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Old February 23rd, 2004, 12:11 PM   #1
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Default Sex sells, but does romance make a better story?

I was talking about this with a friend would like to hear you all's takes on this:

Do you prefer romance without showing every last detail of the sex that *might* follow or do you like the openness or realism that shows like NYPD Blue (and others after it) showed with sex shown on screen.

Just want to see which way in general, you like relationship stories to be told. Being female (and the resident fleet Victorian to boot ) I of course like the romance--I can fill in the rest myself without needing to have it shown.

Just wondering where everyone falls on this? Which direction (if you could be the ivory tower TV exec ) would you want to take TV in general?

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Old February 23rd, 2004, 12:52 PM   #2
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A bare Vulcan backside or a side-shot of bare breast may bring in viewers, but if there's no story to back it up you'll see the audience drift away almost immediately.

I'm of the opinion that if it's story-driven, i.e. if the more graphic depiction adds to the story, then it should be shown. If the sex/nudity is unsupported by the story, though (used for shock value, in other words), forget it. It doesn't belong on the kind of TV we're talking about, and is, in fact, a cheat.

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Old February 23rd, 2004, 01:13 PM   #3
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I agree with Dawg – I prefer whatever makes sense.

For example, the nudity in Titanic was tastefully done and IMO not gratuitous – it “fit”. Sometimes the directors go to such pains to hint that, yes these two characters are “doing” it, that it detracts from the story. So I often enjoy the realism that is shown in NYPD Blue, The Shield, ER, et al, because it is refreshing. I don’t enjoy it when it’s just there to be *there* as in the case of our much-debated BSG03.

But I don’t need to see every single last minuscule detail of the act.
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Old February 23rd, 2004, 02:06 PM   #4
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A different aspect of the romance/sex question is the issue of infidelity.
That is a case which the sex can also be alluded to, but since it is such a common human treachery, it has a place in many stories.
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Old February 23rd, 2004, 06:11 PM   #5
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It's the romance that makes it all the more interesting. Remember "Moonlighting"? Even the undercurrent of romance between two characters that profess to despise each other is enough to keep people coming back again and again to see what happens. "Beauty and the Beast" (the TV show) was another good example of how romance will keep viewers riveted for entire seasons.

Yes, sex sells. I wonder though, how many of the people who tune in to a show because the teaser indicates some skin will be shown stick around for more than a couple episodes afterwards.

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Old February 23rd, 2004, 07:32 PM   #6
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I think sexual tension between characters is one of the things that makes for a good story. "Moonlighting" was a great show until the two characters hooked up. Even "Frazur" went down hill after the Daphne/Niles romance was consumated. Stories are about people and how they relate, and a huge chunk of relating tends to be about fighting or drawing closer.

The question is how you portray it.

I think of romance as the subdiscipline of story telling that lingers on the drawing together of two people. This always makes for better drama because it's all about the relationship. Its sex of a sort, in that it's a meditation on the dance that leads up to more concrete intimacy, but the emphasis is on the lead up and the maintanence of the bond rather than the act itself. I think of overt sexuality as more playful and teasing, balancing out the seriousness of emotional intimacy with the sense of fun. Different stories call on different mixtuires of the two, depending on what the story is and who the audience is.

For purposes of discussion in BG, I think the idea of cylon sexuality is fascinating. What defines being alive more than the complexities of development and reproduction? Through the characters of Six and Boomer we see the cylons fully exploring physical sensuality, yet we know from the dialogue that they do not reproduce sexually. What drives a society that has no real use for sex to explore it so deeply? Mere exploitation of a human trait? Maybe. I hope it's more. That's one of the reasons I'll watch the new series.
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Old February 23rd, 2004, 09:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
IDo you prefer romance without showing every last detail of the sex that *might* follow or do you like the openness or realism that shows like NYPD Blue (and others after it) showed with sex shown on screen.

Just want to see which way in general, you like relationship stories to be told. Being female (and the resident fleet Victorian to boot ) I of course like the romance--I can fill in the rest myself without needing to have it shown.

Just wondering where everyone falls on this? Which direction (if you could be the ivory tower TV exec ) would you want to take TV in general?

Jewels
Well now that I wrote my answer and re-read your question and read cranky1c's eloquent explanation mine sounds very unsophisticated appologies

Ah my favourite subject… I very much agree with Dawg, the scene can’t just be plunked down for the sake of throwing in a sex scene then it just bores me. I do like the occasional very romantic and sweet scene but only in a movie it would bore me if it was a week to week occurrence. In a week to week programme I love tension filled, but I don’t want the will they won’t they stuff either. I never want the pair to be married or engaged, makes it too safe for me (I know in reality it’s different).

But I like so many different styles and it depends what I’m watching (the genre). I like Scenes that make my tummy do flip flops, my heart race and my breathing quicken… Off the top of my head I can name a few from movies that do one, two or all three of these things for me (don’t worry I’ll keep it pg13). The Last Emperor: The 3 of them together under the silk sheets. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid when Katherine comes into the bedroom and Robert is sitting in a chair holding his gun and tells her to undress, Dirty Dancing the look in Patrick’s face when Jennifer approaches him , then a little later when he runs his hand down over her breast. Hardly overt but I get more from the expressions on the actors faces and the tension in the moment or the suggestion than actually seeing any flesh (have a great imagination). For a TV show I like the way it was handled on Nakita. The “were not officially together’ but “we want each other”, but “we can’t show it to the world”, but “we get to be with each other every once in a while” thing they did. Perfect tension for me and a few steamy scenes, but never anything overt. I did very much like the scene between Tyrol and Boomer and it stopped at a good spot. Fired up the imagination and left me to it. But I do really enjoy seeing scenes that are a lot more "explicit", (and no, I’m not talking sexual x-rated stuff for a weekly program) I mean showing nakedness (as in the beauty of the human form, artistic ), vulnerability (especially in the man meaning this woman’s sexuality has a power over him), surrender (in the eyes), sensuality, passion, a certain amount of aggression like what we saw with Boomer/Tyrol. This is harder to explain than I thought and I cant’ think of a movie to give as an example, mind you I’m usually disappointed by sex scenes in movies. aannnyyywwaayys , to make a very long story short. For me with regards to a Sci- fi weekly TV program it’s not about the sex it’s about the SCI- FI, and if there is sex I want it to play a MINOR role. whew ! way to much information…

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Old February 24th, 2004, 12:43 AM   #8
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OK, I touched on this in another thread.
Yes I agree that sex for ratings is just plain tasteless and really obscene. And that romance makes a far better story. But it shocks me that so many people seem to be saying the opposite from my opinion of the mini when it comes to the sex.
We saw a lusty scene with Baltar and 6 where she toys with his mind then bones him like a Bunny Ranch porn star. A few scenes later she murders a baby. Later she tells him who she is and what she's done and how she did it. This establishes the characters and their motivations!! It's not gratuitous!

Here's the real kicker that blows me away. So many of you kind folks have thought the above described scene wasn't needed but the Tyrol/Boomer scene was fun and OK. But I think the Tyrol/Boomer scene APPEARED to be gratuitous because the story which explains WHY they had to loudly argue about the broken gimbal as they left the hangar bay before ripping their clothes off to make out wasn't explained. I watched it and laughed saying "what the hell was that all about?" I had to think about a bit before I realized, OK, it was a show to hide their relationship from the crew. It really was a weak spot in the editing of the mini because there were scenes that explained it that were cut. Yet the sex was kept... for ratings. The impact of the scene and their relationship isn't really fully realized until the end when we find out Boomer is a Cylon.

NOW, if the relationship was portrayed romantically instead of sexually, the storyline could have built more tension. The sex could have been used, sparingly, for an episode where the order to "start making babies" results in a question as to why Boomer can't get pregnant. They do some tests and discover she's.... gasp!...A CYLON!!!!!

Now that's good drama folks. Think about it.

I think a lot of you guys have got a prejudice against the mini that's keeping you from seeing the forest because of the trees. It's a great show.

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Old February 24th, 2004, 02:45 AM   #9
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Ok no long answers from me as i end up sounding stupid. But i'll throw my lot in. I would go with the romance, i think one of the things the mini missed was the entanglements that a true romance plot has in it, i mean i laughed at the trouble starbuck got into in TOS. But then maybe it would have been hard to stretch out a romance plot in everything that they had to cover. Maybe the series will sort that out but i only saw it the other day and seems as though there arent many chracters...am i wrong? and that basically leaves only apollo for that storyline.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 05:27 AM   #10
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For me i like bare naked vulcans!

Ahem, back to reality though. One thing that made Galactica flow was it's romance and charm. You don't have to look any further than the Hand of God to see just how good it could have been. A romance that started and was flamed out before it had a chance to evolve.

Besides i like bare naked female viper pilots even better than bare naked Vulcan first officers.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 05:51 AM   #11
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Maybe you should be more specific about which Vulcan first officer you like to see naked.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 06:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Marley
Maybe you should be more specific about which Vulcan first officer you like to see naked.
Yeah , good question, I was wondering the same thing, do tell, is it the ears? 'cause I have a thing for legolas, I don't think I drool that much though ..getting off topic again
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Old February 24th, 2004, 08:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain
We saw a lusty scene with Baltar and 6 where she toys with his mind then bones him like a Bunny Ranch porn star. A few scenes later she murders a baby. Later she tells him who she is and what she's done and how she did it. This establishes the characters and their motivations!! It's not gratuitous!
IMO the level of detail was, i.e. her thrashing about on top of him. Okay it could be argued that they were just trying to show that 6 is…ahem…anatomically correct. Or that their backs would glow during the act. I don’t know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain
Here's the real kicker that blows me away. So many of you kind folks have thought the above described scene wasn't needed but the Tyrol/Boomer scene was fun and OK.
I knew immediately, when they started ripping at each other’s clothes, that they were arguing to cover up their relationship. The thing was, they didn’t need to show him strip her to the waist and actually start the act. They cut away before that. They showed us just enough to give us the idea of what was going on.

And the handjob scene? What the heck was that all about?
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Old February 24th, 2004, 09:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titon
For me i like bare naked vulcans!

Ahem, back to reality though. One thing that made Galactica flow was it's romance and charm. You don't have to look any further than the Hand of God to see just how good it could have been. A romance that started and was flamed out before it had a chance to evolve.

Besides i like bare naked female viper pilots even better than bare naked Vulcan first officers.
Oh, go watch the locker room scene in "Saga of a Star World" or the pressure suit scene in Lost Planet of the Gods.... use your imagination.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 10:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Marley
Maybe you should be more specific about which Vulcan first officer you like to see naked.
LOL Darth!

You all can probably guess my feelings - without romance I see little point in sex, especially on screen. I don't have a problem with occasional brief scenes in movies if done tastefully, but I /don't/ like sex in my SciFi. I really hate it when I get a Sci Fi book and the author sticks gratuitous sexual inuendos and details in the middle of what (had) been a good story. I buy Sci Fi to read about Sci Fi. If I want oohs and ahhs and embarassing descriptions I'll read a romance novel thank you (which I don't). Very brief scenes onscreen within SciFi are okay so long as its not the primary content of the whole show (like a certain show I will not mention ), and just there to entice pubescent boys to bring up the ratings.

Good writing does not consist of sticking lewdness into a story or script as often as you can. The content of good writing makes little difference and should never be to garner shock value; it's how well you tell that content that makes it appealing or not.

Suggestion is far, far more powerful than stark, blatant, leave-nothing-to-the-imagination scenes. You can get a girl's heart fluttering much faster with slowly revealed tenderness than you ever can by being crude. Movies should know that by now.

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Old February 24th, 2004, 11:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
I was talking about this with a friend would like to hear you all's takes on this:

Do you prefer romance without showing every last detail of the sex that *might* follow or do you like the openness or realism that shows like NYPD Blue (and others after it) showed with sex shown on screen.

Just want to see which way in general, you like relationship stories to be told. Being female (and the resident fleet Victorian to boot ) I of course like the romance--I can fill in the rest myself without needing to have it shown.

Just wondering where everyone falls on this? Which direction (if you could be the ivory tower TV exec ) would you want to take TV in general?

Jewels

I like romance ...........but I really don't find it necessary to see the
ACT of SEX ..................... While it might SELL on screen .....................

It won't be 'shown' on MY screen .........If you get my meaning ............

I much prefer there to be something left to the imagination ..........that's one of the reasons I always loved to read so much.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 12:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain
NOW, if the relationship was portrayed romantically instead of sexually, the storyline could have built more tension. The sex could have been used, sparingly, for an episode where the order to "start making babies" results in a question as to why Boomer can't get pregnant. They do some tests and discover she's.... gasp!...A CYLON!!!!!

Now that's good drama folks. Think about it.

I think a lot of you guys have got a prejudice against the mini that's keeping you from seeing the forest because of the trees. It's a great show.

You have some great insight into the sex versus romance issue. Like you I think many can't appreciate the ground work layed in the mini because of their offense at the surface scenes. I think we do see the differences between amoral lust and the consequences and romance being layed down in the mini for a series. I think many forget this is really a pilot not a stand alone movie.

All the gratuitous sex scenes involve cylons or those that may be cylons. I think the cylon 6 scenes were a little over the top but I also realize that Moore was hammering home a point about the amoral use of sex to manipulate individuals. If anything he is subconciously telling us that such actions lead to our undoing. This is a very moral concept. Baltar is destroyed mentally as a result of his giving in to an obviously beautiful woman in a relationship based on nothing more than material trade. He let sex cloud his judgement. The moral of the story is as old as David and Bathsheba: sex outside of marriage leads to personal and physical destruction.

The Boomer/Tyrol sex was a foreshadowing that Boomer is also a cylon. She may also be manipulating the technical king of her world on the Galactica. Will she be the undoing of Tyrol and the Galactica. Will lust again lead to destruction? We will have to watch the series to find out.

Romance is in the mini also. We saw two examples of it. The obvious kiss between Duella and Roslin's assistant. That was the kiss we see in young junior high school students when just the right circumstance hits at just the right time. It is that first kiss that gives the glow that last all night. The kiss that tomorrow was an "accident" but haunts the memory for a long time later. It may be the start of something beautiful or just the magic of the night. It may have been two people that connected at a moment when all else was lost except each other. Again we will have to watch the series to find out.

We also see the love of Kara for Lee. The love has been surpressed because they have both been in mourning for Zak. Zak was Kara'a love but Lee's brother. He doesn't want to wrong the memory of his brother and yet he is drawn to the woman who was so close to him. The very nature and anger of Kara is a call for help to heal the pain of Zak. Finally with Lee she has been able under the extreme circumstances of the halocaust to lower her defenses and in her way open up her heart and call to Lee for help and love. Where will this go we will just have to watch the series.

On the subject of cylon biology:

For all we know they can reproduce sexually. 6 and Boomer may be on the pill etc. There is some speculation that Boxey is the offspring of a 6 model and the officer on the armistice station. If Boomer does not know she is a cylon she believes she is an orphan and unless she was exchanged for someone with implanted memories she must have grown up from a child. To me this idea goes to the concept that they either are human or know they are cylons. I don't really think both can be logically true.

Moore had less than four hours to introduce all the major characters, incite interest through contraversy, and lay the groundwork for a series. I think he had a good mix of romamnce and lust to accomplish his goal.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 01:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffit
LOL Darth!

You all can probably guess my feelings - without romance I see little point in sex, especially on screen. I don't have a problem with occasional brief scenes in movies if done tastefully, but I /don't/ like sex in my SciFi. I really hate it when I get a Sci Fi book and the author sticks gratuitous sexual inuendos and details in the middle of what (had) been a good story. I buy Sci Fi to read about Sci Fi. If I want oohs and ahhs and embarassing descriptions I'll read a romance novel thank you (which I don't). Very brief scenes onscreen within SciFi are okay so long as its not the primary content of the whole show (like a certain show I will not mention ), and just there to entice pubescent boys to bring up the ratings.

Good writing does not consist of sticking lewdness into a story or script as often as you can. The content of good writing makes little difference and should never be to garner shock value; it's how well you tell that content that makes it appealing or not.

Suggestion is far, far more powerful than stark, blatant, leave-nothing-to-the-imagination scenes. You can get a girl's heart fluttering much faster with slowly revealed tenderness than you ever can by being crude. Movies should know that by now.

Muffit Suggestion is more powerful ........................
As always your posts are true to the point and VERY insightful!
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Old February 24th, 2004, 01:05 PM   #19
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by the way keep posting Muffit! I love your posts!
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Old February 24th, 2004, 02:18 PM   #20
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Thanks Shiningstar!
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Old February 24th, 2004, 02:20 PM   #21
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Thanks Shiningstar!
Anytime
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Old February 24th, 2004, 03:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffit
I really hate it when I get a Sci Fi book and the author sticks gratuitous sexual inuendos and details in the middle of what (had) been a good story. I buy Sci Fi to read about Sci Fi. If I want oohs and ahhs and embarassing descriptions I'll read a romance novel thank you (which I don't). Very brief scenes onscreen within SciFi are okay so long as its not the primary content of the whole show. Good writing does not consist of sticking lewdness into a story or script as often as you can. The content of good writing makes little difference and should never be to garner shock value; it's how well you tell that content that makes it appealing or not.

Suggestion is far, far more powerful than stark, blatant, leave-nothing-to-the-imagination scenes.
I gave up reading Piers Anthony because of that. I would rather after the scene gets to a certain point that they leave it to my immagination because they never do my imagination justice.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 03:27 PM   #23
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The book Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein is IMHO the best scifi book ever written. However is is amazing how it was destroyed on the silver screen. Among the MANY things that were altered was unneeded and gratuitous scenes of naked woman. Some producers, writers, and directors just feel the need to change something and sex is always the first thing they reach for. I guess they think they will get a 10% boost in young male audience with a T&A scene or two.

Isn't it always amazing how in the middle of every slasher movie a young woman will feel the need to take a shower no matter how many of her friends were killed in the previous 60 minutes!
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Old February 24th, 2004, 03:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelen
I gave up reading Piers Anthony because of that. I would rather after the scene gets to a certain point that they leave it to my immagination because they never do my imagination justice.

That's precisely my point Gaelen .............well said.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 03:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antelope526
The book Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein is IMHO the best scifi book ever written. However is is amazing how it was destroyed on the silver screen. Among the MANY things that were altered was unneeded and gratuitous scenes of naked woman. Some producers, writers, and directors just feel the need to change something and sex is always the first thing they reach for. I guess they think they will get a 10% boost in young male audience with a T&A scene or two.

Isn't it always amazing how in the middle of every slasher movie a young woman will feel the need to take a shower no matter how many of her friends were killed in the previous 60 minutes!
That's so true Antelope .........so true indeed.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 04:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antelope526
You have some great insight into the sex versus romance issue. Like you I think many can't appreciate the ground work layed in the mini because of their offense at the surface scenes. I think we do see the differences between amoral lust and the consequences and romance being layed down in the mini for a series. I think many forget this is really a pilot not a stand alone movie.

All the gratuitous sex scenes involve cylons or those that may be cylons. I think the cylon 6 scenes were a little over the top but I also realize that Moore was hammering home a point about the amoral use of sex to manipulate individuals. If anything he is subconciously telling us that such actions lead to our undoing. This is a very moral concept. Baltar is destroyed mentally as a result of his giving in to an obviously beautiful woman in a relationship based on nothing more than material trade. He let sex cloud his judgement. The moral of the story is as old as David and Bathsheba: sex outside of marriage leads to personal and physical destruction.

The Boomer/Tyrol sex was a foreshadowing that Boomer is also a cylon. She may also be manipulating the technical king of her world on the Galactica. Will she be the undoing of Tyrol and the Galactica. Will lust again lead to destruction? We will have to watch the series to find out.


On the subject of cylon biology:

For all we know they can reproduce sexually. 6 and Boomer may be on the pill etc. There is some speculation that Boxey is the offspring of a 6 model and the officer on the armistice station. If Boomer does not know she is a cylon she believes she is an orphan and unless she was exchanged for someone with implanted memories she must have grown up from a child. To me this idea goes to the concept that they either are human or know they are cylons. I don't really think both can be logically true.

Moore had less than four hours to introduce all the major characters, incite interest through contraversy, and lay the groundwork for a series. I think he had a good mix of romamnce and lust to accomplish his goal.
Wow antelope your making my brain work
I'ts almost too bad that they didn't make it a 3 part series instead because he had to cram SSSSOOO much into such a short amount of time, as you say to lay the ground work for an eventual series. (I want to see the DVD when it comes out for more info)
Cylons I totally missed that moral ,whhooosh right over my head (I need more sleep) thanks for pointing it out it now seems really blatant .
there is a couple of places like #6 asking the man if he's human and looking fascinated by him which made me feel therfore that she wasn't . but there is that scene between Commander Adama, Baltar, and the EX. O where they discus the tests that were performed on th e cylon Adama killed on the munitions dump. they said that everything from the lymphatic system was just like us it was only by cremating the tissues that they were able to determin that it was artificial. According to biologists the following criteria determine if something is alive. (for anyone who does'nt all ready know)
1. Living organisms are complex and highly organized
2. Living things take energy from their environment and change it from one form to another
3. Living things are homeostatic
4. Living things respond to stimuli
5. Living things reproduce themselves
6. Living things grow and develop
7. Living things are adapted
8. The information by which living things organize their purposeful structures and functions, maintin homeostasis, convert energy, respond to stimuli, reproduce, and develop is all containded within the individual organism itself

Now if the Cylons are on the pill then we will never know for sure ?
But why can't they be cylons with immplanted memory chips and therefore not know they aren't human. like in the movie Blade runner?
Thanks that was fun, I like your letters
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Old February 24th, 2004, 04:49 PM   #27
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Even if the human-cylons are mere humans maybe the cylons have the ability to implant or erase memory.

There is no test to determine if one is a cylon. Under autopsy the medical people could not tell a human and cylon apart. Only Baltar understands his test. He knows his test can't detect a cylon but it has everyone fooled for the moment. Baltar was under the impression he was sending an innocent man to his doom in order to remove the "cylon" device in the CIC. The fact that 6 guided Baltar to remove that individual while telling Baltar that he was not a cylon (Never saw him at the cylon parties) throws some question into what exactly is the motivation of the 6 character assumming she is implanted in Baltar. Is she part of a plan and her goal was to "help" the cylon get off the Galactica or was she removing a threat to Galactica unknown to Baltar. It also adds some speculation into whether Baltar has been replaced by a duplicate but does not realize it. More good questions for the series.
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Old February 24th, 2004, 06:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antelope526
Even if the human-cylons are mere humans maybe the cylons have the ability to implant or erase memory.

There is no test to determine if one is a cylon. Under autopsy the medical people could not tell a human and cylon apart. Only Baltar understands his test. He knows his test can't detect a cylon but it has everyone fooled for the moment. Baltar was under the impression he was sending an innocent man to his doom in order to remove the "cylon" device in the CIC. The fact that 6 guided Baltar to remove that individual while telling Baltar that he was not a cylon (Never saw him at the cylon parties) throws some question into what exactly is the motivation of the 6 character assumming she is implanted in Baltar. Is she part of a plan and her goal was to "help" the cylon get off the Galactica or was she removing a threat to Galactica unknown to Baltar. It also adds some speculation into whether Baltar has been replaced by a duplicate but does not realize it. More good questions for the series.
OK I get it :light: (fake test thing)
Boy are you ever thinking this through, must admit it never occured to me she might have been trying to help the other cylon get off the ship or protecting Baltar I did wonder why she lied to Baltar about recognizing the other cylon. (i'm usually swifter than this between school , pneumonia and lack of sleep my brain is fried (insert ACK! face here) that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!
Thanks for the great chat! I love these kinds of conversations, never had the chance to discuss it before no one I know likes Scifi
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Old February 24th, 2004, 06:47 PM   #29
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oopsy I just realized that I should be having this conversation else were like maybe predictions or something sory for those looking to read some smut, I mean romannce/love
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Old February 24th, 2004, 08:09 PM   #30
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You know, I get tired of hearing the phrase "sex sells". Sells what? To whom? What kind of an audience? An even a bigger question - why? Storytelling and moviemaking got along just fine until 30-40 years ago with leaving us at the bedroom door and to our imaginations as to what happens next. I have friends that always say "Where's the (insert body part here)??" Why is that really necessary? Does it further plot? Not really - it's pure titallation to my mind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a prude or anything. I just get tired of hearing the same old excuses like "times are changing" and so on as an excuse for letting TV producers and filmmakers turn it into a free-for-all just to make a buck.

I recently heard (or read) someone say that "today's audiences are more sophisticated". Sophisticated? How is it sophisticated to want more "realistic" violence, bad language, naked bodies and sex acts in our entertainment? I think that society is actually taking a big slide and the entertainment industry is making money off of it at the same time by encouraging it and catering to the "worst' part of some people.

I remember when NYPD Blue started on ABC a number of years ago and it was heralded as "quality" TV show. The big deal over the show was the fact that you could get to see David Caruso's "not so attractive naked butt" on TV - and this was on a channel that is owned by Disney! What's "ABC" supposed to stand for? The "A**- Bearing-Channel"?

Sex may sell, but it's working on me... While I can deal with a bit of nudity now and then if the scene really "demands" it, the more graphic things get, the less I want to watch TV or go to a movie.

Okay....that was exhausting - I've had it on my mind since this thread started. I hope it didn't sound like rambling!

Best,
Bryan
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