An honest question from a Purist

Someone on another board brought up a good point and maybe fans of the Mini can answer this one. If you have Cylons that look like humans, why just have the sex-bots? Why wouldn't you make Cylons to imitate Heads of State or other key leaders to affect the humans policy making? Anyone?

[Oscar]

Because it would not be enough for them to look like the person, they would also have to think and act exactly like them and therefore have their entire knowlege, experience and personality as well.

But couldn't those things be "programmed"?

Or, instead of having them imitate existing leaders, have them original Cylons enter human politics being programmed to be good at politics, and rise the ranks on their own.

[Oscar]

It would take a huge amount of effort and resources to do a reasonable job of programming a robot to convincingly act like a person who is publicly known, and especially personally known. How can a robot retrieve and carry a real person's lifetime of memories?
Someone who runs for office after coming from obscurity would also have their past heavily examined.
All in all why bother with politicians etc who are under heavy scrutiny and may be exposed, when figures like 6 who operate in 'darkness' and obscurity can get the same result.

Very true in regards to a person's past being scrutinized, I hadn't thought of that.

How can a robot retrieve and carry a real person's lifetime of memories?

In Blade Runner Tyrell impanted the memories of his daughter into Sean Young's character Rachael in order that she herself would not even realize she was a replicant. It also made it very difficult for Blade Runners to detect that such a person was a replicant even with perfomring that test.


So I think that if the original person could be abducted, his brain downloaded, then uploaded in the new Cylon. If this could be done in a very short time in a similar manner that Tyrell did to his replicant, then there you have it.

Of course you'd also have to add an agenda, a sort of subconscious "prime directive"

[Oscar]

Of course in sci fi anything is possible, but at the end of the day why do anything as risky as creating a public figure, when low-profile spies like 6 can do the job by just interacting with one person who never even bothers to ask her name.

I don't know that the Cylons would consider it risky. So the humans find out it's a Cylon, what do they do kill it? Try to interogate it? you could also have it programmed to melt it's own brain if it were found out. To them I think they would view it as a neglible loss.

[Oenone]

Originally posted by jjrakman
Someone on another board brought up a good point and maybe fans of the Mini can answer this one. If you have Cylons that look like humans, why just have the sex-bots? Why wouldn't you make Cylons to imitate Heads of State or other key leaders to affect the humans policy making? Anyone?

They may well have done. The point was you don't know who these Cylon "Agents" were or how far they inflitrated. We know there are 12 but only know who 3 of these are.

Oh geeze, [IMG]alfred.gif[/IMG] I hadn't even thought of that.

[thomas7g]

btw, we know four of them.

Though its odd the cylons made the women so beautiful, but the male ones are kinda plain.

[Oenone]

Originally posted by conundrum7g
btw, we know four of them.

Though its odd the cylons made the women so beautiful, but the male ones are kinda plain.

Their built to do a very specific job. Doesn't that sound like the thinking of a machine to you?

If the fembot Agents were 12 pinters I doubt they'd work as well.

[Starbuck]

Originally posted by jjrakman
Oh geeze, [IMG]alfred.gif[/IMG] I hadn't even thought of that.

Hey! Isn't Alfred part of the Easter Egg Hunt?

[lordpenquin]

1. There could be things set up for the potential series
to address these issues and reveal hidden plots.

or

2. The miniseries just wasn't written that well.

I'm guessing #2, but it's always fun to speculate, hoping that
there is a logical answer to your question.

[beeker]

Originally posted by jjrakman
Someone on another board brought up a good point and maybe fans of the Mini can answer this one. If you have Cylons that look like humans, why just have the sex-bots? Why wouldn't you make Cylons to imitate Heads of State or other key leaders to affect the humans policy making? Anyone?

First of all they don't just have sex bots. Sex was clearly a primary tactic of Six, but that has to do with the personality of Baltar. The others did not use sex to further their objectives.

As for imitating key leaders, that would be fairly hard. Creating a cylon to look like a specific person is the trivial part. To pull off an impersonation they would need the right DNA to fool all the medical and security checks. the agent would also need to act like that person well enough to fool everyone (that includes not making any sudden out of character decisions regarding things like the defenses).

It would be easier (if a lot longer) to start the agents off from the start of a career, and have them work up to the highest levels. That is clearly what Boomer is designed to do. The Doral character was also in a career where, in time, he could become quite influential. These agents are a backup plan for the cylons in case of faliure of their primary plan.

Remember that the cylons don't need to make the decisions for the humans for them to win. All the need to do is at key moments cause hesistation, or counsel different action. Doral almost got all of the refguees killed under the guise of saving lives. True Roslin would have made a more effective agent (of course then there wouldn't be a show), but it's unlikely that even if the cylons replaced key leaders that they would have replaced her. Roslin was 43rd down the line. That is not exactly what I would call one of the "key" leaders.

[malachi42]

Since we only saw Six as a Cylon involved in a sexual relationship, it seems that all the other models and their choice of tactics have yet to be revealed. It seemed to be a set up for the series. It seems like a reasonable guess that the humanoid cylons and who they are/where they are will be an ongoing story line.

We have to remember that although this is Science Fiction, the writers are still going to put limitations on what Cylons could do. The actual tech is limited, the Cylon resources are limited, time is always a factor... plus, the more extravagant your plan the more likely somebody will find out. And once one person realises something is going on, they're going to blow the horn and the complete element of surprise is gone.

Of course, I don't leave this forum because I'm scared of the people "out there". All I know is, I love this show!

[callsignfalcon]

DOral ? the guy that got locked in the space station was a Cylon and he was in politics... and i still say President Rosilin's aid is a Cylon... just because of some of the comments... and that brief case.... and other reasons...

[SAR Pilot]

So that brings the count to 5. I agree after thinking about it, the aide did behave very odd for being human.

[callsignfalcon]

^_^ i'd par-TAY! .... itd end up being another sitch like the boomer one... we'd perhaps see two different ways of deadling from the 2 cylons pov... i think itd be interesting!

[Yminale]

Another issue is can the Human Cylons "age". It takes a good amount of time to build the infrastructure to gain high office. If Cylons don't age then that could be a major problem since people would notice someone who didn't get older (Unless the people in colonies are into plastic surgery . )

[callsignfalcon]

good point!

[ViperAce]

I'm not gonna try and pull a quote from above ... but

The "human" cylon models are fully programmed ... Remember the concept Six presented about sleeper agents? To function in that capacity, the cylon (Boomer) would have to have all the aspects of human behavior already. And thay've done a good job of illustrating elements of religion, love & many aspects of the "flaws" that make us human. In some twisted sense, that is what makes the new cylons intriguing, they have sympathy ... empathy ... perhaps greed (though Six didn't appear to upset about sharing Baltar), and I'm sure the future (if there is one) will force us to be empathetic to them...

[callsignfalcon]

I agree in the fact we'll most likeley (if there is a future) become empathetic to them... kinda like on Btvs, no one thought thatd the vampires would become as popular as they did, especially on SPikes part! (they origanally planned to kill him off.... perminantly in s2!) There is very little way of stopping fans for feeling ofr the bad guy unless you have a pure black and white view of the world.

I'd say straight out that they did not imitate heads of state because they want to destroy humanity in one fell swoop, not just undermine humanity. They found a weak link in Gaius Baltar and exploited that weakness. All the imitating heads of state takes too long and this was an easier solution. Anyway, who's to say Laura Roslin is not a Cylon?

[AJBryant]

What I can't understand:

Since it's established that the humanoid Cylons are indistinguishable from humans -- down to internal organs -- why did Six's spine *GLOW* when she was having sex with Baltar? (Bad writing? "Oh, look! She's not human!")

And since it's hinted at that Boomer is a Cylon, has her spine never glowed when she's with Tyrol? Why not?

It's a stupid SF moment, IMHO.

Tony

[Yminale]

Perhaps the humanoid Cylons incorporate nanotechnology. It could explain the similarities between humans and humanoid cyclons (and the glowing spine bit). As for Tyrol, Some guys just don't pay attention

[AJBryant]

Heck, if Boomer was hanging with me, I'd be paying attention.

Although I admit to being more attracted to Cally, Tyrol's assistant-tech person. MMmm. Cute.

Tony

I think one of the main plot lines in a future Battlestar series based on the mini will be who are the human-cylons and what is their goal or motivations.

As for the original question:
We are told by a cylon that there are 12 models. This may or may not be true. We do not know what was the extent of infiltration prior to the attack. They may have placed people high in the government. We just don't know.

As for who may be a cylon: I speculate that both Boxey and President Roslin during the mini gave reason for speculation in that area.

Boxey: Was that his father on the space station? If it was did his father have a relationship with a Cylon 6 character previously? If he did does this explain the awkward scene and his confusion? Was Boxey the unseen and unheard short in stature figure that Cylon 6 meets and speaks to in Caprica City (?) prior to the attack? Was Boxey's rescue by Boomer fortuitous or part of a plan? Is Boomer and Boxey a cylon team? If so who is the boss of who? Who would suspect a little kid? He is the perfect infiltrator! Wouldn't it be hilarious if Boxey was the model of the Imperious Leader?

President Roslin: Was that Colonial 1 in the landing bay of the cylon basestar in the scene prior to Laura Roslin's first scene on the Galactica? What is the real reason Laura Roslin wanted the computers on the Galactica networked? Was she rounding up the refugees so the cylons could more readily destroy them? Why did the cylon raider fail to stay around to ensure Colonial 1 was destroyed (Same question on Boomer's ship)? Why did she really stop Adama's war against the cylons? Why did she ask if the Earth really existed?

Did the Galactica escape or is it being herded?

Since it's established that the humanoid Cylons are indistinguishable from humans -- down to internal organs -- why did Six's spine *GLOW* when she was having sex with Baltar? (Bad writing? "Oh, look! She's not human!")

And since it's hinted at that Boomer is a Cylon, has her spine never glowed when she's with Tyrol? Why not?

You know I could come up with an explanation for that. But it might be a slam on Tyrol's prowess. [img]alfred.gif[/img]

I don't think the spine thing makes sense when you watch the rest of the mini. If you assume it was for the viewers benefit and not real it could be explained as a trick of light on your eye. For example an unseen red light in the foreground reflecting off her spine as she moved. I know this is weak but the whole spine is lit scenario at the moment is weak. You could also go with the some human-cylons are more human than others. Maybe the human-cylons are humans but in some cases they implant certain technology based on the needs of the mission. If this is the case the red spine may have been unique to that Cylon 6 on that mission. All I know is everyone watching will be checking out Boomer's spine if Tyrol gets a shot with her in a series. I don't even want to imagine what would happen if it turned out that the only way to tell them apart was from the red spine during sex and the colonials figured this out. It would add new meaning to being an "internal affairs" investigator.