Dissed By Ron D. Moore?

dvo47p · February 26th, 2004, 06:52 PM

THINK OUTSDE THE BOX PEOPLE

DO YOU RECON RON HEARS SOME BATTLESTAR GALACTICA INFORMATION WE DO NOT?

I hope so.*

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http://www.cylon.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3924

BG2003: Do you have any plans, aside from maybe the cameos, on winning some of the old fans over?

RM: Nothing concrete. I mean it would be nice to win them over, but you know, I think it’s a case of they don’t want to be won over. They’re sort of set, certain members of that community, are just in their ways and they’re not interested in being won over. And so okay, whatever, I’m not interested in bringing them over [laughs]. And they’re just such a small number, I mean, I hate to say that, but the truth is, it’s a small number. The miniseries was watched by, oh god I don’t remember our ratings off the top of my head, but somewhere between 3 and 4 million viewers watched it. And the only way we have to sort of gauge the old fan reaction is by going to, you know, less than a half dozen web-sites, and the membership of those half dozen web-sites who are committed members of the boards, who weigh in on these issues, who are still gnashing their teeth, number in what, dozens? Hundreds at the most? We’re talking, a few hundred people? I mean, I went to Galacticon and there were like 4 to 6 hundred people in the event, you know, total! We’re not talking about tens of thousands of people, or hundreds of thousands of people who are upset and are like waging a campaign. We’re talking about a very small bunch, and I’m sure that their first reaction will be to freak out [laughs], that I say there’s not many of them. Well there aren’t many of them! And that doesn’t mean that they’re not important, or that their opinion doesn’t count, or that I’m dismissing them. It’s just sort of a reality check. It’s like how far are you willing to go to accommodate a small group of people who don’t want to be accommodated, who will not be happy no matter what you can do. There’s only so far that I’m gonna go.

BG2003: Is there anything that you’d like to say to fans of Galactica 2003, who’ve kind of experienced some this, you know at least, just speaking from the internet perspective, they’ve run into some hostilities there just trying to post and discuss the new show. Do you have some words of encouragement for them?

RM: Yeah, I think they shouldn’t take it too seriously, and that you know, it’s easy to get wrapped up in these kind of flame wars back and forth on the internet, like you’re really under attack, but it’s like just shrug it off, who cares what they think, you know? [laughs] Enjoy, if you like the new Galactica and you want to embrace it and you’re a fan of the old one, more power to ya, you know? Just go to the places where you’re gonna be welcomed, and talk to people that share your interest, and try not to worry about the other fans, cause they’re entitled to their opinion. And people that are committed and love the old show and hate what we are doing now are perfectly entitled to that point of view but that doesn’t mean that you have to communicate with them or have to participate on their boards. Go do your own thing.

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And that includes original star Richard Hatch, a fan favorite who tried to launch a "Battlestar" sequel. "Hatch looks great," Moore says. "It would be great to have Richard on."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/liv...or_battlestar/

OR VIA KINGFISH'S BB:
http://pp226.proboards25.com/index....6796722&start=0

*A BATTLESTAR by MGM? Really, how would his little Aces & Eights Production look next to an MGM movie, go figure?

JLHurley · February 27th, 2004, 03:40 AM

I don't consider his remarks as a "diss" but as usual he's the last person I'd ever want refereeing any sort of world peace project...

While it may be true that "hardcore" TOS BG fans (who are not interested in Moore's version) may not number in the tens of thousands at sites like Colonial Fleets, it is true that they represent a good number of viewers who don't like his series but never go to BG-related sites and post their dislike/disappointment. (I work with one such BG/SciFi fan. In fact, I don't think he will even be watching the upcoming series, whereas I definitely will.)

Titon · February 27th, 2004, 05:52 AM

Ron Ron Ron.

February 28th, 2004, 10:01 AM

You also need to take into account the interviewer, who has her own agenda.

It's easy to be led into giving your audience the answer they want to hear. I'm not saying that Moore was ignorant of what he was saying. It's just that in pretty much every interview by the Emmy award winning journalist, something about 'TOS fans being upset' is brought up. It's obvious that her intent is to create divisiveness. Although I am beginning to believe she is a real journalist, despite the odd fact she hides behind a online pseudonym. She uses the same sleezy tactics that most journalists use now a days to interject their own biases into the story to 'spice it up'. I wouldn't call her style fair and balanced.

BST · February 28th, 2004, 10:33 AM

Why is this even an issue?

You know, when it comes right down to it, who gives a damn what Ron Moore says or thinks? He's writing a new story for Galactica so, naturally, he's going to be protective of it. He's not a villain, not public enemy#1. By the same token, he's also not someone I'd enjoy talking BSG with. In my opinion, he just doesn't get it.

But, this hatred towards everything that the man says or does is just one more thing that we NEED TO GET OVER. Moore is just a man doing a job, nothing more, nothing less.

The only reason that he is even considering the olive branch to the original cast members is to silence the critics. He'd love to have us "on board" but, at the same time, he will not go "hat-in-hand" begging us. It's politics, that's all.

(I would love to see the ratings, though, for the weekly series. The only question is in which time slot will they schedule it and what will it's lead-in be. The show, right now, can not stand on its own, no matter what it's ratings were for the mini. It's going to need some help. It will be interesting, though, to see what transpires.)

February 28th, 2004, 11:21 AM

Ron Moore seems pretty respectful and is telling it like it is. He is writing for what he and SCIFI hopes will be a mass audience. He is looking at the internet and does realize how many Battlestar sites there are and how many people are on them. Colonial Fleets is probably one the biggest major site with a bit over 900 members of which less than 100 appear to be regularly active. Of the 4,000,000 mini viewers and 60,000,000 supposed TOS viewers it is impossible to figure out viewer opinion based on 100 hard core fans. The situation with fans is no differnt than politics. A small amount of people dedicate their lives to campaigns but they no way reflect the opinions of an average cross section of the population.

Ron Moore would like the old cast to reappear because he thinks it would be good for ratings. He also cares what the internet fans say because he can judge particular story line elements that bother people or pique interest and viewing. If we talk about something than people in general probably noticed it.

Moore doesn't seem to me to have an axe to grind. He doesn't sugar coat reality either.

BST · February 28th, 2004, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antelope526

Of the 4,000,000 mini viewers and 60,000,000 supposed TOS viewers it is impossible to figure out viewer opinion based on 100 hard core fans.

Let's be fair, now. The 4,000,000 viewer figure is not an accurate accounting of viewership. It was for the entire 4-hour block and on the first night, BG only played on the LAST 2 hours. The second night had the first 2 hours repeating Part I. As I recall, the Nielsen totals did not hit 4,000,000 but, somewhere in the 3's.

thomas7g · February 28th, 2004, 11:49 AM

I agree with BST that this really is a non issue to me. Ron Moore isn't a big fan of the old series. he says alot of condesending things. To me its no big deal. Its like what alot of us say against him.

As for this site, I don't think we are a real indicator of the BG1 fanbase. Most of the fans aren't big internet hounds like us. You can't find them online. We are a small subset of the fans. Most fans don't spend that much time onine. They are out taking the kids to the little league games or mowing the lawn.

That's why I stress coming here to have fun rather than to try to move the elephant.

February 28th, 2004, 11:54 AM

Well said thomas7g.

I do think however Ron Moore is well versed in TOS, the continuations stories, and BSG1980. I think you can tell from his interviews he is very knowledgeable on those subjects but plays coy and feigns ignorance when the subject of the other forms is spoken of in reference to his plans for plot lines. He is trying to keep future plot developement close to his vest.

Dawg · February 28th, 2004, 12:01 PM

I don't find Moore being particularly respectful, antelope, but he's certainly telling it how it is - "It's my way or the highway". It's the same tune he's sung since the script leaked over a year ago. He could not possibly care less what we are saying (and we should return the courtesy).

The time for "reaching out" to fans is long since past, and he knows it. At best, he's trying to boost the controversy (and get more press) by trying to get TOS actors to appear - and by doing so, validate his and Hammer's decisions. At worst....

He has no axe to grind, and, like BST, I'd love to sit down with him to talk about Star Trek and writing for money (something I'd give certain portions of my anatomy to do), but we would not discuss BSG. Ron Moore does not understand BSG as I do. But I'd still let him buy the beer.

As far as the interviewer is concerned - my suspicion is that she is no more a journalist than I am a maiden aunt.

Sci-Fi's going to do what Sci-Fi's going to do. Respect has nothing to do with it. Unfortunately.

I am
Dawg

Westy · February 28th, 2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antelope526

I do think however Ron Moore is well versed in TOS, the continuations stories, and BSG1980.

Ron Moore already stated that he only watched the pilot of TOS. It wasn't until very recently that he said he was preparing to review the rest of the TOS series. To say he is well versed in all of TOS is not true by his own words.

Muffit · February 28th, 2004, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas7g

As for this site, I don't think we are a real indicator of the BG1 fanbase. Most of the fans aren't big internet hounds like us. You can't find them online. We are a small subset of the fans. Most fans don't spend that much time onine. They are out taking the kids to the little league games or mowing the lawn.

Thomas, you are so right. To say that a few sparsely visited websites are any kind of indicator of fandom is myopic at best. I have several brothers and they truly loved BSG TOS too, one even spent $1500 for a VCR just to record it - but NONE of them care about visiting these websites or participating in the revival, despite my pleas. And these are folks with feelings much like me. The vast majority of people simply don't believe their voice has any impact today. And of those remaining, extremely few ever go the lengths we do (writing campaigns, etc). That is certainly NOT to say they don't care - they just don't care enough to try and make a difference. Probably because for the majority of truly important things in life, those in charge are continuously telling us, if not in words at least in action, we the many don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

peter noble · February 28th, 2004, 01:07 PM

I don't think the internet is any indicator of the level of support for the TOS or BSG'03/04.

Obviously a lot of people bought the DVD set, so many in fact that Universal listened to their complaints about the packaging and released the set in new packaging, I think there's three different versions of the packaging now and two different versions of the DVD set.

Universal also has an eye on releasing the DVD of the new series episodes, Lord knows what other merchandise they've got up their sleeeves.

It's also encouraging that companies are still buying liscences for TOS products, and indicator that there is a market outside of the internet for TOS products.

Regards,

Peter (went off on a tangent a bit there!)

Gemini1999 · February 28th, 2004, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BST

Let's be fair, now. The 4,000,000 viewer figure is not an accurate accounting of viewership. It was for the entire 4-hour block and on the first night, BG only played on the LAST 2 hours. The second night had the first 2 hours repeating Part I. As I recall, the Nielsen totals did not hit 4,000,000 but, somewhere in the 3's.

Pete -

I had a thought about the miniseries ratings spike for the 2nd day..... I know that some were in a hurry to see it and probably checked it out the first night in their haste. If you had a choice, would you rather watch something in 2 parts on 2 different nights, or would you rather see it all on the same day? My theory is that those that were really looking forward to it and just couldn't wait, watched it the first night and then again on the second. But, if even more folks decided to wait to hear the buzz on the premiere first, or wait and see it all in one night, that may be enough people to account for the rise in ratings the second night.

I don't know this for sure, but that was what I was thinking....

Bryan
________
LovelyWendie99

GalacticanCajun · February 29th, 2004, 09:18 AM

I waited to see all 4 hours on the second night. I didn;t even turn on SciFi the first night. I think my wife and I watched a tape I had made of Babylon5 the first night. I do not remember.

February 29th, 2004, 09:24 AM

A better indicator of the interest level for TOS would be the DVD sales.

Sci-Fi · February 29th, 2004, 09:35 AM

At Amazon.co.uk:
The Region 2 Boxed set is ranked #220: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...939336-1529212
The Region 2 Cylon Boxed set is ranked #455: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...939336-1529212
And The Mini (which is not released yet) is ranked #221 (update: now #124): http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...939336-1529212

Could be the mini had a lot of pre-order signups. Interesting ranking numbers to say the least.

The U.S. Amazon rakings are:
Cylon head packaging is #455: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...v=glance&s=dvd
New packaging is #4554: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...v=glance&s=dvd
And no ranking for the mini yet.

BST · February 29th, 2004, 09:55 AM

Sci-Fi,

Region 2 is Europe, correct?

If so, the TOS boxed set has been available for approximately 2 months, it was released on January 12, 2004.

I wasn't sure of the correlation that you were trying to draw from the sales rankings.

Sci-Fi · February 29th, 2004, 11:09 AM

AlphaAce mentioned dvd sales as an indicator of interest in TOS. I just posted what numbers Amazon has on its sites (U.S. and U.K.) for sales rankings. It's not an absolute nor does the numbers reflect the total sales from all sources, but gives an idea of sales at one site and may help better interpet the level of interest in a particular property or show.

Region 2 is Europe, Middle East & Japan (PAL) The Region 2 Mini DVD is due out Monday, March 1, 2004 according to the U.K. site. The U.S. Region 1 Mini DVD release date is still unknown at this point.

My post is just FYI and I found it interesting that the U.K. pre-sales of the mini ranking was close to the current U.K. TOS sales rankings. That would indicate that both versions have renewed/created similar interest in the marketplace and in the genre.

dvo47p · February 29th, 2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvo47p

THINK OUTSDE THE BOX PEOPLE: DO YOU RECON RON HEARS SOME BATTLESTAR GALACTICA INFORMATION WE DO NOT?
I hope so.*
*A BATTLESTAR by MGM? Really, how would his little Aces & Eights Production look next to an MGM movie, go figure?

"And I'd like to approach some of the actors from the old show to do some roles here. I still mean that. I don't have anything against the old show, and any elements I can pull from it that will work in this universe, I think will be a lot of fun."

And that includes original star Richard Hatch, a fan favorite who tried to launch a "Battlestar" sequel. "Hatch looks great," Moore says. "It would be great to have Richard on."

Why would Moore worry about Richard?

#1. Ron s thinking about remaking 'Take the Celestra' ok nobodies favorite, no big deal.

#2. Ron is thinking 'Living Legend' or a 'Pegasus' as part of the Galactica lite series, very big deal indeed, Tom DeSanto’s looking that way also..............

#3. Ron way back did not see any TOS cast members in his BG lite

Ok lets put on those THINKING CAPS shall we?

"Hatch looks great," Moore says. "It would be great to have Richard on."

Ron wants to get Hatch under contract to his mini version, why would he need this?

Say could this be a preemptive strike to prevent the MGM movie production from hiring Richard?

repcisg · February 29th, 2004, 07:25 PM

Dvo,

You may have a good point, if under contract to Universal for their version, the TOS stars would be precluded from an MGM production.

BST · February 29th, 2004, 07:30 PM

Well, Dvo...I see your point (and a damn good one at that). Most interesting.
Does Ron hear footsteps? Hmmm.

dvo47p · February 29th, 2004, 08:21 PM

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=16988

The new series could include a remake of the original series’ 1978 episode “Pegasus.”

Some, “if not all,” of the surviving ‘70s “Galactica” stars will be approached about guest roles in the new series.

This could be good news for ‘70s “Galactica” player Richard Hatch, who has long lobbied to launch a rival new “Galactica” TV series that would return him to the role of Apollo. Hatch’s recent resume includes an appearance in the 2000 direct-to-video thriller “The Ghost,” now available on amazon.com for $14.15. The actor’s most recent feature, the 2001 comedy “Big Shots,” does not yet appear to be available for purchase.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
The Great War of Magellan nothing new for sometime: http://imdb.com/title/tt0356658 has lost Jason Carter: http://imdb.com/name/nm0141682 .

Quote:

Originally Posted by BST

Well, Dvo...I see your point (and a damn good one at that). Most interesting.
Does Ron hear footsteps? Hmmm.

Ok maybe Richard Hatch is what 58 y/o and is looking over
his shoulder, also? Hell, who invited Ron D. Moore to the Galacticon? Think, he may incite Hatch, a on going part, a nice piece of change, screen credit, a USA contract, ya cannot eat dreams.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Quote:

Originally Posted by repcisg

Dvo, You may have a good point, if under contract to Universal for their version, the TOS stars would be precluded from an MGM production.

Yeah buddy but money talks bullsh*t walks. Where it engraved in stone that MGM is doing a Larson ‘Battlestar’ movie. Brian Singer is doing both The X-Men 3 & 4 simultaneously, plus DeSanto’s Transformers gig, Battlestar Galactica fanboy is not paying the production cost of a MGM movie, is he?

Rowan · February 29th, 2004, 09:42 PM

I can't believe Richard Hatch is 58 it just didn't occur to me how time has flown! that hit me like a ton of bricks! you mean when I was 14 I had a crush on a 33yr old man! yikes!

Count Iblis · February 29th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Hello/No surprise to read we have fans on both sides of the table regarding the "Re-invisioned" mini-series produced by Mr. Moore. I know this whole thing has gone around and round, so I really only have three points to make.

1. Any producer of "ANY" Re-make/Re-invisioned ideas needs to work hard (In My Humble Opinion) to trys and bridge old and new as much as possible, so as not to allienate the original fan base of the original production. I understand that there are TOS fans that did like the new show, but the statistics I have seen would indicate that it's running about 3 to 1 against the new production, from TOS fans.
As a Producer, your goal should be trying to Market to both camps if possible to insure a jump start with ratings/viewers. Did Mr. Moore do a good job trying to bridge old with new, or did he just ignore most of the established canon of TOS?

2. There is nothing wrong with a Producer making a stab at something new based on original concepts. We saw this with Star Trek which later became Star Trek "The Next Generation". The difference here, is that in this case, the Producer decided to use only the old name for recognition, while making drastic changes to established characters, fictional timelines, and basic concepts. Fans were expecting/hoping it was an actual re-make. If it had been called something else that would have better explanied that this was a "New" Galactica concept, it might have been not as hard for many TOS fans to swallow. In the case of Trek, it was a smart move to basically "Warn" fans of TOS that "The Next Generation" would have major changes, like new characters, new designs etc.

3. Beyond modernizing and updating for technical reasons were so many "Drastic" changes necessary to have a "Hit" series? I don't think anyone was expecting the "Chimp in the Daggot Suit" to return, or the "Hector and Vector" type storylines to sell in Todays TV Market, but most of the original concept ideas and Characters would have been just fine with a few corrections as aforementioned.

I'm going to watch the new show, but I'm still going to "Wish" that more consideration of "Trying to Bridge" ideas between new and old should have been a "Paramount" issue by the new Producer and his associates. If for no other reason, than to honor past work as "Professional Courtesy" toward other industry professionals involved with TOS.

Not trying to start a war here, I am hoping that everyone has respect for "ALL" viewpoints. Mine is just a small voice in a large crowd. Cheers!