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Old April 6th, 2003, 10:30 PM   #1
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Default Is BSG Noah's Ark, or Moses' Exodus?

I've read alot of posts that seem to compare BSG with the story of Noah's Ark, and I can certainly see some similarities. Especially since the original name of the series was "Adam's Ark"

However, I think that a closer parallel would be the story of Moses' exodus from Egypt. In the Moses story, Moses led his people out of bondage from the Egyptians. In BSG Adama led hispeople from the oppression of the Cylons. In the story of Moses, he parted the red sea. In BSG, Adama ordered viper pilots to part the "Red Sea" of the Nebula. In the Mosesstory, Moses is led by god to search for his people's "promise land." In BSG, Adama leads his people to search for Earth. In the Moses story, there are 12 Hebrew tribes, and a 13th lost tribe. In the BSG story, there are 12 colonies with a lost 13th colony. In the Moses story, he his people wander the desert for 40 years. In BSG, the Colonials wander the stars for, ?

If my grasp on the Moses stories is a little rusty, hey, it's been a long time since Sunday School. Just trying to start a fun discussion that drops the whole RDM thing to respect Micheleh's friendly request.

Anyway, what do all of you think?

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Old April 6th, 2003, 10:36 PM   #2
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Default Biblical References

are thick in the basic premise of BSG, I think.

The stories I heard indicate Glen Larson was a devout Mormon and that influenced much of the mystical/spiritual aspect of BSG. So, the answer to your question is probably "yes".



I think there are influences of both biblical stories there, myself.

Not that I'm a churchgoer, either (last time I was in a church was my own wedding).

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Old April 6th, 2003, 11:12 PM   #3
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Default No disrespect to you LSF

I wrote above, "Just trying to start a fun discussion that drops the whole RDM thing to respect Micheleh's friendly request."

Just read your conversation with Micheleh. Didn't mean ti "dis" you man. I agree with eveything you said in that thread. Just trying to lighten things up a bit for those who want it.
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Old April 6th, 2003, 11:27 PM   #4
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Lol! Thanks, JJ!

I'm not a biblical scholar, but the Exodus references are familiar. Oddly contrary in a way, though, if you count the 'Egyptian' styling of many of the BG costumes and props. Could this have been a reference to the possibility of the arrival of the 13th tribe on earth as one which brought about great and inexplicable technological advancement? (For example, the Great Pyramids.) And does this imply that the existance of man on earth predated the arrival of the 13th tribe? And could it imply the existence of other human civilizations as descendents of the original ancients who fled Kobol?

Hmmm.......
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Old April 6th, 2003, 11:28 PM   #5
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Default But anyway

Dawg, I agree it carries aspects of both. I wonder are there other biblical references and if so what are they?

Also, interesting side note on the Mormons. I may be wrong but I believe that it is part of their faith that if you lead a good life here, and are worthy that you will become a god and create your own planet with it's own beings. That we are in fact, gods in training. But I may be wrong on that, may be a different faith.
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Old April 6th, 2003, 11:43 PM   #6
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Default It is odd Micheleh

that he would choose to use Egyptian styling for the Colonials. That's why I wonder if he used Von Daniken's work and others as inpsiration. According many of the prevailing Ancient Astonaut theories, the Egyptians as we know them did not build the pyramids but instead inherited the culture and structures from a previous high tech civilizaition.
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Old April 6th, 2003, 11:56 PM   #7
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You wrote: "And does this imply that the existance of man on earth predated the arrival of the 13th tribe?"

According to Zecharia Sitchin's work in which he translatesancient Sumerian texts, the humans were created as a work horse by the Nephilim (which means "those who came down" and commonly referred to as "the sons of God") to mine gold. These Nephilim came from a planet in our own solar system and were trying to use the gold to repair the damaged atmophere of their planet which was ultimately destroyed. The humans with the aid of some of the more rebellious Nephilim, which were called the Annunaki, helped us to rebel against our slavery.
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Old April 8th, 2003, 06:30 PM   #8
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Default Another parallel??

While we're drawing parallels:

12 Disciples of Christ - 1 traitor (Judas)
12 Quorum members - 1 traitor (Baltar)


Just a random thought,

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Old April 8th, 2003, 06:39 PM   #9
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Probably not a mistake. If you check the "Real Count Iblis" thread, http://pub99.ezboard.com/fthecylonal...picID=55.topic , (which was expertly researched BTW), you'll note that Iblis has a prominent place in mythology. Thus, the Beings of Light also represent something specific. I haven't loaded the video. Anyone recall offhand just how many of the Beings of Light were standing in the circle in the Ship of Lights? I'm also debating what they represented.
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Old April 8th, 2003, 07:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
While we're drawing parallels:

12 Disciples of Christ - 1 traitor (Judas)
12 Quorum members - 1 traitor (Baltar)


Just a random thought,

Nope BST your point was spot on, Battlestar Galactica has biblical and mythological references to Earth's past, present and is set in the possible future (i.e. The real mystery of the series, whether or not it is set in the past or future?)

Baltar was BG's Judas as was Count Iblis BG's Satan or John BG's Archangel Gabriel, Adama BG's Noah or Moses? Metaphor and references to the extreme!

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Old April 8th, 2003, 08:35 PM   #11
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It is my impression that Mr. Larson was (perhaps still is) a devout Mormon, and as such will have studied the Bible far more extensively than I, a devout pagan (bring on the virgin sacrifices! - second door on the left, I'll be in when I'm done with my oysters).

According to my younger brothers (both of whom converted in high school, only one of whom still follows that church at all), there were many, many parallels between BSG's mythology and Mormon teachings. Eternal sealings, the 13 tribes, etc. The fact Adama was a priest in addition to Commander even has a link, apparently.

And, yes, it is also my understanding that if a Mormon man leads a good life here, he gets a whole planet to populate all by himself.

Probably with 70 virgins.

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Old April 8th, 2003, 08:50 PM   #12
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two brain: in experiment in terra there were 3 around the table Apollo was on before John showed himself.

Dawg: I think Mormons believe that the marriage relationship goes on into eternity - sealed. the 70 virgins are for the adherents of Islam martyred for it (if they are male of course). You be wishful thinkin' on that one!
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Old April 8th, 2003, 09:09 PM   #13
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I think the 70 virgin's thing was meant as a joke, jewels.

And yes, when you're married in the temple, you are "sealed" for eternity.

Another fun fact is that the name of the "home" planet, Kobol, is from a book called "The Pearl Of Great Price", which refers to a home planet called Kolob.
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Old April 8th, 2003, 09:52 PM   #14
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Excellent Parallel BST, I hadn't thought of that.

As far as when the series took place, I would think that given the final scene in The Hand of God it would have had to of taken place sometime after 1969, the landing on the moon. I thought I read somewhere that Mr.Larson's original intentions for when they reached Earth was a futuistic setting as opposed to the past, or present day.

Alsoif it's true that Mormons to believe that they are gods in training, I wonder if the beings of light would represent humnas who have transcended to that level?

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Old April 9th, 2003, 01:25 AM   #15
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Default Well...

My take on the Noah's Ark/Exodus angle would be that BSG followed more the vein of the Exodus. But it's true, there are quite a few Biblical references throughout as well as some Mormon touches.

According to the Mormon faith ( and I'm no expert so please correct me if I'm wrong ), but they believe that all life began on a planet called 'Kolob'. Arrange the letters a bit ....you get Kobol.

Also, Adama finds the tablets on the pyramid walls in "Lost Planet of the Gods" which describes the Exodus of the 13th tribe. And of course the fleet made the Exodus from the colonies.

The references stated above about the 12 members of the council equalling the 12 disciples, and Baltar being a Judas is dead on the money.



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Old April 9th, 2003, 05:28 AM   #16
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I believe that Larson started with a fairly Mormon premise but that was filtered somewhat with the ancient astronaut theories popular at the time. These claimed that the Egyptians were the survivors of a higher civilization of Atlantis/Lemuria (the flavors changed a bit) who were themselves descended from the stars. The intro to each episode practically laid this out with the "Those who believe ..." bit.

Sitchen, bless him, is a horrible translator of Sumerian Mythology and went on his own way. I don't recognize any of his work in the BSG series but I do see a lot of Daniken's. I personally think this replaced most of the Mormonism, although I didn't know about the Kolob/Kobol thing. That's interesting.

Eden being on Kobol was a direct rip-off of a two theories popular in the mid-70s by the speculation crowd that said that Eden was actually located on another planet that was doomed (for reasons that vary with different authors) and the inhabitants came to Earth.

For the younger folks, there was a lot of this in throughout the 70s.

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Old April 9th, 2003, 06:40 AM   #17
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Default Combination

Galactica combined both Noah's Ark and The Exodus into one great story. Baltar is like a Judas in a sense and Iblis is the Devil. Adama would be the equivelent of Moses.
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Old April 9th, 2003, 08:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flamingo Girl
I think the 70 virgin's thing was meant as a joke, jewels.
I thought it was a joke too. that's why I teased about wishful thinkin'
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Old April 9th, 2003, 08:09 AM   #19
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Did we mention the 12 tribes of man parallelling the 12 tribes of Israel?

And the lost tribe thing might refer back to some of those tribes which stop being mentioned after some of the various invasions into ancient Israel.

Mr. Larson was definitely cooking up an interesting tale....

Oh: OT: saw a few minutes of JAG last night and Bud cracked me up: He was reciting Episodes of Star Trek which "told the same stories" as Shakespeare's plays, Macbeth and a few others to an English professor. She said he gave her a unique teaching tool.
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Old April 9th, 2003, 08:16 AM   #20
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Default If I recall correctly,

there was a lost 13th hebrew tribe according to the Old Testament.

The Kolob thing is fascinating. What does the faith say about Kolob. What is it like? Where is it? What happened to it? Anyone know?
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Old April 9th, 2003, 08:37 AM   #21
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What are the 13 hebrew tribes names? They used the zodiac signs in the series.
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Old April 9th, 2003, 08:46 AM   #22
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Default Regarding names of Tribes

According to this site (can not vouch for accuracy) the tribes were named after the sons of Jacob.

http://www.philosophyforum.net/Relig...3%20Tribes.htm
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Old April 9th, 2003, 09:18 AM   #24
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Yes, the thirteen tribes are named for the sons of Isreal, who was in essence the father of the Jews. I can't remember off-hand the names of all of them, however.

The story of the planet Kolob was found on some plates aquired and translated by Joseph Smith. The were lost by the family some time later, and reapeared in a New York Museum.
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Old April 10th, 2003, 06:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
I would think that given the final scene in The Hand of God it would have had to of taken place sometime after 1969, the landing on the moon
That was "the door that was left open", for the discovery of Earth. Galactica (and the R.T.F.) could have found Earth, in the present, or in the future, depending on how far the radio signal had travelled.

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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:17 PM   #27
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Default Not to second guess you Warrior,

This quote:

"One of their doctrines is that of continued progression to ultimate perfection. They say God was but a man, who went out developing and increasing until be reached his present high capacity; and they teach that Mormons will be equal to him; in a word, that good Mormons will become gods."

Is from this source:

http://www.helpingmormons.org/Mormonism_Unveiled_1.htm

In fact if you enter, "Mormons will become gods" in a Google search you get quite a few matches.

Maybe it's a smaller section of the entire faith. Warrior, are there different factions or whatever you might call them, within the Mormon faith?
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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:39 PM   #28
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Default Couldn't find anything

On the Church of Latter Day Saints website all I could find was this:

"Someday, like everyone else, your life on Earth will end and your physical body will die. But your spirit will not die. At the time of physical death, your spirit will go to the spirit world, where you will continue to learn and progress."

From:
http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1144-1,00.html

"You are here to receive a body and to gain experience. Heavenly Father wants you to learn those things that will help you become more like Him."

From:
http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1123-1,00.html

Maybe it's a misinterpretaion of these ideas, or a small offshoot of the main body of Mormonism?
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Old April 11th, 2003, 08:28 PM   #29
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Warrior, I dodn't remember anything about ceasing to exist, I heard about "Outer Darkness" which is as far removed from the presence of Heavenly Father as you could get, basically banned from the kingdoms of heaven and set loose on your own, so that you might as well not exist.
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Old June 17th, 2003, 10:25 AM   #30
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bump!
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