all without the special vision that only lets you see what you want to see.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 05:02 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabitha
I used to like *It* more than peanut butter and jelly. I posted raves about it, but I changed my mind. So am I to be marginalized too? Is that how it goes? If we think one way, but then have a change of heart and stand for what we believe is the right thing, does that mean we lose credibility?
tabbi

This statement sums it up beautifully, Tabbi. People have a right to change their minds And you're right. I've seen it on both sides of the fence.

"I used to be a hardcore TOS fan, but now, after I've watched a few eps of the new show, I'm like ....'what 70's show?' And people on the TOS side vilefy me for it."

"I really used to enjoy TNS until it took a wrong turn, and now I'm giving TOS a chance. And the fans of TNS think I'm the worst kind of scum now."

Sad state of affairs in fandom. But, it's always been the way. Fans are fickle. Fans are "fanatics", which means a near blind-adherence to the nature and merits of their favorite properties.

I really wanted to avoid this, but it must be said:

TOS fans love the original show, and pretty much support each other when the chips are down. However, many think that if you're a fan of the new show...you're more of a mindless sycophant. That is MOST insulting....and I know those who harbor such sentiments don't have the huevos to say such things to my face.

To them, we are GINOids, sycophants, stealth marketers, supporters of baby-killing, rape, masturbation on TV, and other amoral acts.....pretty much anything except a fan of a show called Battlestar Galactica. Again, condescending, and insulting. They refuse to understand.

Truth be told, we all as fans of shows called Battlestar Galactica could be considered supporters of the worst kind of crime, if you wanna be fair about it:
GENOCIDE.

Titon, as far as BSG being a life-altering/affecting experience....to a certain degree I can agree with you on your point of view. Where I speak of is that the property of Battlestar Galactica is something we can just as easily live without.

Yes, we love discussing the shows....sometimes ad nauseam....but I don't know if that truly qualifies as a life altering/affecting experience. When I think life altering/affecting experience, I think: "I used to be the worst kind of person in the world, but now, after watching Battlestar Galactica, I turned my life around, and now I am a highly respected lawyer in New York."

That is why I don't put as much reverence into either show. Respect, yes. But I cannot afford to put either show so high on a pedestal. BSG (the property as a whole) did nothing for me except give me some entertainment when the shows are on. Yes, I might be writing fanfiction for it.....as a labor of love....but otherwise, I go on about me normal routine.

Sorry, need to go to gig.
Catchall later.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 08:09 PM   #133
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Folks,

Tie up any loose ends on this conversation. The thread will be closing some time tomorrow.



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Old April 13th, 2006, 08:24 PM   #134
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Not all GINOids - at least, not the two or three genuine fans I know - fit the description you propose, Steve - but regretably, many of the personalities we see (real or otherwise) do (see my Dawg's Bark column on the subject).

And I also take issue with the thought that BSG wasn't a life-altering event. For me, it certainly was, although it took many years for it to take root and blossom. It was this show, warts and all, that made me want to become a real writer, to develop my talent and write professionally. This was the key inspiration - now all I need is a visionary publisher...

Anyway - it's no different for Hatch. He was a part of it - and Apollo is the one character that he's truly remembered for, and remembered fondly. He was on a season of Streets of San Francisco - the show that rocketed Michael Douglas to stardom - but he won't be remembered for that role, or any other part he's played on TV or on film. He'll be remembered for Apollo - a one-season role - long after his San Francisco cop and this latest bad-guy role of his are little asterisks on his resume. Longer if he can reprise that part in a genuine, well-constructed continuation effort.

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Old April 13th, 2006, 11:26 PM   #135
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Folks,

Tie up any loose ends on this conversation. The thread will be closing some time tomorrow.

2008.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 12:08 AM   #136
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Sept 17th, 2008.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 12:25 AM   #137
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Not all GINOids - at least, not the two or three genuine fans I know - fit the description you propose, Steve - but regretably, many of the personalities we see (real or otherwise) do (see my Dawg's Bark column on the subject).

And I also take issue with the thought that BSG wasn't a life-altering event. For me, it certainly was, although it took many years for it to take root and blossom. It was this show, warts and all, that made me want to become a real writer, to develop my talent and write professionally. This was the key inspiration - now all I need is a visionary publisher...

Anyway - it's no different for Hatch. He was a part of it - and Apollo is the one character that he's truly remembered for, and remembered fondly. He was on a season of Streets of San Francisco - the show that rocketed Michael Douglas to stardom - but he won't be remembered for that role, or any other part he's played on TV or on film. He'll be remembered for Apollo - a one-season role - long after his San Francisco cop and this latest bad-guy role of his are little asterisks on his resume. Longer if he can reprise that part in a genuine, well-constructed continuation effort.

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Points well taken, John.

Lemme say however that in all honesty, the first life altering stories for me (believe it or not) were the Harry Potter stories. That was the first time I really ever attempted fanfiction. (At some point in their sixth year...which is now canonically represented by "The Half-Blood Prince"). It was shot down because I based my character descriptions on what I saw in the movies.....not in the books, which I had not read until I moved to Huntington, WV. (By that time "Order of the Phoenix" was the current installment.)

For example, I described Hermione Granger as having full blonde hair (as per the movies) when in the books she is described as having "bushy brown hair".

Then again, I had an ex-Marine manager who said I was a blonde (when I clearly had brown hair.) I never imagined meself as a blonde.

The stories I've written for Galactica were to show that a continuation in which the RTF discovers Earth could actually work. "Dark Exodus" and "Reciprocity". I poured my heart and soul in those to appeal to my TOS brethren, but it was definitely not the result of any life-affecting experience per Galactica. It was a stroke of luck that my fanfics were so well received by the TOS fanbase...and even some in the TNS set.


Now, as some of you may be aware, I am working on MY OWN reimagining of "Saga of a Star World". I am writing this under the premise of "What if RDM's Galactica DID NOT exist, and yet, Universal (instead of going with a logical continuation) still chose to do a reimagining/reinvention of Battlestar Galactica?" I wanted to write this as something that would appeal to both TOS and TNS fans. My reimagining involves characters from both shows. John, if you recall, you seemed to like the way I introduced a certain (TNS) character...and I am continuing to keep her very likable throughout the story.

Anyhoo...enough shameless self-promotion.

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Old April 14th, 2006, 12:39 AM   #138
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Hermione Granger has light to medium brown hair in the movies, not blonde
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Old April 14th, 2006, 12:58 AM   #139
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Hermione Granger has light to medium brown hair in the movies, not blonde

My point exactly.....maybe I've developed the same visual problem that my former ex-Marine manager developed....'cause I sure as frack ain't a blonde.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:03 AM   #140
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:47 AM   #141
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Sept 17th, 2008.
That'd be great but I was thinking they'll go for July 4.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 02:26 AM   #142
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Old April 14th, 2006, 03:01 AM   #143
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Yes, you are. And you wear dresses
Shall I "thwacketh" thee? Methinks ye deserve a good thwacking for thy impertinence.

So, get thee to a thwackery.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 05:41 AM   #144
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And I stand behind my statement about his business sense. He is the one on TV making money, and Im wiping dishs in the back of a Dennys on weekends
Ok, i'll bite. Business sense? Er how exactly does acting personify business sense? To me acting and working at Denny's is one in the same. There both jobs. One may make you obviously more money but in the long run it's a job. Many hollywood actors will say the same thing. Acting is one hell of a job that is very hard to do and time consuming but in the end it's a job. I've worked for hollywood, made money as an animator/modelor but that doesn't make me Donald Trump.

But i regress. I built a company from day one with barely a cent in my pocket into a million dollar a year business. Within the 15 years it took me to get there i also listened to other's and hired individuals that helped me build it to where it is today. In the long run your only as strong as those that work for you and vice versa. If you continuely second guess your decisions you will get knowhere and eventually the vision you had will quickly disappear. Until Mister Hatch takes other direction his vision for his future may disappear just as quickly. Take it from someone that has worked directly with the man and take it from other's that have done the same. There are quite a few across the net and on this very site.

Again i say this has nothing to do with him as an actor on a tv show, it has to do with how you percieve him as being a great business mind. Far from the truth.

Quote:
Its only when the bitterness of realizing your a Brown Coat fades, and the serenity of accepting that we were on the right side, it just happened to be the losing side, that you can look at this all without the special vision that only lets you see what you want to see.
Er kind of lost me on this one. Brown coat fades? Losing side? Special vision?

Who said anything about loosing? Is it me or does everyone around think we lost anything? Well let me tell ya this is the very mistake that alot of people are making considering Battlestar. TOS Galactica is far far from being a lost cause and eventually alot of the people that consider it lost will be stunned at just how alive it truely is.

I guess i take exception to some of your words Tabbi. When the good people here chose, along with me, to change Fleets back to a TOS only site alot of others including yourself stood by our decision in an outspoken way. As you stated you have the choice to change your mind, everyone does but i haven't and never ever will waver on my direction and dedication to seeing the true Galactica rise again.

On the loosing side? Not on your life.

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Old April 14th, 2006, 06:31 AM   #145
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......a fitting summation for the thread.....


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