The infamous "cloven hoof" from WoTG...

Lt Donovan · February 6th, 2009, 09:22 AM

I KNOW I saw that footage when I was younger...maybe when they edited the two parts together into a telemovie.

Try as I might, I can't find a screencap of it ANYWHERE...it apparently didn't make the DVD set.

Does anybody out there have it?

Aphrodite · February 7th, 2009, 05:32 PM

It's in my DVD set. Do you have the 3-D Cylon head? It has it in there in the extras.

Lt Donovan · February 7th, 2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aphrodite

It's in my DVD set. Do you have the 3-D Cylon head? It has it in there in the extras.

Yes, I have the 3d Cylon head packaging. The scene where they go back to the crashed ship is in the extras for WoTG, but the acutal shot of the hoof is still missing.

Unless you're thinking of someplace else?

Aphrodite · February 7th, 2009, 07:48 PM

Nope...I know it's on that set.

It might me in one of the specials included in the set, but I know that is where I've seen it.

KJ · February 8th, 2009, 11:03 AM

Footage of the hoof didn't make the Telemovie cut of WOTG neither! I KNOW cos i've asked BSG fans online for years, way before the old 2001 VHS pal edition boxset of the BSG telemovies came out.

Yet i too felt that i saw the footage of the "hooves" when i was younger, and that the combined episodes were edited differently, like when Apollo and Starbuck shoot iblis, where was a loud blasting 'sound', which wasn't in the two seperate episodes.

Larson says what it is on the DVD but doesn't show it? Methinks the footage no longer exists, but i believe it was filmed but cut out by ABC and the execs.

Time could've played tricks on us or if there was a cut that had the footage, it was rarely seen and was quickly pulled from airing?, who knows for certain.

KJ

Gemini1999 · February 8th, 2009, 03:19 PM

All I know is that I've never seen the "cloven hoof" scene that people talked about. Not back in 1979, not after buying the DVDs or watching the telefilms on VHS tape. As a matter of fact, I never heard about it until I joined the BSG online community back in 2002. I went back and reviewed all the visual material I had collected over the years, but it's just not there. I don't think that the scene ever made it to broadcast or any other version for that matter.

Bryan

February 8th, 2009, 07:05 PM

Probably comes from visualizing the scene as it was described in the novelisation

BST · February 8th, 2009, 07:34 PM

I don't ever recall seeing the cloven hooves. For those who recall seeing them, the case may be as Jason indicated in his above post -- "if there was a cut that had the footage, it was rarely seen and was quickly pulled from airing?".

Who knows, it may have escaped the censors the first time through.

Dawg · February 8th, 2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BST

I don't ever recall seeing the cloven hooves. For those who recall seeing them, the case may be as Jason indicated in his above post -- "if there was a cut that had the footage, it was rarely seen and was quickly pulled from airing?".

Who knows, it may have escaped the censors the first time through.

No, it didn't; at least, I don't think so.

If I understand and recall correctly, the "cloven hooves" scene was in the script, but the network scotched that scene before it was ever filmed. I seem to recall interview answers by people who should know that said this was the case.

I suppose I could be wrong, but I feel pretty confident about it.

I am
Dawg

Darrell Lawrence · February 8th, 2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aphrodite

Nope...I know it's on that set.

It might me in one of the specials included in the set, but I know that is where I've seen it.

Can you snag a screengrab of it?

Athene · February 9th, 2009, 08:24 AM

I don't remember seeing that cloven hoof.
I'm going to watch that episode today and see if I can see it.
Aphrodite also mentioned the specials. I 've got the set with the Cylon Head on it.
Would that be in the deleted scenes section perhaps?

AlternityOrange · February 9th, 2009, 03:00 PM

It's most definitely not on any DVD set. The guy who actually dug through the archives looking for deleted scenes was asked, repeatedly, about the scene at Galacticon. He said he was very aware of it from online discussions and looked for it repeatedly. But it wasn't there, anywhere, in any of the boxes or files. It may never have existed at all except in script form.

dilbertman · February 9th, 2009, 05:31 PM

In the second season of Buck Rogers there's a goat man. Maybe that's where have seen that type of image?

Jim

KJ · February 13th, 2009, 12:35 PM

The Buck Rogers "Satyr" episode.

One wonders today if Larson used alot of material ideas, that were outlined for BG's season 2 originally! Cos the satyr idea, seemed like a good BG episode rather than a BR one?

It's most definitely not on any DVD set. The guy who actually dug through the archives looking for deleted scenes was asked, repeatedly, about the scene at Galacticon. He said he was very aware of it from online discussions and looked for it repeatedly. But it wasn't there, anywhere, in any of the boxes or files.

Was he asked about material that WAS found but still didn't make the set back in 2003 AO?

KJ

Lt Donovan · February 14th, 2009, 05:14 PM

The only confirmation I know of that the scene was actually filmed comes from Anne, who said it was, but it was cut because the prop didn't look very good. (Which is different from the commonly held beleif that it was cut by censors).

KJ · February 18th, 2009, 10:18 AM

I say, its a combination of both things!

It was ordered cut by the ABC censors, and also at the time of filming the prop wasn't convincing enough. But it WAS still cut cos of its satanic implications (i.e. the storyline revelation scene in part 2 etc?)

I.E. the same end result. However i believe, as do many others etc, that it was filmed and cut and over the passage of time, memories and heresay have played tricks on us, and when fans have asked the actors/writers what was meant to be seen originally. They've suffered from memory laps as does anybody who human and asked to recall what was filmed etc.

According to Jack Stauffer (a nice guy), it was never meant to be seen. although its doubtful he was around for ALL of the filming, after his small bit in the opening of part 1 of WOTG?

I reckon time's played tricks on even those who were there at the time of filming, but i take Lockhart's word on that it was filmed but the prop was originally in poor condition i.e. not scary enough ("dead sheep" she said wasn't it?) cos she was said to have filmed the most of the scene including an alternate scene version where Sheba 'DID' in fact, look in the crash and screamed at the dead demonic bodies inside the ship.

Not very Warrior like for a colonial warrior, no wonder that too was cut out apparently. But without any 'screen caps' and the like, all we've got it news we've heard about and some possible heresay from those who have talked to actors/writers and those involved with the series and that particular episode!!!

All i know is, when i was very small in the early 80's, that i remember the cut i saw with the changes i've noted above. I'd be lying if i said i saw the hooves myself now, but i remember iblis getting blasted and the sound effects being different than the normal cut of the standard episode.

KJ

KJ · November 17th, 2009, 05:21 PM

Its definitely something that ought to be put back in via a remastered version of Battlestar Galactica. I.E. Refilming the sequence with new props/CG effects wherever possible, during the famous "revelation scene" along with tighter editing techniques (scenes per shot and pace look kinda off).

Iblis' laser blast/death bolt needs major enhancing, and Apollo's death and fall, could be quicken up with some neat editing and splicing etc.

In a fan edit, i'd have Starbuck shoot Count Iblis multiple times rather than only twice? He'd want to stop the creature (Iblis) as his friend was just killed tragically. Kinda think all the emotions would be running alot higher and afford Starbuck enough real rage and anger to want to fire more than just two mere shots regardless if the *laser blasts* weren't working. Starbuck's rage would've blinded him to common sense for a few more moments, before he realised it was useless and wasn't working.

Next to the pilot War Of The Gods is my second favorite episode, Living Legend i didn't see until much later? (U.K. broadcasting wasn't continiuty great in the early 80's). This episode was just too great in terms of storytelling and showed the potential of the series that would've grown naturally had the show continued. Count Iblis easily ranks up there with any omnipotent villain from Star Trek and other great sci-fi's etc.

KJ

WarMachine · November 18th, 2009, 06:37 PM

I know that I've at least seen a still of it - it looked like a badly BBQ'd pig's foot...

KJ · November 22nd, 2009, 05:52 AM

From where exactly?

Can't come out saying that and not back it up. A still of it, i.e. photo or picture taken and saved by somebody, or was it published in am magazine or maybe revealed at a comic convention etc.

Archival production pic you own yourself?

The infamous 'Cloven Hooves', the one that were supposely asked at Galactica cons for years without any clear cut answers, you've seen WarMachine.

WHERE EXACTLY!!!

o.k. here comes the 5 W's Come on in boys...?

* Who

* What

* Why

* When

* Where!

Etc......

Wanna know how you've seen it and it ain't been reported yet to anybody in this fandom!

Kinda like the exploding Viper in the 'launch tube' footage thats in Mission Galactica film for 1.5 seconds in a random launch scene, that was probably originally meant to be in LPOTG's instead.

Seriously dude what gives with this all-new revelation now!

I know i once saw the photo from Aliens of the character 'Burke' cocconed in a deleted scene from that classic film in an old 80's Sci-Fi magazine (possibly 'Vulcan'?) looked and read it but for some reason didn't buy it in one of those odd moments (maybe i was strapped for cash?) but i knew i saw it and there it was. When i talked about it, seems content was cut from the films from fans etc at school. when the 92 SE came out. People were shocked at the extended 17 minutes of scenes added back. But i know the talk of the Carter Burke scene, had people talking cos by then Aliens movie fans knew of his REAL fate that was cut out of the film originally.

Wasn't in the theatrical film nor the SE's but that pic from long ago said it all. another early 90's magazine also had it and it became a thing of legend practically. The scene not on any of the DVD's of Alien saga boxset over the years, but we all know of the scene through that classic 'colour' and Black & White photograph!

So if you know of any info regarding the 'cloven hooves' pic from BG's WOTG's my man. Please enlighten us all!

KJ

KJ · November 22nd, 2009, 08:56 AM

See here's the infamous 'Burke Cocooned' photo from Aliens!

A scene many Aliens fans want to see from James Cameron one day?

So where's these cloven hooves of yours from WOTG's?

KJ

WarMachine · November 25th, 2009, 06:56 PM

In reverse order:

1. Sorry for the long delay in reply. I'm working weird hours, and it affects my online time in weird ways.

2. I have actually seen the entire "Burke In A Cocoon" sequence, with him begging Ripley to help him, and her abandoning him to his fate, so that she can find Newt. It appeared on a cable airing (HBO, I think) at least 15 years ago. There is also a sequence before the meeting where he tells her that her daughter had died of cancer at age 60+ several years before her rescue by the salvage team.

3. On the cloven "hoof" - singular. You made me jog my memory -- it wasn't a still, but a re-inserted scene. It was a very long while back, either in the very earliest days of the "real" "SCI-FI" Channel, or on my now gone (

) copy of WOTG on VHS (from the classic TV club?).

The scene is immediately after Apollo and Starbuck look at each other, aghast, as they stand in the hatchway. This is just before Sheba runs up - Apollo is turning to keep her from seeing it.

The shot itself is a cut-to, shifting instantly from Apollo/Starbuck-aghast to a down-shot of what looks like a charred pig's left-hind leg, and panning up just a bit, to what might be the knee joint.

The whole sequence is not more than two seconds in length.

I thought it was stupid-cool, but back then there were no real 'interwebz' (*nods to the wife for the term*), and I was not involved in any fan clubs. I had seen several of the telemovies over the years, and just assumed that someone found the footage and inserted it.

That was the one and only time I have seen it, anywhere. Now that I know of the controversy, I think it's likely that GAL heard about the airing, and quietly demanded that the scene be removed and never re-aired -- I've heard of stranger things in Hollyweird.....

I'll check my DVD copy, but I don't know that it's in there.....

KJ · November 27th, 2009, 05:17 AM

Sorry, but i have my doubts as to whether or not neither rumored lost scene/sequences ever aired at all.

To everyone's knowledge about Aliens. 'The Burke Cocooned' scene never left the cutting room floor, Cameron cut it cos the scene is out of phase with the Alien's 'gestation/birth' period soo soon after the aliens attacked the medlab sequence and Burke apparently was killed eariler. The only clear reference to the 'legendary' cut scene in all versions, is when an explosion goes off as Ripley nears the Queen's lair of eggs! This is after Ripley found Newt's tracer and would've originally cut to Burke grabbing her arm after hearing the kid's scream. Its stated as such by the newt actress, on the DVD commentary.

Same might be said of the 'cloven hooves' footage of War Of The Gods, which earlier this year we all talked about on here. Which over time easily could be playing tricks on us, as to what we all saw in our youths. Be careful what you're saying, cos just so many fans would grill you or challenge the basis of your opinion regarding both deleted scenes. Not calling you a liar, as we've all had accounts and memory lapses of something being shown long ago regarding BG. Aliens not so much as all versions are accounted for. Overall though, there's no point saying what might've appeared and believing in it, if there's no way to prove it.

TV stations would also have records of airings etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarMachine

The scene is immediately after Apollo and Starbuck look at each other, aghast, as they stand in the hatchway. This is just before Sheba runs up - Apollo is turning to keep her from seeing it.

The shot itself is a cut-to, shifting instantly from Apollo/Starbuck-aghast to a down-shot of what looks like a charred pig's left-hind leg, and panning up just a bit, to what might be the knee joint.

The whole sequence is not more than two seconds in length.

A 2 second scene in length, isn't a long enough "camera pan" to a shocking revelation! And if i remember correctly, the moment Starbuck and Apollo look aghast at one another, is when Sheba calls out to both of them from afar. If anything the jarring cut, showing that something was cut in the episode and telemovie version of WOTG's. Is when Apollo pulls back on the damaged doorway and looks down. After he calls out to Starbuck, the editing itself shows that something was blatantly cutout?

Until the next major Galactica convention event or anything regarding the movie. That whole debate about the cloven hooves is going to remain until Larson flat out comes out with, it was filmed then the footage destroyed or it was cutout and the footage is in bad shape and can't ever be played again etc. Although i think the subtle but evasive references he made on the 2003 BG DVD's introduction featurette, was a sign of what might've happened already to the scene itself.

Glen Larson: We originally had a shot of him laying in ashes. I should say for the DVD, that the scene was 'Cloven Hooves'!

Why say it and not reveal it?

KJ

peter noble · November 28th, 2009, 03:25 AM

As this keeps coming up, I emailed Chris Pappas, who knows just about everything there is to know about the show, and he said, as far as he knows, no such footage exists.

KJ · November 28th, 2009, 03:51 AM

Perhaps nothing exists today of the footage. But the editing of the scene is just way too haphazzard to say nothing ever was shot. Apollo saw something and it was cut, nuff said. As time went on, its clear that people's memory plays up etc. So i don't think anyone's outright lying nor exaggerating looking back too much, some facts are wrong or mistaken is all.

Personally i've always gone with what Anna Lockhart said.

It was shot but looked like "dead sheep", so along with the network (ABC) it was dropped for its 'satanic' implications and intentions. Which i see as true, as people forget how conserverative TV stations have been about religous/demonic content in programmes (especially back then) whether they be works of fiction of fact. And the reports of ABC deleted the scene have always been so much of the news given to us fans over the years to be simply rejected over what any 'one' individual claims or says.

It was originally shot then cutout (as the existing scene shows due to bad cuts and trims). And perhaps no longer exists currently. Thats what i believe!

Whether it be Chris Pappas or Steven A. Simak, alot of people associated with the series or have throughly investigated the show, have made all kinds of revelations or come up with various bits of news of the years. And they haven't all been the same nor said or agreed with one another over the facts and events that transpired and happened. It was shot then cut from the episode, as the editing of the entire scene has always dictated to viewers!

If the 'cloven hooves' weren't ever filmed, then the references to it should've been made in some sly subtle way and the editing been far more seemless, that isn't the case with the part 2 WOTG's revelation on the 'Red Planet'!

Battlestar Galactica suffered from bad editing in places when it came down to scenes playing out (as did the Mission Galactica), but it obvious when footage is cut or left out, as the sudden jump and lack of continuity of what followed on from the previous piece of footage, says it all.

KJ

jewels · November 29th, 2009, 08:18 PM

I thought I remembered Anne saying that it hadn't even been shot because the prop looked so bad (fake). Though the difference between shooting it and deciding it looked fake and the director looking at the prop and deciding it was too fake to shoot is so slender, my memory could be quite faulty. I think it was a case of a bad prop detracting from the story. Better, for the story, if the image was left an unseen mystery.

KJ · December 2nd, 2009, 11:19 AM

Well, if we aren't getting official remastered episodes done by Universal of classic Battlestar. Then there's always the fan edits like Dave's.

Battlestar Galactica - Faithful Revelations (Fan Edit)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUbd4SlcSGc

Still, like i've stated and pointed out before hand though. I'd really like to make WOTG bigger in scope if it were to be remastered with updated CGI effects, colour corrections, HD digital remastering; from a fan edit perspective, etc.

So many things could be enhanced and any flubs or technical editing errors of the original two episodes fixed. But any future fan edits would no doubt improve upon. The revelation scene on the Red Planet and Iblis powers (just so he really comes across as a really powerful 'Paranormal/Supernatural' being!).

Beyond that, its the perfect BG storyline and episode, that stands head & shoulders to any other Sci-Fi series, both then and now.

KJ