Battlestar and Von Daniken

[Sept17th]

A conversation I prefer to have here...

I have never read Von Daniken so I am no expert on his “crap”. The subject has come up many times the past two years. If by “Von Daniken Crap” one is meaning the whole extraterrestrials and ancient earth societies connection I am a fan. It is a major part of what I enjoy about Battlestar.

“life here began out there…with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, Toltec’s or the Mayans…some believe…

Who has debunked the Von Daniken “crap”? Does that mean everybody is in consensus?

I know many Battlestar fans enjoy the “mythos” of the show and find it more interesting than “Near Future Western Civilization in Space”.

Chariots of the Gods turned out to be more fiction than science. The concepts brought up are still entertaining and intriguing they are also very much a critical part of telling the Battlestar story right.

Stargate has managed to keep the ideas interesting for eight seasons.

[Gemini1999]

I never heard that Von Daniken's theories had been debunked...

I remember reading them back in the 70's when they were popular and found them fascinating. Even if they have been somewhat debunked - who really knows for sure? I think that scientific truth is a great thing, but the "dreamer" in me still likes to believe in the unknown or the impossible. There are a lot of things in our history as a species that no one will ever know for sure.

I think that it's fun to keep an open mind until someone REALLY knows one way or another! Or....can provide a better explanation.

If it weren't for Von Daniken, BSG, SG-1 & SGA would be pretty boring!

Best,
Bryan

[thomas7g]

For me its like strology and fortune cookies. Neither of which are really logical to believe in. But its fun.



But no.. I dont know of anyone specific who has debunked his "crap" lol.

Or should I say his "felgercarb"? I think that is a quite proper use of the term!

[PingPongBallEye]

I'm afraid von Daniken hasn't help up well to examination. While the idea makes for some fun SF (as we know from BSG!), that's all it appears to be...fiction. Some useful links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Von_Danniken
http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html
http://www.astrosociety.org/educatio...obibprint.html

[Charybdis]

I have read Chariots of the Gods and there is another great book he came out with called The Eyes of the Sphinx which deals specifically with ancient Egypt and how aliens founded or played a major role in Egypt...

LIke others have said, mostly flighty theories about this this stuff, but does make you think and gives you a laugh...

[justjackrandom]

Originally Posted by PingPongBallEye

I'm afraid von Daniken hasn't help up well to examination. While the idea makes for some fun SF (as we know from BSG!), that's all it appears to be...fiction.

It’s true von Daniken hasn't held up to well, and the lengths he went to to prove his point have shown him to be more sensationalist than scholar. This does not necessarily invalidate his hypothesis however. There are a number of other researchers that support his premise, or at least support the idea that our current understanding of our past is on par with our understanding of the universe (limited, and potentially seriously flawed).

JJR

[PingPongBallEye]

Originally Posted by justjackrandom

It’s true von Daniken hasn't held up to well, and the lengths he went to to prove his point have shown him to be more sensationalist than scholar. This does not necessarily invalidate his hypothesis however. There are a number of other researchers that support his premise, or at least support the idea that our current understanding of our past is on par with our understanding of the universe (limited, and potentially seriously flawed).

JJR

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if lots of stuff we thought was wrong. But when you start positing visits from alien civilizations, you've got a pretty high evidentary hurdle to leap, and I've yet to see anyone do it convincingly.

Depressingly, one thing that seems to be clear is that there are some basic flaws in our theories of planetary formation. We've now found planets circling around many other stars...but none of the systems discovered resemble ours. Almost all of them feature a star circled (very closely) by gas giants bigger than Jupiter. The catch is that our tech isn't yet good enough to find "small" (as in Earth-sized) bodies yet, though I think the recently found a rocky planet around a star that's about twice the size of Earth.

But the upshot is that if solar systems like ours are more rare than we thought, life might be more rare, too. And that might suggest that the simplest solution to Fermi's Paradox is correct: we do;'t see any aliens because there aren't any.

That, IMHO, would stink.

[Archangel]

But considering how many stars there our galaxy alone, wouldn't the odds of only one star having only one planet that supports (relatively) intelligent life be very nearly a statistical impossibility?

[PingPongBallEye]

I had to do a quick search for this, I remember reading it a couple years ago. I still haven't picked up "Rare Earth," probably because its conclusion is so depressing that it keeps getting leapfrogged by other books on my list! It's part 1 of a long 5-part discussion of the subject of the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom..._1_020715.html

[Charybdis]

I am currently reading a book about how precious our planet really is, and apparently, the author's research indicates that just because there are millions and millions of other stars, that doesn't really indicate that there is another 'earth' perfect for life...I'm still reading so I can't comment on it too much just yet...

The author's main theory is that earth is one of a kind, placed where it is for discovery of our universe by intelligent life. It's called "The Privileged Planet."

[justjackrandom]

Probability 1, Why There Must Be Intelligent Life in the Universe, by Amir D. Aczel refines Drake’s 1961 equation. It is probability study applied to the question of ETL. While some of his points can be argued, they tend to be swallowed up by the magnitude of the numbers he is dealing with. His work is very convincing.

JJR

[Dawg]

With the universe as uncomprehendingly vast as it is, with the sheer multitudes of stars within our own galaxy (to say nothing of the uncounted numbers of galaxies in the universe), with the growing number of planetary systems being discovered just in our own neighborhood, I think it's foolish - and incredibly ego-centric - to believe we are the only intellegent life in the universe.

Frankly, I don't need Von Daniken or anybody else to convince me there's a good chance we're not alone - common sense all by itself dictates that life exists on other worlds.

I am
Dawg

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by PingPongBallEye

I'm afraid von Daniken hasn't help up well to examination. While the idea makes for some fun SF (as we know from BSG!), that's all it appears to be...fiction. Some useful links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Von_Danniken
http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html
http://www.astrosociety.org/educatio...obibprint.html

Thanks for the link PingPongBallEye

[moctezuma]

Here is a small bio of the man:

"The Swiss author Erich von Daniken was born April 14th 1935 in a town called Zofingen. He studied at the College of St-Michel in Fribourg, in that period he spent his time study-ing ancient holy writings. He wrote his first book while maniging a 5-star Hotel in Switzerland, it's called Chariots of the Gods, which was an immediate bestseller in the US and about 40 other countries. Von Daniken married in 1960 with Elisabeth Skaja, they had a daughter three years later. Von Daniken became famous in the US by a television special based on his first book. The German TV station SAT-1 started a twenty-five part series in 1993 with and by Erich von Daniken, the title was ' Auf den Spuren der All-Machtigen' (Pathways of the Gods). Three years later the American company ABC/Kane produced another documentary which can be seen on the Discovery Channel. RTL, the biggest German television network, showed the film in November of that year and it was seen by over 7,7 million people in Germany alone. ABC and RTL are still filming with Erich von Daniken in the present.

Von Daniken's books have been translated in 28 languages (some of them), they've made two documentaries from his book (Chariots of the Gods and Messages of the Gods), he has given over 3000 lectures 1/6th of which at universities, and on top of that he travels about 100.000 miles each year. The Archaeology, Astronautics and SETI Research Association ( AAS RA) was founded by von Daniken in 1998. Today he lives in the small mountain village of Beatenberg, Switzerland about 40 miles from Berne. At he moment he is working together with two groups to build a fantastic theme park called "Mysteries of the world" ,
the park is located in Interlaken, Switzerland and if all goes well it will be opened in April of 2002"

By reading his books one would clearly see that Von Daniken mostly wouldn't know what he was talking about, misinterpreting archaeology data right and left, let's not talk about genetics and such. His ideas have potential for drama but no science backing them up at all. To all Animé fans out there, the best use I've seen of Von Daniken's ideas are in Gainax' Nadia of the Misterious Seas (Fushigi No Umi No Nadia) :-)

Although one cannot disregard the possibility of intelligent ET life, the practicalities of space travel suggest that we should, say, act as if there wasn't any near us to talk to, visit, or wish they would save us :-D , although I am all for SETI and other attempts at discovering if they are or have been there, just for knowledge's sake.

(Wasn't Asimov the one who wrote about how having this unusual, disproportioned uglily big satellite orbiting us could have been decisive for life prospering here because of tidal waves and such? )