Galactica's Vipers

Qeutzal · November 30th, 2005, 11:17 AM

Has anyone ever thought of how the Galactica replenishes its fighters? after a battle with the cylons, the Galactica will lose several Vipers. Does she build them herself or are they built on another ship in the fleet.

Darrell Lawrence · November 30th, 2005, 11:20 AM

Why is this in the News section?

Moved to the Galactica discussion area.

Griffworks · November 30th, 2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeutzal

Has anyone ever thought of how the Galactica replenishes its fighters? after a battle with the cylons, the Galactica will lose several Vipers. Does she build them herself or are they built on another ship in the fleet.

I figure that several of those ships together created all the parts needed to make Vipers or shuttles or landrams or replacement pieces/parts for other ships. All they'd need is the raw materials and the trained personnel. Celestra was an electronics industrial ship, so there's the electronic components for at least replacement parts.

WarMachine · November 30th, 2005, 09:13 PM

I have to sign on behind Griffworks, with the addendum that as some have suggested, the Gal might have been carrying "spare" Vipers, in addition to the "67...25 of our own" that they picked up after Cimtar. Any 'spares' would likely not have been flyable due to being down for maintenance.

That said, as far as Season 1 goes, most of the post-Cimtar losses are sustained at Carillon and Kobol; until LL, I don't think the Gal loses more that 5 Vipers, total. After LL, a large part of the Peg's Silver Spar Squadron comes over to the Gal, and the numbers become unworkable, as we don't know what those numbers were.

That's a good point, BTW, on the Celestra; in addition to the mining, livestock and Agro ships, there are likely several other "pure industry" ships in the RTFF.....

Lara · December 1st, 2005, 02:54 AM

I have a vaugue memory of a foundry ship being mentioned at one point. If they had salvage vehicles they could bring debris, or even crashed ships back for reprocessing/ rebuilds.

Later versions might be simpler (and probably less safe)

Of course diminishing resources would have been the major threat on a long journey, especially without Trek style replication abilities (altho I seem to remember replicataors getting a mention in one of the Thurston books..), and speaking of Trek it was something I found unsatisfactory about Voyager: it didn't matter how much they got the ship shot up or dented, it always looked pristine ...unless it was a important plot point that something was broken or in short supply like the recent ep about the nueral net gel packs and the alien cheese microbes...

Even if the Galactica was only looking after her own crew, at some point even her vast stores would be depleted .

Cheers,
Lara

peter noble · December 1st, 2005, 12:55 PM

This is the foundry ship.

Griffworks · December 1st, 2005, 01:16 PM

Yessir, also called "Flattop". I've also heard the ship name "Haephestus" attributed to it, tho haven't been able to confirm this.

Lara · December 2nd, 2005, 12:46 AM

I also recall it being called the Haephastus.

This would fit since Haephastus was the greek god of fire/ furnaces and blacksmithing

Cheers,
Lara

Qeutzal · December 2nd, 2005, 06:54 AM

Since battlestar galactica lasted one year, we got to see only one kind of

. I believe there were different versions of the viper but never got to see them. I am pretty sure that the Galactica can carry more fighters. Maybe that is why the fleet was destroyed, most of the squadrens were left behind and all the battlestars were not carrying a full complement of vipers. As big as the Galactica is, I believe she can carry more than just RED and BLUE squadren. I believe she can carry at least six to eight squadrens.

what does every body think?

Darrell Lawrence · December 2nd, 2005, 08:46 AM

Actually, we got to see 3 versions of Vipers in the show-

The main Viper shown every ep.

The 6th Millenium Viper *and* the spruced up "probe" Viper, both from the ep "The Long Patrol".

WarMachine · December 2nd, 2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeutzal

Since battlestar galactica lasted one year, we got to see only one kind of

. I believe there were different versions of the viper but never got to see them. I am pretty sure that the Galactica can carry more fighters. Maybe that is why the fleet was destroyed, most of the squadrens were left behind and all the battlestars were not carrying a full complement of vipers. As big as the Galactica is, I believe she can carry more than just RED and BLUE squadren. I believe she can carry at least six to eight squadrens.

what does every body think?

Well, based on this work: http://ravensbranch.allen.com/galacticasize.html I think that the Gal likely carries around 60-90 Vipers total; along with the shuttles, there just isn't that much space, in there...

Qeutzal · December 2nd, 2005, 10:00 AM

True, Starbuck's viper in "The Long Patrol" was a sooped up version of the viper but still the same fighter, with its weapons removed and the C.O.R.A. computer inserted. I am talking like the one i saw, the cobra series, similar to the viper but with four engins. Maybe an intercepter, a fighter- bomber or a bomber version.

Griffworks · December 3rd, 2005, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lara

I also recall it being called the Haephastus.

This would fit since Haephastus was the greek god of fire/ furnaces and blacksmithing

Yeah, I knew that about the Greek pantheon connection. I suspect that's likely from a fan source, tho. Regardless, I like the name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Well, based on this work: http://ravensbranch.allen.com/galacticasize.html I think that the Gal likely carries around 60-90 Vipers total; along with the shuttles, there just isn't that much space, in there...

Actually, there's plenty of space in each Flight Pod on either the Old or the New Galactica. Each Flight Pod could easily hold the same internal area as close to two of our modern day US Navy nuclear aircraft carriers (CVN's) - which can carry upwards of 120 aircraft and have a standard crew of close to 5,000 for that configuration. Even if you accept the 4,130 ft length for the TOS Galactica, there's still plenty of room in those Flight Pods for as many as 100 in each, plus half a dozen or so shuttles. That'd give a total of at least 200 fighters and a dozen or so shuttles.

rjandron · December 3rd, 2005, 03:38 PM

I seem to recall the Foundry Ship being named Hephaestus in Richard Hatch's Armageddon.

WarMachine · December 3rd, 2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffworks

...Actually, there's plenty of space in each Flight Pod on either the Old or the New Galactica. Each Flight Pod could easily hold the same internal area as close to two of our modern day US Navy nuclear aircraft carriers (CVN's) - which can carry upwards of 120 aircraft and have a standard crew of close to 5,000 for that configuration. Even if you accept the 4,130 ft length for the TOS Galactica, there's still plenty of room in those Flight Pods for as many as 100 in each, plus half a dozen or so shuttles. That'd give a total of at least 200 fighters and a dozen or so shuttles.

Ah, but the CVNs don't have to worry about life support and keeping an atmosphere in, either.

Based on sixteen launch tubes in each pod, and the long landing deck, and the need for space for parking and maintenance for at minimum 12 shuttlecraft, you don't have a lot of left-over space...I'm allowing for 32 Vipers per pod, along with 6 shuttles; they can likely stash some extra Viper-frames in nooks and crannies, and spread others throughout the Fleet, but I think that c.100 Vipers after LL is the upper end of their capacity.....

Griffworks · December 3rd, 2005, 10:08 PM

I don't think that life support requirements would be a problem in the pods, nor do I feel that they would limit themselves to just 64 Vipers. I would imagine that ships as advanced as Galactica wouldn't have the same bulky life support requirements that modern day astronauts do.

And again, each flight pod is pretty close to being twice as long as a CVN, with what looks to me to be probably close to three times the internal area of one CVN. The Flight Pods are thicker than a CVN as well - and a CVN holds quite a bit more than 32 aircraft. Plenty of room in there for as many as 100 Vipers per Flight Pod.

Senmut · December 4th, 2005, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter noble

This is the foundry ship.

Do we have dimensions on this ship? My thinking is that it can probably dock with the Galactica, using the recessed areas near the bow.

Qeutzal · December 5th, 2005, 09:53 PM

I also think that the Galactica can hold more

than people think. In my own crude way I have made an estimate of how many she can carry. Here it goes. Given the number of 16 launch tubes in each landing bay and if you have a viper in each tube, you have begining number of 32 (1 sq). Then add another 32 (2sq) on stand by for emediate launch which brings the total to 64 on the flight deck.
Then there are the facilities down below, which should have enough space for 64 more(sq 3 & 4) which brings the total to 128 fighters. At any given time vipers must have routine maitenance so add another 32 (5 sq). And to complete the total, add the last 32 (6 sq), not on board, but on patrol or in war games which gives the grand total of 6 squadrens or 192 vipers in all.

peter noble · December 6th, 2005, 03:58 AM

Griffworks · December 6th, 2005, 06:06 AM

Kewel picture! Is that from the old unofficial blueprint set? Know where that set my be available besides eBay?

I think that proves that point that it's obvious that they can hold more than 32 Vipers per Flight Pod, considering I just counted 66 in that pic.

WarMachine · December 6th, 2005, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter noble

Hi Peter,

I like that pic! Where did it come from, and where's the legend? If I counted correctly, there is space for about 66 Vipers, c.6-10 shuttles, plus a Landram parking/staging area on the main flight deck level; times 2, that's about 120 Vipers per Battlestar, with c.20 shuttles.....

Never let it be said that I am infallible; that said, are we talking about what's on-screen, or what's a possible maximum? On-screen, I don't think the Gal had more than 100 Vipers as an absolute maximum following LL/FiS...not from capacity/space, but from loss/attrition.

In re the 'lower deck', if that is being used as a work/parts-storage space, you just might be able to squeeze in a total of c.120 Vipers per pod, with a capability of lauching batches of 15-16 at a time(I really need to see that legend!).

On the other side, don't forget that the Viper's fuel storage has to go somewhere....

Griffworks · December 6th, 2005, 06:18 AM

Don't forget that those elevators that go down. There's gotta be even more storage space below, even if it's maintenance bays. Plus, there's only one Viper in a launch bay in the above pic. Maybe the others are on patrol...?

Griffworks · December 6th, 2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senmut

Do we have dimensions on this ship? My thinking is that it can probably dock with the Galactica, using the recessed areas near the bow.

Please, nobody beat me up, but according to the official TNS BSG site, the Flattop has the following dimensions:

L: 715’/ 217.93m W: 285’ / 86.87m H: 245’ / 74.68m

These seem to be consistant w/the visuals from TOS. The folks at Zoic Studios - who are almost all big TOS fans, BTW! - were shooting for as accurate to visuals as they could get for their CGI models for TNS based upon TOS footage. It looks right to me, based upon TOS Screencaps I've taken myself, as I'd love to scratchbuild this ship - along w/the other ships from both TOS and TNS - and have done some research in that regard. The only thing approaching official stat's that we've got are from what the folks at Zoic Studios did for TNS and that's what I've got for my official measurements on various ships. I believe that one or two Zoic folks had access to a couple of the TOS Studio Models and did their best to base measurements off of those. Otherwise, if you discount the TNS website info, we're left w/guesswork - or fan speculation. Two of these Flattops are w/the TNS RTF, in case anybody cares - one appears to be blue and the other yellow.

spcglider · December 6th, 2005, 07:40 AM

there was a very iinteresting piece of fanfic from waaaaay back. I think it was originally printed in What You Fancy by Clean Slate Press. It talked about how the fleet was running low on proper repair parts for the vipers and that they were making do with ersatz replacements. Evidently they decide that there are physical control rods that run the length of the fuselage and in a particularly heart-wrenching scene, one of the warriors (I think it's Apollo) gets speared through the chest by one of these failed rods and has a most spectacular and drawn-out death scene.

Go figure.

-G

peter noble · December 6th, 2005, 02:19 PM

WarMachine,

The landing bay blueprint is party of a set available from http://www.kennedyshipyards.com/

I had to join two separate scans together to post it. Even though it's speculative, I think it gives a good indication of how big the bay is, espescially when you consider the Big G is one nautical mile long.

spcglider · December 7th, 2005, 08:35 AM

Umm...how big is a nautical mile, Peter?

When I was younger, I worked in the IDS tower in downtown Minneapolis. Its a great big slab of a building. Based on the (perhaps erroneous) information that the galactica was 5000 feet long, I roughly figured that, volume-wise, one could fit FOUR IDS towers with room to spare in ONE of the Galactica outrigger pods.

That's BIG.

And when you consider that a Viper is 39 feet long, that leaves LOTS of room for launch rails, landing platforms, repair bays, elevators, shuttle and landram storage, spares bins, and gease bots.

-G

peter noble · December 7th, 2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spcglider

Umm...how big is a nautical mile, Peter?

6,080 feet sir.

Best,

Peter

Griffworks · December 10th, 2005, 05:26 PM

Thanks to a generous deal from Bluesquad2001, I just picked up the Kennedy Shipayrds TOS & TNS battlestar print sets, as well as the Universal Pictures blueprint set. The latter set is... disappointing... to say the least. I was expecting blueprints of Galactica in there and all that's included is what appear to be set drawings. However, it was a great deal, so I ain't really complainin'!

The two sets from Kennedy Shipyards are nice, but the TOS set is somewhat disappointing as I just realized that the landing bays aren't accurate to what we've seen on-screen. For starters, the immediate landing area looks nothing like what we see on the show, as well as the launch tube areas are lacking the "garage doors" behind the Vipers! Still, it's excellent for giving you a good idea of just how much space those landing bays/flight pods have in them. There are other areas that I don't agree with, but like all fan-works like this I can take them w/o being overly critical. They're still nice sets, IMNSHO.

Many thanks to Bluesquad2001 for the excellent deal on these!

Anyhow, just wanted to mention that.

Qeutzal · December 15th, 2005, 08:17 AM

Even though we only saw the

, the Galactica surely had more than one type of fighter in her arsenal. There had to be some type of intercepter, a heavy fighter, a fighter-bomber or bomber. Look at Star Wars, you see the X wing, Y wing, A wing and all the variations of the Tie fighter.

Griffworks · December 15th, 2005, 09:05 AM

I could see them needing a heavy bomber, but the standard Viper seems to do everything they need in the way of interception, recon and fighter-bomber type duties. Why go with a bunch of different fighter designs that might not share component systems when you can easily just use one all-around workhorse design for the bulk of your needs?