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1978/80 Episode Reviews
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Bombadil March 19th, 2004 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by launchcruiser7
in Saga the cylon says that over 200 warriors are on Carilon why then do people think there is only 75 Vipers on a battlestar? You could fit 100 vipers on alpha bay alone. With the Pegasus airwing on board there are 400 Vipers in the fleet. In Hand of God Tigh says they have 150 Vipers. Where are the rest??
:cylon: :cylon: :cylon: :girl: :confused: :salute: :warrior:

Others have pointed out that there were some technical details that were just sort of "thrown out there" that may not have been carefully thought through, and which probably weren't intended to be pushed on.

I think I recall that after the Cylon ambush was over, the Galactica recovered a total of only 67 Vipers. But we can assume that they have been able to build new ones. So how many Vipers can the Galactica hold at maximum? I keep hearing the number 150. 75 in each bay. But hold on a minute. Let's do just a rough and dirty calculation.

Assume that the Galactica is about a mile long (for a really detailed discussion of this, see the thread regarding the size of the Galactica). That makes the landing bays about 2000 feet long. That about twice the length of a modern navy aircraft carier. And there are two landing bays.

A Viper is about the size of a large fighter jet. A carrier holds between 80 and 100 jets. Therefore two landing bays, each twice the length of a carrier, should be able to hold between 320 and 400 Vipers. And that's without considering any increase in width or depth. So a stated capacity of 150 Vipers is just a wee bit on the small side.

:salute:

Antelope March 19th, 2004 02:25 PM

The issue may have nothing to do with the run way space but with launcher and storage capacity. In addition no matter how many vipers the Galactica started with, assuming it had a full complement at the start of Saga of A Star World who knows how many actually have survived the various battles and returned to the Galactica. The same can be said for the Pegasus. Her entire fleet was destroyed at the Battle of Molachy so I highly doubt they have anywhere near a full complement either.

Bombadil March 19th, 2004 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antelope526
The issue may have nothing to do with the run way space but with launcher and storage capacity. In addition no matter how many vipers the Galactica started with, assuming it had a full complement at the start of Saga of A Star World who knows how many actually have survived the various battles and returned to the Galactica. The same can be said for the Pegasus. Her entire fleet was destroyed at the Battle of Molachy so I highly doubt they have anywhere near a full complement either.

Good observation. But I think we can assume that they are building new Vipers, even though I don't think that has ever been specifically stated. And you're right, hangar deck space is more critical than runway space. But I still think that the landing bays are large enough to service 400 or more Vipers. The writers just never stopped to work it out carefully.

By the way, the same consideration holds true for number of crew (and passengers). If the Galactica is roughly five times the length of a Nimitz class carrier, five time the average width (I think it's more, but let's use five), and five times the height, then it ought to be able to accommodate 125 times the human complement. A Nimitz carrier has about 5000 souls on board. So the Galactica ought to be able to comfortably accommodate 625,000 people. Even if you trim that a lot, you can still fit the entire population of survivors (50,000 according to the mini) on board the Galactica alone, with lots of leftover space for making echos.

I think somebody just thought that 50,000 was a lot of people, and didn't really do the math.

:salute:

skippercollecto March 22nd, 2004 06:52 PM

which warrior is which?
 
Thanks to the DVD, which shows some deleted scenes and also allows me easily pause and replay, I have begun to match up the names with the faces off the female warriors listed in the closing credits. If you go to the deleted scenes segment of "Lost Planet of the Gods," there is a different wedding scene from what was actually shown in the episode. Serina walks down the steps of the council chambers, past all her bridesmaids.
Starting at the top left, and going clockwise down the steps, you see:
1. A black woman with short black curly hair--Gay Thomas, the third girl warrior in the first half.
2. A woman with long medium brown hair, whom I haven't identified yet.
3. Leann Hunley, with her long blonde hair, is easily recognizable. She's listed as the first girl warrior in the closing credits and is named Carrie in the novelization "The Tombs of Kobol," and several other Galactica novels.
4. Sheila DeWindt/Lt. Dietra
5. Sarah Rush/Rigel
6. Janet Louise Johnson/Sgt. Brie
7. Laurette Spang/Cassiopeia
8. Maren Jensen/Athena
9. A woman with long straight almost-black hair. This is Jennifer Joseph, and in one of the deleted scenes she is referred to as Gemi/Jamie.
10. A woman with long ash-brown hair.
11. A woman with a brown pageboy.
There are two woman listed in the closing credits that I have yet to figure out what she looks like. One of them is Janet Lynn Curtis. In the closing credits of both the first and second episodes, she's listed as Sorell; however, no one ever addresses anyone by that name in any scene, and there is no character by that name in the novelization. I looked up Curtis on imdb.com, and learned she had a regular role as Margaret Ellen in another Glen Larson series, "The Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo." So perhaps if any of you remember this character (or will admit to having watched Lobo!), you could tell us what she looked like, and hence, which character she was on Galactica.
In the second episode, there is a different "third girl warrior" listed. Her name is Millicent Crisp. I don't have any information on her at all.

Can any of you help?

Mary

skippercollecto March 22nd, 2004 07:03 PM

medical shuttle
 
The whole story of the medical shuttle going back to the asteroid to look for virus samples is ignored in the episode. I can't help but wonder if there originally had been a storyline planned regarding the shuttle, Apollo and Starbuck, and the new women warriors once they landed on the asteroid, but was discarded because it would have made the episode too long. I've always assumed that Dr. Salik, Cassiopeia and some of the other medical staff and maybe a scientist (Dr. Wilker?) were on that shuttle.
Of course, this is an idea for fan fiction for any of you!

Mary

Eric Paddon March 25th, 2004 01:19 PM

The one drawback of the deleted scenes supplement on the DVD for this episode is that it leaves out a scene that was included the syndicated "telemovie" version of the episode. In this scene on Kobol as Adama, Apollo and Serina go through the ruins, Adama talks about how Kobol died through their contamination of the planet's resources, and he also mentions that those who settled the Colonies destroyed their technology as a sign of repentance. To my knowledge this is the only "telemovie" scene from the two part episodes not included in any of the supplements.

Senmut March 30th, 2004 10:53 PM

Bummer. If it was shot, it should be included.

Eric Paddon April 2nd, 2004 12:07 PM

It's the only blemish as far as the deleted scenes supplements go in the DVD set. Fortunately those who have the telemovie can see it edited back into the episode itself, and it really works well there.

Senmut April 8th, 2004 01:48 AM

I have often wondered about the void that Kobol's solar system is in. It cannot always have been there. Did it have something to do with Kobol dying, and the damping of its sun?

CmdrCain April 13th, 2004 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
In this scene on Kobol as Adama, Apollo and Serina go through the ruins, Adama talks about how Kobol died through their contamination of the planet's resources, and he also mentions that those who settled the Colonies destroyed their technology as a sign of repentance. To my knowledge this is the only "telemovie" scene from the two part episodes not included in any of the supplements.

That's interesting. I don't think I'd ever come across that bit of dialogue before.

One thing I wondered about while viewing this episode was why it was that Kobol didn't seem to have any modern cities. I suppose that such cities could have been destroyed in some cataclysm, leaving only the more ancient dwellings; although it still seems odd that Adama would believe that the answer to the location of the 13th tribe would be found in an ancient pyramid. It would seem more logical to look for that information in the ruins of an old spaceport or a command-and-control facility.

Then again...

If I remember correctly, the 12 worlds were colonized first, and the the 13th tribe didn't migrate until much later. It could be that Kobol had repented its technology, dismantled most of it, and returned to its more primitive ways by the time the 13th tribe set off. Maybe the 13th tribe was composed of the last technological hold-outs who were finally forced to flee.

I may be forgetting some canon here, but it's fun to speculate. :)

Captain Morgan April 18th, 2004 08:17 PM

I just watched the 1st episode today and thought it was great!I liked it way more than the pilot the beginning of the show is just like CHiPS!

Captain Morgan April 21st, 2004 08:07 PM

I watched part 2 today after work kind of a let down from the great part 1.
also this is the first time I watched the extras on the DVD,I'm not sure
what I think of this stuff,I mean it's nice to have but I would like more info
about the making of the series.This is all new to me I haven't watched this
show since I was a kid,and I,m really enjoying it! :warrior:

kingfish May 3rd, 2004 03:15 PM

Tombs of Kobol.

I just started rereading this one. I owned a copy of it many yahrens ago but gave it away. I bought the reprint last year. As an adult I can really appreciate this magnificent work. The prologue tells of how Baltar's life was spared and also why he couldn't stand Adama. They were both cadets at the academy and of all things Baltar was jealous of Adama's singing ability. Also Adama was quite the ladies man. This made Baltar choose a career in politics which he was also bad at.



The book is fantastic. Lucifer has actually achieved conciousness and strives for more than a third brain. Lucifer also has a soul which he created himself. Lucifer also believes that the Cylon race is flawed. They can't beat the Colonials because they use archaic battle plans. Another interesting fact is that Jolly and Boomer were wearing both breathing gear and gloves when they landed on the asteroid. The terrain was so harsh that they had to remove their gloves and were greeted with a gooey/watery substance on the rocks they had to crawl and climb over to go undetected. The things that we fail to appreciate as children.

Eric Paddon May 3rd, 2004 04:24 PM

I never found the episode novelizations satisfying, in part because they went afield from the way things were done in the broadcasts. While I understand the thinking behind keeping the Cylons living beings as they were originally conceived, this meant losing some important things later on, particularly with regard to Iblis's voice as Imperious Leader, which is dispensed with completely in the "War Of The Gods" novelization (and more incredibly, the Ship Of Lights returns Baltar to his baseship at the end of the book but then without explanation he's a prisoner again when adapting "Baltar's Escape"). It also didn't help that "Hand Of God" was never adapted since that is the strongest episode of the series overall.

One reason why I went back and did my own fanfic adaptations of all the original series episodes (I have now done 12 of the 17 stories, not in sequence) was because I felt the stories could use expanding/adjusting/foreshadowing but to do it without harming the integrity of what was broadcast so that reading them would be like experiencing an expanded version of the actual episodes. The novelizations, much like Hatch's novels, too often offer the same characters not speaking in familiar voices to me.

That said, "Tombs Of Kobol" is one of the better ones in the series beacuse Robert Thurston was the best of the writers hired for these. He had to come up with a pretty good way of getting Baltar alive again since his novelization of "Saga" has a scene of a centurion telling Imperious Leader that Baltar had been beheaded and the body disposed of.

Senmut May 3rd, 2004 10:00 PM

Which just goes to show that, surprise!!! Cylons can lie!

BRG September 12th, 2004 09:07 AM

****
 
4 out of 5 for this episode, I enjoyed it as much as the opening 3 parter.

The link between the Colonies and Earth through some ancient civilisation was always one of my favourite parts of Galactica. I loved the whole sequence where Adama, Apollo & Serina are searching the ancient ruins for clues on the 13th Tribe.(although the the 'on location' shots from Egypt are clearly of some dude in Adama's outfit with a overly white hairpiece! :LOL: ) A lot of the stuff from this episode in repeated in the Indiana Jones films & Tomb Raider computer games, and Adama's medallion acting a a key is also similar to the 'puzzle box' from The Mummy, and the hexagonal disc from Smallville. Also, the way Adama & Baltar behave in the tomb is well done. Both hold the sacred medallion, but while Adama knows what it can be used for, and knows the responeabillity taht goes with entering the Tomb, Baltar just considers the medallion as a symbol of power, and his action lead to his apparent doom when he sets of the booby-trap.

The first part of the episode was great, with the pilots falling ill, and the shuttle pilots having to step up to combat pilots. Although I thoght it was maybe a wee bit out of date and sexist in 2004. That all the new fighter pilots are hot women, who are all standing around in skin tight 'pressure suits' while Apollo & Starbuck run them through the basics. :drool: It reminded me of the crap old sit com 'On The Buses' when it proved women coud do the job as well as men. But as I said, in 2004 we have women fighter pilots in all major airforces, so it looks aou of date.

Why was the medical subplot dropped for part 2? I assume for time, but still it should have been concluded. And the main down point was that the space battle in the void suddenly became a starfield! :eek:

Serina's death was a shock. :( But it gave us some great acting, espicially from Richard Hatch. A very sad & moving scene.
BRG

ps- George Murdock, who played Dr Salik, had a fine guest apperance as a Freak of the Week in an episode of Smallville. It was season 1 episode "Hourglass", and is one of the best episodes of the show(IMO). Any Superman fans may want to check in out. :thumbsup:

BST December 22nd, 2004 05:34 PM

Finally got a chance to sit down and watch an episode from the DVD set and chose this one. This has always been one of my favorite episodes. I love the setting on Kobol and the pyramid link between the Colonies and Earth. I truly enjoyed Apollo's and Serina's sealing ceremony - the candlelit service was a nice touch as was the reference to Boxey as the "protector of Serina".

I absolutely loved Adama's reaction when Baltar entered the burial chamber. It was beautiful!!

;)

Speaking of Adama, it was interesting to see him as a simple explorer, inspecting the various writings, etc within the ruins. What I found a bit disturbing, though, was how seemingly easy it was for Adama to tell Baltar exactly what his plan was regarding the journey (hopefully to Earth). That part didn't make sense to me, no matter how well Baltar "pitched" his story about being a victim and about conquering the Cylon homeworld.


With regards to the present day "discussion" about female Viper pilots and women's "capabilities", given the real-life conditions in the '70's, it could be said that Galactica was actually "forward-thinking" with the idea of having female pilots engaged in combat situations.



Ah well, it was a joy to watch it again!

BST

Eric Paddon December 22nd, 2004 06:08 PM

"What I found a bit disturbing, though, was how seemingly easy it was for Adama to tell Baltar exactly what his plan was regarding the journey (hopefully to Earth). That part didn't make sense to me"

It does in this context. Adama at this point regards Baltar as his prisoner, and he isn't thinking of a possibility of Baltar ending up free again to use that kind of information. Also, Adama up to the very moment of Baltar's appearance in the tomb hasn't been aware that Baltar is still alive, let alone in command of a baseship, so it can also be said that he hasn't had time to digest that variable as well.

BST December 22nd, 2004 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon
"What I found a bit disturbing, though, was how seemingly easy it was for Adama to tell Baltar exactly what his plan was regarding the journey (hopefully to Earth). That part didn't make sense to me"

It does in this context. Adama at this point regards Baltar as his prisoner, and he isn't thinking of a possibility of Baltar ending up free again to use that kind of information. Also, Adama up to the very moment of Baltar's appearance in the tomb hasn't been aware that Baltar is still alive, let alone in command of a baseship, so it can also be said that he hasn't had time to digest that variable as well.


Well, now, I didn't think of that. :eek:

Eric Paddon December 22nd, 2004 06:57 PM

The other point that bears this out is when later he says with annoyance to Apollo, "I thought I ordered you to remove him to the Galactica."


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