Living Legend - Midway in space

[SpyOne]

I have often heard "Living Legend" called Patton in space, and I certainly agree that Cain comes off as a Patton-esque leader (more McArthurish, perhaps).
But as I rewatched this gem a while ago, what really struck me was how Baltar's indeciseiveness is what saved the day for Galactica (and what Cain was counting on) He keeps redirecting the fighters (attack the Galactica, no defend Gamorray, no defend me), which ultimately only results in their never getting anywhere or doing anything, which stuck me as parallel to the Japanese at Midway, who got caught with their decks crowded because they kept rearming for the latest target instead of launching the planes that they had. (I mean, I understand an enemy carrier is a tasty target, but if you have an important land target and the planes on your decks are armed with anti-land weapons, just launch them, then recover the "first wave" that's on its way back and send them after that carrier.)

Additionally, at Midway the US won in large part because we had more forces there than the Japanese believed we possably could (the Yorktown had been so badly damaged at Coral Sea that it should have been in drydock for weeks).

During the battle itself, damage repair crews on the Yorktown accomplished some amazing repairs, such that 2 different Japanese attack waves left it in a condition that they reported as "sinking". So the Japanese believed they had sunk both our carriers when in fact we had three AND they had "sunk" the same one twice. (Yorktown was actually sunk by a Japanese sub while being towed back to Pearl Harbor after the battle.)

This seems to me to be very similar to Cain coming "out of nowhere" with a ship that was already destroyed and turning the tide of battle by catching the Cylons by surprise.

Anyone else have thoughts to share?

[gmd3d]

I have often heard "Living Legend" called Patton in space, and I certainly agree that Cain comes off as a Patton-esque leader (more McArthurish, perhaps).

That sound about right to me.

[justjackrandom]

Originally Posted by SpyOne

I have often heard "Living Legend" called Patton in space, and I certainly agree that Cain comes off as a Patton-esque leader (more McArthurish, perhaps).

I have always considered the character of Cain to be more a cross between Macarthur and Britain’s Bernard Montgomery.

Originally Posted by SpyOne

which stuck me as parallel to the Japanese at Midway, who got caught with their decks crowded because they kept rearming for the latest target instead of launching the planes that they had.

The writers were asked to do a “Patton in Space”. I wouldn’t be surprised if they went out and watched “Patton”, “Midway”, “ A Bridge Too Far” and “Macarthur”, all of which had been released in the previous ten years (1970, 1976, 1977, 1977).

-- JJR

[Senmut]

The similarities to Midway are obvious, and Cain's bull-in-a-China-shop behavior certainly fits in with the character of Admiral "Bull" Halsey, whom the Japanese expected to face. But, he is also like Patton. He wears pistols all the time, has egg-salad all over his uniform, a swagger stick, an unshakeable belief in his own rightness at all times, and he cusses every sentence.
There are, also, parrallels to the Battle of the Bulge as well. Patton pulled his troops out of one engagement, marched them a hundred miles through horrible weather, then threw them back into combat so fast and hard, the Germans never saw it coming. Much like Cain pulling out of Gamoray, and then charging the Cylons head on.
Yep. Damn good ep.

[gmd3d]

Senmut: Thats the very man I was think of yesterday Halsey ,


The man

[kingfish]

It is Nagumo's indesisiveness at Midway that leads to the ultimate destruction of four Japanese flattops. If you watch the movie Midway the point is demonstrated when the Japanese shift from bombs, to torpedoes, and back to bombs again. This gave the American's the time they needed. Two squadrons of Dauntless Divebombers would catch the Japanese in the midst of rearming and that was all she wrote. However this victory came at great cost. Many pilots were killed. The Torpedo squadrons were decimated to the point that one survivor Ens George Gay would be picked up nearby the Japanese destruction. He had the best seat in the house.

[gmd3d]

Intresting stuff . If I had a commander I most abmired in ww2 its Halsey, but the all the commander I know of in that war had a difficult time with most of the Pacific fleet #destroyed In Pearl Harbor .
James Cagney Played him in a semi-documentary dramitization that I enjoyed called The Gallant Hours set around the battle of Guadalcanal covering 5 weeks.

There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet.

[kingfish]

Robert Mitchum plays Halsey in Midway. Halsey was in the hospital for a skin disease, ie poison ivy. Halsey was known as a gambler. His replacement Admiral Ray Spruance was a methodical man played by Glen Ford in Midway. The Japanese based their battle plan on Halsey being in command.

[gmd3d]

Spruance: they named a class of battleship after him????

[SpyOne]

Originally Posted by kingfish

Robert Mitchum plays Halsey in Midway. Halsey was in the hospital for a skin disease, ie poison ivy. Halsey was known as a gambler. His replacement Admiral Ray Spruance was a methodical man played by Glen Ford in Midway. The Japanese based their battle plan on Halsey being in command.

Shingles, IIRC, which isn't really a skin disease even if it looks like one, and what it mostly is is painful.
It is a disease found in the elderly (I believe people 60+), and only in people who survived chicken pox as a child. For some reason, the virus remains dormant in their systems for decades, then under stress it can (and will) attack all the nerve ending on one side of the body.
My Dad says the feeling is remarkably similar to being on fire, and having anything at all in contact with your skin causes excrutiating pain. He had to remove one bow from his glasses, for instance, because having the bow touch his ear was too painful.

The movie doesn't reflect this very well, as I guess they regarded the exact nature of the symptoms as a personal matter. Next time you're watching, remember that Mitchum's character is in extreme pain, and that if he were to wear a uniform they'd have to give him so much morphene he probably couldn't breathe.

As for Spruance, I believe it's a class of Cruiser, but that would be the guy.

[Trotsky]

Midway was a helluva victory, totally unexpected. However, another appropiate battle is the Falklands, where an outnumbered and outgunned British force beat the Argies, who were not only numerically superior but also possessed better technology. But the British still won. Very BSG-ish I think.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by SpyOne

As for Spruance, I believe it's a class of Cruiser, but that would be the guy.

Thanks SpyOne . I like my details

[Senmut]

Originally Posted by Taranis

Spruance: they named a class of battleship after him????

Destroyers. We, sadly, don't build battleships anymore.

[Lara]

Originally Posted by SpyOne

Shingles,
It is a disease found in the elderly (I believe people 60+), and only in people who survived chicken pox as a child.

Shingles is horrid.
You don't have to be old for shingles to happen. My dad had it when he was in his late 20's. And the original chicken pox can be almost sub clinical, so it can come out of the blue. In the elderly, shingles can kill, and if you have it in the face, can blind you.

Originally Posted by SpyOne

As for Spruance, I believe it's a class of Cruiser, but that would be the guy.

We have a whole suburb named after the battle of Midway, including a Spruance Rd!!

More trivia in your life!!

Cheers,
Lara

[Damocles]

Halsey!

http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_who_is_guarding_the_san_bernardino_strait.htm

http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/cobra.htm

http://historynet.com/wwii/blnavalbattleofguadalcanal/index.html

Halsey killed a lot of sailors and sank a lot of ships because he was incompetent.

Comparing Commander Cain to Patton is apt. Comparing Cain to Montgomery is an insult. Market Garden by itself or Operation Goodwood proved that Montgomery was an overrated mediocrity, inferior to Crerar, or to Horrocks as a tactician and to Slim and Alexander as a strategist.

His reputation rests soley on El Alemein which was won by stubborn British infantry and superior logistics-nothing that that WW I artillery happy hack planned or did. Monty's failure at Caen still enrages people who study it closely.(Falaise Pocket?)

[TopGun]

Battleships became obsolete after WWII

[Damocles]

Funny.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr/Politics/History.htm