Sci-fi Fandom Really Out Of Control....

[martok2112]

I realize that this is very, very old hat to most people at the more respectable boards (CF,CA,Galactica 2003.net) but it is truly sad when one can only view the BBoards at Skiffy as nothing more than a place to get a good laugh.

(Sidebar...I must have missed something that would cause the listing of a certain url to be retranslated as *banned site* Could someone please enlighten me in a PM? -Martok)

Paranoid delusions by posters who wish to label fans of one version of BSG or the other as "Universal Studios Employees" if you have even the slightest affinity for the new show, or "Glen Larson Spies" if you are a solid TOS fan, while being old jokes, are still a sad review of science fiction fandom in general.

It is bad enough when one type of science fiction fan tries to put his/herself on a pedastal by claiming that they have more discerning tastes in what constitutes favorable science-fiction. The acquired arrogance is merely a compensation for a pitiful childhood, apparently having been beat up, or picked on by their peers (read: preps, jocks, drama queens, and the like) during their awkward youth , so such fans take it out on other sci-fi fans in an attempt to vie for some self-deluded sense of superiority.

But the delusional attitudes of quite a few sci-fi fans at Skiffy truly make sci-fi fandom a laughing stock in the general public's eye. No wonder that sci-fi fans as a collective are often referred to as "non-entities" in more real world oriented BBs. And I know more than one poster has seen this happen.

And then, I have seen some call for the end to infighting among fans of a particular sect of sci-fi, specifically Battlestar Galactica, who then turn around in the same post and attack the exact opposite of what they like about either Battlestar. (Stop the infighting, nu-Galactica is a ripoff.) or (Stop the infighting, TOS was inferior) That is a rather backhanded call to peace, and often disinclines many to acquiesce to the admonition. (Means: Hell no, we won't go!)

There are also rather biased claims at Skiffy that if you post something at CF or CA that speaks favorably of the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, you will earn the ire of TOS fans, and they will viciously attack you. (The same can probably be said of "site-who-must-not-be-named" in regard to TOS'ers who post there.) Maybe in a far less kinder past, regardless of where you stood. Today, however, if you irresponsibly start attacking the original show first, then start citing the virtues of what you like about the new show....then yes, you can definitely expect some flack. (Vice versa with TOS'ers possibly doing the same at "site-who-must-not-be-named")

And for those who would blindly attack the original show, then start praising the new one because they didn't have a concept about the new show's true origins, I have no sympathy.

However, if you state that you are a fan of TOS, and that in NO WAY does your praise of the new show come at the expense of the original...well, some will accept that you are sincere, and have no intention of slighting TOS fans with your comments.

But THERE ARE THOSE who take the stuff too personally anyway. In their eyes, anyone who praises, or even remotely favors the new show is a traitor to the loyalty of the original show. They want to cast aspersions to your loyalty. Conversely, anyone who trashes the new show, citing the supposed superiority of the classic show, is viewed by the strict mini-fans as someone who needs their "inner child" kicked to the curb and told to grow up. And then, EVERYONE has to have a wake up call about what it is to have LOYALTY to the things in life that REALLY matter. It doesn't matter how many times you try to explain to them that you would love to see a continuation of the classic show along with them, SOME (not all) members of the TOS only fandom simply write you off as something beneath their utter contempt. All the same, no matter how many times a TOS fan tries to say "Hey, we're glad you like the mini, and hope it is what you wanted. It's just not our cup of tea.", SOME (not all) pro-mini fans will simply write off the TOS'ers as killjoys throwing sour grapes about the success of the mini. (It's that whole "acquired arrogance" thing at work again.) The most visible aspect of this is at the Skiffy boards where (despite the so-called "moderating") it is basically a free fire zone of "basement dwelling mudslingers". Sour grapes abound, delusions run rampant, and immaturity is an accepted way of life.

Which of course leads to the question of what constitutes a TRUE fan of something. It is a question that in my opinion will never be fully resolved as long as people harbor narrow minded notions of loyalty regarding a grandfathered aspect of fandom. Now, let me clarify: Loyalty to the things that matter in life is NOT a narrow minded notion. Loyalty to family; loyalty to friends; loyalty to deity, royalty/government and country...those are quantifiable loyalties in the real world. Loyalty to a sports collective or a television show, whilst passionate, is often the FODDER of jokes! When "loyalties" come into question regarding such trivial things, a casual observer cannot help but make the most uproarious belly laugh of their lives. Mentions of loyalties in such things are probably best kept within the circles of the passion in question. Not tossed about like self-righteous flags to be snickered at by casual, indifferent observers.

There seemed to be a time (short lived, in the direction we're headed) that being a sci-fi fan could actually be a source of pride for us. But now, some of us are NO BETTER than the "in-crowds" that some of us had to endure during our formative years because of our petty bickering, mudslinging, spin doctoring, posturing, gossip-mongering, and oneupsmanship.

Various camps thrive within a single fandom of any given thing. With the Trek fans you have the Roddenberry Loyalists, the middle of the road Trek fans, the Star Wars converts, and the "as long as it looks and feels like Trek" fans. see this thread for my analysis:
http://boards.startrek.com/community/messages.html?;act=ST;f=13;t=33170744

In the Galactica fandom, it is no simpler:
TOS fans vehemently opposed to the new show and other views
TOS fans opposed to the new show, but open to other fans
NEW show fans vehemently opposed to TOS and other views
NEW show fans opposed to TOS, but open to other views
Fans of BOTH Shows.

It is nice when these camps can have friendly debates with one another about aspects of a given show.

It is when these debates turn into spiteful (often venom laced) arguments that the whole of sci-fi fandom is reduced to the "laughing stock" we try so desperately to avoid.

Sci-fi fandom likes to pride itself on looking toward more optimistic, and enlightened futures, just as the world tries to pride itself on more "enlightened" points of view existing today.

We are no closer to seeing the fruition of such things in our lifetime. Just as the world still has its problems of racial bigotry, disrcrimination, religious persecution, and other damnable aspects of REAL LIFE, so do sci-fi fandoms have their share of intolerance, inflexibility, and immaturity.

Fortunately, there are places like Colonial Fleets, Cylon Alliance, and Galactica 2003.net where, for the greater part, fans can present their points of view without too much fear of derision by opposing viewpoints, and a greater sense of maturity and civility prevails. But there are still those in the boards who would rather make those who oppose their views feel like the lowest form of daggit droppings for even existing.

And in such cases, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch on occasion.

But hey, I'm just a sci-fi fan like anyone else, equally guilty of some of the indictments I've stated above. I just want to see sci-fi fandom be a source of pride that can be presented to the general public in a good light.

Rant over, shields up, turbolasers charged!
Respectfully to all,
Martok2112

[Gemini1999]

Martok -

That was no "rant", it was a carefully thought out assessment of the situation! You managed to say what you want while keeping it neutral and respectful of the group as a whole.

Not bad for a Klingon..... ;)

Best always,
Bryan

[julix]

Martok....
I have to agree with Bryan on this...
You are diplomatic and respectful.......time has healed some of my wounds and I think you guys on the fleets know me as someone who would never put down or attack anyone else. It is hard for me when I see it happening. In the spirit of a great saying(not the situation)..."Why can't we all just get along". In my ideal world everyone would love and respect each other..get along, help each other...etc...I know this is unrealistic but it is my ideal none the less. I do admire and respect everyone's point of view(and we all have that right)...even if it is different then mine. We are all Sci- Fi fans and I have meet some of the most wonderful, incredible and intellegent people in my life on these boards.


I love ya man.........group hug

[martok2112]

GROUP HUG!!!! ((((((((((((EVERYONE)))))))))))))!!

Thank you, Gemini for your understanding. Thank you Julix for your support.

:salute:

Martok the mentally exhausted.
:)

[Archangel]

Martok, you are wise beyond your years. I have been to the Star Trek boards, though I no longer post there. With all the 'verbal' diarrhia that that freely gets spewed there you can bet that some schmuck will do one of two things

1. Going tooing to twist your words as though he were a politician
2. Going to personnally attack your view for no reason other his/her own entertainment.

It does get sickening after a while. I'll admit that a large part of my year long+ absence from this board was pretty much for the same reasons when shots were being fired about the mini. But at least the people here eventually grew up. Something that will never happen at ST.

You are very eloquent, that alone is a weapon that you can beat a person up with.

[thomas7g]

Good words Martok. And good replies.

I remember, the day before I became an admin here there was intense fights on this board. It was the same arguement. BG03 fans vs BG78 fans. This place was about to close. So I made a deal with Don, I would do what I could to keep this place from the daily explosions. But I found out that was an impossible task. Especially since everyday we we would get news from scifi that would get everyone angry all over again.

And I learned something. No matter which way you steer a forum that is blowing itself apart daily....no matter which course you choose...SOMEONE will be pissed at you. And they won't be alone. Most aren't bad people. Some are jerks. But most are good guys under other circumstances you would be calling a friend. But they will do there best to confound you. And it will be gutwrenching for the entire fanbase.

But if you had chosen any other path, it would have lead to the same problems. Just different people would be pissed at ya. So again you have are left with an angry infighting prone forum.

The battlestar galactica fanbase was fanatically divided. Each side was religiously self-righteous. It was impossible to manage. A conundrum.

Scifi fans demand to be listened to. Scifi fans demand that the Big Powers That Be please the fans. Yet they go fanatical and have fan wars in public, and basically make themselves look like angry mental institution inmates, IN PUBLIC. The big studio execx thought we were fanatics. Tons of BG fans discovering us for the first time thought we were fanatics. Non-BG fans thought we were fanatics. The online community thought were fanatics.

Is it any wonder why we weren't taken seriously?

There is much about fandom that is self destructive.:/:

[BST]

General Martok, SIR!! :salute:

Well said, my friend, very well said. I agree with Bryan, julix, Archangel, and Tom, you stated your feelings in a very level-headed fashion.

There is so much water that has passed under the bridge, that it's hard to know where to begin. For myself, I jumped into the fray during the "high-water" mark, forever etched into our memories as the "Clone Wars". It was a very bad time for many reasons but, the worst effect was not of the actual events but, the aftermath.

The *antics of Ted Gorospe* caused many of us -- (TOS'ers - if we are to use labels) -- to view ANYONE showing even the slightest amount of interest in the mini-series as someone who was worthy of our contempt and suspicion. Yes, we were very suspicious of those who would state such things as "been a long-time fan of TOS but, will view the mini-series on its own merits". Why?

Primarily because many of those championing for TOS's return, have been doing so for 25 years! We were salivating with anticipation for the story that Singer and DeSanto were going to present to us when it was all abruptly ripped away from us, by the events of 9/11 and the subsequent maneuvering by Sci-Fi and "company". It was that back-door maneuvering and the pronouncements that followed that placed us on the defensive. We realized that we were not going to be getting the show that we wanted and in some cases, fought for, for 2-1/2 decades and to the vaunted powers that be, it really didn't matter, to them, how we took that news. At one point, Ron Moore wrote a letter which, in some interpretations, told anyone who liked TOS and DID NOT agree with his new plan, to "take a flying leap". (The actual remark was the infamous "popcorn" remark -- "the popcorn is in another aisle".) The firestorm of protests that followed were unbelievable. Some, though muted to an extent, continue to this day. Those remarks, from Moore and those who followed him, earned our enmity and disgust. We honestly wanted to have nothing to do with that show or the people that wanted to "give that show a chance". For us, it would never be Battlestar Galactica. That mentality continued for the balance of 2003, culminating with the airing of the mini-series. (Notice that on the Forum home page, the high mark for online users was the 2nd night of the mini-series).

During that time, however, there was an effort from behind-the-scenes, to be more receptive of those that enjoyed the mini-series (only) and that enjoyed both (TOS and the mini-series). It took some time for that effort to gather critical mass but, the environment that you see prevailing on Colonial Fleets and Cylon Alliance is a testament to that effort. It took me a while to warm up to the idea but, a gentle nudging from a certain retired admin caused me to consider that idea as a viable alternative to the verbal bloodletting. So, I stepped back, considered the option and decided that it could be no worse than what was happening at the time. I agreed to give this effort an opportunity, given that I did not have to compromise my principles -- my preference for a TOS based show/movie,etc. It has worked wonderfully. There was also another effort, though, that made an even bigger splash -- CFF.

The Colonial Fan Force was, in my opinion, the most wonderful happenstance to have occurred to Galactica Fandom. It proved, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that folks who enjoyed BOTH shows actually meant it AND they ponied up their own money to prove it! It was a very humbling experience. I began to view these folks in a new light -- I started to become more tolerant, and in a sense, grew up.

I also realized another thing, that no matter how peaceful it may be, there will ALWAYS be a pot-stirrer, someone who merely posts an item in an effort to elicit a response (usually heated). People who act in this fashion do, primarily, to be 'center of attention'. In some ways they remind us of the "class a$$" of our youth -- just looking for attention. I find myself usually ignoring this type of person, only occasionally posting a response. Usually, though, I feel more pity than anything else for this type of person.

In the end and after a rather wild trip through the equivalent of "fandom hell", I have found peace here at CF, CA, Battlestar Rycon, and BSG CLub (although, I don't get over to that wonderful corner of the galaxy as much as I'd like, sorry Nathan) because I --

* don't compromise my feelings,wants,desires;

* respect folks who share my feelings as well as those whose feelings,preferences differ from mine;

* don't sweat the small stuff;

* stay away from the Skiffy Outhouse (although improvements have been made to Skiffy's bboard system, the moderation that needs to be done, isn't being done.)

* and most importantly, HAVE FUN! When coming to these boards stops being fun, that's when I stop coming to these boards.


Steve, hopefully I've shed a bit of light, even if only that from a match stick, on some of the issues that you raised. You know where you stand with me, my friend.

:)

BST


btw, The *antics of Ted Gorospe* are what earned the "banned site" its current status.

[julix]

BST....
Thanks for your post it gave me the backgound I missed out on....I appreciate it! I am not sorry I missed out on it, people on the board refer to it as a dark time....but it is good to know about it. You stated things quite well yourself...as I have always found it to be with you......thanks :salute:

[BST]

BST....
Thanks for your post it gave me the backgound I missed out on....I appreciate it! I am not sorry I missed out on it, people on the board refer to it as a dark time....but it is good to know about it. You stated things quite well yourself...as I have always found it to be with you......thanks :salute:


Thanks, julix. :)

That is a good term for it -- "a dark time". It was that and to some extent still haunts us to this day although, we are trying very hard to step outside its shadow!

BST

:)

[Gemini1999]

BST....
Thanks for your post it gave me the backgound I missed out on....I appreciate it! I am not sorry I missed out on it, people on the board refer to it as a dark time....but it is good to know about it. You stated things quite well yourself...as I have always found it to be with you......thanks :salute:

Julix -

I joined the board at the tail end of those dark days - most of the major BSG sites were like war zones. It was very daunting to the newbie or casual observer. I did some lurking for quite some time before I first posted - I didn't know what kind of reception that newcomers would get at the time. It seemed like the "survivors" of the Clone Wars were a very tight and wary group back then.

You're kind of lucky - you came in at a quiet time and have plenty of time to acclimate yourself and get to know people before the new BSG series airs - that's probably when old tensions will flare up a bit, but hopefully not like before.

I know that there are people out there that criticize Colonial Fleets for being a "happy, happy, joy, joy" place because we tend to welcome a wide variety of fans, but still have TOS as the common core of the site. We're damned if we do one thing and then damned if we do another. You can't please everyone.... I like to think that the only people that have a hard time of things around here are the ones that like to stir up trouble. We've got a pretty low tolerance for that around here - but that's the price to be paid so the majority of the membership can enjoy what CF has to offer.

I hope you enjoy your time at Fleets and stick around with us for the long haul - no matter which version of BSG you enjoy most (or both).

Have fun and happy posting!
Bryan

[julix]

Bryan....
Thanks....I love it here and plan on staying as long as I am welcome. I am a TOS fan and want nothing more then to see a continuation Movie. I am a CFF contributor and letter writer. In the same breath, I say that I am trying to be open to the mini, I had problems with it and have tried to have my reason out weigh my passion. It was painful to have that version of Battlestar come out and not the return of my heros. But I have always respected the views of others, I believe that everyone is entitled to feel as they do. I also am glad to have tolerance and respect that seems to be here now....we do have fun and that is a very good thing.

Thanks Bryan! :)

[martok2112]

Thank you all very much for your replies and insights, thus far.

Everyone has stated their views elqoquently. (UGh...my sleep schedule is so skewed that I get my q's and p's mixed up on the screen...agrrgghh!) BST, and Thomas7g, you have both provided excellent insight as to the efforts of those who have also sought peace between the fandoms, and have also enlightened me about the nature of certain elements of "site-who-must-not-be-named." (I like that monikier...must be my Harry Potter fandom shining through. :D) that threaten that peace "without conscience, or remorse, or perceived delusions of morality." (Paraphrased from ALIEN :D)

Julix, you have proven to be an angel of light with your views and efforts to be open to all points of view, at the risk of great personal pain. I deeply admire people like you, Rowan, Sorrell, BST, Thomas7g, Dawg, Muffit, Archangel, Gemini, and many others who are kindred to you in spirit. I am proud to call all of you FRIENDS.

I regard EVERYONE on this board, and at Cylon Alliance, as my friends, regardless of where we stand in the BSG universe. I know that there are some who do not reciprocate my sentiment, for that very same reason. To them, I am heretic, blasphemer, and all around daggit's bottom. But so be it. If anything, I respect their passion for that which they love, even if it has a few costs that need not be incurred. What they love is what I love, but my love does not BLIND me to other ideas. It does not BLIND me to my friends.

I think that there are plenty here and at the Alliance who know the light in the heart of the matter, and are mature enough to realize that there are far more constructive ways to bring about peace in the fandom, and to restore that which we love...the classic Battlestar Galactica. To all of you, you have my undying friendship, respect, and comraderie.

But know this: I have NO illusions whatsoever that this thread will entirely bring out peace throughout the fandom. NO illusions whatsoever. It is a nice thing to hope for, but I entertain no certainties that it will ever be so. As long as traits like intolerance, ignorance, inflexibility, immaturity, petty bickering, mudslinging, spin doctoring, posturing, gossip-mongering, and oneupsmanship.exist (within ANY fandom. not just sci-fi as Impreszive rightly pointed out at Cylon Alliance) then true peace may simply be a fleeting hope.

When I posted this same topic over at Cylon Alliance, I felt it more appropriate to place it in the "Things that really P*** me off" thread. It's viewings there are only half of those here at the Fleets, but at least it has also gotten positive replies (thus far) from those who have responded. I am thankful that here at the Fleets it is also thus. It is a testament to the reasonabllity of many, and for that I :salute: you all.

Of course, (and I say this without arrogance) there are those who might simply be intimidated by a topic such as "SCI FI FANDOM OUT OF CONTROL". Perhaps they might be disinclined to take a good hard look at an objective view of sci-fi fandom from someone (who stands with MANY others) who really loves it, and finds shame in those aspects which give our beloved fandom the wrong light to be presented in to the public eye.


I do NOT speak of elements such as fans who go to conventions wearing elaborately, and imaginitively designed costume replicas of their favorite characters (such is known as CosPlay). I do NOT speak of those who make unique hand gestures, or spew platitudes mentioned in their favorite shows/movies. Those are fans who are having a good time...plain and simple...and not at the expense of anyone else. That, to me, is one of the most ENDEARING things about sci-fi fandom. (I've never really donned a costume per se, but I can make hand gestures and spew platitiudes and dialogue with the best of 'em. ;) )

I DO speak of the elements I stated in my intitial topic. That is what presents sci-fi, and other fandoms (be it anime, fantasy, sports, cars, etc.) in an unfavorable light. It is time that those elements of fandom woke up and smelled the fumarillos, and stopped sniffing the plant vapor. (I realize that may sound completely wrong, as the Surgeon General has determined that smoking can be bad for your health...but I think you know whereof I speak in my misplaced priorities. :D )


I thank you all for the support and understanding you have shown this thread; the very thing I have hoped for. I tried very hard to make sure that this Topic was as impartial and balanced as possible. (Heck, I wrote it out on WordPad before I posted it.) And trust me, a few days ago, I almost posted the same topic with MUCH MUCH harsher light at both CF and CA. Thanks be to the wisdom of a dear friend on this board who talked me out of it in mid text. (You know who you are. ;) ) I could not, in good conscience, post such a topic without taking a good, long, hard look at myself, and without indicting myself in some of those things I have brought before the court.

I am guilty of some mudslinging, I am guilty of posturing, I am guilty of ignorance, I am guilty of petty-bickering, and guilty of occasional immaturity.

I came onto the Skiffy boards at a time when the Clone Wars (truly the DARKEST time in the whole of Galactica fandom) were raging. I even got ACCUSED by some of the most immature, and self-deluded people that trolled there of being a Clone of someone else because of my views regarding the new show. I asked them to provide solid proof of my "supposed" cloning. They could not. Instead, they challenged me to respond by personal email to their handles. I did, and they openly denied that I did not. More posturing and stirring of felgercarb. (There, dear friends, was the PARAMOUNT of immaturity of such trolls.)
Those heartless people who incited the Clone Wars really need to have their heads examined, and then donated to science for a study on "how NOT to be a sci-fi fan".

After a while, I was regarded by many as a voice of reason at the Skiffy boards, making the same calls to peace that I have since the Clone Wars were rending the fandom asunder. For a time thereafter, I had extremely limited access to the internent (in which limited time, I took the opportunity to join Colonial Fleets and Cylon Alliance.) Ultimately, my posts had ceased at Skiffy, simply because I was working on Dark Exodus and did not have the leisure time to address/post views on any board.

Now that I have had a good long look at Skiffy's boards, I find that the voices of reason now get derided by the voices of overwhelming insanity. 'Tis truly a madhouse over there. It was probably for that reason, and for the reasons of those inflexible, intolerant, ignorant, immature, petty bickering, mudslinging, spin doctoring, posturing, gossip-mongering, and one-up seeking entities that do exist even on the more respectable boards ( I now remove "site-who-must-not-be-named" from the respectable list...at least until someone respectable takes control of that site) that I decided to post this. It is they who cast unfavorable light on these boards.



I don't seek revolution. I don't seek rebellion. I don't seek increased hostility.



I seek only awakening. I seek only peace.


I stand before you all , a humble fan of science fiction,
Martok2112 :salute: