Battlestar vs Battlestar: The space battles

[thomas7g]

Gather ye round for the battle to welll...end...

Oh forget that... its just a poll.
:D


Judging by TODAY's standards, which Battlestar pilot looked better in space?

Did 25 years of technology improve the quality of the space battles beyond the skill of the original artists?


This is from the point of view of an absolute newbie to the genre of science fiction. Which would HE like better? Or She. Not which YOU like more, but which do you think appeals more to a modern audience that has never seen a single episode of any Battlestar show?

:eek:

Now... the rules for this thread:





1) We are talking from the point of view of someone who has never heard of either show.


2) 25 years will not be taken into account. The pilot episodes will be taken side by side as they are. Remember, the pilot is 25 years old, but the movie had little recycling of footage. And the special effects were better in the pilot movie. But the new show has 25 years of technology, computers, and some damn good artists too. (Plus one guy who can give you a great deal on car parts!)

3) The criteria will include spaceship designs, special effects during space scenes, music, and basic choreography of the scenes.

4) No talk will be made of plot, or character changes. We are only talking about spaceships, space battles, and other such effects. Anyone who brings up starbucks genitalia switch or some other non-special effect felgercarb, or is a butthead, will have their vote discounted and maybe even deleted!!!!

5) Remember. This is just for fun. So lets keep agendas and other such felgercarb out of this.






So on a scale of 1-9, where 1 is where the original is best, and 9 the new show is best, how do you vote?

[Lusitan]

I love the Original design and i find the new one , well, let's say not bad. Only thing is i liked the new ones firepower, i never saw the old one spiting fire like that.

I voted the second option. IMO, if both models are used with the same technology, the Original is way more impressive and scary.

[julix]

I love the old design always have the, Viper was my favorite and still is.....but you asked what would someone who has never seen the shows like.....I have no idea! I would think most people would go for updated version with CGI and all that but can't really know for sure only speculate................. :)

[martok2112]

Ok...looking at this as a total nubie...I would still have to put them both on par.

If I were to watch the original BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, and judge its special effects for the Galactica herself, I would have to say that it was top class production at the time. I would have to say my favorite shot of the Galactica is her flank speed bank as she soars away from the Cylon Ambush in SASW. The close up shots of the Galactica's underbelly were also some of the best effects work for a television series. You got a sense of just how big the Galactica was.

Now, looking at the new Galactica, in the realm of CGI, I would have to say that I like it too. Retractable landing bays were a big plus. Although it is easy to confuse some profiles of this new ship with an MC-80 Mon Calamari star cruiser from Return of the Jedi. :D I loved the firepower that the new Galactica spat out at the Cylon Raiders. And the shot of the new Galactica surrounded by the rag-tag fleet was simply classic.

I hope I answered within the spirit of the poll in question.

Respectfully,
Martok2112 :salute:

[The 14th Colony]

This comes from my opinions with the hypothesis that I had never seen either, and was just shown glimpes of the space scenes and told to choose which one to watch.

I say the new, but some of the old prevails. The new battlestar design is impressive in contours and design, but it doesn't give hint to the size of the battlestar itself. In the original the Galactica and the other battlestars looked huge, they appeared massive, you see them and think, that looks like it's a mile long give or take. But the new battlstar design, though attactive in its curvacious design, looks like a much smaller ship to me,
IMHO. The same with the basestars in the new, they don't give enough of a visual clue to visually comprehend their size, whereas the old basestars looked massive from the outset. Large spaceships are instantly impressive. All concern for plot and characters aside, when I went to the video store and looked at tape boxes of sci-fi movies I'd never seen, a picture on the box of a tiny spaceship implying the setting of the film would always lose to a picture of a massive space warship.

The battle scenes in the new look better with the advance in sfx technology. The explosions look and sound more realistic. People are attracted to that more. The new show doesn't have robotic Cylons (other than brief glimpses), and robots attract viewers in most markets, more than non robots. So that's a vote for the new anda vote for the old in this paragraph.

Going back to the space scense and battles, the new does look better. The Cylon fighters move better (I did love that scene where they were being chased by vipers and flipped 360 degrees completely around to face their pursuers. Such a movement is entirely possible in space and I wonder why no other sci-fi films ever depicted such a manuever before. I know I always did when I played with my toy ships and choroegraphed dogfights with my hands.) and the battle choreography was slightly more impressive. Although, sci-fi fans love lasers, and space dogfights lack a lot of oooh-ahhhh value with silent invisible bullets being fired instead of bright powerful looking lasers streaking from ship to ship.

But on the other hand, the new had a lot of wild and twisting camera turns following the ships and that was more impressive than the seemingly horizontal perspective of the camera in the old. I think that the manuevers in the new would attract new viewers more, as it would me.

Here is something else that is both a plus and a minus for the new. In the old most if not all of the dogfight scenes showed the fighters close up which kept the space of the area contained in your mind. But the new had a lot of far off shots showing the fighters much smaller and far away from the camera, and that gave off more of the impression that space is a really big place and the battles were happening in a larger and lonlier void. I don't know if that made complete sense. The vastness of space is more impressive in the new, but I think that viewers enjoy it more when it's up close and personal. On the other hand, the new had the wild camera movements and ship manuevers...

My don't know, but mesa thinks that new viewers would be more inclined to choose to watch the new over the old based on seeing the space scenes.

I voted: Usually the new show was better.

[nccdee]

I am not sure what your asking but I voted that the new Galactica looks better all the time. But that is to be expected: better CGI, visual effects (space background), cooler shots.

On the other hand, there is something to be said about the rugged look. I like the old Galactica, it reminds me of a WWII battleship (more detailed). I can see that if this was a real ship, the TOS and Mini would match as an evolution of the battlestar. The models of the Galactica and all the other ships still hold up today. Just because there is a newer way of creating ships (CGI) does mean the old way is any less effective (Lord of the Rings used both real models and CGI and it worked very well).

I think it unfair to compare the special effects because how technology has changed. When we watched TV back then, everything look pretty good on TV. Today, TV sets now show a much sharger image and unfortunately the outlines of the special effects can be seen (ie the pixal-box surrounding the fighters or ships). I would think this is something that could have been cleaned up (is it on the DVD?) over the years.

In the TOS, music was used to build the excitement in the battle scenes, the mini used silence to build tension. If I remember correctly, Spielberg used no music for the first 20 minute in Saving Private Ryan. I would say it work in both shows because each were setting different tones.

I guess my point to all this is the Mini was setting a tone and style uniquely different that TOS (from music, space images, space dynamics, sounds and so on). Everything has to be taken into account, not just the plot. Its about the experience.

nccdee

[cobrastrikelead]

I am just a fan of the original ship.

[Lusitan]

...I think it unfair to compare the special effects because how technology has changed....

That's why i tryed to imagine both ships filmed with the same technology. If i put them in the same situation, i think the original would look alot better than the new one.
As for the firepower, i guess they just could not do it back then, having all those weapons firing at the same time. If the original design was used today, showing all that firepower, if i was a cylon i'll think 3 times before engage that ship.

[martok2112]

That's why i tryed to imagine both ships filmed with the same technology. If i put them in the same situation, i think the original would look alot better than the new one.
As for the firepower, i guess they just could not do it back then, having all those weapons firing at the same time. If the original design was used today, showing all that firepower, if i was a cylon i'll think 3 times before engage that ship.

AGREED!

And now that I understand the question better...If I were to see the new Galactica model filmed with yesterday's tech.... I would still have to go with the Classic model.

Martok2112

[thomas7g]

The old show laser bolts were hand painted animation with film exposure to get the effect. Very high labor costs. So each laser bolt cost $1000 each back then.

Now its much cheaper to do.
:)
:D

[braxiss]

the look of the original is the best to me, i just didn't like all the holes in the hull

of the new girl

[thomas7g]

I don't really consider the quality of the film clarity to be something to really consider.


To me, the filming of the original ships look just as good if not better than the new show. That is mostly cause I like how a physical model looks better than I do a CG model. VG models tend to be less detailed. There are less pieces. One of the things that ads scale is when you have teeny tiny details and big detailed parts together on the same ship. That makes everything look BIG. CG models tend to have lots of flat pieces with textures applied. Also the more detail on a cg model, the more time and money it takes to render every scene the model is in. But a real model isn't limited by that. Add all the detail you want, it doesn't effect camera time for the rest of the show's life.

So to me, on the whole I prefer the old models. They just look better. With the possible exception of the new "old" viper. That is a really nice design. The new Cylons Raiders are too...styly. Like Cadillac fins. And I didn't like the merging of a toaster with the Batplane look. I'm also not a fan of the new Galactica look.


The one thing I think the new show is better at is explosions and other special effects. When you seen an explosion, you can actually damage the model. You can show bodies and bits flying. So visually that is MUCH better.

The new show also has better camera movent. Noted the camera moved TOO much. But there really was a degree of freedom we have never had before.

I think probably the one thing that really makes me enjoy the old stuff over the new is the music and editng. I felt like I was more a part of a squadron having a wild adventure. The way it was shown, the old versions aimed more for fun. So I had more fun.

Anyways that's my two cents.

:)

[Ethan]

Liked about the old:

;)

* Galactica and Basestar Bigness. Detail on the old models gave it the authentic look.

* Character and personality. I know this comment may tread on thin ice, but I think that mech elements have just as much character as other elements of the show. Tech can develop just like a story line. I thought the new battlestar reminded me to much of a mix between a turtle and an armadillo. I think the banded effect of the cgi tiles could have been just a little bit better. I am also a total fan of the forward view screen/window/display. Whether it is realistic or not, the forward veiw display adds texture to the ship and lends the ship the ability to help develop the story.

Disliked about the old:

:erk:

* To much repitition. I nicer budget would have helped tremendously.

* Bulky cylon costumes. It was obvious to me that there were real actors in the suits and that they were having a really hard time moving around. C-threepio moved smoother than they did.

Liked about the new:

:cool:

* Movement in space. The pivoting movements were the absolute right touch. I would love to see TOS ships moving like that. The pivoting of the fighters was right on and the Pivoting of the Galactica as it was leading the other ships out to hyperspace jump was graceful and beautiful. Almost like Vanna showing me the prize I'd like to win.

* New Cylon droid/robotics. Smooth. Need more of them. I kept thinking of the Matrix movie where the agent says "more" and copies come out of nowhere. I kept saying more while I was watching the new BSG and wished that more of the Cylon robotics would have been shown.

Disliked about the new:

:wtf:

* See my previous armadillo/turtle comment. I half expected the head of the new Galactica to be sucked back into the body somehow. I do believe however that the retractable landing bays were just fine.

* Bullets? Please . . . Lets not go there. Laser fire and taser pulses still look higher tech, . . . besides, even though Space is a very . . . big . . . place, I still think the litter from bullets would cause some problems in large single fighter battles.

Thats all I can say at this point.

Ethan

:salute:

[Ethan]

Besides, I liked the snare drum bongo drums in the background. It set the right kind of tension.

Ethan

[Lusitan]

... And I didn't like the merging of a toaster with the Batplane look.

Note to self : Never drink cofee and read Thomas coments at the same time.

Cleaning the keyboard now...

:LOL: :LOL:

[nccdee]

... And I didn't like the merging of a toaster with the Batplane look.
:)

Certainly not an original idea for the Cylon. Take a look here http://www.shipschematics.net/bsg/images/cylon/raider_cylon_mk4.jpg

nccdee

[martok2112]

Certainly not an original idea for the Cylon. Take a look here http://www.shipschematics.net/bsg/images/cylon/raider_cylon_mk4.jpg

nccdee


Now THAT is an awesome design for a Cylon Raider!

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[martok2112]

NOW! If you want to see the Classic Galactica rendered in spectacular CGI Animation, all you need to do is get the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA videogame for Playstation 2/Xbox. The cutscenes in that game will definitely send chills up EVERY GALACTICA fan's spine. The cutscenes even have a big screen quality that would've looked great for a continuation movie.

Googly eyed,
Martok2112

[justjackrandom]

* Bullets? Please . . . Lets not go there. Laser fire and taser pulses still look higher tech, . . . besides, even though Space is a very . . . big . . . place, I still think the litter from bullets would cause some problems in large single fighter battles.

I'm not sure this is really on topic, but that being said, I'm not convinced that the G03/04 weapons are actually firing solid projectiles. I can also make a reasonably good argument that TOS space weapons were firing solid projectiles.

Visually I think that the G03/04 weapons fit the nature of space combat as the production team envisioned it better than long, slow moving beams, as well as fitting better visually with their ideas of realism to the tech level they are trying to portray.

my tuppence JJR

[justjackrandom]

* Bullets? Please . . . Lets not go there. Laser fire and taser pulses still look higher tech, . . . besides, even though Space is a very . . . big . . . place, I still think the litter from bullets would cause some problems in large single fighter battles.

I'm not sure this is really on topic, but that being said, I'm not convinced that the G03/04 weapons are actually firing solid projectiles. I can also make a reasonably good argument that TOS space weapons were firing solid projectiles.

Visually I think that the G03/04 weapons fit the nature of space combat as the production team envisioned it better than long, slow moving beams, as well as fitting better visually with their ideas of realism to the tech level they are trying to portray.

my tuppence JJR

[bsg1fan1975]

okay. here's my two cubits from a newbie's stand point.

The classic Galactica was way much better. It looked like a ship should instead of a floating garbage pile! Heck, even the cylon ships were cool! The vipers were better designed and launched the way a jet would! The characters blended better with each other! The music made you feel like you were part of the show. Things were hinted at and not making it look like a cheap porno ripoff! :)


End of my donation of thought! :LOL: :devil:

[thomas7g]

Certainly not an original idea for the Cylon. Take a look here http://www.shipschematics.net/bsg/images/cylon/raider_cylon_mk4.jpg

nccdee
That was pretty nice!

But I would lessen the forward pointiness of the wings. :D

[thomas7g]

Oh and remember. No PLOT references please. :)