Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Okay, don't get me wrong, I loved Serena, but Apollo was never meant for marital bliss with a soft, even-tempered woman. Sheba could rock his world, and keep him on his toes, and in my mind they never get married, but fight & love their way through their lives.:love::erk:

Thoughts?

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

In my fics, they seal. In the VS, they are.
I think Sheba is best for him, not that there was anything wrong with Jane Syemour/Serina, but Sheba understands something that Serina did not. What it is like to grow up in a military family where Dad is almost never home, because of the War. Both are firstborn, and thus understand the weight of expectations that a military heritage can bring to bear.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Serina, sweet-tempered? Heh heh. That woman had fire. I loved her standing up to Apollo over learning to fly a shuttle. He was putty in her hands. My overall impression of Apollo and Serina was that she seemed a little too mature for him. For some reason it always impressed me as being Apollo's first real big relationship, and that for the most part, she led, he followed. I have these long-standing impressions of her convincing him to do things, or to let her do things he wasn't comfortable with. Still, the fact that the relationship was brief and way he lost her pretty much guaranteed that Apollo/Serina would go down in history as the love of his life. No one can compete with a memory.

I agree with Apolloisall about Sheba/Apollo. As a fanfic writer, I see endless opportunity for a fiery, tumultuous relationship that never ends in them getting sealed. Apollo at this point in the series seems so much more emotionally mature, and Sheba is more than a match for him with her equally passionate headstrong temperament. However, once again in the arena of romance, it is Sheba leading and Apollo --well, in Hand of God he pretty much sits there like a deer in the headlights, making this fan wonder if our good captain is a little challenged in the romantic forum. :wtf:

To me the glaring problem in the Apollo/Sheba relationship is that I constantly see it portrayed where they are both high level officers that are married, usually Sheba under Apollo's direct line of command. While fans seem content to parlay most American air force or naval guidelines into the world of BSG, they consistently ignore fraternization policies. It just doesn't ring true unless it's addressed. I find it interesting that we can spend long hours discussing speed of light, tylium energizers, ion propulsion, etc, trying to get the science right in the science fiction, yet we ignore something as basic as fraternization.

A little quote that puts it better than I could:
Historically, fraternization is a gender-neutral concept. Its focus is on the detriment to good order and discipline resulting from the erosion of respect for authority inherent in an unduly familiar senior-subordinate relationship, not the sex of the members involved. In this sense, fraternization is a uniquely military concept, although abuse of a senior's position for personal gain and actual or perceived preferential treatment are leadership and management problems that also arise in civilian organizations. In the context of military life, the potential erosion of respect for the authority and leadership position of a senior in grade or rank can have an enormously negative effect on good order and discipline and seriously undermine a unit's effectiveness. Therefore, prohibition of fraternization serves a valid, mission essential purpose.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Not sure exactly why, but it seemed how Apollo and Serena fell in love was nicely portrayed. My vote is Serena...

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Serina. The love seemed 'real' as it were. Maybe Hatch really did fancy Seymour (who wouldn't). Sheba...it couldn't last. Especially if Season 2 had happened as intended.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

But Serena was too good to be true!
Sheba was closer to real.
My 2 cubits.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

From the 2-cent file:

Well, my vote would be Serina. For the very reasons of military experience as well as similar upbringing and family make-up that have Sheba as the right choice for Apollo, it would be those reasons that would doom the relationship, in my opinion. By contrast, Serina is not being considered all that similar to Apollo, either in military experience or upbringing. Those are reasons that I would see as building blocks for a more solid, longer lasting relationship.

Why?

Ever hear of opposites attracting?

That's what you would have with an Apollo/Serina relationship/marriage and it's my opinion that each would build, from the dissimilarities, a foundation that encompasses both and would actually strengthen both if, and it's a very big if, each person's background, etc was formally acknowledged and treated with respect.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Which is why I stated that Apollo & Sheba would never be sealed IMO. Too alike. Fighting a lot. Yet ultimately finding solace in each other.
In the finest of circumstances, Serena would have been best for Apollo, and he for her.
But the situation, as fictionally worked, could never support that.

sheba's fate
 

I've read about the scripts that kill off Sheba in the second season. Does anyone know why?
I'm supposing it's because Apollo will be single again, and like his counterparts the Cartwright sons, he can never get married because then women viewers will be jealous of his character's wife and not watch the series anymore. (I always thought that theory was nonsense.) This theory also doesn't work because why did Starbuck have not one but two steady female companions on the show?
From what I've read, Glen Larson really wanted Anne Lockhart in the show. I've heard her speak at conventions, and she's mentioned that she was offered a part early on, but she turned it down because the character didn't do anything. It wasn't until later that she was presented a different character and she accepted the role. So why would Larson allow her to be killed off?

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

I always assumed killing Sheba off was a means of trimming the cast down for budget/etc. Sallik and a couple of others as well.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Honestly, I don't see one above the other. I think they both had the right stuff to make lasting relationships with Apollo. Serina was a reporter by trade, but learned to be a shuttle pilot and eventually a Warrior. She was a fighter (personality wise) the entire time. The problem with her Saga Protrayal is that She was dying. even if all reference to the disease was removed, the protrayal was still there.

When you removed the deadly illness, then you had the strong woman show through.

Sheba, was a very similar character, except we saw her strength from the begining. it was as she developed that she showed more character.

No matter who it had been that he settled with ( because of Serina's death, Sheba) there would be fighting but lots of love.

That said, In my Continuation ideas, they do get seals and do have children. It's not easy, and when Apollo becomes Commander, it's harder. But Sheba isn't one to let him take it easy on her, she knows her duty and expects to be allowed to do it.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

This makes sense to me. There could have been budget cutting, but I think Larson did want her there.

I think Apollo and Serena made a cute couple. Big Jane Seymour fan, so was sad to see her go. I think her death was unneccessary except to give Apollo some freedom? Seems kinda lame, you could have had Starbuck for the "Freedom" aspect.

Sheba was pretty kick ass, but to be honest, always saw her as fellow kick ass bud. To be honest, why would Apollo and Sheba hook up? Attractive yes, tough, yes, but almost too similar to me. I mean really I would just see Sheba as a close friend only due to how the characters are. I think in a lot of ways she would be good at slapping Apollo around, like Starbuck could, when Apollo needed it, but really for much more? Just not feeling it.

To be fair to both ladies, I could see why Apollo would be attracted to either, and that both would be beneficial to him and likewise, so that is not a problem. Best match? Big Anne Lockhart fan and all, but you know, I just feel that killing Serena off was a big waste. If anyone could fill that void, I believe Sheba was a good strong person to do it.

But in the end, I also feel that perhaps Sheba deserved better than to be the clean up after Serena was gone. Just another feeling I have about it.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Normally quite so. But the world of BSG is not a normal one. It's obvious I think, to even the casual, non-military viewer, that many aspects of military discipline have been relaxed, if not outright ignored. Since the Galactica and the Fleet right now, thanks to the Holocaust, are Colonial civilization, too rigid an interpretation of regs could have the opposite of the intended effect. Obviously, Starbuck did numerous things that, once, would have gotten him stripped and moduled, had there been a Colonies to go back to. Personally, I think that Adama may have been a bit too indulgent; I certainly would have been less tolerant of SB's treatment of Athena were she my daughter! Her and SB, being lovers, and assigned to the same ship...not the best. Perhaps his superlative "meshing" with Apollo as pilots was a mitigating factor, here.
Still, at one time, such rigid rules could be endured, even embraced, since they worked towards the greater good; maintaining the discipline necessary to preserving civilization against a genocidal enemy. Now, in a situation where military and civilian ways and attitudes overlap, due to necessity, some erosion of the rules is inevitable, wish for it to be otherwise though we might. There is, basically, no where else to go.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

I dont think fraternization would be much of a problem for a military that allows Very blatant nepotism.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Ditto! As much as I loved the Sheba/Apollo pairing, Sheba was very independent minded

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

I agree with this statement, but just for fun, what examples of nepotism did you see?

I can remember Adama wanting to keep Apollo from going to Ice Planet Zero that was one I remember right off the bat.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Well, the thing about Starbuck is that while the audience knew he was doing things that dear ole Adama might not approve of, Adama didn't necessarily find out. Plus Starbuck's romantic activities in the series were really limited to some harmless flirting and kissing, which we tend to extrapolate on in our own minds or certainly in fanfiction. Indications from that SB/Athena locker room scene in Saga indicates that the two hadn't seen each other naked before. There was a little too much embarrassment there for "lovers". Now, if I was Athena and was dating Starbuck, frankly I wouldn't be discussing our activities with dear ole Dad. And the fact that she always forgave SB and even later in WOTG seemed to be still flirting with him, lends me to believe that she was obviously getting something she also needed from the relationship.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

I agree.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Nailed on the head LZ. I never thought of the 'naked issue' (Starbuck being embarassed at seeing Athena naked in Saga) before. Makes sense everything you say.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

I think Athena covered up because she was hardly in the mood right then. She's just lost her brother, her mom, her whole civilization, she and SB have just been screaming at each other in the corridor. She's not exactly in the mood for any bed sheet bingo, and probably feels like collapsing in on herself. At normal times, it would be different.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Oh things were more innocent than you want to give them credit for being, Sen.

Remember Cassiopeia's firm "Colonel!" when Tigh asked them what they were doing up in the celestial dome in Hand of God. And this from a former socialator.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Yes, former. She's now commited to SB, in a different profession, and besides, talking about that in "public" might be a bit outre.
But it was a funny scene, yeah.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

And we have everything trimmed or modified for the US censor. The sorts of things that a US audience were allowed to see compared to the rest of us can seem positively quaint, especially in 'family' shows.

my take on Sheba & Apollo
I never saw Apollo and Sheba being a permemnet item. he is conservative in his outlook and would have 'stayed loyal' to Serena for very long time, especially with the responsibilty of Boxey, and with the example of his own parents.

Sheba would NOT have been prepared to wait forever: the Hand of god was her shot at declaring her hand and 'thawing' Apollo, but as pointed out he did 'deer in the headlights'.
Sheba knew her own mind and would have quickly modified her expectations. She would have been a good friend, there would have been interaction, but in the end she was competant (most of the time... sometimes the writing slipped) and ambitious warrior who wpuldn't have spent the war chasing a man.
She was Cains daughter as Apollo was Adama's son and the professonal differences/respect/frustration between the fathers would have been happening between the offspring. And that would have made for good storytelling

Don't get me wrong, knowing each other would be good for each other: a mirror, another perspective another POV.

Cheers
Lara

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

"Rest of us"? Is this another "Oh you unenlightened Yanks" thingy? :?:

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Well, our track record does seem to say that we're rather stuffy about sex in entertainment (except in the early seventies, when PG meant limited violence but lots of nudity:D).

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Senmut,

I think that you're taking her remark out of context. To me, it seems as though Lara's saying that the censors in the States are more restrictive than in other parts of the world, i.e., the "rest of us" tag. I wouldn't view that as a slight but, as a matter of fact.

Maybe taking a deep breath and doing a "re-read" would help.

;)

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Read the post twice. Sadly, I've seen the same in other posts, in othe fora. Words differ widely, but it always comes down to we in the US somehow being behind, or not as "open" or enlightened, or audiences/producers were just not "as ready" or whatever, for whatever topic it is under discussion, as whoever the other people are. Frankly, it's arrogant, condescending, and begins to wear just a bit.

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

If you see this often and in other forums, perhaps it is a widely held belief, and perhaps it is because it is true.
So instead of saying it wears, how about just regarding it as you would if someone was pointing out that the sky is blue... again. :rolleyes:

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

I don't see it that way. If our censors, here, are more protective than their counterparts in other countries, it's not the other country's fault nor its citizens for pointing that out. I don't see a condescending attitude nor do I see arrogance. Of course, if one is looking for it, one will ultimately find it.

To illustrate, we had Rob and Laura Petrie sleeping in separate beds (Dick Van Dyke Show) in the same relative time period that we had folks baring all, making love not war, and smoking weed, in Saugerties, NY (Woodstock).

Were we "behind"? Were we enlightened? Was there a "disconnect" between television and reality?

Re: Serena or Sheba- which was/is a better match for Apollo?
 

Ya think??

Still is.

Senmut, she's right. American television is unenlightened in these areas - and it was positively puritanical back in the '60's and '70's compared to now.

It's hypocritical, too, given the sexualization of our advertising.

I wouldn't blame any European citizen (or Australian, or...) if they ridiculed that aspect of our media; but Lara isn't, she simply states the fact.

And if there is ire to be raised, point it where it belongs - the meddling of government bureaucrats who think they know better than we do.

I am
Dawg
:warrior: