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Old June 28th, 2011, 11:56 PM   #1
Thunderstruck
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Default Who has the better weaponry-tech

Am sure this has been brought up before, but I have never seen any views on this, and I just got an email bout the BSG encounters the empire ( video I created)and the thought that The Empire is superior in tech-weps.

Was wondering what others may think of this.

With what was displayed in BSG re-imagined or Orig.I have to wonder which
a Battlestar or Basestar would actually do in a fight with a star destroyer?


Though also, the original BSG never displayed much firepower in the series cept that one where it has a major weapon that can kill a base ship with one shot,
so which is it?

Either an old or New BS - Basestar vs a Star Destroyer.

What are your views , takes on this.

before I make a second I need to know lol
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Old June 29th, 2011, 06:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Given what we see, I ting a Original Series Battlestar would be able to take on and beat an Imperial Class Star Destroyer.

A Star Destoryer does have Shields, but in areas of the Original BSG, we see electronic Shields and screens being mentioned. We see Multiple Missle hits destroying a basestar (2 actually lol) atr point blank Range, and Laser cannons doing damage to the basestars. In hand of god, we do see what seem to be main weapon systems doing critical damage to a Basestar.

Add in the fighter compliment and the advantage still sits with the Battlestar. The Movies never state how many fighters a Star Destroyer carries, but other sources have put that number at 72. 6 12 fighter squadrons. where as, in hand of god, we see a Battlestar fielding 150 Vipers.

Manuvering, Tie Fighters seem to be equal to Vipers, Except where Vipers use their reverse Turbos. plus the Turbos would give the Vipers a speed advantage.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 11:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Either way, I'm pretty sure that the Battlestar wins, fairly effectively. The only advantages I can see, based on screen evidence, are that the ISD has slightly better shields, and better missile weapons. However, the energy weapon impacts that the Gal can deal out seem far higher than the ISD outputs.

As to cap-ship shielding, there are two different philosophies in place here: 'bubbles' and skin-tight 'electronic' shields (I think both ships use some form of super-conductive ablative armors). All told, I think the Battlestar probably has better shields.

Based on screen evidence, the Battlestar has the ISD in SCM (Space Combat Maneuvering).


Wing-wise, there are two things to consider: a) the RTF-Gal, and b) a full-compliment Battlestar. Almost every reference I know of to an ISD TIE fighter compliment is 72 TIE's, of various types; some places give different figures, but the ISD certainly operates no more than 100.

a) The RTF-Gal is operating a much-reduced wing, but even the meanest of the RTF Viper-drivers easily outclass even veteran TIE pilots in experience, hours in the cockpit, and number of confirmed kills. Under current (20th-21st Century) Earth rules, every Viper-driver on the Gal is a Ace, several times over.

b) At full strength, a BSG Battlestar conservatively operates between 100-150 Vipers, bare minimum.

How do Vipers stack up against TIE's?

Weapons are roughly equal in power and engagement envelope, and there appear to be no significant differences in targeting suites. Neither TIE's nor Vipers have any known shields (Note, however, that this does not apply to to all one-sentient fighters in the SW universe!).

TIE's maneuver better in tight, so if a good TIE pilot can get a Viper-driver into a turning fight, chances are the TIE pilot will get inside the Viper's turn and pull a switchback, ftw.

OTOH, the Viper has is all on the straightaway, with the added benefit of a full-reverse thruster, so a stern-chase or a closing attack is the best choice for the Colonial.

Psychologically, I think that the Viper pilots have the advantage. I base this on what I see as fatalism among TIE pilots that must exist, for one simple reason: Rebel fighters are equipped with FTL drives, TIE's aren't. It is extremely easy for a TIE pilot to be stranded in a strange system, with no habitable worlds and life support running out, when their carrier (ISD or otherwise) is either destroyed or has to leave the system in a hurry.

Quite simply, Viper pilots do not have this problem.


Over all? I think that most of the advantages lie with the Colonials in a one-on-one fight with the Imperials...The Rebels, OTOH, are a much knottier problem, but they would be far more likely to side with the Colonials, anyway.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 06:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Why thanks for those replies. I tend to favor your guys replies vs others I have gotten elsewhere.

either they are kids or just are not versed in the subject such as NO CONTEST, star wars beats the felgercarb out of BSG and U r Comparing energy weps to projectiles? puhlease etc etc.


I agree BSG TOS or even RI- new would stand a good fight with any Star wars Weps.

whether energy or projectile. but as one who has seen both in the hundreds I tend to agree, space based fantasy weps based on shows shows they are similarly based.

Thanks for not also going into tech details as if they did exist lol.. such as a laser or microwave weps are not even visible etc etc.

Finally some help on this. TYVM. will try and incorporate my thoughts and yours into any future battle scenes, sucbh as my WIP BSG encounters the empire episode 2. hope to get a lil hot n heavy with this one. A lot of work though.

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Old July 20th, 2011, 11:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

No probs! Feel free to ask away, here, or via PM.....
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Old July 21st, 2011, 09:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Wow...That's tough!........Jedi's have light sabers, Cylons have metal swords.....Cylons have Laser Rifles but so do stormtroopers and neither one of them could hit the broadside of a Star Destroyer!
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 02:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

The Colonial Viper is the most advanced space fighter designed by man.
"Nuff said.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 02:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apolloisall View Post
The Colonial Viper is the most advanced space fighter designed by man.
"Nuff said.
What about a X wing Fighter?
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 03:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Quote:
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What about a X wing Fighter?
It's nice. But it's no Viper.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 03:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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Originally Posted by Apolloisall View Post
It's nice. But it's no Viper.
The X wing is like a F-18 Two wing position fighting modes.

I may agree with you but how does the viper stack up against the X wing?

I think the X wing can Hyper jump as well without being launched from a base ship although I may be wrong.

I would also point out that the X wing has 4 sequential fireing guns where the the viper has 2?
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 03:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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I think the X wing can Hyper jump as well without being launched from a base ship although I may be wrong.
Hyper jump means nothing in combat, except to escape.
Without the Force, the targeting systems of an X-Wing are less accurate.
The X-Wing doesn't have breaking flaps (reverse thrusters).
The X-Wing is less cool in appearance, but that's merely a personal aside.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 04:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apolloisall View Post
Hyper jump means nothing in combat, except to escape.
Without the Force, the targeting systems of an X-Wing are less accurate.
The X-Wing doesn't have breaking flaps (reverse thrusters).
The X-Wing is less cool in appearance, but that's merely a personal aside.
Point taken! I now totaly agree with you!
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 04:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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Point taken! I now totaly agree with you!
Excellent!

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Old July 22nd, 2011, 04:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Those are fraking awsome! are they plastic, paper, wood???

I also noticed those models are Mk I and not the MK II what do you think of the New Viper? the RI BSG?
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 05:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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Those are fraking awsome! are they plastic, paper, wood???
Those are my accurized Revell models. I make 'em constantly & sell my extras on Ebay (one's on there now). My favourite fighter design of all time. The Revell kits are drying up fast though. I only have 10 left, then it's on to making them from scratch...
Quote:
I also noticed those models are Mk I and not the MK II what do you think of the New Viper? the RI BSG?
I think the new one is actually quite excellent, but the Moebius kit is so close to perfect that it presents no challenge to build (My Son made one; there it is in the background).

I stopped watching the new series as they abandoned it for the silver & black felgercarb-lookin' junk.
I really only watched the show for the new Viper action.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 08:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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Those are my accurized Revell models. I make 'em constantly & sell my extras on Ebay (one's on there now). My favourite fighter design of all time. The Revell kits are drying up fast though. I only have 10 left, then it's on to making them from scratch...
I think the new one is actually quite excellent, but the Moebius kit is so close to perfect that it presents no challenge to build (My Son made one; there it is in the background).

I stopped watching the new series as they abandoned it for the silver & black felgercarb-lookin' junk.
I really only watched the show for the new Viper action.
Before the kits run out, Have you concidered resin casting one of your kits?

I have a little experience in vacuum forming and resin casting and if the kits are running out you could make silicone molds of the kit and cast your own parts from resin. The resin makes better parts than the revel plastic anyway.

The MK II looks pretty hot as well. Looks like a steamlined, Hot rod version of the classic Viper.

But I am a die hard TOS BSG fan and didn't think to much of the 1980 resurection attempt nor could I ever get into the new RI series.

The first time I saw one of the RI episodes, I wasn't 5 min in and discovered that Starbuck was a Girl

I changed the channel and never looked back. LOL

I build mostly R/C aircraft but I love the TOS BSG static stuff and have just recently joined a number of forums that deal with the Papkura stuff but my intrest is in the TOS BSG props, Models and Costumes.

Big Die Hard Star Wars fan too but I have a special intrest in BSG.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 01:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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Before the kits run out, Have you concidered resin casting one of your kits?
Generally I wouldn't recast an existing kit, but I've modified mine so heavily that I feel like it's no longer a Revell model anyway. I only used the kit as a base to work off of.

Short answer: yes.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 02:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Cool....Do you build the other models too?. Cylon raider , Galactica, Pegasus?
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 02:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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Cool....Do you build the other models too?. Cylon raider , Galactica, Pegasus?






Yeah, I've done some stuff. I just love the Galactica designs in general.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 08:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

You got some mad skills and a awsome talent there buddy!
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Old July 24th, 2011, 02:22 AM   #21
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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...I may agree with you but how does the viper stack up against the X wing?...
Okay, I'll take a shot:

* The X-Wing definitely wins in the strategic flexibility department, far more so than either the Viper or Raider, given its FTL drive.

* The X-Wing gets points for on-board maintenance, as the R2 unit can conduct underway battle-damage repair - under fire - as well as repair its...

* Shield system - clearly, the X-Wing can absorb significant damage, much more than a Viper.

On the neutral side:

* Real-space speeds and SCM (Space Combat Maneuvering) appear about even.

* The X-Wing's four ion cannons don't seem to do any more damage than a Viper's two; although they do increase hit probability, they also add complexity and maintenance hassles.

On the downside:

* Targeting systems: the Viper - based on on-screen evidence - is one to two generations ahead in the targeting department, at least.


Overall, I'd call it a draw: the two ships look cool, perform about the same, and have both strengths and weaknesses. I'd happily take either one...

...But then, I'm a Y-Wing, man, myself.....
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Old July 24th, 2011, 11:58 AM   #22
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You got some mad skills and a awsome talent there buddy!
The Lords of Kobol guide my hand.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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* Shield system - clearly, the X-Wing can absorb significant damage, much more than a Viper.
A point I'd not considered....

But the Cylons aren't that good- and we are!
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 03:54 AM   #24
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Also, we see in the ISD the launch bay, up inside the body of the ship. Unlike the Battlestar, any serious damage to the bay cannot be as easily contained. I am imagining one good missile hit to the ISD's bay could knock her out of the fight, fairly early on.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 11:51 AM   #25
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

I think to make up for that particular vulnerability on the ISD, there is a major concentration of turbolaser and point defense weaponry around the lower launch bay to take care of inbound fighters and missiles. A well shielded fighter would probably have to get in extremely close, risking the lock on of such point defense weaponry, and fire a missle at almost point blank range to have any success in damaging or disabling the launch bay, and the ISD itself. (At least, that's the way it seemed to play out in the PC games of X-wing, X-wing Vs. TIE Fighter, and X-Wing Alliance.)

Also, I imagine that during combat, during times when TIE's are not likely to be launched or landed, particle shields are in place which would easily deflect missile weapons, but also prevent ships from entering/leaving the bay.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 12:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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A point I'd not considered....

But the Cylons aren't that good- and we are!
Cylons, like the Imperials, rely more on overwhelming numbers in battle.

However, the reasons are different.

Cylons, being machines, designed to work in coordinated, synchronized attacks, use their superior numbers to bring as much firepower to bear on a single target to ensure its swiftest possible destruction. Their Raiders are likely much hardier than....

Imperial TIE Fighters. TIE pilots, like the Cylons, rely on overwhelming numbers, but that is because TIE's are incredibly cheap to manufacture, lacking few (if any) safety features such as deflector shielding, hyperdrives, and a life-support system (not that original series Cylons need life-support). TIE pilots also do not become attached to a single fighter like Rebel pilots do. All TIE's, whether brand new off the assembly line, or reconditioned and pressed back into service, perform exactly as every other TIE of its type (every TIE In --standard fighter-- performs exactly as all other In's, every Interceptor performs exactly as all other Interceptors) etc. So, the Empire can afford to practically "stamp" working TIE's from the factories, and create hordes of fighters in short time, thus giving the Imperials the numerical superiority to dominate almost any space superiority situation. This forces the Rebel pilots to be very creative in dealing with TIE pilots. The TIE's other main advantage are its extremely destructive laser cannons, designed to overwhelm fighter shielding except for glancing shots. Just about anything short of and leading up to a direct hit will seem to destroy Rebel fighters.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 12:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

Quote:
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Okay, I'll take a shot:


* The X-Wing's four ion cannons don't seem to do any more damage than a Viper's two; although they do increase hit probability, they also add complexity and maintenance hassles.
Actually, being armed with all ion cannons would make the X-wings strictly disabling starfighters then...as ion cannons are meant to disrupt/disable a starfighter's/starship's electrical and electronic systems, and fuse mechanical systems, not cause outright destruction like laser and blaster cannons. (sorry, Star Wars techno-geek in me coming out )

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarMachine
...But then, I'm a Y-Wing, man, myself.....
Ah, the backbone of the Rebel fleet.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 02:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who has the better weaponry-tech

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Actually, being armed with all ion cannons would make the X-wings strictly disabling starfighters then...as ion cannons are meant to disrupt/disable a starfighter's/starship's electrical and electronic systems, and fuse mechanical systems, not cause outright destruction like laser and blaster cannons. (sorry, Star Wars techno-geek in me coming out )



Ah, the backbone of the Rebel fleet.


Correct, the X-Wing doesn't have Ion cannons, it have laser cannons. The Y-Wing has 2 Laser cannons and 2 Light Ion cannons in a turret above the cockpit. Both the X-Wing and the Y-Wing have 2 Proton Torpedo Launchers. the X-Wing has 3 torps per launcher (6 total) and the Y-Wing has 4 Per (8 total).

Now, alot of people have mentioned the Rebel ship's shields. but based solely on what we see in the movies, it's debatable how much an effect they have.
(Well, maybe it works better for Luke then the others lol) the Novels is where you really see Shields paying off for the fighters.

I'd still take a Viper over an X-Wing any day. Even prefer a viper to my beloved Y-Wing.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 02:18 PM   #29
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Correct, the X-Wing doesn't have Ion cannons, it have laser cannons. The Y-Wing has 2 Laser cannons and 2 Light Ion cannons in a turret above the cockpit. Both the X-Wing and the Y-Wing have 2 Proton Torpedo Launchers. the X-Wing has 3 torps per launcher (6 total) and the Y-Wing has 4 Per (8 total).

Now, alot of people have mentioned the Rebel ship's shields. but based solely on what we see in the movies, it's debatable how much an effect they have.
(Well, maybe it works better for Luke then the others lol) the Novels is where you really see Shields paying off for the fighters.

I'd still take a Viper over an X-Wing any day. Even prefer a viper to my beloved Y-Wing.
Indeed....X-wing shields would seem to have almost a negligible effect....it's even said that Stormtrooper armor is supposed to be blaster proof....but it is only blaster proof for glancing shots, not direct hits.

As for Vipers vs. X-wings....I'll have to take the X-wing.

The FTL drive, and the R2 unit greatly increases its chances for survivability.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 03:11 PM   #30
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As for Vipers vs. X-wings....I'll have to take the X-wing.
This may be simplistic, but I'd take maneuverability over all other factors, so make it Viper for me.
The fact that it looks so much cooler has not influenced my decision here in any way.
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