Are We Being jammed ?

[kingfish]

I found something very interesting. I taped the G 1980 marathon that aired the same day as the Nu BG premiere at 9PM. I had taped the episode a year or so back but they didn't come that great so I figured I would make another copy to transfer to my new DVD recorder. Ironically the tape I made on January14th couldn't be transfered [it said copyright protected but I taped it off my television]. I guess they don't want us making Nu Galactica dvds.

[Darrell Lawrence]

Cable or dish?

Dish I have had no prob recording nuBG to VHS (Don't have a DVD recorder).

Maybe it's your settings? Have you tested them on other channels or programs from SciFi?

[kingfish]

I have cable. I did test it on other shows I previously recorded off of sci fi to VHS which including the BG marathon that ran for a week where the episodes were remastered for our enjoyment and had no problems transferring it to the dvd.

[Mustex]

Why does this go under criticism? While I understand people getting mad about not being allowed to file-share after recording an episode, when a broadcast is made that can be right-protected isn't it the owners of the property's right to do so? Just like it's their right to right-protect their DVDs. You don't seriously mean this as a criticism do you? If they wanted they could shelf it forever and we'd NEVER be able to make copies or even watch it.

[kingfish]

Well considering I purchased 2 os DVD sets and Galactica 1980 isn't slated for release on DVD format, I wanted to make myself and I say myself dvds of 1980.

[BST]

Mustex,

Criticism can mean many things to many people.
If a person chooses to voice this as a criticism, it is his or her prerogative.

:)

BST

[Mustex]

Well considering I purchased 2 os DVD sets and Galactica 1980 isn't slated for release on DVD format, I wanted to make myself and I say myself dvds of 1980.

You actually WANT G80 DVDs (with the exception of ROST, in which case I can understand)?

[Darrell Lawrence]

...and the problem with that is... what?

[Darrell Lawrence]

Same could be said about nuBG, and no doubt some say the same about osBG ;)

[Mustex]

Same could be said about nuBG, and no doubt some say the same about osBG ;)

If G80 fans exist (minus ROST) please inform me of them and I'll stop bashing it.

:Nsalute:

[Darrell Lawrence]

Me. SteveW. Kingfish. I know there is a few others out and about too.

As for me liking it, there's certain aspects I like.

Superscouts and anything involving them I can do without. Same for Z.

[Darth Marley]

G80 is a must for any "completist" fan.

While it has its trying moments, it is a product of its time and budget.

[kingfish]

Wanting G80 DVDs means you want to waste precious DVD space saving copies that you probably want to waste brain-cells watching.

:Nsalute:



Well since personal attacks are allowed at a site I used to love I guess I will leave. Good luck to all.


Regards,


Paul

[bsg1fan1975]

Me. SteveW. Kingfish. I know there is a few others out and about too.

As for me liking it, there's certain aspects I like.

Superscouts and anything involving them I can do without. Same for Z.

Add me to the list of a fan of G80. :salute:

[Jayworld]

I, too, am a fan of Galactica 1980. After the cancellation of the original series, it was all "we" had, even though it was very different. It did have Herb Jefferson, albeit in Colonel Tight's role, and the "Return of Starbuck" episode is classic. I did enjoy meeting and talking extensively with Ken McCord at an area collectible show a few years back concerning Galactica 1980; he had some interesting things to say about where "1980" was heading but was never realized because of the cancellation.....

[Gemini1999]

I remember watching Galactica 1980 back in 1979. I did watch the series every week, I liked the Turbines (flying bikes) and some of the new characters, but found the earthbound theme very limiting. I liked "Galactica Discovers Earth" for the most part, but I found the Colonials being portrayed as quite ignorant when it came to the "primitive" nature of Earth society an in-joke that was played too often. I also wasn't fond of the fact that the Colonials hid from their Terran brothers and tried to advance human society from the sidelines.

Like I said, I did watch every week and I was only 19 at the time, didn't question the show very much, but still missed the more dynamic and familiar characters of the original Battlestar Galactica. I remember looking forward to "The Night the Cylons Landed", which basically degraded into a Halloween themed story with Wolfman Jack, a human looking Cylon and Centurion that was called "Centuri". It could have been a lot better and I would have liked to see the Colonials intervene in somthing better than a taxicab and stolen white tailcoats and tall hats.

"The Return of Starbuck" was easily the highlight of the series - they must have known the end was coming for the series, which gave them time to put together an episode that Galactica fans could actually watch and enjoy. I really need to buy a tape of this episode so I can see it again!

Best,
Bryan

[jewels]

If G80 fans exist (minus ROST) please inform me of them and I'll stop bashing it.

:Nsalute:
There are several and they deserve as much respect as TNS fans. More appreciate it now as it didn't completely wipe out the premise or mythos of TOS as TNS did with "the cylons were created by man". We're also adults now and understand the politics of what the network timeslot did to the stories presented.

[Gemini1999]

Julie -

Where's Peter at? He's the biggest Galactica 1980 fan I can think of! I know that he'd have something to say in defense of it...

Best,
Bryan

[jewels]

Don't know.

[peter noble]

"I don't suppose it flies does it?" – Lt. Dillon ;)

[Darrell Lawrence]

"Why do they call you Boxey anyways?" - Dillon ;)

[peter noble]

"We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us!" – Cy ;)

[Gemini1999]

"We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us!" – Cy ;)


Peter -

Who knew that Cylons had a sense of humour.....!

Bryan

[ernie90125]

I remember watching Galactica 1980 back in 1979 Does your viper do time travel as well Gemini ? I always presumed that Galactica 1980 was released in 1980 ??? Then again, what would I know I wasn't even born in 1980 !

Return of Starbuck is of course the highlight of G80 in my view, and probably most other people's views as well. It is ironic that an episode that was part of the G80 spin-off series, could be one of the main inspirations of plotlines to most Continuations of the TOS, including Richard's Second Coming.

For that episode alone, the series is worthwhile.

During my first time of watching Galactica 1980 (those paying attention will realise that would have to be a re-run) I did enjoy the series, and to be honest still do. I thought the turbines were great, and would love to see them in a Continuation.

Aside from some of the science being a little far fetched (invisble people or time travelling vipers ?) I enjoyed it because that did not do anything to contradict the Original Series. It was also FUN to watch !

And I think that sentiment is something that we should all remember, considering the reprocussions this thread has already had - this is meant to be FUN....

[peter noble]

The highlight of G'80 is the Space Croppers and the unfilmed script The Wheel of Fire.

The first episode of Galactica Discovers Earth was broadcast on January 27, 1980.

Peter

[Darth Marley]

Oh, my, Peter said the high point of a series was an unfilmed script!

That one is going in to the permanent file.

[Darrell Lawrence]

Back on topic...

Paul, have you found out any more information in regards to your recordings?

[Gemini1999]

Back on topic...

Paul, have you found out any more information in regards to your recordings?

Darrell -

Is Paul still around? I got the impression he wasn't coming back..

Bryan

[Fragmentary]

This thread says a lot more about TNS than G80 when you think about it. It really puts into perspective how much some of us dislike the new series that we're having a fond nostalgic discussion about what used to be the red-headed stepchild of Galactica fandom.

G80 might not have ignored what happened in TOS like the new show does, but it did something worse. It made it a punchline. The deadly vipers from the original series were reduced to being essentially shuttles to ferry the characters to Earth and back. The white uniforms became emblematic (inexplicably) of time travel. And the colonial sidearm, so legendary in The Lost Warrior is replaced by a freeze ray! Hell, CHiPs even showed up in a episode. (kinda)

I suppose its cute, and has its place... but do we really have to invest it with some kind of validity?

[Eric Paddon]

Hey, at least as bad as Galactica 1980 was, it is still theoretically possible to salvage it. When I read a brilliant piece of fanfic that attempted to reconcile G80 to the original series it inspired me to write my own set of G80 stories that did likewise, and I found that I could have fun taking the basic G80 universe and reconciling it to the original series in good storytelling. You can NEVER do that with TNS, and that to me is the ultimate difference.

[Darrell Lawrence]

Listen to the audio ep OWD did... G-80's awful parts were a nightmare Apollo had. G-03 was a nightmare Troy had ;)

[Darrell Lawrence]

...oh, and Jaime was *hot* in that white uniform... PLUS she drove a 'stang! ;)

[Trevor Angelus]

This is also why I have taken my leave of this ONE SIDED posting board. When I first came here it was a haven for me and others to express our opinions of NUBSG.


We didn't like it but it came into fruition anyway.

Then when nu bsg fans emerged here. We were told to "tone our opinion" down, to have respect for the fans of the new.

Erstwhile the same consideration was NOT given to us.NEVER. These fans have been allowed to attack and berate, not only TOS, but us fans as well! Yet when we make a remotely negative comment, or not even then (ie my thread on what would endear tos fans to the new, which was my attempt at an olive branch) we are accussed of trying to instigate and start a fight! On top of that my posts were altered!

We TOS fans do not have a place here. Moore was successful at splitting the fan base. And Congratulations Colonial Fleets in allowing it to happen!

You will no longer have the honor of my posts here EVER. You have no honor at all!

[Fragmentary]

Hey, at least as bad as Galactica 1980 was, it is still theoretically possible to salvage it. When I read a brilliant piece of fanfic that attempted to reconcile G80 to the original series it inspired me to write my own set of G80 stories that did likewise, and I found that I could have fun taking the basic G80 universe and reconciling it to the original series in good storytelling. You can NEVER do that with TNS, and that to me is the ultimate difference.
I don't see why you couldn't do it with the new series as well. The only thing stoping fans from writing that particular kind of fanfic is having no interest. But it will happen, very soon I suspect. All it takes is creativity. No more than it takes to bend G80 to work with the original series. In fact, I would suspect that in the next few years, writing the kind of stories that reconcile old and new series will become the most popular type.
...oh, and Jaime was *hot* in that white uniform... PLUS she drove a 'stang!

The Mustang does earn the show some bonus points, even if they literally spray painted yellow paint over the damage on the car they used to shoot those scenes :rolleyes:

[Darth Marley]

Wanting G80 DVDs means you want to waste precious DVD space saving copies that you probably want to waste brain-cells watching.


Is this really the problem?

Is this a personal attack? Or is it a possibly rude failed effort at humor.
Or is it possibly just a personal opinion gone south about how one person really thinks G80 is a waste of time?

I've seen plenty of "TOS only" fans pour derision on G80, but I have never seen them labelled as nuBSG fans for those comments.

As for the copy protection scheme. Does anyone have a good link to the mechanics of the new schemes? Are there any vertical blanking interval filters on the market?

[Eric Paddon]

"Is this a personal attack? Or is it a possibly rude failed effort at humor."

Considering the source, and what both Kingfish (and I for that matter) already know of him and his tactics, the answer is an unequivocal, the former.

[Eric Paddon]

"I don't see why you couldn't do it with the new series as well."

You can only do it one of two ways, and neither of them make for my idea of good storytelling. One is the cliche of one character from TNS getting sucked into a "paralllel universe" and the other is that TNS is a bad dream of a TOS character or some nightmare IFB program from Hell.

OTOH, fixing G80 as I discovered works within the context of traditional storytelling.

[Darrell Lawrence]

Is this really the problem?

Is this a personal attack? Or is it a possibly rude failed effort at humor.
Or is it possibly just a personal opinion gone south about how one person really thinks G80 is a waste of time?

I've seen plenty of "TOS only" fans pour derision on G80, but I have never seen them labelled as nuBSG fans for those comments.


Darth, those comments came after a couple of other comments in another thread that was being posted in at the same time. Add them together.

[Dawg]

I'm still interested in whether or not they are actually able to copy-protect a broadcast. I don't think it's possible.

I would think it would be more an issue with the tape/DVD recorder relationship.

But I'm not a gearhead, either.....

(As to the rest - old news, folks, and off-topic besides - nothing more to see, move along, move along.... ;) )

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Darrell Lawrence]

I agree, so once again, back on topic.

Paul, I know you're lurking :D

Have you found out anymore info?

[Gemini1999]

I'm still interested in whether or not they are actually able to copy-protect a broadcast. I don't think it's possible.

I would think it would be more an issue with the tape/DVD recorder relationship.

John -

I remember seeing an article over the past year on a BSG site somewhere. It was about a lawsuit that MCA/Universal had undertaken to sue Sony Corp. when the first Betamax (remember those?) recorders were first produced. MCA/Uni contended that people would be able to tape broadcasts of TV shows and movies without consulting (or paying) MCA/Uni for the rights. I don't remember all the specifics, but I do remember that MCA/Uni lost the case as the subject was over media being broadcast on television.

That's the best I can recall about it.

Best,
Bryan

[Archangel]

I remember the post you were talking about. It was here. :)

[Dawg]

Yeah, I remember that very well. It set the precedent that I think will likely be used when the file sharing of TV shows becomes a legal issue - if it ever does (first-run feature films are an altogether different animal).

That's why I think Paul's problem may be the tape itself, or how it was recorded.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Rowan]

FCC Endorses Built-In Copy Controls

PCs, TVs, recorders, and other gear must recognize broadcast 'flag' that bans transmission.


Rita Chang, Medill News Service
Tuesday, November 04, 2003
WASHINGTON -- To the dismay of consumer advocates, the Federal Communications Commission has voted to mandate technology that prevents users from sharing copy-protected digital broadcasts.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,113285,src,ov,00.asp

[Fragmentary]

If I'm understanding the issue that Kingfish was having correctly, he has taped the show first and was attempting to convert his VHS to DVD. Is that right? If so, I don't see how there could be a copy protection stopping him. Digital to digital is one thing, but going analog to DVD is another. Unless he's recording to digital video... but I don't think there are too many people with a system like that in their home.

[Archangel]

At least we in North America's northern climes don't have to worry about this filesharing fiasco... :D

We pay a little tax on recording media that goes directly to the industry to make up for any money that they crap thier pants over losing.

[Darrell Lawrence]

Paul attempted a straight to DVD recording first.

That failed. (other shows and channels work)

So THEN he recorded his VHS copy to DVD which worked, but is not as good.

[Darth Marley]

The same "feature" that prevents a VHS to VHS copy can also prevent a VHS to DVD copy from working.
If it is digital cable or satellite, then a digital watermark might limit copying.

So far, the only scheme that will work around all counter-measures seems to be a Linux solution that diverts the "play" data stream to a coder/decoder to make a perfect copy free of any copy protection.

[Archangel]

The same "feature" that prevents a VHS to VHS copy can also prevent a VHS to DVD copy from working.
If it is digital cable or satellite, then a digital watermark might limit copying.

So far, the only scheme that will work around all counter-measures seems to be a Linux solution that diverts the "play" data stream to a coder/decoder to make a perfect copy free of any copy protection.
But you can get past the macrovision safety between VHS sources and destinations by getting a little transwitter gizmo. :D

[Darth Marley]

Yes, the VBI filter, I presume. I have never tried to work around such a thing.

Dawg, digital broadcasts can very well have such copy protection encoded in them.
I have not found any "smoking gun" reports yet, but it seems that the industry consortiums could put signal that will block recording on such broadcasts easily enough.

[Archangel]

But how long would it take for someone to figure out away around that? Legally, or illegally, it won't take to long.

[Fragmentary]

Yes, the VBI filter, I presume. I have never tried to work around such a thing.

Dawg, digital broadcasts can very well have such copy protection encoded in them.
I have not found any "smoking gun" reports yet, but it seems that the industry consortiums could put signal that will block recording on such broadcasts easily enough.
But that would then block DV recorders like TiVo. Blocking those services would cut into the overall number viewers and that's not going to happen.

[jewels]

Unless DV recorders have some sort of key that DVD recorders don't have.

[Darth Marley]

No, it can work like this; the digital info has a bit pattern set that allows no copies to be made from it. This allows the initial recording on a blank DVD, or DVR.
But when you try to move or copy the data, firmware in the DVD recorder notices the bits that say "already copied once" and make a coaster rather than a DVD.

[Fragmentary]

Going from an already burned copy that's true. But as long as you have the data on a hard drive of some sort, even a simple DV recorder, you can get to it. If you're willing to put in the effort.

[Darrell Lawrence]

From the ... *ahem* St. Paul Pioneer Press-

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/10935631.htm?1c

the problem *might* be within this article?

[Darth Marley]

Could be some kind of glitch.

I don't get why all of the DVRs on the market come bundled with some kind of bogus "service plan." Especially since there are pretty straightforward instructions on how to convert an X-Box in to a DVR without anything reporting upstream about what you have been recording.

CPRM is listed in a recent DVD recorder manual, but I do not see any stunning technical articles on google's page one of search hits.

For convenience, there is a Panasonic model DVD-R with DVR in the box, so you should be able to record to the hard drive, edit out commercials, then burn to disc without having to roll-your-own box.

[Mustex]

Me. SteveW. Kingfish. I know there is a few others out and about too.

As for me liking it, there's certain aspects I like.

Superscouts and anything involving them I can do without. Same for Z.

O.k., I apologize then.

[Mustex]

Sorry, I seriously didn't realize that G80 HAD fans, I thought that all the episodes but "Return of Starbuck" were universally hated. My mistake.

[Darth Marley]

Nothing is universally hated.

Andromeda is still on the air.

90210 ran for many seasons.

Tom Goes to the Mayor has an audience (though I wish they would all die!).

[BST]

Sorry, I seriously didn't realize that G80 HAD fans, I thought that all the episodes but "Return of Starbuck" were universally hated. My mistake.


That's ok, Mustex. G80 did have some good points that endeared fans to it but, overall, I think it's safe to say that it was a letdown after TOS.

Personally, I liked the motorcycles. I often thought that when we make the transition to personal 'flying machines' that it would be something of a hybrid - land/air capability and 'single passenger'.

[Darrell Lawrence]

I often thought that when we make the transition to personal 'flying machines' that it would be something of a hybrid - land/air capability and 'single passenger'.

...like Superman capes :D

[BST]

...like Superman capes :D

Now that would be a heck of a lot easier! ;)

[Mustex]

Listen to the audio ep OWD did... G-80's awful parts were a nightmare Apollo had. G-03 was a nightmare Troy had ;)

How about TOS was a happy dream that someone on TNS had, where the Cylons were easy to spot and kill, and Baltar was easy to convict. ;)

:Nsalute:

[Mustex]

This is also why I have taken my leave of this ONE SIDED posting board. When I first came here it was a haven for me and others to express our opinions of NUBSG.


We didn't like it but it came into fruition anyway.

Then when nu bsg fans emerged here. We were told to "tone our opinion" down, to have respect for the fans of the new.

Erstwhile the same consideration was NOT given to us.NEVER. These fans have been allowed to attack and berate, not only TOS, but us fans as well! Yet when we make a remotely negative comment, or not even then (ie my thread on what would endear tos fans to the new, which was my attempt at an olive branch) we are accussed of trying to instigate and start a fight! On top of that my posts were altered!

We TOS fans do not have a place here. Moore was successful at splitting the fan base. And Congratulations Colonial Fleets in allowing it to happen!

You will no longer have the honor of my posts here EVER. You have no honor at all!

So we can't post on your boards, but Kingfish is free to post on ours? Or do you claim RA as your own as well?

:Nsalute:

[Mustex]

I don't see why you couldn't do it with the new series as well. The only thing stoping fans from writing that particular kind of fanfic is having no interest. But it will happen, very soon I suspect. All it takes is creativity. No more than it takes to bend G80 to work with the original series. In fact, I would suspect that in the next few years, writing the kind of stories that reconcile old and new series will become the most popular type.


Not quite that easy, the physics are different. It's discouraging to write together two worlds where sound is muffled in space in one, and ships require manuevering rockets, and these rules don't apply in the other.

[Mustex]

I'm still interested in whether or not they are actually able to copy-protect a broadcast. I don't think it's possible.


Let me explain it as I understand it. They had this problem with Timothy McVeih's (spelling??) execution. Some relatives of his victims wanted to be witnesses, but couldn't go to where it was to be held. They had to transmit the image. The problem was that anyone who intercepted it would be within their legal rights to do so. I'm not sure what they ended up doing, but one possibility was to use a type of line with thousands of other signals to dig through. They couldn't prevent the person from keeping a copy they made by intercepting, but if they can prevent such interception or copying they're free to do so.

[Mustex]

That's ok, Mustex. G80 did have some good points that endeared fans to it but, overall, I think it's safe to say that it was a letdown after TOS.

Personally, I liked the motorcycles. I often thought that when we make the transition to personal 'flying machines' that it would be something of a hybrid - land/air capability and 'single passenger'.

I didn't like the motorcycles. I know TOS isn't the place to look for realism, but if it's going to fly at least give it longer wings that THAT.

[Darth Marley]

I'm still interested in whether or not they are actually able to copy-protect a broadcast. I don't think it's possible.


Poking around a bit: free-to-air broadcast, not yet.
FCC rules apparently mandate the new digital sets will be able to tell copy protected programming. VCRs and DVDs will have to have technology to read the signal and fail to operate.


There will always be a way around it.

[Fragmentary]

The thing that the FCC and the manufacturers will never be able to beat is that if they rely on software to prevent pirating, they will be competing with the same people who write the copy protection. The guys who build the walls are always going to leak the back doors. Unless there is a physical way of stopping the copying it will continue to happen.

[Centurion Draco]

Umm, is there any chance that the very fact that the broadcaster would try and prevent copying of this show while not bothering with many other 'oldies' possibly that there is a DVD release in the pipeline?

Gotta say that awful or not, I'd still buy it on release!
Same for the new show :Nsad:
Its not that they're that good, its that I'm so desperate for more BSG.

:cylon:

[kingfish]

Paul attempted a straight to DVD recording first.

That failed. (other shows and channels work)

So THEN he recorded his VHS copy to DVD which worked, but is not as good.



I had retaped the G-1980 marathon before purchasing the dvd recorder. Apparently you can use your vcr to tape off of cable but the recording can't be transferred with the new system the FCC must have implemented. On older recordings you can tranfered to dvd. On certain VHS prerecorded movies the same applies. Universal however copy protects all of their tapes including my two BG telemovies, Conquest of Earth and Mission Galactica. On a further note I have been corresponding with somebody in the dvd business and asked about the telemovies on dvd to which they stated they had no idea they even existed. Finally G-1980 isn't even coming to dvd as the time of this writing. I will keep everybody apprised.

[gmd3d]

Thanks Kingfish .
I have the TOS DVD set and would like to have the 80s to finish. :salute: :salute:

[repcisg]

I was going to make some smart ass remark about giving up watching TV, but another thought occurred to me. The TV industry still hasn’t figured out why the 18-26 year old male population has stopped watching TV. Now they want to drive guys like me away!

OK

So now I’ll really hit back!

From now on I will not buy a DVD or any other recording until it is in the discount bin. Just yesterday I saw several major movies in the 6.99 and 9.99 bin at my local store. So there it is, if I have to wait 25 years to get the wrong show, they can make it and wait two years before I’ll buy it!

Besides TV is not the only source of entertainment at night. :D