OT: Paul Harvey on Mel Gibson's "The Passion"

[jewels]

Thought you all might like these reviews of Mel's controversial movie:

Paul Harvey Comments on "The Passion" by Mel Gibson

The majority of the media are complaining about this movie. Now Paul Harvey
tells "The rest of the story" and David Limbaugh praises Gibson. Most people
would wait and see a movie before giving the reviews that have been issued by
the reporters trying to tell all of us what to believe.

Paul Harvey's words:

I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been invited to
a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had also read all
the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and owe much of my
own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long, deeply held aversion
to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic
thought, language or actions.

I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion", held in Washington DC and
greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically Washingtonian,
with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to look beyond you, having
an agenda beyond the words.. The film was very briefly introduced, without
fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the gripping opening scene in the
Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and tender portrayal of the earthly
ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way
of the cross, the encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross,
until the final scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was
an encounter, unlike anything I have ever experienced.


In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic
triumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional
reaction within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth
of my children. Frankly, I will never be the same. When the film concluded,
this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC
were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a
dry eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film
was now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully
inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the
kind that makes heaven touch earth.


One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A brutalized,
wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross. His
mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him, she
flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road
outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall, she
was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her with
intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us through the
screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words taken from
the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelations. Suddenly, the
purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that earlier in the film had
been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all over His body,
became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for love.

At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a question
and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather
diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive. The
questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even
though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by
some to be "anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view"
this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law
professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand and
responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can
insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It
doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus" I
agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this
powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It
faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive
and profoundly engaging way.

Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film or have
another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a "Christian" film, in
the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as
followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human, beautiful story that will
deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound work of art. Yes, its
producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained faithful to the
Gospel text; if that is no longer acceptable behavior than we are all in
trouble. History demands that we remain faithful to the story and Christians
have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the greatest story
ever told and that its message is for all men and women. The greatest right
is the right to hear the truth.


We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to
which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a
Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history of the
world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted it and
used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the message,
but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's
filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion."

It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to do everything I
can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about "The Passion." You
will be as well. Don't miss it!

[jewels]

This is a commentary by DAVID LIMBAUGH about
Mel Gibson's very controversial movie regarding Christ's crucifixion. It,
too, is well worth reading.

MEL GIBSON'S passion for "THE PASSION"

How ironic that when a movie producer takes artistic license with historical
events, he is lionized as artistic, creative and brilliant, but when another
takes special care to be true to the real-life story, he is vilified. Actor-
producer Mel Gibson is discovering these truths the hard way as he is having
difficulty finding a United States studio or distributor for his upcoming
film, "The Passion," which depicts the last

12 hours of the life of Jesus Christ.

Gibson co-wrote the script and financed, directed and produced the movie. For
the script, he and his co-author relied on the New Testament Gospels of
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as well as the diaries of St. Anne Catherine
Emmerich (1774-1824) and Mary of Agreda's "The City of God."

Gibson doesn't want this to be like other sterilized religious epics. "I'm
trying to access the story on a very personal level and trying to be very
real about it." So committed to realistically portraying what many would
consider the most important half-day in the history of the universe, Gibson
even shot the film in the Aramaic language of the period. In response to
objections that viewers will not be able to understand that language, Gibson
said, "Hopefully, I'll be able to transcend the language barriers with my
visual storytelling; if I fail, I fail, but at least it'll be a monumental
failure."

To further insure the accuracy of the work, Gibson has enlisted the counsel
of pastors and theologians, and has received rave reviews. Don Hodel,
president of Focus on the Family, said, "I was very impressed. The movie is
historically and theologically accurate." Ted Haggard, pastor of New Life
Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., and president of the National Evangelical
Association, glowed: "It conveys, more accurately than any other film, who
Jesus was."

During the filming, Gibson, a devout Catholic, attended Mass every morning
because "we had to be squeaky clean just working on this." From Gibson's
perspective, this movie is not about Mel Gibson. It's bigger than he is. "I'm
not a preacher, and I'm not a pastor," he said. "But I really feel my career
was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost was working through me on this
film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to
evangelize."

Even before the release of the movie, scheduled for March 2004, Gibson is
getting his wish. "Everyone who worked on this movie was changed. There were
agnostics and Muslims on set converting to Christianity...[and] people being
healed of diseases." Gibson wants people to understand through the movie, if
they don't already, the incalculable influence Christ has had on the world.
And he grasps that Christ is controversial precisely because of WHO HE IS -
GOD incarnate. "And that's the point of my film really, to show all that
turmoil around him politically and with religious leaders and the people, all
because He is Who He is."

Gibson is beginning to experience first hand just how controversial Christ
is. Critics have not only speciously challenged the movie's authenticity, but
have charged that it is disparaging to Jews, which Gibson vehemently
denies. "This is not a Christian vs. Jewish thing. '[Jesus] came into the
world, and it knew him not.' Looking at Christ's crucifixion, I look first at
my own culpability in that." Jesuit Father William J. Fulco, who translated
the script into Aramaic and Latin, said he saw no hint of anti-Semitism in
the movie. Fulco added, "I would be aghast at any suggestion that Mel Gibson
is anti-Semitic." Nevertheless, certain groups and some in the mainstream
press have been very critical of Gibson's "Passion."

The New York Post's Andrea Peyser chided him: "There is still time, Mel, to
tell the truth." Boston Globe columnist James Carroll denounced Gibson's
literal reading of the biblical accounts. "Even a faithful repetition of the
Gospel stories of the death of Jesus can do damage exactly because those
sacred texts themselves carry the virus of Jew hatred," wrote Carroll. A
group of Jewish and Christian academics has issued an 18-page report slamming
all aspects of the film, including its undue emphasis on Christ's passion
rather than "a broader vision." The report disapproves of the movie's
treatment of Christ's passion as historical fact.

The moral is that if you want the popular culture to laud your work on
Christ, make sure it either depicts Him as a homosexual or as an everyday
sinner with no particular redeeming value (literally). In our anti-Christian
culture, the blasphemous "The Last Temptation of Christ" is celebrated
and "The Passion" is condemned. But if this movie continues to affect people
the way it is now, no amount of cultural opposition will suppress its force
and its positive impact on lives everywhere. Mel Gibson is a model of faith
and courage.

[Sycorax]

Great Posts! :thumbsup:

I plan on taking my mother to see it......if I can find it when it comes out.

[jewels]

if you go to either the fan site or the official site for the movie they have theater listings, they are'nt the most complete things in the universe (they listed 3 in Cincinnati, but don't ask me which Showcase goes by Showcase 12. :rolleyes:

[shiningstar]

Jewels thank you for posting BOTH of those reviews. :thumbsup:

[Raymar3d]

Thanks Jewels!

I have only one thing to say to people who call it anti-semetic, or blame any group for crucifying Jesus:

Christians believe that Christ was there to take the sins of all men onto himself, so that those who would believe in him would be saved. Therefore, all of us are responsible for putting him on that cross, and to anyone who would say another is responsible, that person is deluding themselves and saying they are not also sinners.

We all did it. And, we still do it, even though we know we did it. We aren't perfect, we're human. Christ's sacrifice makes us perfect in the eyes of God, because he took the punishment. The wage of sin is death. Christ died and was resurrected, he died for our sin so that we might live.

Ken

[shiningstar]

I'm glad that you posted BOTH reviews. I'm jewish and I have
no problem with someone making a movie that is true to the
christian scripture.

THere is not and never has been any proof that Mel Gibson
was or is in anyway ANTISEMITIC.

[shiningstar]

I'm glad that you posted BOTH reviews. I'm jewish and I have
no problem with someone making a movie that is true to the
christian scripture.

THere is not and never has been any proof that Mel Gibson
was or is in anyway ANTISEMITIC.


Believe it or not I encountered more Racism, and antisemitism etc........
at the Democratic National Convention .................. and all my 'former'
acquaintances wonder why I am NOW a Registered Republican ................

PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!!!

[Sycorax]

Very VERY well said Raymar! couldnt agree with you more.
I tend to personalize the sacrifice of Jesus. I am the reason he went to the cross although he offers the free gift of salvation to all of us. I'm looking forward to seeing The Passion thursday, although I will be doing this alot: :cry: :cry: :cry:

The Antisemetic argument makes NO sense. The bible itself says the good news comes first to the Jew, then the gentile. and God plays no favorites. I never once heard a Christian talk negative-critically about the Jews. Infact, I know of a Christain who hung out with some Jewish people during one of their religous celebrations and he had a Great time.

Hey Shiningstar! welcome to the Republican party, same here. :thumbsup: :)

are most Jews Republican? I would think so seeing as how Republicans usually lean to the side of Israel, and the Dems always prefer the Palesinteans. Not only that, polls clearly show that Republicans are much more religous. (generally speaking).

[shiningstar]

Very VERY well said Raymar! couldnt agree with you more.
I tend to personalize the sacrifice of Jesus. I am the reason he went to the cross although he offers the free gift of salvation to all of us. I'm looking forward to seeing The Passion thursday, although I will be doing this alot: :cry: :cry: :cry:

The Antisemetic argument makes NO sense. The bible itself says the good news comes first to the Jew, then the gentile. and God plays no favorites. I never once heard a Christian talk negative-critically about the Jews. Infact, I know of a Christain who hung out with some Jewish people during one of their religous celebrations and he had a Great time.

Hey Shiningstar! welcome to the Republican party, same here. :thumbsup: :)

are most Jews Republican? I would think so seeing as how Republicans usually lean to the side of Israel, and the Dems always prefer the Palesinteans. Not only that, polls clearly show that Republicans are much more religous. (generally speaking).

THere are Jews who are Republican ..............Many more believe the Garbage
that the democratic party has thrown at them since the FDR days.

As for Isreal ........many, many Jews believe the crap about the Palestianions
being Oppressed by the JEWS and that we DESERVE to be discriminated against.

[Sycorax]

THere are Jews who are Republican ..............Many more believe the Garbage
that the democratic party has thrown at them since the FDR days.

As for Isreal ........many, many Jews believe the crap about the Palestianions
being Oppressed by the JEWS and that we DESERVE to be discriminated against.


Thats ludicrous, where are the Jews gonna go if they keep giving up land? They gonna live in the Ocean now? I guess humanity is guaranteed to have war and conflict. unfortunatly.

[amberstar]

The Passion comes out tomorrow. It is playing at two local theaters, one is already sold out!
I'm going to try to see it this weekend.

Thank you for posting the reviews, I've always liked Paul Harvey:)

Raymar, I agree with you 100%, well said :)

Amber

[Raymar3d]

:)

[thomas7g]

I haven't seen it but I really think it would be unfair to call it antisemetic from every indication I see. There were no christian's when Christ was born. No muslims. Just jews and pagans(including romans). So of course your bad guys would have to be chosen from that group.

Btw- Mel Gibson felt so deeply about this, that he said in an interview that it was his hands you seen hammering the nails in the cross. While I'm not religious, I see that's a pretty big statement. He felt that let him be the first sinner, that he is no better than another.

:)

[shiningstar]

Thats ludicrous, where are the Jews gonna go if they keep giving up land? They gonna live in the Ocean now? I guess humanity is guaranteed to have war and conflict. unfortunatly.

First of all welcome to the fleet.

Second of all on your ? ............ask the Liberals who keep pushing that crap.

[shiningstar]

I haven't seen it but I really think it would be unfair to call it antisemetic from every indication I see. There were no christian's when Christ was born. No muslims. Just jews and pagans(including romans). So of course your bad guys would have to be chosen from that group.

Btw- Mel Gibson felt so deeply about this, that he said in an interview that it was his hands you seen hammering the nails in the cross. While I'm not religious, I see that's a pretty big statement. He felt that let him be the first sinner, that he is no better than another.

:)

Excellent Post as always Thomas ..................I also believe that even though
I haven't seen the film that it's unfair to call it antisemetic. Keep posting thomas.

[shiningstar]

The Passion comes out tomorrow. It is playing at two local theaters, one is already sold out!
I'm going to try to see it this weekend.

Thank you for posting the reviews, I've always liked Paul Harvey:)

Raymar, I agree with you 100%, well said :)

Amber


I've always liked him too ...........very reassuring voice ......... :thumbsup:

[jewels]

Thanks for the comments, everyone: especially Ken. You always state things so much better than I could.

I saw the movie last night. It's intense & powerful and made me think, and :cry: (though not as much as I expected to). And I think the ending is perfect. Wow. Wow to the entire thing.

Shiningstar, I think that there are individuals playing Sanhedrin & Priests that will disturb you--their callousness to protect their control over their people at all costs, even a man's life, is just flat out disturbing to anyone. The Romans are even more disturbing. But the movie makes it very clear that the story of Jesus is that his death was his choice and he could have stopped it, had he chosen to. The movie is way too personal to "blame" any group. He, himself, forgave those who carried out his death even as they were killing him. The "blame" rests on all of sinful mankind, and is something that I walked out thinking "he did all that for me" on a totally different level than I as a Christian had experienced that before. I walked out wishing that everyone who saw it, finds the hope in the final scene.

Thank you, Mel, that was quite a gift you gave us.

[shiningstar]

Thanks for the comments, everyone: especially Ken. You always state things so much better than I could.

I saw the movie last night. It's intense & powerful and made me think, and :cry: (though not as much as I expected to). And I think the ending is perfect. Wow. Wow to the entire thing.

Shiningstar, I think that there are individuals playing Sanhedrin & Priests that will disturb you--their callousness to protect their control over their people at all costs, even a man's life, is just flat out disturbing to anyone. The Romans are even more disturbing. But the movie makes it very clear that the story of Jesus is that his death was his choice and he could have stopped it, had he chosen to. The movie is way too personal to "blame" any group. He, himself, forgave those who carried out his death even as they were killing him. The "blame" rests on all of sinful mankind, and is something that I walked out thinking "he did all that for me" on a totally different level than I as a Christian had experienced that before. I walked out wishing that everyone who saw it, finds the hope in the final scene.

Thank you, Mel, that was quite a gift you gave us.

The callousness of Sanhedrin and the Priests is nothing new and is actually a matter of record. That certianly doesn't make Gibson a antisemite.

[jewels]

The callousness of Sanhedrin and the Priests is nothing new and is actually a matter of record. That certianly doesn't make Gibson a antisemite.
That's what I thought too.

[shiningstar]

That's what I thought too.

I know that it's hard for alot of people to face unpleasant
things in the history of their ancestors .........but rather
then hiding away from it or trying to rewrite history ...........
I found it was better to face up to it so that no one would
repeat it .................

[jewels]

Good words, shiningstar.

Oh, the more I think about the movie: the Sanhedrin of the day were really just trying to preserve their political power and safeguard what they perceived as their people's purity of their faith, while they as a nation were occupied by a monarchy that made the monarch a god to be worshipped. If Jesus wasn't who he said he was (and he wasn't the only 1st century Jew to have followers claiming he was messiah--oppression will bring those types out in a people) then his "I AM" statements would have been blasphemy as they identified him as claiming to be God.

Anyway, I see it as God had a plan and they had a role. A huge role full of faithful believers, going back to Abraham that laid the groundwork for their to be an understanding of what sin was, what price had to be paid to eliminate it, and how much God was willing to go through to have a relationship with the people he created.

[shiningstar]

Good words, shiningstar.

Oh, the more I think about the movie: the Sanhedrin of the day were really just trying to preserve their political power and safeguard what they perceived as their people's purity of their faith, while they as a nation were occupied by a monarchy that made the monarch a god to be worshipped. If Jesus wasn't who he said he was (and he wasn't the only 1st century Jew to have followers claiming he was messiah--oppression will bring those types out in a people) then his "I AM" statements would have been blasphemy as they identified him as claiming to be God.

Anyway, I see it as God had a plan and they had a role. A huge role full of faithful believers, going back to Abraham that laid the groundwork for their to be an understanding of what sin was, what price had to be paid to eliminate it, and how much God was willing to go through to have a relationship with the people he created.

Well written Jewels. In any case if the Sanhedrin hadn't panicked and ordered
his death then he would never had died on the cross and Christianity wouldn't
exist today. As a matter of fact he would have been the greatest teacher of
the Jewish faith or simply dismissed as a madman instead of being the
messanger of the Christian faith.

[The 14th Colony]

There are two truths to the question of who killed Christ. Of course the Jews killed him, as did the gentiles, as did every person on the face of the earth in the past, present, and future. But the second truth is that Jesus was sent to earth for one reason and one reason alone, to die for our sins and be our salvation. So who killed Christ? Christ did. God did.

[shiningstar]

There are two truths to the question of who killed Christ. Of course the Jews killed him, as did the gentiles, as did every person on the face of the earth in the past, present, and future. But the second truth is that Jesus was sent to earth for one reason and one reason alone, to die for our sins and be our salvation. So who killed Christ? Christ did. God did.


Yes it is true that the PRIESTS had a GREAT role to play in his death ........
Perhaps you though should also remember that one of the Popes I think it was Pope Pious the Twenty third gave absolution to the Jews on that matter. And
Pope John Paul has been working tirelessly in order to ensure that Jews were
no longer considered subhuman or murderers but Spiritual sisters and brothers.

[Raymar3d]

I know that it's hard for alot of people to face unpleasant
things in the history of their ancestors .........but rather
then hiding away from it or trying to rewrite history ...........
I found it was better to face up to it so that no one would
repeat it .................

We all have things that we wish didn't happen. Like the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem witch trials. And of course, the holocaust. But all these things were fringe elements, led by fanatics.

Evil is often done in the name of God. I personally have always believed that's Satan's greatest tool, to decieve by doing "God's Will" supposedly, but really doing the opposite of what God would want.

Ken

[Sycorax]

Just seen the movie and I'm glad I did. I dont think its something that should be "rated" to be honest. It also depends on where your coming from when you go in there. it is something to see though, so I recommend it.

I didnt see any anti-semitisim at all. The Pharisees were the 2nd most nasty bunch in the movie. They happend to be Jews, but it was because of thier power hungry-jeolousy-blindness-phoney-pridefull religousness that made them so bad. The Roman soldiers were really dispicable. They seemed the worst in the movie taking extreme hearltess pleasure out of torturing the innocent. Even still, I dont want to hurt any Romans now. Its a Love story about good vs. evil.

The thing that does aggrivate me, is online you see people screaming about how anti-semetic it is. The protesting itself is what kinda gets too me if anything at all. Its like walking down the street, minding your own business, and some people get in your face accusing you "YO! WHY ARE YOU RACISTS???? YOUR A RACIST!!!! I TELL YOU YOUR A RACIST!!!" over and over again. Thats what gets to you after awhile.

anyway, the goodnews is, many complainers are retracting their statements. and some Jewish people are not pleased with the false anti-semetic accusations. This guy I listened to on the radio at http://www.lauraingraham.com/public/ was wonderful. here is his site: http://www.towardtradition.org/

[Gunstar Aries]

Thanks, Jewels for posting those. I'm trying to hold off seeing the movie, myself. At least until the crowds die down. But I hope Mel makes his money back 10 fold. As a historian, I appreciate his efforts to be as historically accurate as possible. As a Catholic who finds the Shroud of Turin remarkable, I'm burning to see if the detail captured in the Shroud is going to be reproduced.

Shiningstar, you're input on this was a pleasure to read. I don't want to start a political dicsussion, but as a conservative myself, I can't say I was surprised by the lack of tolerance you found with the tolerance police. I'd say it's a case of "Physician, heal thyself," but that would be cliche.

In any case, you're a real 'Shinning Star' on this topic, with your words of wisdom shining through...
:salute:

Thanks,

Gunstar Aries

[shiningstar]

Thanks, Jewels for posting those. I'm trying to hold off seeing the movie, myself. At least until the crowds die down. But I hope Mel makes his money back 10 fold. As a historian, I appreciate his efforts to be as historically accurate as possible. As a Catholic who finds the Shroud of Turin remarkable, I'm burning to see if the detail captured in the Shroud is going to be reproduced.

Shiningstar, you're input on this was a pleasure to read. I don't want to start a political dicsussion, but as a conservative myself, I can't say I was surprised by the lack of tolerance you found with the tolerance police. I'd say it's a case of "Physician, heal thyself," but that would be cliche.

In any case, you're a real 'Shinning Star' on this topic, with your words of wisdom shining through...
:salute:

Thanks,

Gunstar Aries

Thanks Gunstar Aries :thumbsup:

[shiningstar]

Welcome to the club Sycorax! :thumbsup:

[Gunstar Aries]

shiningstar, I could go back through and post the quotes where you've nailed it. Suffice to say between your posts and jewels, I don't have much more to say. Not 'til I see the movie, at least
:cool:

GA

[shiningstar]

shiningstar, I could go back through and post the quotes where you've nailed it. Suffice to say between your posts and jewels, I don't have much more to say. Not 'til I see the movie, at least
:cool:

GA

:laugh: Gunstar Aries :blush:

[Sycorax]

Welcome to the club Sycorax!


Thanks ShiningStar, great to meet people like you, infact, there seems to be many cool people on this board.

:)

[Sycorax]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-passion29.html

blah, France says NO to Passion movie.

:thumbdown :cry: :mad: :rage:

[jewels]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-passion29.html

blah, France says NO to Passion movie.

:thumbdown :cry: :mad: :rage:
Grrrr. France never understands anything anymore. When I see things like this I see them as a nation that has fallen from it's former place of world leadership into the darkness of political correctness.

You know those crowds over half of which were in tears over Jesus' journey down the Via Dolorosa? It was Passover. In Jerusalem. Most of them were Jews too. I don't know how anyone could miss their faces and anguish over Jesus.

It doesn't matter who put him to death--Jesus came here SO THAT he could die and it had to be at the hands of another and the worst sort of death. The important thing about Jesus isn't who drove in the nails or handed him over (he forgave them!) it's who he died FOR! (everyone). Grrrr.

[shiningstar]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-passion29.html

blah, France says NO to Passion movie.

:thumbdown :cry: :mad: :rage:


I mean no OFFENSE to you Sycorax ........but for some reason I am not
surprised that FRANCE said no.

[Micheleh]

Grrrr. France never understands anything anymore. When I see things like this I see them as a nation that has fallen from it's former place of world leadership into the darkness of political correctness.

You know those crowds over half of which were in tears over Jesus' journey down the Via Dolorosa? It was Passover. In Jerusalem. Most of them were Jews too. I don't know how anyone could miss their faces and anguish over Jesus.

It doesn't matter who put him to death--Jesus came here SO THAT he could die and it had to be at the hands of another and the worst sort of death. The important thing about Jesus isn't who drove in the nails or handed him over (he forgave them!) it's who he died FOR! (everyone). Grrrr.

Fine words, I agree, but don't forget- spoken from the safe remove of an ocean away. We here cannot truly understand the reality of living, truly living in a place where the response to a religious or political disagreement is not bad press, but violent death. You honor the truth of Christ's sacrifice. They are simply taking what they believe to be careful precuations to prevent the sacrifices of, for instance, a busload fo children who may accidentally be on the wrong side of whatever group having whatever millenia old jsutification for he shedding of blood to prove themseves right.

I do not disagree with you. I simply remind you that we live in one of the few places where one can freely hold one's own opinions.

[shiningstar]

We all have things that we wish didn't happen. Like the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem witch trials. And of course, the holocaust. But all these things were fringe elements, led by fanatics.

Evil is often done in the name of God. I personally have always believed that's Satan's greatest tool, to decieve by doing "God's Will" supposedly, but really doing the opposite of what God would want.

Ken

Well written Ken.
I couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbsup:

[Micheleh]

PS- To clarify, I am not criticizing anyone's faiths or beliefs. I just would not want to be the one in their situation at the moment.

Do we have any French members?

[shiningstar]

PS- To clarify, I am not criticizing anyone's faiths or beliefs. I just would not want to be the one in their situation at the moment.

Do we have any French members?

I don't think you were criticizing anyone .................

Come to think of it ..........neither would I.

[Sycorax]

I mean no OFFENSE to you Sycorax ........but for some reason I am not

LOL! definatly no offense taken here about the French. I'm not their biggest fan right now. Most of them talk bady about Americans instead of appreciating us after all the lives we lost for them in WW2. They try to obstruct us any chance they get and they also had BILLIONS invested with Sadam. I'm even mad at Germany (I'm half-German too), because they had several Billion invested with that butcher too.



ouch! not like me to rant! sorry.

:laugh:

[shiningstar]

LOL! definatly no offense taken here about the French. I'm not their biggest fan right now. Most of them talk bady about Americans instead of appreciating us after all the lives we lost for them in WW2. They try to obstruct us any chance they get and they also had BILLIONS invested with Sadam. I'm even mad at Germany (I'm half-German too), because they had several Billion invested with that butcher too.



ouch! not like me to rant! sorry.

:laugh:

Don't apologize. I'm french canadian american indian on my father's side and
part german on eastern europe on my mother's side and I see things YOUR
way 100%.

It's pretty bad when $ signs mean more then LIVES to people

[bsg1fan1975]

I agree. I am pretty outraged with the Germans and French myself. (My late gram's parents were German)

I just choose not to see this particular movie because I am not interested and it has been to hyped!

[jewels]

Fine words, I agree, but don't forget- spoken from the safe remove of an ocean away. We here cannot truly understand the reality of living, truly living in a place where the response to a religious or political disagreement is not bad press, but violent death. You honor the truth of Christ's sacrifice. They are simply taking what they believe to be careful precuations to prevent the sacrifices of, for instance, a busload fo children who may accidentally be on the wrong side of whatever group having whatever millenia old jsutification for he shedding of blood to prove themseves right.

I do not disagree with you. I simply remind you that we live in one of the few places where one can freely hold one's own opinions. That's very true Michelle, very well stated and part of France's problem. They've driven religion and faith (of any sort other than humanism) so far underground that there is no tolerance for discussion. A very sad state for a country that is known for the beauty of it's medieval churches. I was riling about just how far they'd fallen. Their culture is moving the way of other great civilizations and it is a sad thing to watch. The deeper into a secular, humanistic or hedonistic bent a society seems to go the closer that culture seems to get to losing it's role as a leader among other nations (and sometimes losing it's identity as a nation too). I just hate seeing faith driven entirely from where the citizens of a nation can dialogue about it freely and have differing opinions.

[shiningstar]

That's very true Michelle, very well stated and part of France's problem. They've driven religion and faith (of any sort other than humanism) so far underground that there is no tolerance for discussion. A very sad state for a country that is known for the beauty of it's medieval churches. I was riling about just how far they'd fallen. Their culture is moving the way of other great civilizations and it is a sad thing to watch. The deeper into a secular, humanistic or hedonistic bent a society seems to go the closer that culture seems to get to losing it's role as a leader among other nations (and sometimes losing it's identity as a nation too). I just hate seeing faith driven entirely from where the citizens of a nation can dialogue about it freely and have differing opinions.

Speaking of how 'far' France has fallen; If you want to see ANTISEMITISM in
action ............GO THERE. It's on the rise in France as it is in Germany as well. :wtf:

[bsg1fan1975]

and they call us "neanderthals"? What does that make them?

[shiningstar]

and they call us "neanderthals"? What does that make them?

exceptionally IGNORANT! :rolleyes:

[launchcruiser7]

french army rifle for sale never fired only droped once french tanks have 5 gears in reforvce and one in forword in case the germans get behind them how does a french ademeral reveive his fleet wuth a glass bottom boat hey froggie sperkendedouch no well your welcome 5 great uncles beaches of normandy let dig them all up and bring them home NATO JOKE DONT SHOOT THE FIRST TANKS YOU SEE LEAVING FULDA GAP IT WILL BE THE KERMITS GETTING BEHIND US :) death to the cyclons and the bombuilders sorry to rowen and all the muppet show fands eating my freedom frys howlin mad general mayhem

[Senmut]

The Jews that killed Jesus were a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, a cadre among the leadership. A bunch of Quislings who would have sold their virgin sister (at bargain basement prices, too) to the Romans for a continuation of their cushy, insulated position in an occupied country. To blame "Jews" for killing Jesus just because some were involved is like blaming Italians for killing Americans, if someone gets whacked by the Mafia. And let us not forget that He was Himself a Jew, and He forgave those who were killing Him.
As to the French, well, eventually, they will wake up, and realize that it isn't the Age of The Sun King anymore. No doubt, it will come as something of a shock to them, between their price-controlled bread, and price-supported wine.

[shiningstar]

The Jews that killed Jesus were a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, a cadre among the leadership. A bunch of Quislings who would have sold their virgin sister (at bargain basement prices, too) to the Romans for a continuation of their cushy, insulated position in an occupied country. To blame "Jews" for killing Jesus just because some were involved is like blaming Italians for killing Americans, if someone gets whacked by the Mafia. And let us not forget that He was Himself a Jew, and He forgave those who were killing Him.
As to the French, well, eventually, they will wake up, and realize that it isn't the Age of The Sun King anymore. No doubt, it will come as something of a shock to them, between their price-controlled bread, and price-supported wine.

Well said Senmut. Besides as I posted before .......Pope Pious 23rd (I believe it
was) gave absolution to the Jews in this matter for the very reason that you
posted ..........that it was the LEADERSHIP that insisted on condeming Jesus to
death not the population itself.