Paradis Review-Spoilers

[kingfish]

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Battlesta...621&st=0&#last




I just started this one. It opens with Baltar having nightmares. Imperious Leader is taunting him. He is told by the Leader that he is the perfect traitor because he has never loved. The Cylons find him disfunctional. Sounds familiar. There is also a civil war brewing among the Cylons, biological and technological. The leader boasts that there must be unity at all costs. Another familiar figure to appear before Baltar is Count Iblis as he was one thousand yahren ago holding a loathsome reptilian pet, a Cylon. Iblis boasts that he is the greatest traitor because he founded the planet Cylon and with genetic engineering as well as cybernetic implants destroyed the human race.

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On the Galactica and Daedelus, a conference is going one pertaining to the planet Paradis. Dr Salik is the lead scientist. Obviously he is doing Dr Wilker's job again. Apollo leads a mission to reconoiter the planet and finds that there is life down there. He lands his ship near a native village and discovers they resemble the Borillians.

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Baltar is in love with Athena. He believes that wealth and power are the key to winning her. He was after all a member of the council of twelve.

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Paradis is intoxicating. Many of the people in the fleet want to set foot on it. Starbuck is in a bar on the Galactica where the bartender talks about the place to no end. He hasn't even been there but word is filtering throughout the fleet.

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The Council meets to discuss the problems facing the Colonials, one of the biggest Tylieum. President Tigh states that the planet probably has enough of it and it is easy pickings. There is also a ceremony taking place on the planet hosted by Sheba, the dedication/honoring of Commander Cain the hero of Kobol. It was Cain's sacrifice that allowed the Colonial's to escape with their lives in the first place. Sheba states that her father wasn't a man who just lived for conflict but was one who wanted them to be safe. One council member talks of canabalizing worthless ships to both fix others and provide housing on the planet.

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Gar'Tokk visits the planet with Apollo. He decides to take a run when invited by the inhabitants who are known as the Gamon. The Gamon can be cousins to the Borellian's. Gar'Tokk feels like he has never felt before, free and happy. Gar'Tokk is wondering what the place is doing to him. Apollo even offers to let him stay there when the quest is to continue. Gar'Tokk doesn't answer. The leader of the Gamon is named Yarto. he offers Apollo a gift in the form of a book. The book is immediately recognized as being written by the Thirteenth tribe.

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Ryis who is/was an archetect is Apollo's biggest problem. The man has dreams and they involve Paradis. He wants to design a new society, ie New Caprica City. Ryis also mentions the idea of population growth, ie the Colonials can grow it by 7% in no time. Apollo knows where the conversation is going. He asks Ryis what about the Red sun which the palnet orbits, ie the stability to which Ryis has no answer.
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Starbuck and Athena are on the planet discussing the Cylons or lack of them. Starbuck wonders what the Warriors use will be when they aren't around.


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It is also told that the Gamon can communicate with each other telepathically. They also seen to have dream quests like the native American's (Chakotay of Voyager for example). There women seem to be hidden as Starbuck observes.

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Baltar is on the planet teaching his first class in ethics and history to a group of youngsters. Boomer walks in on him and sits down. He also mentions the fact of Baltar once hijacking him by blaster ( Baltar's Escape). Boomer also mentions the fact that the class is being monitored making Baltar even more paraniod then he already is. Baltar points out that if it hadn't been for the destruction of the colonies the Colonial economy probably would have collapsed due to military spending. Baltar is also suffering from migrains. His dreams are getting worse and in one of them Lucifer's many flashing lights are crawling up and down his body attacking him.


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Cassi and Apollo are at a celebration with Koren who is now Apollo's adopted son. Koren is very loyal to Apollo. He even gets in a fight with another boy when the boy begins knocking the Warriors. There is a sudden rain storm and Apollo, Cassi, and Koren find a girl named Caran who is trapped in quicksand. Apollo uses his laser to sever a tree limb which will act as a pole to snag the girl. They are successful and Cassi immediately sees the opportunity to play matchmaker and tells them of the dance that is taking place. Koren states that he has no idea how to dance.

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Cassi returns to the galactica and his having bouts of histeria. She figures it might be the pregnancy. She would really be sobbing if Apollo told her the true identity of the father, Count Iblis. Starbuck walks in and kisses her passionately. However the kiss is short lived when Apollo walks in and threatens to punch Starbuck in the face as he once did in Rebellion when he thought Starbuck dishonored Athena. This is juvenile IMHO. The characters are like in highschool. Apollo doesn't do anything to Starbuck because he has a meeting with President Tigh on the planet.

Tigh has had a house built on Paradis. Ryis helped in the design. He now gardens and also mixes a delicious drink for Sheba who comes to see him. They discuss Baltar. Tigh says he will make his students think which is a positive. He also metions that Baltar is on a short leash since he has an ankle tracker attached. Sheba and Tigh are at peace.

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The Nomen have built their own settlement, what few of them there are left. Gar'Tokk states how the Colonials want to build a city, new caprica and put down roots. He also receives a visit from Yarto who manages to enter their camp undetected. No one can do that to the Nomen. Yarto states the fact of his visit. the Gamon are concerned with the idea of the Colonials remaining a long period of time on the planet.

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Cassi confronts Starbuck about kissing her and he comments, "You kissed back." She also mentions the fact that Cain was a great lover who had many women. Cain was the most complex man that she had ever known. Athena finds out about the kiss and has a fit. Starbuck retorts that he wants to be left alone. Apollo wonders if she can bring herself down a notch in order to beloved by Starbuck.

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[kingfish]

Ryis has construction going at a frantic pace. In fact New Caprica is about to expand upon Gamon sacred ground. Ryis is also making certain that the Warriors aren't receiving the supplies to get the fleet capable of traveling. He manages to infuriate Apollo by having utter contempt for his leadership. Ryis mentions that the natives don't want the Colonials near the sacred ground/mountain because there is a huge load of tylium there. He even dismisses Apollo who reminds him, "That is Commander to you." On top of this the Gamon have begun to gather in larger numbers.

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The people who work for Ryis are no better. When a sea creature devours one of them, they have an excuse to rank on the Warriors. On of the bosses of the project mentions that the female Warriors are only good for one thing, socilators. He also mentions the fact that the day is coming where the civilians will hold the power and the warriors will be nothing. he doesn't live to see that day for the sea creature devours him.


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Apollo's troubles continue to mount. Ryis is asserting more and more authority. Cassi's pregnancy also isn't helping matters

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Troy, Trays, Dalton, and a new cadet, Rhaya are on patrol when Dalton has an idea, some stunt flying. The Vipers are in the planet's atmosphere and atmospheric flying can be difficult. Dalton is making the maneuvers easily enough when her ship loses power for no reason at all. Dalton must eject before the ship is destroyed and receives a concussion. The other pilots also lose power and are only able to land by the skin of their teeth. troy has no idea what went wrong. They find Dalton who is lectured on the stupidity by Cadet Rhaya who Troy shuts up immediately. The four of them make their way to a cave and find it has metallic shards as well as endless passages. It runs beneath the mountain.

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Sheba goes in search of the missing pilots. While flying in the clouds of Paradis she has thoughts of her father Cain and how she sees him in all of the Viper Pilots she looks at. She also recounts how the civilians thought of Cain as nothing but a swaggering martinet. Others thought him an idot with no lack of diplomatic savvy.
However Cain proved them wrong when he gave his life to save them. Sheba doesn't have time for further recollections as her ship loses power and she crash lands. Her ship survives but she needs to take a rest.

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Cassi manages to find a midwife named K'Ris. She gives birth to a baby boy who is taken by K'Ris. Apollo is summoned and issues orders that a search take place. The baby is found and K'Ris is arrested. Cassi is reunited with the baby boy who Apollo doesn't want to hold. He knows the story that Baltar told him might be true after all. Gar'Tokk arrives and Apollo is aleviated of the burden by stating that he wishes to question why K'Ris did it. K'Ris' answer is simple, she believes the child evil and wanted to perform a ritual cleansing/excorcism. Gar'Tokk agrees with the elderly gammon woman, he has felt the same thing. Apollo orders the woman released but is overruled. he is told that the only ones who can do that is the Council of Twelve since they are now operating under civilian authority.

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Apollo and Gar'Tokk head to Ryis' office and notice that thwe workers are armed with lasers. he also notices a group of Gamon who fall victim to them right in front of his face. Their chests are smoking craters. The Colonials are now at war with the Gamon by no choice of Apollo's.

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What the Colonials are doing to the Gamon is the same that they did to the Cylons in Moore's mini. Tigh orders a meeting of the Council. There is no representitive for the Gamon's there. Tigh makes concessions for both sides. Apollo states that the Colonials are guests of the Gamon and should respect their wishes. He also states the fact that the Sun needs to be studied for instability. Tigh states that there is enough room on the planet for both races to live in peace. Apollo is horrified as the Colonial's are repeating history. The Borellians suffered at the hands of the Colonilas, mass genocide. It seems that the Colonials aren't as innocent as we once believed. Ryis has no remorse and his belief is survival of the fittest.

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Sheba wakes from her sleep and finds a Gamon woman to her surprise. The woman leads her to the cave where Troy, Trays, and the rest of the warriors are. The woman leads them into the cave when a Gamon war party comes investigating. Deep within the cave a startling discovery, the hulks of many spaceships and a city that will make New Caprica look like a pebble. The woman manages to make telepathic contact with Sheba. She explains that there was a great war many yahrens ago and the survivors decided to abandon technology. Another plot twist is Rhaya. Rhaya is an advocate of cain and his tactics fight for what you believe in, ie take back the colonies. Sheba likes this philosophy and notices that Rhaya has a birthmark on her arm that is similar to Cain's. Rhaya could be Sheba's sister.


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The hardcover edition of this book was printed July 2003 before the mini aired, I believe.

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Baltar's nightmares continue. many around him believe he is mad just like Gaius Baltar on Nu Galactica. Baltar decides he needs someone to talk to and goes to Apollo. Baltar says he believes he is somehow in contact with the Cylons. he also states that there is a civil war and a new breed of Cylon will emerge, deadlier then ever. Apollo realizes that they can't remain on paradis. He has a meeting with Tigh who has a new pet named Cyranus that makes a bleweee sound when it is hungry. Apollo states that the Colonials are acting like dictators. Tigh memntions the fact that he loved Adama but the quest for Earth might have been in error. Paradis might be their Earth.

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Athena is described as a pain in the ass at times. the word bastard is used a few times. Athena orders Starbuck to look for the missing pilots but avoid risk since he is one of the best pilots they have. The idea of fraternization among the ranks is mentioned as being bad for the chain of command. However in the case of the Colonials procreation is highly recommended since they are a dwindling number. I guess this is why they are always so horny on the new show.

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The new manager is furious over the lack of attention the sea creature is getting, two are dead. He is surprised when three Gamon show up and offer to help. They are given a small boat and go in search of the creature. They use a horn to lure the thing and kill it with a poison. They manage to recover the name tags of the two who were killed and the manager has a great respect for them. Upon hearing that a state of war will exist between the two races he exclaims that the Council should have been fed to the creature.

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Apollo meets with one of the native chiefs who tell him telepathically that the Gamon want the Colonials off the planet once their fleet is repaired. Apollo understands but knows only more bloodshed is ahead.
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Cassi confronts Apollo about her and the baby wanting them to be sealed and live as a family. Apollo telles her that he needs more time to decide. He also defends Starbuck when Cassi says their situation reminds her of the same between her and Starbuck when he learned of her pregnancy that resulted in the birth of Dalton. Apollo tells her that Starbuck never abandoned anybody, ie the man isn't ready for commitment. Apollo also will not commit to her and the baby until he is certain of the baby's true nature.

[kingfish]

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Baltar goes and sees Dr Wilker about the headaches and recieves very little help. Wilker believes it is in his mind, psychosomatic. Wilker was a scientist on tos and not a medical doctor. Wilker prescribes more drugs for Baltar.
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On the planet Rhaya is seperated from the rest of the team. Sheba has come to the conclusion that it was the Gamon who made the Vipers lose power through telepathy. troy decides that they must find Rhaya but Sheba suggests that only Troy and the gamon guide go. She is overrulled. This struck me since she outranks them all. They manage to find Rhaya. Her leg is caught inbetween some rocks. They manage to free her and also make a startling discovery, a huge ark-like space ship Troy manages to enter the ship and makes a horrendous discovery, thousands of dead humanoids in preservation pods. They quickly surmise that this was one of the fabled ships that the Thirteenth Tribe used and the myths are now turning into reality. The group heads for the surface and is greeted by Starbuck and Boomer.

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Starbuck heads for the Galactica with Dalton. On the way she has a cigar, like father like daughter. I wonder if this was whom Kara Thrace was really patterned after. After leaving dalton in safe hands Starbuck returns to the planet with Sheba, and a few others to find that there is another standoff between the workers and the Gamon. A few more Gamon are killed and the warriors try to interceed which results in Starbuck having a number of laser pistols pointed at his head. The situation is very tense.

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Apollo attends a council meeting lead by Sir Opis. Apollo must listen as Opis states that the Colonials are finished with the quest for Earth. he must also listen as Opis orders the Galactica's lasers used against the opposition if he calls for it. Apollo figured he would just hear the old bastard out. However this is going too far in Apollo's view.

Apollo reiterates that the Gamon have offered only temporary sanctuary as per his agreement with the tribal leaders which the Council is now breaking. Opis is still not buying it and even suggests that if Apollo stays his course the Council will remove him. Opis even suggests that Colonial warriors be sent to the surface to help the civil authorities. Apollo has won a small victory because he knows that the warriors will not blatantly kill for no reason at all.

Apollo manages to contact Starbuck with the news and also learns that Starbuck has managed to difuse the tense situation, ie many who had guns pointed at his head have lowered them.


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WTF:

Athena and Starbuck have a fight onboard the Daedelus. She believes that he is trying to avoid her and has committment issues. Starbuck is speechless, like a fish out of water. She calls him a bastard a number of times and asks if he has the "BALLS" to ever love somebody. She also states that he has a love affair with himself. I remember Hatch mentioning in an interview that Dirk was in love with himself. Starbuck retorts by stating that Athena is a crazy bitch and has no right to talk to him like this. Athena finally admits that she loves Starbuck but all he can do is go for a drink.

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Apollo manages to make telepathic contact with Yarto. Yarto expresses the greivances of the natives.

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[kingfish]

Apollo, Tigh, and Athena have a conference pertaining to the Gamon. Apollo is reluctant to kill them but when Tigh mentions that he and whoever goes along with him will lose command, Athena says she has no problem killing the natives.
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Caran is taking a liking to Koren. However a solonite bomb puts an end to the relationship. She is killed.

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I can't wait to finish this book if not for obvious reasons, it STINKS..It STINKS.

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Apollo decides to seek the advice of Baltar as to the situation on Paradis. Baltar tells him that a leader must make life and death decisions everyday. In essence he must have the balls to do it. Baltar then collapses before Apollo's eyes.

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On the planet the Gamon are coming out in droves. It isn't clear as to where they were hidiing. Ryis is scared out of his pants and communicates this fear to Opis who reassures him that the Battlestars will lay down a bombardment if necessary. Gar'Tokk manages to inform Apollo of the great masses of Gamon assembling and also that Boomer who has been studying the alien ship had a breakthrough. Apollo tells Gar'Tokk that he can't leave at this time and he should help Boomer.

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Captain Page who is a member of the military police is given orders that don't sit well with him and will put him in conflict with Commander Apollo whom he respects. His son even took Baltar's class and agreed to spy on Baltar as to his true loyalties. The author makes the point that his job sucks. They are to board both battlestars and make sure the Council's orders are carried out to the letter.

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Apollo tries to contact Gar'Tokk and Starbuck and has no success. He decides to contact Athena and is amazed to see a struggle taking place on the Daedalus' bridge. Page tells Apollo of his mission and Apollo understands or seems to understand. Apollo quickly manages to disguise himself as a mechanic and takes a Viper. The civilian police have their own patrol ships which are around the battlestar to keep the warriors from escaping. there are too many of them until Starbuck shows up and destroys two of them sending the rest scurrying for safty. While all of this is happening he is puffing on his cigar. How can he smoke in a pressurized/oxygen enriched environment is beyond me.

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Starbuck and Apollo find the cave where Boomer is and discover to their amazement that the Ark ship caused a calamity on Paradise. As a result of the Colonials landing many yahrens ago, the Gamons began to fight amongst themselves. Until then they were a peaceful people. The Thirteenth tribe wanted to leave but the Gamon wouldn't let them, ie none of the craft could operate. if this wasn't bad the Gmon sun is due to go nova in years to come so staying wasn't an option. The log ends with the self destruction of the ship by it's leader. Apollo realizes his worst fears.

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At another Council meeting the vote is unanomous, both battlestars are to unleash their fury on the Gamon. Communications have been cut off and Tigh has no choice but to send an injured/recovering Dalton to tell Apollo. Tigh insists that the good guys be rounded up. In an un Tigh like gesture he tells Dalton to ignite a small bomb to cover their escape from the battlestar. Dalton manages to find Rhaya.

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The finale:

Apollo and Starbuck come under fire before they can leave the cave with the vital information. Starbuck is critically injured but Apollo feals that he will not die since he already died once but was resurrected in resurrection. The group is saved by Sheba, Dalton, Trays, and Rhaya who manage to find an alternate way into the cave. Gar'Tokk manages to kill one of the attackers before the rest surrender. Apollo has been wounded.

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On the Daedalus, Athena is stalling for time. She is surrounded by the Council who looks like they would insinuate a mugging. This dialogue/writting is subpar for a BG novel. Athena doesn't fire and Apollo arrives in time to stop the massacre. there are also reports of gamon dropping dead by the thousands. Apollo reports that the would be assasins work for Ryis. Ryis figured if the Warriors believed that the Gamon killed Apollo, Starbuck, and Boomer they would ally themselves to him. Apollo also states that the planet is going to be destroyed but Ryis counters that the scientists have no proof. Apollo tells him the answer for that is the planet's electromagnetic field makes it impossible to get accurate reading.

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Caran managed to survive the blast. The way the author left the reader with little info one would believe her dead.
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Apollo visits Baltar in sickbay only to be given the shock of his life. Baltar's brain isn't his own but was replaced by the Cylons at some point. Baltar is like a living camera/transmitter. I guess this is where Ron Moore got the idea for the chip in Gaius' head. The doctors can't operate or baltar would die.

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The Gamon reassure Apollo that they will be alright when the planet goes nova. They will evolve into a higher dimension.

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Baltar tells Cassi that the baby needs her undivided attention. there is a great potential for the child, ie this could be Dr Zee. Cassi also confides to Baltar that Apollo has asked for her hand. She is really shocked when Starbuck comes out of his coma and also asks for her hand.

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Cassi turns both offers of marrage down and tells Apollo he has a destiny ( this is the title of the next book).

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The Galactica and other ships begin to move away from Paradis at conventional speeds before engaging their FTL drives. This also sounds like another riped off concept for the new series.



Thoughts:

1) The print is too small. it gives one a headache if they read too much.

2) This novel makes rebellion a nobel prize novel.

3) Christopher Golden was the best ghost Hatch had writting the book.

4) There is another novel due, hopefully Linaweaver will not pen it or so help us the series will die a painfull death.

[Eric Paddon]

"I can't wait to finish this book if not for obvious reasons, it STINKS..It STINKS."

Paul, you are a braver man than I just to get through that one because after "Warhawk" I think it was, I couldn't sit through a full one again, and every one since then I just leaf through at the local Borders and right away it doesn't take long for me to realize that these novels have totally missed the boat in filling the need for good *published* Galactica stories.

There is a lot of fanfic out there done by people both here and not of this board that reflects a genuine desire to not just write original Galactica stories, but to above all stay true to the continuity of what was established, and it's the total absence of this in Hatch's novels that at least in my case, is the most infuriating aspect of what he and his ghostwriters produce.

"the series will die a painful death"

From my standpoint it's been stillborn since the first novel. I wish I hadn't deleted a thing that a fellow fanfic author, Sanna Guerin, and I had started on called the "Nitpickers Guide To Armageddon" where in the space of just 50 pages we had found so much that contradicted established premises of the series because I think those kinds of things would be a real eye=opener if done for the entire course of the novel series.

This would of course raise the legit question of if it such a big deal to be concerned about such lack of continuity? The reason I say yes, is because the other major sci-fi properties, it has always seemed to me, get that kind of meticulous continuity check in their published novels, especially with Star Wars and Star Trek. Galactica deserves no less (and in a way, the reason why it hasn't enjoyed this simple privilege only adds to the sense of frustration for me of how Galactica has received a kind of second class treatment over the years in so many ways, culminating in the disappointment that resulted in the current situation).

[Senmut]

Uhhhhh....what you said, EP!

[Eric Paddon]

And Senmut knows, being one of those fellow-fanfic-scribes himself!

[GreggAllinson]

I liked Armageddon- in fact, it was my introduction to Galactica- and Warhawk too, but that third book was terrible. I haven't bothered with the subsequent ones.

[Senmut]

GA, where'd you get that av?

[repcisg]

In the not too distant past I contacted the publishers to find out what it would take to do a Galactica book. What I learned was very depressing.

First off Richard owns the Literary Rights to Galactica. Only he can “Author” a book on the subject.

Second, Universal gets a hefty share of the proceeds and a hefty fee.

Third the publisher can only afford to spend a small amount of time on each book, the ghostwriter must produce a finished manuscript in a fixed amount of time. Third book went to the printers unfinished.

Fourth, Universal reserves the right to change the book before it goes to the printer. This has been done on all the books.

Fifth, Universal has required Richard to submit an outline for each book for pre approval before it is started. There is now a list of titles pending publication. Anything new goes to the end of the list.

My take on all this is simple, Universal deliberately created a situation where books about the original series would be trash. They have far too much control, and will not allow enough time or money to be spent on making them better.

It would be better to say the books are written by Universal and coauthored by Richard.

[Micheleh]

Originally Posted by repcisg

First off Richard owns the Literary Rights to Galactica. Only he can “Author” a book on the subject.

Who told you that? It's not true.

Originally Posted by repcisg

Second, Universal gets a hefty share of the proceeds and a hefty fee.

TTBOMK, though I'll call on this one, IBooks gets the lion's share.

Originally Posted by repcisg

Third the publisher can only afford to spend a small amount of time on each book, the ghostwriter must produce a finished manuscript in a fixed amount of time. Third book went to the printers unfinished.

The third book had a rough sent to the publisher for review before finish editing. They used it without offering the chance for further edits.

Originally Posted by repcisg

Fourth, Universal reserves the right to change the book before it goes to the printer. This has been done on all the books.

The IBooks editor likes to change things before printing as well.

Originally Posted by repcisg

Fifth, Universal has required Richard to submit an outline for each book for pre approval before it is started. There is now a list of titles pending publication. Anything new goes to the end of the list.

And if they don't like a plot point or scene, off it goes.

Originally Posted by repcisg

My take on all this is simple, Universal deliberately created a situation where books about the original series would be trash. They have far too much control, and will not allow enough time or money to be spent on making them better.

It would be better to say the books are written by Universal and coauthored by Richard.

I don't think it's like that. It simply, from what I've seen, a matter of Universal having strict guidelines, IBooks having perhaps too much control, a line editor who tweaks to the point of occasional authorship, and a tendency of the company to make timing and usage decisions without regard for the author or co-author.

[Eric Paddon]

Whether the fault is ultimately more with Richard, his ghostwriters or with Universal ultimately doesn't matter from my standpoint. The bottom line is that we've been stuck with novels that aren't doing the series right in comparison with published novels for other sci-fi properties, and this is something I wish the fanbase could find a way of getting rectified somehow.

[repcisg]

IBooks is owned by Byron Preiss Visual Publications, with Simon & Schuster as distributor.

I went to Byron Preiss Visual Publications for the info.

And Eric is right, which ever way the cookie crumbles, the books are not doing us any favors.

[KJ]

Eric, the novels are far more Galactica than the TNS is by far! True i won't lie they have problems BIG PROBLEMS! but don't condem them as the anti-christ in written form just yet.

The first two i picture could be made into a decent adaptation for a continuation (Long as you remove the "Pure Blooded Kobollian" thing can lead, and human D.N.A. was involved with the Cylons downfall i.e. Iblis etc) Yeah they have enough interesting things to move Galactica onwards in terms of a revival. Whether that be with reading material or not.

The third? while it was a sign Richard wasn't on top form with the Galactica books he is doing. I gotta admit, it was the very first strong indication they were based around Apollo too much. The E.S.P. doesn't bug me as much as it does many people, i'm glad that part from "War Of The Gods" has been expanded upon for the books, i just see it being done in the wrong way is all. Hell i wouldn't mind if they went all Akira for one novel, long as it done in classic Battlestar Galactica style. Sadly Resurrection does everything wrong, except for the epic 'Battle' at the end.

The Colonials Vs The Cylon Empire and the Chitain

I dare anyone to tell me they wouldn't like to see that battle happen in live action!

Cut Hatch some lack for once Eric! while ghostwriter maybe be argued about, the novels do introduce new an interesting concepts and technology i kinda wish a continuation would do? While the first three are interesting. i do agree with you the fourth onwards are very flawed.

I've read/ browsed through Rebellion in shops like Boarders, Waterstones etc. and it isn't a patch on the first three novels. i assume the other are like that, as i haven't read them although "Destiny" is now out. So i suppose more browsing in stores is called for again.

Unless the Berkley novels are gonna be all re-released. I take it you guys aren't satisifed with BG reading material huh?

I liked Armageddon- in fact, it was my introduction to Galactica- and Warhawk too, but that third book was terrible. I haven't bothered with the subsequent ones.

Guess your like me Gregg.

But i like the first three. cos i'll take the those three over TNS. i just feel that i, can't bitch about everything. Because not everything will be catered to everybody. You've got to like some of the Galactica stuff available out there. I don't see sex changes and drunk colonels so while no where near perfect, i'd rate the Hatch novels wayyyyyy.....above TNS. Hell the TNS isn't even in Hatch's book's league by comparsion.

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

Originally Posted by Lord Kingjason

Cut Hatch some lack for once Eric!........I take it you guys aren't satisifed with BG reading material huh?

Nope, I can't cut him slack for a simple reason. I've been writing fanfic for the better part of 11 years now and know from personal experience what you should and should not do when writing a Galactica story. It requires knowing the characters inside out and above all, having a flawless knowledge of what went on in the series and making sure that what you write *harmonizes* with what's been already established. The long-term appeal of Battlestar Galactica rests in a fascination with the characters and storylines that were established in the series and that means you can not forget all about critical plot points like (1) Baltar having been a prisoner (2) the SOL giving the coordinates for Earth at the end of WOTG (3) the development of the Starbuck-Cassie and Apollo-Sheba relationships over the course of the series etc. If you show that you're not going to do simple fact-checking like that before you decide to start writing a story, then you're ultimately asking for trouble.

As for Galactica reading material, I don't need Hatch's novels. I have my own stories, and the stories of quite a few other people I've worked with over the years, and I think that for a lot of people in the Galactica fanbase, they are missing a chance to read some truly outstanding work that can fill the void for TOS in ways they never expected. Just take a look at the granddaddy of all fanfic sites, http://www.galacticafanfic.com/bsg-page.html run by Robert Hanczyk, where you will find some 300 plus stories assembled over the last decade for easy reading including the ongoing "second season project" that Senmut, myself and some others have been contributing to. All of these are labors of love in which you will find people trying to not just write good stories, but people who above all take their meticulous knowledge of all details of the series to keep things consistent. If you're able to give our work a chance sometime when possible, you may find the results to be a welcome antidote to whatever blues the coming debut of TNS might be giving you. At any rate, we always welcome more comments and feedback, because for people like me, writing fanfic isn't merely a lark, it's a carefully crafted effort designed to fill a needed void for Galactica fans in general.

[repcisg]

Eric is right, the books should follow the series much more closely. Richard has acknowledged this point. He is moving them in that direction as best he can. The problem is the die was cast some time ago, significant changes will require Richard to go back to Universal (NBC) and renegotiate the deal. This I do not see happening.

Richard has moved on, he acknowledged two years ago he cannot bring Galactica back to the big screen or the small one. To support his new project (Magellan) he needed to separate himself from TOS and generate credibility within the industry, he is doing that by joining the new series.

TOS is down to us, Glen Larson and Tom DeSanto.

[BST]

Agreed, repcisg. Apparently, Universal didn't think Richard would be able to deliver. His decision to distance himself from TOS is a good choice since, with Magellan, it will give him the proverbial "notch on the belt", when that dream comes to fruition.

I don't think Larson and DeSanto are a "bad" fallback position, though.

The kicker is that, after Glen's remarks earlier this month, we're going to have to see some movement in that direction or else it will just be considered idle talk. I know that a lot is still in flux, due to the unknown quantity about the new show's performs, in the States. Perhaps the view will be less cloudy after the first of the new year.

[Sept17th]

Like the mini-series I should not be able to keep away from the novels, like the mini-series the novels leave me with no interest. My thoughts on the last paper-back Resurection I believe left me thinking "was Hatch on this show"?

What ever the reason it's a damn shame we only get novels from Richard Hatch who's acting I enjoy but that does not make him a great author. Time again it just sucks being a Battlestar Galactica fan its no surprise people drop off while throwing their hands in the air with disgust.

[KJ]

Richard has moved on, he acknowledged two years ago he cannot bring Galactica back to the big screen or the small one. To support his new project (Magellan) he needed to separate himself from TOS and generate credibility within the industry, he is doing that by joining the new series.

TOS is down to us, Glen Larson and Tom DeSanto.

It's a sad state of affairs when its put across like that guys! Thanks anyway for the heads up repcisg. Universal Studios, bunch of goddamn 'Bastards'. I pray those letters to DeSanto aren't in vain.

Agreed, repcisg. Apparently, Universal didn't think Richard would be able to deliver. His decision to distance himself from TOS is a good choice since, with Magellan, it will give him the proverbial "notch on the belt", when that dream comes to fruition.

I don't think Larson and DeSanto are a "bad" fallback position, though.

Richard Hatch ain't the only one struggling with studios. A few years back didn't Richard Anderson from the Six Million Dollar Man fight like a bastard himself to have a blockbuster big budget, revival of the Six Milllion Dollar Man franchise? That and Kevin Smith's smart script (titled The Bionic Man) was turned down. Sci-Fi Channel even had a short piece on it i.e. advert mentioning Anderson's attempts to do a major revivial (they were airing the repeats of the show at the time) i'm sure Richard Hatch is one of many former TV stars wanting a revival of the show they starred in. But if push comes to shove, Richard Hatch is better off doing his own thing.

DeSanto has my support and i pray Larson listens to the fans so things can get moving.

Time again it just sucks being a Battlestar Galactica fan its no surprise people drop off while throwing their hands in the air with disgust.

Man, you said a mouthful! I agree with you 100% on that. It's gonna take over 3 decades for Battlestar Galactica fans to do what the Original Star Trek series fans did for the TOS Trek crew. To get a big screen movie version going. But it looks like we're taking 30 years rather, to do what Trek fans did in 10.

Oh the humanity!

KJ

[KJ]

I also pray for a 30th Anniversary convention where we can all get together (held in famous place eveyone can get to) and we can all hammer out our greivances about how it should be done, then actually move on to doing it.

I'm sure the 25th Galacticon was great. And i hope in 4 years time, there is another. This fanbase has been fighting tooth and nail. Sometimes you feel like giving up and others you feel like going out "The Wild Bunch" style till we get what we want. some say bitching don't work, but it keeps you jacked up. To continue the struggle of sticking by this revival process. Writing letters and posting.

Guess it has at least one positive use.

Everyone continue to bitch on, get passionate and support BG to the bitter end. Even if you, move on with your life never forget.

KJ

[kingfish]

I believe that Gil Gerard tried to buy the rights for Buck Rogers as well. Right now it would probably be easier to get a BR Continuation series Twiki and all.

[Sept17th]

Originally Posted by Micheleh

- Content deleted by Moderator -

Ouch! As one who has read Hatch's novels Hack is a word that has come to mind. A major part of this thread is about why Paddon and others can't get published within the Battlestar franchise.


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[Micheleh]

What everyone thinks of his novels is up to them, I won't debate that. I reaize I did go off, but of the few things in life that piss me off, it's someone who will come across with sneering superiority and clain that they can do oh so much better with nothing to back it up.

It's a weak person who can't claim their own skill without demeaning another by comparison.

[KJ]

It's a weak person who can't claim their own skill without demeaning another by comparison.

I realise micheleh is being serious. But let me state those who fall into that catogory. Like Assholes, snobs and hypocrites!

Most of all movie/film critics. GOD i hate those gasbags most of all. They actually can destroy a person career with their destructive comments, i find that most disgusting of all. How can people allow things like that to happen at all, is beyond me.

While Eric is actually cool with me and i hope he is with me? i have to say Eric does run down the Richard Hatch novels too much. Thats not to say he fits the catogory Micheleh puts him in. But i don't think the novels are the anti-christ in written form is all, so why treat them as such?

Most people agree while they don't like'em the first two are more Battlestar Galactica than what came afterwards. Either that or they not Battlestar Galactica at all.

As for the fanfic writers. I've said long before in the past many of their works deserve to be "Published" with bells on if need be? So you know i'm not just saying stuff. That and a major Battlestar Galactica Berkley's novel re-release far as BG reading material is concerned. I'm tired of hunting for Galactica stuff, i want it to be readily available as many other well known Sci-Fi franchises out there.

I want to see both novels and comics far as Battlestar Galactica to be independently managed and published once again. But Richard Hatch has done both the novels and his BG:TSC trailers far as keeping Galactica's name out there, that and i met the man briefly over a month ago at a convention. He doesn't deserve to be treated like he committed a royal sin.

Like the TNS if you don't like don't watch or in this case don't read them. but i agree with Micheleh don't bad mouth Hatch. Man deserves respect, he shows TONS of respect for the TOS BG, far more than some popcorn "QUOTING" loving writer of the TNS we've all heard about who doesn't give a rat ass about TOS fans. O.K. so the novels ain't perfect, take it up wit him if thats the case.

If i met Ron Moore, i know i've got the guts to tell him to his face, how he should never have been associated with the Galactica universe and his ideas "Suck" royally! If Hatch's novels bug the hell outta you, take it up with him on his offical website.

But i'd respect the guy who done more for Galactica, that the one who doesn't know "jack" writes for it and tears it apart with his ideas and tells you to watch the new show and add to the ratings come January.

Hatch = "RESPECT" Moore = "F*** YOU"

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

Originally Posted by Micheleh

- Content deleted by Moderator.

I have done something, and that's spend 11 years of my spare time expressing my creativity in ways I have a natural affinity for doing so, and all the time doing it knowing I'd never get a penny for my efforts but willing to do it because of my simple love for Galactica, and until you actually take the time to read and judge what I've written on its merits, I can easily recognize your criticism for the petty vindictiveness that it is.


Edit: Content in quote box removed due to primary remarks, in previous post, having been deleted.

[Eric Paddon]

"don't bad mouth Hatch."

In an earlier post, I said that the issue isn't whether Hatch, the ghostwriter or Universal is ultimately responsible for what's been put out but the quality of what has and the standards applied to it. I don't think any of those criticisms are uncalled for, and those who have taken the time to apply more exacting standards to Galactica storywriting I think should not be afraid to express those sentiments. And I'm not simply speaking of myself, but of all fanfic writers who have decided to use their spare time to flex their creative muscles out of sheer love for Battlestar Galactica, and all the time knowing they won't get a penny for their efforts.

Richard is not entitled to a free pass regarding the quality or lack thereof in his novels because of what he may have done regarding possible revival efforts, because they are two separate issues completely. If this is the new line of thinking then what next? Do we then not criticize any piece of writing with Glen Larson's name on it because he is the creator of Galactica?

[BST]

Originally Posted by Micheleh

Content deleted by Moderator.

Michele,

You're out of line.

Richard's books are in the public domain and, therefore, are available for critique, by anyone - either a person who likes them or one who does not. If I understand Eric's remark*, correctly, there are some things that a writer should and should not do, when writing follow-up stories to an already established storyline. Some don't mind, some do.

* there are additional remarks, earlier in the thread, which illustrate this.

Your remark, however, is a lot more personal, as in attack, towards a member of this forum. You can debate issues, to your heart's content, in this forum but, the line is drawn when members attack members.


(I'll give you a bit of time to clean it up, or purge it. Otherwise,....)

And NO, I'm not amused.


BST


Edit: Content in quote box removed due to primary remarks, in previous post, having been deleted.

[BST]

...and now, to return to the discussion......

The thread is still open and all are invited to discuss the topic of the thread.

BST

[Eric Paddon]

To get back to the theme of this thread, I think what is ultimately needed is for some way to get Universal to relax the standards toward the kind of thing that Star Trek fans have with their series. The number of original novels that have been written and published for Trek have been vast and numerous, and I think to their credit, they are not handicapped by all having to conform to one single universe in which they must all complement each other (which is what must happen with published Star Wars trilogy novels). I have read outstanding work like A.C. Crispin's "Yesterday's Son" and it's sequel that I think is superior to any Trek movie other than II, and I have also seen lesser fare that IMO missed the mark ("Ishmael" with its attempt to make Spock descended from Mark Lenard's character from "Here Come The Brides"), but even when good, bad or so-so I am glad that the Trek fans got their chance to show their creativity and give Trek fans a diverse number of stories to choose from.

Galactica, I think at some point, deserves the same. And then the fanbase will have a chance to better make their own judgments.

But in the meantime, I do encourage people to read the fanfic that is available on the net, and let them be the judge of whether or not there are people in Galactica fanfic writing who if they wrote their stories for a property with more relaxed standards of how to get published like Star Trek is, would already have a good deal available on the open market. Thank God the internet has enabled people like myself, Senmut, Maggie Hutchison, Sanna Guerin, and others in this forum like Martok to share their work with a wider audience than would have been possible a decade ago when many of us started to write for the first time just for ourselves to satisfy our curiosity of how things turned out, and have kept writing ever since.

[repcisg]

I do hope you all understand I’m not putting Richard down, he has done more for the franchise than any other and that includes Glen Larson. It’s a shame with all his efforts that his publisher has not put more energy and time into helping Richard produce high quality books. That is part of the publisher’s job.

Some time ago I proposed a series of book projects with the folks here at fleets, forming writing teams to create and promote a number of Galactica books. The goal was to fill one shelf in Barns & Noble with Galatica related stories. Like Star Wars and Star Trek have done.

The many short stories about Galactica could be pulled together in to collections, for publication.

As part of the project I approached Byron Press, they told me Richard had exclusive rights and that any work I or any other wished to publish had to be co-authored by Richard and that Universal had to approve it. Now I published this info, including the actual Email here at Fleets, it killed the book projects cold. I’ll dig through my files to see if I still have it in my archives.

If the info I was given was in fact inaccurate, and Richard does not have an exclusive license then we need to get back on the band wagon with the books. I had two books planned and well under way, OWD & I had started building a radio show based on the Galactica Universe; that too needs to be resurrected.

Going ever further I proposed forming a support group for Richard to preview the books and make recommendations on how to improve them. This would be a select group, who would agree to keep the books contents confidential. I think you would call them readers. In the software industry we would call them Beta testers. This group’s sole objective would be to insure Richards books are of the highest quality and as close to cannon as possible. Richard’s stature as an author would increase and his voice in bringing back Galactica would have real credibility.

I still offer this support.