I am *very* dissapointed.
 

Hi, all!

I am reposting a segment from a recent Moore interview at G2003 which, I am sure, has been making the rounds. I wish to express my severe dissapointment- not in the fact that Moore has his own opinions and views, but in the fact that it seems impossible for anyone from the new series' representation to be capable of any sort of grace or manners in communication.

Speaking as a coordinator of Galacticon, I deeply resent this remark. It implies a total lack of courtesy, and a complete disrespect for the enormous amount of work put out by those of us who did the show, Michael and Richard included. It was *not* a popular decision to invite him, and Richard took a great deal fo heat for it. It was decided, however, that it was up to us to be mature, to give everyone a chance to express their views and to speak for themselves, and to make it a convention which would welcome *all* fans.

I am highly dissapointed in Mr. Moore. It is extremely unprofessional to accept an invitation to an event as a guest, and to then speak in such a condescending manner after the fact. I, for one, would never invite him to speak his mind again.

If he truly saw Galacticon as nothing more thatn a few hundred implacable fans waging a war campaign, then he completely missed the point, and inviting him was a serious mistake, one which I, for one, now regret.

I sincerely hope you do beter in the future, Mr. Moore, at handling your own fan base, or you will alienate them. Among the concepts of humanity you wish to explore in the production of this series, I suggest you add courtesy.

WARNING: May contain comments that may be viewed as hositle. Please read entire post before passing judgement.

I guess we all have our own ways of looking at things and the way I see it, he was talking about those who "hated" his vision long before it even when on the air and were not even open minded to even watch the mini.

I believe this group is very small in number but they were the most distructive and loudest voice in TOS group. You said yourself the invitation to RM was "not" popular. Clearly an indication that minds were made up, 5 months before the min even aired. This in no way justify's the small group of mini fan who have taken it upon themselve to engage in a fanwar during this time.

Yes, he should have expect negative feedback from TOS fans but I am sure it went beyond that (personal threats and the like). In reading the interview transcript (and if accurate), it sounds to me, he was uncomformable with the issue (nervous laugh?).

One thing I have noticed about writers...they are good at what they do, but lousy at doing interviews. Maybe they should be given the questions in advance, and have them write their answers. But is that being honest or just Public Relation?

Did RM provide a poor choice of words? Yes. His comment are not helping those fans of the new mini as we try to bridge a friendly relationship with those of TOS series. He should have known better, having come from the world of Star Trek and its following of fan conventions over the years.

I now ask you this...how was he recieved at the convention? How was his behavior? I did not attend but I heard it was favorable. If you and the fans had a great experience with wonderful memories, isn't that what matters? Certainly his remarks made many months later should not change that.

P.S. Having met with people who work at putting a Star Trek convention in my town, I have great appreciation for their dedication for puting it together. They are truly fans. I know you have made many wonderful friends and memories over the years. Your hard work help people find a place to have fun with others who share the same interest. Keep up the good work. It means a lot.

nccdee

nccdee,

Nothing wrong with your remarks but, there is a lot of history that you may or may not be aware of. We did not just wake up one morning hating Ron Moore. In fact, we don't hate him at all, it's just the direction that he took BSG that we don't care for.


I'm enclosing a copy of a letter, by Ron Moore, posted in the 'old' SciFi forum (now the "BG-Archives" section which was closed April, 2003). The letter, written before filming even began, shows, in certain areas, as much 'arrogance' as the above post that Michele shared with us. To me, it doesn't seem like he was reaching out at all. He was saying "my way or the highway". (And no, he really didn't understand what we were asking for, at all. He still doesn't.)


BST

BST, thank you for posting the letter. I have never see nor heard of it before. I only became aware of RM project last July. It was soon after that I had heard about the other projects (through cylon.org).

I would not say I was a huge fan of TOS but it was one of the few program that stuck with me from my childhood (along with Buck Rogers). I am not a believer that everything is set in stone. Simply put, they only thing Hollywood can asked of me is to watch their program or pay money to see their movies. Its my choice. Beyond that its their "business".

You proved to me that RM is an honest man, who right from the beginning told everyone what he plan to do. This was going to be a new ride and he asked if we wanted to come along. Once again, our choice. I did not see anything in letter that was untrue or unkind. But I guess when an individual's dreams does not come true, there's hurt feeling and bias is created against another dream. And when you read "the popcorn is in a different aisle" it seems as personal attack. It unfortunate you would feel this way.

For many RM Galactica is a beginning. To others, an expansion to the BGS universe. But to all, never an end. There will also be enthusiastic fans with story to tell, pictures to draw, and convention to attend. We are all part of the same club. Galactica lives on.

nccdee

Good thread!

Thanks for the Moore letter, BST. That helps me understand where Moore was coming from. He makes an interesting point about BG fans now being adults and maybe wanting a more adult version with more flawed human characters. I still think that they've been made so flawed that they're unlikable. But he's going for Sci-fi reality rather than Epic nature like Larson was in the '70's. I get that now.

Epic appeals more to younger audiences and reality more to older, I guess. I write children's plays, so I like the Epic nature over the realistic, so that's my bias. Reality stuff simply bores me. Which is why I don't look forward to the new series, even though I liked the Mini very much. It was a new twist, a novelty. As a series, it bores me.

I've been a vocal critic of Moore's attitude in other threads here recently, and now I can, at least, see where he's coming from.

nccdee makes a good point, too, about writers maybe not expressing themselves well verbally. As a writer myself, I can identify with that.

Good stuff!

All I see over and over again is TOS only fans nit picking every word Moore says. He did what he thought best. If you don't like it hopefully someone will do another version more to your liking. Thus far I think we can all objectively say that the Moore version is better than the last battlestar incarnation done by Larson, BSG1980.

Moore repeatedly is met with hostility. You can read it here all the time. He has interviews where he reaches out to fans and the old cast and gets vitrial in return. He recently did a chat and those who hate him wonder why out of all the questions he can answer the ones he ignores often are a fancy way of saying, "Why do you suck?"

If you hate the guy don't try to chat with him. You aren't going to get an apology from him for doing what he thinks is best. When you say "I hate your show" don't wonder why in an interview he says "I can't make everyone happy".

When he reaches out to the old cast and they say "No, thanks" don't be offended if Moore says, "I offered them roles but they won't come. It's up to them."

Many of us may hate Moore but he is in the end a writer trying to do his best. The fact that his vision is not your vision just shows you are both human. From a business sense time will tell if Moore was right. Hostility however isn't going to make him anymore open to "fan input" than he already is.

Larson made an abomination to TOS (BSG1980) and damn near killed the franchise but I don't hate him and I bet you don't either.

An unexpected surprise...
 

Well, well. I recieved this at CA via Sandy:

My reply:

Dear Mr. Moore,

Under the circumstances, I am pleased at this unexpected response, and thank you on behalf of myself and Galacticon. I hope this will be an example of how a misunderstanding can be resolved by a true willingness to communicate, to understand the other person's point of view, and to consider why they may feel the way they do. Agreement is not mandatory, but respect, from all parties, is essential.

I hope this communication continues in a positive manner.

Michelle

I am sure Mr. Moore will take the back handed response in the spirit given.

He gave an apology and you gave him a lecture in respect.

This is exactly what I have been saying. The TOS only fans nit pick his interviews with a fine tooth comb. Reread you statement. EVERY sentence has an implication that:

1. Under the circumstances (implying Moore has made things bad). Unexpected (Implies he does not communicate with fans).
2.Misunderstanding (Moore doesn't understand) Willingness to communicate (Implies Moore is not willing to communicate) to understand the other's point of view (Implies Moore does not understand your point of view) Consider why they may feel (Implies Moore does consider how people feel).
3. Agreement is not mandatory (Drive home the point you don't agree with Moore) Respect from all parties (Implies Moore does not respect you)
4. Positive manner (Implies you fear Moore will not be positive)

A simple:

Thanks for the response. I am glad to see it was a misunderstanding on my part.

With responses from TOS-only fans like the above I continue to be amazed that Moore continues to reach out the hand of friendship.

I know you don't realize the way your words come off but you can sure find the hidden meaning of Moore's words in a large interview.

Nice interpretation, but you're wrong. Knock yourself out, though. ;)

I could say the same thing about your original post to start the thread. My point is if you expect to have an issue with someone it's easy to find one.

Moore is a fine writer doing his best. It may not be what we like but he genuinely is not out to hurt anyone. He is either genuinely reaching out to the fans or SCIFI is forcing him to. In either case that makes him or SCIFI better than the man or organization people paint.

antelope,


Perhaps, if you placed yourself in the shoes of the ones "offended" by the remarks, you may realize why we were offended. Have you considered that if Moore had not made his own "back-handed" comments, in the interview, there would not have been an issue (this time).

His "back handed" comment is as obvious or unobvious as Micheleh's.

You are offended by Moore but I bet don't even see Micheleh's comment as offensive. That is the point. No matter what he does he will be wrong. No matter what the fan says to him, they are right.

I see no obvious problem with Moore's statement unless I want to find a problem. I can say the same thing about Micheleh's. I can feel the anger in her's and the frustration in Moore's. Two sides of the same coin.

I will reply wthout anger as someone who liked some of what I saw in the new production and without trying to "Poke Holes" in everything RM has done with his re-invisioned "Battlestar Galactica". Bottom line is this, (In My Humble Opinion) without making it a personal attack, it was perhaps, unwise not to make more of an attempt to "Bridge" old and new, so a majority of all fans could more easily embrace the new production. It's kind of like the Captian Of A Ship. The buck stops there. Only one person has the responsibility for how "Fans" of either side of the issue view the remake/re-invisioned production, and in this case it's the Producer.

I happen to think RM is a highly qualified, successful, and imaginative guy, but he didn't care to do enough homework with Galactica, and that's the cause of the rift in fandom we currentlt have. Could he have pleased everyone? NO WAY. Could he have worked on constructing a better fan bridge? YES. JMO. (Without Personal Anger toward RM). Cheers!

Michelle -

I thought that your reply was very carefully and thoughtfully worded. Backhanded, my foot....! Considering how it all got started, you handled it very professionaly. I never got the impression that you were lecturing anyone. I thought that it was great that your words reached the eyes of whom they were intended and you got a response so quickly.

I can understand how Mr. Moore's comments may affect you directly in ways that a lot of us could never understand. You put a lot of yourself into the convention, so any casual or somewhat unflattering mention of the event would seem very personal. I didn't get to go, but from what I heard you did a terrific job and I can't wait to see some of the results when the con DVDs are distributed.

Best always,
Bryan
________
Gm Foods

Antelope,

I see both sides in the issue.

On Michelle's side it can be summed up in one word: Galacticon.

On Moore's end of things, I see his vantagepoint as well . He says he's tired of being asked questions about the angry TOS people who don't like his project. I think that's fair and hope that the next batch of people who interview RDM stake out new territory.

Thank you, John!

antelope,

Just as Moore was not "wrong" to say what he said about "the angry TOS people", "the angry TOS people" were not "wrong" to react to it. In addition, with the particular reference to Galacticon, if you had any idea of the amount of time and effort that Michele poured into the Con, you would have realized that Moore's remarks about it were a slap in the face to her.

IF we NITPICK each and every interview with a Fine TOOTHED comb it is
because he has lied so often to the fans of the Original BSG that it is
laughable.

And usually each time he reaches out the 'hand of friendship' he usually
has his fingers crossed behind his back with each PROMISE he makes.

So FORGIVE US if we really don't trust HIM ......as he has YET to EARN
our TRUST.

Ron may be a lot of things, but I've never thought of him as a liar. This kind of behavior characterizes some of his followers (and also, some of his adversaries), but as for Ron, he's been up front. He went through three very frank chats with TOS fans - two at the Alliance and one at BSG.com.

I appreciate that he read and responded to the points Michelle raised in this thread.

Mecheleh,

Wow, I can't believe this. Ron Moore actual does pay attention to these websites. I am glad he wrote you the letter and explain himself. And I liked your response to him, it was very well written.

nccdee

TELL IT Michelleh!

Richard Hatch has class, Ron .............well let's not go MediaBlvd, 'eh?

I think Moore is worried about an MGM movie, with or without Hatch just think of the headlines the MGM PR people would churn out re: Starbuck, OUCH!

Well said Dvo .............well said. ;)

I hope no one took offense at my earlier statement. It was meant to provoke thought not throw mud. I know from the various post that Micheleh is a kind hearted and well meaning person.

As I became aware of the "ugly" past I have read every interview or article I find in reference to Ron Moore and Battlestar Galactica I can find. I expected to find hostility from Moore. I know some see him that way but all I ever find time and time again is an honest up front interview in which Ron Moore is repeatedly questioned about the fact that fans don't like him. I read post over and over how fans get frustrated when he doesn't answer them about various ways he harmed Galactica. The guy is like Rocky. He keeps getting hit over and over and yet keeps coming back for more. At this point you must admit he is either a masochist or is genuinely trying to reach out.

People say he doesn't know Galactica. I read his interviews and see a man who knows Galactica very well. I also see a man making a mystery story that doesn't want people to figure out the story before they see it. I bet if he wasn't covering what he was doing in the series we could have a fine TOS discussion with him. Look at the mini characters, not names and subplots and you will see he has pulled a lot from TOS and even from BSG1980.

If someone read this and other Battlestar Galactica sites and wanted to remake Saga of A Star World what would they have read on the fan postings:

The first half of the movie was great. Get rid of the Carillon half. That's just what Moore did.

If you watched all of TOS and wanted a new series that started where TOS ended how would you go from Saga of A Star World to the last episode of TOS in 4 hours? Moore did it.

If you liked one aspect of BSG1980 what would it be? How about the introduction of human-cylons? Moore did it.

Moore IS a Battlestar Galactica fan in particular TOS. He has a show to make however and can't afford to tip his hand and spoil everything before the audience can see his work.

I just think we should treat him as the person he appears to be: A good science fiction writer who is a fan of Battlestar Galactica and is doing his best to bring it back in a way he thinks will be popular, profitable, and keeping in the spirit of the original.

I think Moore, Desanto, and Hatch are all trying to do what they think is best for the modern audience and the franchise. I wish them all success and want none to fail. Right now at least Moore thankfully was given a chance. I don't plan to hit a gift horse in the mouth.

For the record, RM's apology is at CA.

I said this to Michelle and I'm not embarrassed to repeat it here.
 

Ron Moore is a horse's ass. After reading that comment, knowing how gracious Richard was in inviting him to the "little get together" only reinforces my resentment towards his arrogance. Although he was given a set of directives by Sci-Fi that he could not do any kind of a continuation as opposed to the "re-imagining" agenda, his attitude is another slap in the face against fans of the original series, not just those who "hated" the idea without having an open mind about it.

JV

Moore has put steel on target. There IS a core group that wants TOS continued exactly where it left off with the same exact characters portrayed by the same exact actors wearing the same exact costurmes and they will accept nothing else. NOTHING he does will be accepted by this group because his name is not Glen Larson. How big is this group? 10K would be a high figure, IMHO.

As far as his comments regarding Galacticon, the man has publicly apologized for them. The way I understand the response to that apology can be translated as "go pound salt. Apology not accepted".

All of this is not good for Galactica fandom as a whole. Let's all go have a :beer: , I'm buyin'.

THIS is where a great deal of the problem comes from. You basically are telling all of the original series fans, "Look, I've already decided you're narrow, fixated and impossible to please, Moore was just right about it." And you expect a thoughtful response? Gimme a break.

I AM an original series fan. From the original airings.

That being said, I really do believe that there is a group of narrow, fixated, impossible to please fanatics out there. Does this group consist of ALL TOS fans? No way. Does it consist of ALL those who want a continuation? Again, no. I believe that this group of fanatics is very small when you consider the size of BSG fandom as a whole or even when you consider just those who want a continuation. (Thus my 10K figure)

Some people are just more willing to hear or see other ideas.

Is Moore right or wrong? I don't know. And frankly, I don't care.

If these are your thoughts then, how little you understand us. I won't go over what has been stated, ad infinitum. Suffice it to say that our wants, desires, hopes, and dreams for a continuation are contained within these forums.

Regarding Moore, he wants to re-write the story, supplanting the original chemistry with his own 'realistic' concoction. We should support that? Sorry, this is one 'experiment' that I do not want to be associated with.

On the numbers issue, I find it rather amusing that folks still feel a need to try marginalizing the original series proponents.

Oh well...

BST

BST,

Read my post above yours. I think it's #27.

Moore apologized after ihis insult was brought to his attention.
 

He's doing a backpedal to make sure P.R. stays good. He should have thought first before he made the comment. That's the problem. He doesn't think at the amount of people he would hurt before he opened his trap because of his arrogance. He apologized. Great. Let's see if it prevents him from making insensitive comments in the future. I'm betting it won't.

Yes, you are correct in saying that there is a core group of fans who would not accept anything other than a continuation of Larson's original series who are closed minded, and I myself don't agree with them. But I think there is a larger, more open minded audience, that would have been willing to accept ANYTHING that wasn't a bastardization of what they held dear, which is what I believe the new BSG IS. I don't even hold Moore responsible, because I do understand he was given a mandate he had to follow that dictated no continuation (like what DeSanto wanted to do) by the true culprit, Bonnie Hammer. I don't wish Moore any ill-will despite his arrogance. I just wish he would understand he is not the GOD of sci-fi he thinks he is (the swarmy "hey man, I KILLED Kirk" comment he likes to throw around all the time epitomizes the attitude) and recognize there would BE no Galactica for him to bastardize had it not been handed to him. It was legendary material to begin with, not by his perceived importance at making it more "mature" or re-inventing the wheel. By that line of thinking, could or would anyone expect or want to see the original "Star Wars" trilogy or original run of "Star Trek" episodes "re-imagined" with the characters recast and a great foundation laid waste for other people's egos who couldn't just create something original of their own with it's own name?

JV

P.S. to everyone that likes to point the finger at Larson for "Galactica: 1980" and think he "killed" Galactica... he was given a set of directives by ABC after they cancelled the original show, much like Moore was told by Hammer "this is how we want you to do it". Don't blame Larson, when he discovered "Galactica:1980" was being cancelled he did "Return of Starbuck" to make sure fans knew he didn't forget what the original was all about and it's an example of how he wished he COULD have been allowed to do "Galactica" had the network not pulled the plug first season or set the rules for "kid-friendly Galactica: 1980".