Wanna know why Ron Moore is tearing apart BG?

[thomas7g]

The answer IMHO is simple. Ron Moore is not evil, or a bastard. A long time ago he watched BG once, loved it, then forgot about it while he grew up to be a successful writer.

He admitted to not seeing the show in 20 years.

So what do you remember about a show you haven’t seen in 20 years? I don’t remember much. But most of us have rewatched the show in the reruns since the show was cancelled. Since Moore is a successful writer its safe to assume he is a busy man and doesn’t have the time or the energy to re-examine a show that composes of about 25 hours (not including the BG80 sequel). That is a lot of hours! But he probably did want to see something, so he probably just rented the dvd and is basing all his assumptions about galactica on that!

Think about it. Forget all you know of galactica outside of the pilot. Examine all Moore’s assumtions about what is bad about Galactica. They make a lot more sense.

Does that make him right? Hell no.

Does it make us a little hasty in calling him a rapist? I think so.

I think he is a busy businessman with alot of talent. But can his talent equal to a year’s work of talented artists? Of course not. That’s where he is being arrogant His refusal to even consider that he may not have the best ideas.

He said that making starbuck a woman was the best decision he has done. Well… that shows he needs to do his homework.

Mr. Moore, you are a fool and an ass if you don’t listen to what made Galactica great before you make it.

Before you try to make a story better, it's important to truly understand what made it so great to begin with...

[jewels]

Which is why we tried to tell him long ago that the whole story was not in the pilot: there were bits and pieces throughout every episode that needed note. More backstory, more character development and more character interaction and relationship development. All things needed to understand what BSG was and is.

It was important to understand what made the series hold up so well that 25 years later there are still people rediscovering it, seeing it for the first time and becoming fans. (Mmmmm....hopefully some new people will be finding us again in Feb./Mar. and adding their voices to the calls for continuation )

[KJ]

I bet good money if he turned up at the 25th Anniversary for Battlestar Galactica this year. a mob would tear him a new one? come bet! I won't do it, but being realistic about it come on, fans from all over the world would know Ron Moore's behind the crappy script remake and would tear into him.

Don't show up Ron? i'm saying this for your own good???.......

KJ

[cugel]

We don't want this! The original cast are important. I hate to think TPTB could get this message. They will love the whole part about not using the cast.

[Hito]

I guess it is no suprise i am the first no vote.
Moore is a fanboy.
He prolly has as much access (or more) to old BSG tapes as any of us to.
But since he is just doing the pilot why would he need to watch the entire series?

Tho I will agree with the continuation people in o far as the new pilot lacks the scale of the orignial pilot, I still have to point out that the mistake people keep making is that you somehow expect him to squeeze all of the reoccouring themes from the entire run of BSG into this miniseries.
Even The original had not explored any the elements you keep saying are not present in moores version till after the first 3 pilot episodes.
It wasnt till later in the series they started to get into the lords of Kobol the psudo-christian alagory and colonial backstory.
The best u got in the original pilot was strange measurements for time and distance.

I'm pretty sure if this gets picked up as a series he will review the tapes of the original and decides which elements he thinks work and those that will go through the crucible of his reimagination.

[thomas7g]

actually the question is if you think Moore has looked at the rest of the series. So that puts you in the YES camp.

I'll make that clearer in the poll.

I think he has access to anything he wants. he probably can get Maren Jensens old bra size if he wants. But did he spend the time and effort to rewatch the series? Did he study it? Did he learn why it was so great?

or did he just watched the dvd and decided that was good enough, and rewrote everything?

[havoc315]

If you read RDMs messages on this subject it becomes apparent that he did watch the show originally 25 years ago, he is familiar with the entire series (he made references to Cain, etc), but when writing the remake, he only focused on re-watching the original pilot.

[Titon]

originally posted by Hito:

Tho I will agree with the continuation people in o far as the new pilot lacks the scale of the orignial pilot, I still have to point out that the mistake people keep making is that you somehow expect him to squeeze all of the reoccouring themes from the entire run of BSG into this miniseries.

Is this to much to ask? Not really. You see this is why hollywood fails misserabley with remakes. They forget the entire series and why it was special. Fans of Galactica are all on the same page when it comes to the original pilot, to many holes. But as fans we seem to forget the series began to *fill* in alot of those holes while it progressed. Does it fix everything? Of course not but if Moore took the time to watch for instance the following 2 part episode "Lost Planet of the Gods" ,some of the culture of Galactica began to flesh out. Who they were, where they came from, where they must go. But then again why watch the entire series run when your basically throwing it out the door all together.

There is NO comparison between Galactica of yesteryear and Moore's vision. He has as many holes in his script as the original did 25 years ago, possibly more. Instead of "fixing" the pilot to fill in those areas he simply rewrites everything and creates new ones.

If it were me, fine, rewrite this thing but keep what "we" know from the past intact and rectify what was missing.

In order to do that Moore "needs" to watch the series run to see what was and was not rectified through the first season. If he does not we simply will only get one 4 hour miniseries.

[Stevew]

Right Don people seem to forget that it was yanked before it had a chance to fill in a lot of gaps. There could have been storys about the early days to help flesh it out but it was never given a chance
S:evil:

[thomas7g]

Havoc- that's what I said. he hasn't seen it in over 20 years!

It seems ludicrous to me that you could do a proper remake without first immersing yourself in the original. Watch most of the series over again, relive it, understand the full scope of all the characters! To really understand the original series.

It seems like a pretty huge mistake of ego to think you're good enough to make any project better with only one night's worth of research!!!!!

[thomas7g]

btw- I agree with you Don, the new Moore story has as many faults if not more than the original did. Every sign we've seen looks REALLY HORRIBLY BAD. Not just discouraging, but HORRIBLE!

Even if this wasn't Galactica this would be bad.

[havoc315]

If he were remaking the entire series, then I think he should review the entire original series. If he was doing a continuation, then I would also most definitely agree that he must study the entire original series. But if he is doing a remake of just the original at the time being, I don't see a need for him to review all that came after.

It's like saying that if someone is doing a movie about WWI, they should study WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc, etc.

[Sci-Fi]

I actually agree with Hito. (Someone throw water on Hito; he's passed out on the floor.)

I think it's only necessary to see Saga and Lost Planet of the Gods to be able to write a good remake. When I see people discussing remake ideas, and they constantly bring up Cain and the Ship of Lights and Iblis and the Nomen and Terra and this and that I just have to put myself in the head of TPTB and think we're all acting too fanatically. These things weren't the series, they were just various elements of it.

Would Cain and Iblis have returned if the show had lasted two or three seasons? Possibly. But even if they appeared regularly, once a season, that still makes them just occasional guest stars, not the heart of the series. I don't think John from the Ship of Lights would have been recruiting Apollo and Starbuck for missions two or three times a year. I don't think the Nomen would be reappearing, either. The producers would have brought in new elements. Cain, Iblis, etc., are just small pieces.

I thought War of the Gods was classic. I love that episode. But I don't want to see Iblis in a continuation, coming back with a new body or something. We've seen that idea. We've seen Cain. Let's see some new stuff. There's a whole universe of interesting stories to tell. Let's see some of them instead of trotting back old guest characters. (This was the major problem I had with Hatch's "Armageddon." It felt like a greatest hits album, bringing back every conceivable original plot point it could cram into one story: Iblis, Zac, Ship of Lights, Nomen, etc. And then Cain has to appear in the next book, which I didn't read. Again, let's move on to new characters and stories.)

Let's let them go and stop putting such creative restraints on any potential continuation, remake or re-imagining. We need the basics, of course. I don't want to give the impression that we don't need the Battlestar Galactica basics. But the rest should be more flexible.

But then again, I forgot something. Hito has recently reminded me that I'm not flexible myself. I'm constantly bending people toward my own will. So let's just forget I said anything.

[Hito]

True that since moore is going with an entirely new take on the series instead of revisiting and rectifying problems (that I’d have liked fixed) from the original, he has potentially unleashed a whole new set of problems.
Or not..
That still remains to be seen.
But the way I see it is, if the original did ok with in what my opinion was such a weak beginning then there is no reason to believe this one wont do just as well.

I don’t know why u think it is shocking Grant.
You act as if I am somehow married to the ideas of Moore's script when it dosent.
In fact what I know for the script does not completely satisfy me by any means.
It may not seem like it to some since I don’t name-call and get angry with the man.

I’ve also been for “throwing off some of the creative restraints” keeping a new BSG from being made but I see the insistance that the project be a continuation as one of those restraints.
I wouldn’t see a problem with a show with an entirely new cast that begins 25 years after the destruction of the colonies and uses non-linier story telling to tell how they got there.
So you could kind of imagine that most of what went down in the original show happned but mebby just a little differently.

Like I have always said my perfect scenario for the return of BSG would have been a straight up remake from jump street with a slower build up to the events of star world that would iron out the problems that I had with it. But also it would have utilized most of the recognizable thematic, design and story elements of the original show.
With the inclusion of some up to date with modern visual effects and camera technology and storytelling.
I wouldn’t rule out a few casting changes since I liked the original cast but was not as into the actors as much as the overall story (& hardware).
That is possibly that is why I was not as threatened by Starbuck & Boomer becoming woman in the new script.
(Hey I don’t see where Kara Trace can't still be a hotshot, carousing, cigar smoking womanizer. )

But anywhoo...
Lets imagine for a moment that I'd been in charge of my own perfect project.
I'd defiantly have tossed out anything that wasn’t in my favorite episodes.
Since most of the rest was so cheesy I could have sold it to Kraft to put in macaroni.

The first 2 hours of "Saga"
Lost Planet of the Gods
The Lost Warrior
The Long Patrol
Living Ledged
War of the Gods
The man with 9 lives
The Hand of God

And even tho the changes I am thinking of (or even the ones u proposed) wouldn’t be a sweeping as the ones being implemented by Moore and his staff. You’d still find yourself at the “hate end” of some fans “Mad stick”.
The kinds who would make petitions to get u fired, come after u at conventions, or even threaten to kill u… (happened when they killed off super man in DC comics and Spock in Trek III)

I can see the backlash posts now...
From now on I am gonna change that child molesting idiot’s name to "O Hit" because "Oh" how I’d like to "Hit" him!! for leaving out “X,Y or Z element”

But right now since any project even resembling what I want doesn’t seem likely.
I am about willing to take my BSG any way I can get it.
So I’ll just wait and see how this incarnation works out.

But if it does stink…
Then I guess I’ll go ahead name-call a bit too.

And believe me when I say that.
If this thing goes down badly as you all think it will, then all bets are off.
You can come here and call Moore whatever you want (in moderation )!
(But to make that determination you'd have to actually sit through all 4 hours.)
Or to be really fair tho you would have to give the new series at least as many hours/episodes as the original to cover the same ground before you can make a determination as to how well it explored the specific themes that existed in the original (Mythology, spiritually, friendship etc.)

So by the end of the first season we would know for sure.