R. Moor watched BSG religiously as a boy

[Rowan]

I found this interesting bit of news on the Sci fi site...I was under the impression he had hardly watched any of the original am I missing something, or has the information on this been reimagined as well LOL!

I'm not sure if it's ok to post the link here or not someone let me know and I will
here are a few excerpts:

When executive producerDavid Eickaccepted the challenge of conceptualizing Battlestar Galactica for SCI FI's new miniseries, he knew exactly what he did not want to do:He did not want to remake the original series,which earned a cult following during its single season on ABC in 1978-79.And he did not want to make a sequel that simply picked up where the short-lived series had left off.

Eick had far more ambitious plans. Not only didhe want to reimagine Battlestar Galacticafor a new audience in a new century,he wanted to reinvent the epic space operaand breathe new life into a genre that has become, at times, formulaic and predictable.

From the beginning, Eick knew that if he were going to succeed in his goal of reinventing Battlestar Galactica, he would need a collaborator who knew the genre inside out. He found one in writer and executive producerRonald D. Moore.As a boy, Moore watched the original Battlestar Galactica series religiously. As an adult, he worked for ten years on the Star Trek franchises Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. He knew the rules of space opera very well and he also knew he wanted to break them.

Moore found inspiration in recent history. "One of the things that struck me when I went back and looked at the original pilot for Battlestar Galactica was how dark it was," said Moore. "I mean, it begins with the destruction of an entire society. And I thought, you know, there are depths that we could really plumb with that. And remember, I was looking at this in a post-9/11 world, a world that had been at peace and that was going along quite well. And then suddenly, one morning I woke up and the WorldTradeCenter had collapsed and people I'd never heard of hated me and hated everything about my society and wanted to destroy it. Life stops for a moment.

[Darth Marley]

No doubt, some will bring up that RDM only watched SOSW in preparing the mini.
I watched BSG as a child, and saw precious few reruns before the mini came out.
I think RDM was in a similar position. My memory of many of the eps was not so good until I rewatched some reruns.
Of course, for those that think the mini is a butchery of the original, it will not matter, as for them no true fan would ever do such a thing.

[Rowan]

Here is another tidbit

Will we get to see the Battlestar Pegasus and Commander Cain? Do you plan on touching on the story of the Pegasus in future episodes?

Ron Moore is currently conducting a thorough review of all the stories from the original Battlestar Galactica canon, and there are several storylines and episodic premises I know he is already excited about pursuing. No details yet, however.

[Rowan]

Moore was born in 1964 like me so he would have been 14 yrs old when BSG first aired old enough to remember...

[thomas7g]

i'm pretty sure you guys got ir right. He watched the show religiously 25 years ago. He was one of the 65 million. And he loved the show. But then like most of the fans he moved one and basically hasn't seen any of the reruns since. And he pretty much forgot everything about it.

When he saw BG again, I'm sure he just grabbed the dvd pilot movie that was comercially the only version available.. And mostly to see what he could take from the show. Not to bring the show back. But to grab what he could out of the show to add to HIS new show.


There is nothing immoral about that. Nothing illegal. No laws were broken.

But of course, that act was extremely cruel to the fans. It was in bad taste. And I seriously doubt NBC would ever have allowed that many people to be hurt so bad. Its terrible PR.

Add to that Moore and Eick still don't recognize what made the old show great.

But that said... I don't thing Moore was ever being dishonest about what he was doing. Just callous and uncarring of the people he was hurting.

[CommanderTaggart]

Darth Marley wrote:

Of course, for those that think the mini is a butchery of the original, it will not matter, as for them no true fan would ever do such a thing.

Couldn't have said it better myself. PseduoGalactica is not ambitious, with it's Wal-Mart costumes, nor did it re-invent the genre, unless reinventing the genre means ripping off Firefly.

I don't think Moore watched the show at all. That is just some publicity hoo-ha that some PR flack came up with to throw a bone to the fans of the original series. If he was a fan of the original series then he whould have taken the opportunity to bring it back properly. If he was required to write a re-imagining at the behest of others, as a fan, he should have turned down the job on principle. If he is a fan of the original series, then he would not have gone out of his way to removed everything that made the classic show so special.

[Dawg]

There are those, Bijou, who would disagree with that statement. They'd say he had captured the essence of TOS BSG.

Of course, I'm not one of them.

These are the people who see the biblical story of Exodus in both and say "gee, they're the same story", missing entirely the subleties that were the result of the multitude of influences they brought into TOS. The positive rolemodels, the positive message of hope in the face of impossible odds, the strong families.....

Old argument.

But I'm with you.

I am
Dawg

[peter noble]

I think the main point of this discussion should be that as a writer remaking Battlestar Galactica, he didn't research the subject thoroughly. Sci-Fi/Universal could have sent tapes if he'd asked for them, it would have been no hardship on their part. But in the end he only watched the movie version of Saga.

That in my book is poor research, but hey – he was always going to do what he wanted to do anyway, so that's by the by.

Peter

[bsg1fan1975]

Originally Posted by Bijou88

I don't think Moore watched the show at all. That is just some publicity hoo-ha that some PR flack came up with to throw a bone to the fans of the original series. If he was a fan of the original series then he whould have taken the opportunity to bring it back properly. If he was required to write a re-imagining at the behest of others, as a fan, he should have turned down the job on principle. If he is a fan of the original series, then he would not have gone out of his way to removed everything that made the classic show so special.

Thank you for echoing my thoughts Bijou! We all know that the mini team is nothing but a bunch of hacks who think that taking a well loved and missed show and changing it is going to bring the fans back en masse! Wrong! They just keep alienating the fans and throw more tylium on the fire when something else comes out about the new "rip-off", uh I mean venture.

[Rowan]

The reason I posted this article/started this thread is because for the past 6 month I have read over and over statements from many people that indicated to me that Moore had never watched TOS only the Saga, and therefore was completely ignorant of the series.
Statements like the following:

RDM claimed that he only watched the original pilot episode before he wrote the pilot, so he wouldn't have seen the Sheba character, though I suppose he could have had some memory of her from the original series (IF he watched it at all when it came out, which I doubt).

and

Ron Moore's towering ignorance of the original series is something he long since fessed up to before the miniseries aired and it totally lacks credibility that he had any recollection of Sheba at all given that all he watched was the hacked down pilot episode before he put his thoughts to paper.

and

He said which episodes he had watched in the last 25 years. The sum total was one and a half episodes and that includes a badly cut down version of the pilot film. That's the information one should go on before making assumptions.

and

it presumes a knowledge of the original series that Moore simply put, does not possess.

Then I go to the Sfi Fi page and discover statements like

As a boy, Moore watched the original Battlestar Galactica series religiously.

and

Ron Moore is currently conducting a thorough review of all the stories from the original Battlestar Galactica canon, and there are several storylines and episodic premises I know he is already excited about pursuing

I was left wondering

1) why is it that people believe that RDM could not have seen any of the original (and I'm not talking about reasons like because he bastardized it I'm referring to what have they read or heard that led them to believe that he has not seen any of the original) is this a case of us making assumptions?

2) Is this an accurate statement from Sci Fi…. If so then does this not change how we critique each other when people like Antelope and others make suggestions that perhaps RDM does know the original series?

Also what struck me was why is it all of our criticism for this reimagination is directed towards RDM? How come I've never heard word one about Executive Producer David Eick and his involvement in the reimagining?

According to this quote he had everything to do with the direction the reimagining took, so why do I never hear about him? RDM by comparison would simply have been following the direction given by Mr. Eick who would have been following the direction of who? Bonnie Hammer and her gang?

When executive producer David accepted the challenge of conceptualizing Battlestar Galactica for SCI FI's new miniseries, he knew exactly what he did not want to do: He did not want to remake the original series, which earned a cult following during its single season on ABC in 1978-79.And he did not want to make a sequel that simply picked up where the short-lived series had left off.

Eick had far more ambitious plans. Not only did he want to reimagine Battlestar Galactica for a new audience in a new century, he wanted to reinvent the epic space opera and breathe new life into a genre that has become, at times, formulaic and predictable.

While it is true that there are other guilty parties involved with the mini, (David Eick, Bonnie Hammer et al) the reason why many fans direct their frustration on Moore is becaues he wrote the wretched thing.

[Eric Paddon]

Some of those quotes you cite which come from me, refer to the fact that *since 1979* he has only watched 1 1/2 episodes, which was what he admitted to. The fact that he watched them at the time they first aired is utterly irrelevant since that means that he made no effort to keep his mind fresh on just what did happen on Galactica. I watched every episode when they first aired on ABC, but if that had been the only time in 25 years since that I had seen Galactica, I wouldn't have any competence to fairly judge Galactica either and what the characters and situations were about.

Bottom line, Antelope is dead wrong to suggest Moore knows the series because Moore does not and can not based on watching only 1 1/2 episodes since 1979 by the time he started making wholesale value jugments on what was and what was not good about the series. And that comes by taking Moore's *own* comments on what he has watched since the ABC airings into account.

[BST]

Rowan,

Originally Posted by Rowan

The reason I posted this article/started this thread is because for the past 6 month I have read over and over statements from many people that indicated to me that Moore had never watched TOS only the Saga, and therefore was completely ignorant of the series.

The answer is that Moore stated this, himself, during an interview with Sandy, last year (2003). His statement was in reply to a question Sandy asked about the preparation for the show. Sandy indicated that Tom DeSanto had watched the entire series and was well-versed in many of the "little things" missing from the Mini. Moore's response indicated that he "was only doing a re-make of Saga and did not feel a need to familiarize himself with the ENTIRE story, only Saga." (That's not a quote - a paraphrase, from memory). The interview transcript was available at Cylon Alliance until, I believe, the recent server migration.

Now, that's not meant to infer that Moore did not watch Battlestar when it originally aired, just that he did not research the rest of the series when writing his story.

DAWG, PETER NOBLE, or COMMANDER TAGGART -- is a copy of the CA Interview with Ron Moore (May 2003 timeframe) still available? OR Does SANDY (or anyone else) possibly have a hard copy of it available?

Originally Posted by Rowan

Also what struck me was why is it all of our criticism for this reimagination is directed towards RDM? How come I've never heard word one about Executive Producer David Eick and his involvement in the reimagining?

Oh, fear not, Eick and Hammer were verbally crucified by us, during the time leading up to the Mini. Moore, Eick, and Hammer were, and to some extent still are, the so-called "Evil Troika". Moore, however, was the point man for the verbal onslaught. He was the one who "created" the show and the one who would receive the acclaim or criticism.

[Darth Marley]

http://www.disenchanted.com/dis/lookup.html?node=1846

When you believe something, you tend to prefer facts that confirm your belief, but ignore or rationalize anything that contradicts it. The smarter you are, the better you are at rationalizing whatever you want to believe.

I mentioned the "confirmation bias" in some argument at CA a few months back.
I am fascinated with the concept, and think it applies to all of our views on BSG fandom as well.

Unfortunately, sometimes defense of our rationalizations rises to the level of unpleasant invective. And we are most likely all guilty of this, it is part of the human experience.

[Rowan]

Hey Eric I didn't want to say who I was quoting didn't want to attract attention to anyone in particular not without their permission anyways. but your not the only one who has pointed this out.

I was one who watched the series religiously in fact I would say fanatically I lived and breathed it as only a teenage girl who is head over heals can.(nothing against guys but you know teenage girls can be out there) (Although because I was a naughty teenager my mother did stop me from seeing a couple of episodes as punishment, it was the only thing that would have worked at the time LOL!) since then I had only seen the pilot episode a couple of times and about 5 years ago my sister sent me 4 episodes (Fire in Space, The Young Lords, The Lost Warrior and Murder on the Rising Star) which I watched a once or twice other than that until last month I had not seen anything else in 25 years. Last month I got the opportunity to watch the entire series from beginning to end I was stunned at how much I did remember from dialogue to gestures I certainly remembered the feelings I had for each of the characters and the story lines. The only aspect I saw with a fresh eye really was Boxey because as a kid I didn't view him with a motherly feeling the way I do now and the religious aspect because I wasn't brought up religiously so those elements did not stand out for me at the time, (not that I'm religious now but more aware of it than I was then).

If RDM watched it religiously and as I mentioned before he was the same age as me when I watched why could it not be possible as is the case with me that he indeed remembers a lot of it.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by BST

Rowan,
The answer is that Moore stated this, himself, during an interview with Sandy, last year (2003).

Thanks BST
That's what I thought that's why I'm puzzled about this statement now appearing on Sci Fi
It leaves me wondering what to believe.

LOL it's all those papers I had to write in the last 10 years for college "use quotes to substantiate your claims" or "look at your source what is its bias" etc. ACKSchool haunts me even when I'm trying to have fun!

[BST]

Originally Posted by Rowan

That's what I thought that's why I'm puzzled about this statement now appearing on Sci Fi

Take anything quoted on, or by, Sci-Fi, with a healthy dose of "spin".

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by BST

Take anything quoted on, or by, Sci-Fi, with a healthy dose of "spin".

Well I'm trying to politely hint at that idea only I was thinking stronger language but I didn't want to come right out and make accusations ...but "spin" is a good word it's polite thanks BST!

[Eric Paddon]

"If RDM watched it religiously and as I mentioned before he was the same age as me when I watched why could it not be possible as is the case with me that he indeed remembers a lot of it."

Because that never works when you want to write something based on Galactica, or profess to be in a knowledgable position to judge every aspect of the series and what it was about before you start writing. The only reason why I feel comfortable writing fanfic is because I know every part of each episode inside out and can spot a potential continuity lapse in an instant. And that comes only as a result of rewatching these episodes a number of times in the 25 years since they first aired.

Never mind Moore though, let's look at Richard Hatch, who in his own novels proved that even those who had the best vantage point can't remember things accurately on sheer memory alone, since his novels are chock full of more inconsistencies and errors when all episodes in TOS are taken into account. If Richard couldn't remember Rigel's gender or Omega's age, small wonder I don't take seriously the idea that Ron Moore could not be qualified to remember Galactica accurately without reacquainting himself with all episodes before he started to write and form his judgments.

[Dawg]

Eric - do you remember a discussion in another thread about how these books are written? It's been awhile.

The co-author assigned by the publisher is more than likely the culprit in many of the errors you ascribe to Richard; he has no control over who is assigned (and, frankly, I like Christopher Golden's work - I think he may be the best of the lot). The editing has been spotty at best over the years as well.

Richard is, I believe, responsible for plot lines regarding the Kobolian mental abilities, the romance with Cassie, etc.

There are people more informed of what has gone on as far as the creation of the books than I am, for certain. However, I do know Richard isn't responsible for all the errors that appear in the books.

I am
Dawg

[Eric Paddon]

But like Moore, Richard has not rewatched many of these episodes over the years, and his commentary with Dirk and Herb confirmed that the cut theatrical version of "Saga" is the one he's far more familiar with since all the scenes that were part of the TV version came as a total surprise to him for all intents and purposes.

The Cassie romance, Kobollian bloodline stuff etc. stem from the same inability to stop and ask if this jibes with what was established. The Rigel and Omega gaffes were ultimately small compared to those, which also included forgetting all the details of Iblis's appearance in WOTG, along with Baltar's imprisonment and being released at the end of HOG.

Being a writer of stories myself, I generally take a less charitable view of stories that don't take the time to show a meticulous eye for these kind of things. I've seen too many other people write stories with this concern for tight continuity and smooth flow from the series to make me not be charitable toward the kind of standards I see in Hatch's books whether the fault is ultimately more his or the ghostwriter.

Here is an interesting quote I found in a review for the live action Thunderbirds movie:

Frakes no doubt loves the original, just as the directors of The Avengers, Lost in Space and The Saint loved the originals they rehashed so ineptly. But loving also involves letting go. Those programmes can be seen on terrestrial and cable TV. They're available on DVD. They don't need reviving and updating.

While I don't hold to the notion that Battlestar Galactica did not need to be revived, I think Moore's work places him with the same group of directors listed above. If he truely loved Battlestar Galactica he should have let it go rather than bringing it back in so shoddy a manner.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by thomas7g

i'm pretty sure you guys got ir right. He watched the show religiously 25 years ago. He was one of the 65 million. And he loved the show. But then like most of the fans he moved one and basically hasn't seen any of the reruns since. And he pretty much forgot everything about it.

When he saw BG again, I'm sure he just grabbed the dvd pilot movie that was comercially the only version available.. And mostly to see what he could take from the show. Not to bring the show back. But to grab what he could out of the show to add to HIS new show.


There is nothing immoral about that. Nothing illegal. No laws were broken.

But of course, that act was extremely cruel to the fans. It was in bad taste. And I seriously doubt NBC would ever have allowed that many people to be hurt so bad. Its terrible PR.

Add to that Moore and Eick still don't recognize what made the old show great.

But that said... I don't thing Moore was ever being dishonest about what he was doing. Just callous and uncarring of the people he was hurting.

Either way Thomas he did little to repair the bridges he burned in the
way he treated the fans.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

But like Moore, Richard has not rewatched many of these episodes over the years, and his commentary with Dirk and Herb confirmed that the cut theatrical version of "Saga" is the one he's far more familiar with since all the scenes that were part of the TV version came as a total surprise to him for all intents and purposes.

The Cassie romance, Kobollian bloodline stuff etc. stem from the same inability to stop and ask if this jibes with what was established. The Rigel and Omega gaffes were ultimately small compared to those, which also included forgetting all the details of Iblis's appearance in WOTG, along with Baltar's imprisonment and being released at the end of HOG.

Being a writer of stories myself, I generally take a less charitable view of stories that don't take the time to show a meticulous eye for these kind of things. I've seen too many other people write stories with this concern for tight continuity and smooth flow from the series to make me not be charitable toward the kind of standards I see in Hatch's books whether the fault is ultimately more his or the ghostwriter.

While I happen to like the RH books on BSG .........I think you made some
very good points. At least though in his book after PARADIS he makes a
good attempt to go BACK to the ORiginal BSG line. although I think he
should have made more of a attempt ot reestablish the father son
relation ship of Apollo and troy

[justjackrandom]

I have far more issues with Richard’s handling of the “continuation” than in RDM’s rehash. Moore’s is a completely different work…apples to oranges to TOS. Richard’s works are supposed to be a continuation of the original storyline. And as the only officially licensed works on BSG, they are supposed to be “official” (like the Timothy Zahn novels are in the Star War’s milieu).

I can’t accept that however, because of what I feels is the ineptness of their continuity and characterizations.

My 2p

JJR

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by justjackrandom

I have far more issues with Richard’s handling of the “continuation” than in RDM’s rehash. Moore’s is a completely different work…apples to oranges to TOS. Richard’s works are supposed to be a continuation of the original storyline. And as the only officially licensed works on BSG, they are supposed to be “official” (like the Timothy Zahn novels are in the Star War’s milieu).

I can’t accept that however, because of what I feels is the ineptness of their continuity and characterizations.

My 2p

JJR

I respect your opinion even though I do disagree with it. While Hatch
made some changes to the novels .............he is attempting in the new
novel that has just been reviewed on this site to set things right. For
one thing bringing the sheba/apollo arch back rather then the cassiopia/apollo
arch. There are other instances too .......but you'll have to read the
novel in order to find out what they are.

[oldwardaggit]

Originally Posted by Bijou88

Here is an interesting quote I found in a review for the live action Thunderbirds movie:

Frakes no doubt loves the original, just as the directors of The Avengers, Lost in Space and The Saint loved the originals they rehashed so ineptly. But loving also involves letting go. Those programmes can be seen on terrestrial and cable TV. They're available on DVD. They don't need reviving and updating.

While I don't hold to the notion that Battlestar Galactica did not need to be revived, I think Moore's work places him with the same group of directors listed above. If he truely loved Battlestar Galactica he should have let it go rather than bringing it back in so shoddy a manner.

If I had to make a judgement call after seeing those movies, I would say that they didn't love the original as much as they would lead us to believe but that's just my opinion and they may well love the original source even though I am yet to hear a director say that they can't stand the original source because that would be really bad PR. I can't make a judgement on Thunderbirds because I haven't seen it yet. I was excited about it until I heard that it was going to be aimed somewhat at being a spy kids knock off. I liked spy kids but that's not what thunderbirds was about. Others may like that direction though.


I totally agree that Moore is in that group but for different reasons.

I think Battlestar Galactica needed someone from a group like Peter Jackson, Sam Rami, Brian Singer and definitely Tom Desanto who is now prepping for a Transformers movie and he has stated that they wanted to get back to the core of sci fi and the fans. Many people in the sci fi community are saying it's about time.

Spider man, X-men and Lord of the rings all had some changes from the original source but they were still true to the original source for the most part. If those kinds of changes were applied to a Galactica continuation 25 years after The hand of God, A prequal or even a side story that still allows the original to exist, I and many others would be fine with that.

To me, the proof of being a fan is in the end product. It's in doing, not saying but I also recognize that it is up to each fan to make their own opinion so if anyone wants to recognize Moore's version as something done by a real fan, I respect that. I disagree with it but I respect it because we all have the right to our opinions.

Finally I will just say this, The fans of Battlestar Galactica have held on to it for 25 years and now should let it go if they really love it? I'm really sorry but that makes no sense to me. I respect that it makes sense to others but not to me.

I still think that common sense would dictate that if you love a show that much, you would want to add to it in some way while updating it for today. Both can be done at the same time.
OWD

[martok2112]

Mr. Moore did give a financial contribution and endorsement to the Colonial Fan Force. I highly doubt that that was a ploy or a maneuver of any kind. I think Mr. Moore recognizes that there are those fans who long for their version of Galactica, and that he wanted to help see that happen. (God knows I want to see an original continuation as well as the continuance of the new series.)

Many think that Mr. Moore did little to try and mend bridges between himself and the fans that many claim he's alienated. I would say his support and endorsement speak volumes. Perhaps to say: "If I cannot (or will not) make the Battlestar Galactica you wish to see, then perhaps I can contribute so that someone else can."

Just my two cubits worth. Time to go kill some Cylons (humanoid and mechanoid).

Respectfully to all. Long live both Battlestars Galactica,
Martok2112

[Eric Paddon]

"Mr. Moore did give a financial contribution and endorsement to the Colonial Fan Force. I highly doubt that that was a ploy or a maneuver of any kind."

It struck me as nothing but a ploy designed to negate any further bad publicity he might get. I don't believe for one minute he actually thinks a revival is going to happen, but since dissing this effort would only net him more bad PR he probably figured a small donation and a terse note of support would be better PR.

"I think Mr. Moore recognizes that there are those fans who long for their version of Galactica, and that he wanted to help see that happen."

If he recognized that and wanted to see it happen he wouldn't have made the "reimagining." Simple as that for those like me.