The Second Coming Story

[nccdee]

I have heard about the trailer but what is the story? I mean, what is it about? Is there a script I can read? I looked for it at other BG websites but have not found anything.

nccdee

[DG Promotions]

I have not seen it myself yet I am Looking forward to seeing it shown at my convention in Chicago by Richard he tells me he is also going to show a making of the Trailer video anyway if know one else can tell you send me a PM after the show and I will.

DG Promotions
http://dg-promotions.5u.com/galactica.htm
:)

[jewels]

I saw it 3 or 4 times in one weekend, but I was sleep deprived so someones going to have to correct this:

It was shot in 1999 so the timeframe was set 20 years after the Hand of God. The colonials had stopped for a rest and rebuilt their civilization to some extent on a planet called New Kobal. The Cylons had ceased chasing them some years before that, Baltar returns to warn Apollo that the Cylons had evolved and there had been a civil war. The newer, fiercer Cylons had won and were now once again directing their energy to bringing order to the universe and were seeking their old foe: the human race. Apollo and the older warriors have to bring a new generation of Warriors up-to-speed and get their civilization prepared to flee to the stars and rejoin the quest for Earth. They'd developed a faster better viper, the Scarlet Viper. Those Pilots wore a burgundy and black warrior jacket.

It was a little grittier than TOS but still held tight to it's feel, story and elements and I think you could have brought your kids. The people that contributed to it varied from fans that brought their own costumes, to Terry Carter, John Colicos, and Jack Stauffer from the old series, to other working actors. One of the costume designers posts here occasionally, some of the FX shots that Foundation Imaging used in their Demo for DeSanto were in this too. The director of photography from Jurassic Park was the main cinematographer (Dean....forget the last name).

Jewels

[nccdee]

Thanks you Jewels for the description.

I would have like to seen John Colicos in his last performance. I really love seeing him revive his Kor character for Deep Space Nice. He will be missed.

It does sound like a very interesting story.

FYI Jewels, I do appreciate your post at Sci-Fi. I enjoyed BGS when I was kid and watching the mini has gotten me back in the BG universe.

nccdee

[DG Promotions]

If my information is correct the making of trailer has more of John I know there was more footage filmed than was used I will know when I see it. This is bad my own show and I have to sneak off to watch a trailer.

DG Promotions
http://dg-promotions.5u.com/galactica.htm
:)

[shiningstar]

I saw it 3 or 4 times in one weekend, but I was sleep deprived so someones going to have to correct this:

It was shot in 1999 so the timeframe was set 20 years after the Hand of God. The colonials had stopped for a rest and rebuilt their civilization to some extent on a planet called New Kobal. The Cylons had ceased chasing them some years before that, Baltar returns to warn Apollo that the Cylons had evolved and there had been a civil war. The newer, fiercer Cylons had won and were now once again directing their energy to bringing order to the universe and were seeking their old foe: the human race. Apollo and the older warriors have to bring a new generation of Warriors up-to-speed and get their civilization prepared to flee to the stars and rejoin the quest for Earth. They'd developed a faster better viper, the Scarlet Viper. Those Pilots wore a burgundy and black warrior jacket.

It was a little grittier than TOS but still held tight to it's feel, story and elements and I think you could have brought your kids. The people that contributed to it varied from fans that brought their own costumes, to Terry Carter, John Colicos, and Jack Stauffer from the old series, to other working actors. One of the costume designers posts here occasionally, some of the FX shots that Foundation Imaging used in their Demo for DeSanto were in this too. The director of photography from Jurassic Park was the main cinematographer (Dean....forget the last name).

Jewels

Thank you so much for the description Jewels. I think I would have
liked that VERSION far, far better then the 'mini'

[Stray Viper]

I may be wrong, but there wasn't too much of a story fleshed out for the Second Coming. It was just a short trailer intended as a "proof of concept" was it not? Just to show the Big Honchos that this could be good ... very good. If the sell was made, then they could have moved forward with a studio and moved on with a more detailed, complete story.

At least that's the way I understood it.

[Stray Viper]

It still gets me how much Richard Hatch sacrificed to make this thing, and it amazes me he's not bitter about the fact that it fell through.

[shiningstar]

Actually it hasn't fallen through.
The trailer was a huge hit at the conventions.


Until people admit they are defeated ...... They'll never fail.

Don't forget about a certain Republican actor/governor who people
said would never be elected President. He was elected and re-elected.
And that was by a very LARGE majority.

[dvo47p]

I have heard about the trailer but what is the story? I mean, what is it about? Is there a script I can read? I looked for it at other BG websites but have not found anything. nccdee

Here is an edited cut for this actress,
[ http://www.athenademos.tv/video.html ] it's a clip of Hatch's Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming. You will notice the gritty stuff jewels posted about, also. I put the address so you could pick to your modem's speed.

Ps. There is a clip floating around re: the Pegasus, Cain took on two Basestar's & lived! Check out www.battlestarpegasus.com > The guy that runs it was the fellow that I got started me fired up with REVIVAL.

[shiningstar]

Dvo thanks for posting the links! :thumbsup:

[nccdee]

Thanks dvo.

nccdee

[Antelope]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I am still new to the continuation concepts. The Second Coming with Richard Hatch is a separate effort than the Desantos Continuation? The Desanto Continuation is based on a generation later still in Space still looking for Earth (Battlestar 1980 plot prior to arrival at Earth?). The main characters in Desantos version would be the children of the original characters, for example a 20-30 year old Boxey etc.

If the above is true and people like the idea of "The Second Coming" I don't see a whole lot of difference between the start of "The Second Coming" and the mini. I see previous cylon war, society now at peace, horrible cylons return, flee into space. I wonder if Richard Hatch made the mini, Colonel Adama of the mini was Colonel Boxey, Boxey's son was Lee Adama, Starbuck and Cassiopeia had a granddaughter named Kara, and Caprica was called New Kobol if everyone would be happy. Just a thought what a difference a few names and two minutes of explained history would make. I bet even the female "Starbuck" haters would come around if they learned Kara's call sign is out of respect for her deceased Grandfather.

Maybe the second coming is here but we don't want to see it. The second coming is a bit grittier than TOS...I wonder if that means "dark and reimagined" in SCIFI speak.

[Dawg]

Antelope, if that had been the case there might not be such the animosity generated over the past year.

First things first: the Hatch effort predates the DeSanto effort, and they are not related, except that both ignore Galactica 1980. (BTW, that was the title - "Battlestar" wasn't part of it at all). TSC portrayed Apollo as Commander of the Galactica, the DeSanto effort would have had the Galactica commanded by a grown-up Boxey (now called Orin). Go to www.cylon.org, Sci-Fi on TV, and the Galactica section and you'll find an extensive write-up on all the incarnations.

If Moore had actually done as you suggest (the Kara Thrace character being Starbuck's granddaughter, etc.), he would have stayed much truer to the TOS universe than he ever had any intention of doing. Instead, he remade "In Harm's Way" (remember?). He totally threw away the TOS universe. The characters may have wound up in similar emotional states, but they aren't characters from Saga.

So, no, this new universe is in no way "The Second Coming" or anything resembling the DeSanto story. But go read the info at CA - you'll find it fascinating.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[shiningstar]

In the Mini .... Baltar was a sleazy computer genious who gave up the secrets
of the defense system for what he 'thought' was a human corporate spy .......

In the Original BSG ........... Baltar was a member of the council of twelve who
held a seal of Kobol and who betrayed humanity because he wanted to RULE them.

In the mini ........... the cylons were created by the humans and returned
in order to destroy them. Also Minorites were practically demoted to
cylons spies or simply 'extras' to fill in extra space when required. There
were no strong minorites on the bridge ....... with the exception of
Boomer who instead of being black was now female, asian and a cylon.

In the original .......... the cylons were created by a reptilian race called the
cylons. The race was extinct but the machines with a prime motive to kill
and exterminate the humans remained.

In the Mini .......... Adama Lied to the people and told them he KNEW
where Earth was in order to instill hope in the people and lead them out
of harms way. In the mini ........ the woman characters were little
more then stereotypes .... with the exception of SIX who made from
what I was told an excellent Villan. There were NO Blacks in major
roles and other then Adama Lieing to his own people literally no
reference to Earth.

In the Original ............... Adama had some inkling that Earth Existed.
Although he wasn't too certain of it's location he didn't lie to his own
people. He told the truth that they were Looking for Earth because
it was Humanities' last hope. Also, In the original .............all the cultures
of Earth were included in making BSG. There were strong character's,
Men and Women alike who helped to make this series a success. Practically
all minorities were represented somewhere. Cultures that were represented
included the book of Morman, Hebrew, toltec, mayen, Islam ..........and many
many others. The strong woman included two in the military on on the bridge
and the other in the cock pit of a viper, a former socialator (prostitute), and
including even women on the council of twelve. The bridge crew included
Colonel TIgh who was BLACK, sober and a very, very strong character in his own right, Commander Adama who was not wishy washy in his command but
made his decisions decisively with an even handed fairness that was to be
admired, the viper pilots were Starbuck (who was an orphan and a MALE)
and who didn't have to resort to violence simply because he disagreed
with someone ....... unlike Kara Thrace ........ he respected the chain of
command and the officers with whom he served as well as his commanding
officers, BOomer who was Black, male and HUMAN, Jolly white male, bojay white male, and yes Apollo who was Married to Serina Boxey's mother who was also a strong female character in her own right and a warrior who was killed by a cylon.


Also in the Mini ............ violance and wanton sex made this 'movie'
inappropiate for my children to watch.

In the BSG ............... the writers relied on the plot line in order
to move the story along without having to resort to such inappropiate
subject matter. This show was well written and very suitable not
only for adults to watch but children as well.

Ron Moore took a series that was a certified hit that reached over
67 million people and turned it into a stereotype peyton place in
space that reached all of 4,000,000.000 homes .....if he even
reached that many... and he calls 'that' a success.

That is why the fans of the Original BSG are so angry.

Now if people are fans of the mini that's fine and dandy with
me ...........just don't ask me to like something like that .......
cause I don't.

[Antelope]

I see the Desanto story being a true continuation. I just see what I read of The Second Coming as more of a restart with some original characters around to give it the mythos. I'm not saying the mini is the second coming I just see a lot of similarities in the concept. I don't think Moore, Desanto, or Hatch come up with their ideas in a vacuum. I even notice that human-cylons were introduced for the first time in Battlestar 1980. I already suspect Moore is well versed in TOS despite being coy on the subject early on. I bet Moore read Hatch and Desantos work also. As we can tell from "In Harm's Way" he has a penchant for adapting other people's work. Everything old is new again. It's just the more I learn the less I find that Moore is out of bounds compared to the ideas already floated by others. Moore seems to have inspiration from Larson, Hatch, and Preminger not to mention who else that isn't obvious. If Battlestar 1980 went to a second season I wonder if the human cylon issues would have been the center of the series. It would have been a lot better than the time travel issues they based most of that series on. Unfortunately even Larson was able to butcher the Galactica mythos without the help of Moore or SCIFI.

I just wonder how much anger is a result of how the mini was marketed as opposed to the script. I also am sure some of the driving force behind "Apollo" commanding the Galactica in a Hatch version is because Richard Hatch would be playing the role. Give Edward Olmos the role instead and I bet people wouldn't be so fired up. If Richard Hatch was retired nobody would be mad at such a scenario.

I just think people are more mad by what the original names represent to them than the characters written in this or any other Galactica script.

[Antelope]

I like TOS but think there are more strong female roles in the mini. President Roslin is much stronger character than Siress Tinia, the females on the bridge crew were one step above radio operators, the black characters on the show had no female relationships but were sidekicks to powerful white men. In the case of Boomer he was more a sidekick to a sidekick. Don't let anger cloud your judgement. The black female on the mini Galactica has already had more scenes than Rigel in the entire TOS series. No females were shown in the Galactica launch bay working on vipers. Callie you've come a long way baby. They had 22 episodes to give Tigh or Boomer a love interest in TOS to no avail. I wouldn't judge the Moore version on the pilot.

[nccdee]

Shiningstar you made good points.

New Baltar, believeable and works for me. (Just take a look at executives at Tyson and Enron or the Boeing scandal involving a new hired retire Air Force Major).

Cylons: same mission, different beginning. Still works, kill humans, survivor are on the run. We have not heard the new Cylons speak (CGI version) but I hope they are similar in sound to the TOS.

Adama and Earth: Based on a lying? Adama lied about knowing were Earth is located (and maybe he does not believe it exist) but it creates the same objected, run from the Cylons/find Earth.

Minorities: The President is a women, that's a start. We will still have to wait until the series about the new council. Also, we will to wait for other characters (the doctors in sickbay, new fighter squardons, scientist, engineers and so) to be added in the future.

Sex and Violence: You got me there. TOS family show, mini not. I like the fact she is toying with Baltar's mind but "sexual teasing" is a little too much and not really needed.

Religion: I would think the massacare with have the survivor turn more to their religion, which hopefully will be explored more when the series begins.

The mini is just the beginning. For all we know, there maybe semi-regulars who will be introduce later are. Look at the impact of the "Q" character for ST:NG (he appeared in only 7 episode). So the addition of minority characters in pivitol roles may still be there.

One little note: "...with the exception of SIX who made from
what I was told an excellent Villan". Does this mean you have not actually seen the mini (this is not an attack on you in any way, you seemed very well informed of the details of the mini)? Although I agree that minority characters were not given bigger role, I in no way saw them in any undignified way.

Now we have 13 episodes to see what Ron Moore's plan are.

nccdee

[Darth Marley]

Shiningstar, I am shocked, not by your views, but by the sheer length of that post.

That had to have set a record of some kind.

You should find more to say more often.

[shiningstar]

LOL Darth Marley

[Antelope]

Sex and Violence: TOS Starbuck had as many lust scenes as anyone on the mini. What you can show on TV changed since 1978 however. If they remade TOS today I am sure I would have seen a bit more of Cassie in the Rising Star and in the steam bath in the launch tube. You had a main character at the beginning of TOS who was a hooker!

Other than the baby killing scene, which by the way is not on camera there has been no more violence than what was on TOS.

I loved both but I will not say TOS was something it isn't. I don't think that Starbuck, a two timing, smoker, drinker, and gambler is exactly the poster boy of family values.

[shiningstar]

For one thing The TOS didn't show Starbuck or any one else having a
virtual Hand job while in the 'office'. Also the only thing Starbuck
actually did ........was to kiss the girls. No one ever saw him actually
sleep with the girls...... or with any one or thing else for that matter.

The scenes with Starbuck left ALOT and I do mean
ALOT to the imagination. While Starbuck had his share of "ACTION", you
never actually saw it .............with the exception of alot of kissing ........there
was no Inappropiate touching that I had to explain to my children.

Perhaps the only scene in the entire series that would qualify as
remotely close to being inappropiate was when Starbuck and Cassiopia
were kissing in the launch tubes but they weren't doing much else
in the scenes that were not deleted from the actual show. And
yes .........I enjoyed Athena's 'sweet' revenge when
she pressed that little button.

As for Starbuck while he did smoke, drink and gamble he was always
there for his fellow warriors and friends and unlike Kara Thrace didn't
rush off to punch his superior officers in the face with little or no
cause.

[Boomer65]

Originally posted by shiningstar
For one thing The TOS didn't show Starbuck or any one else having a
virtual Hand job while in the 'office'.
shiningstar’s right. There was far too much gratuitous sex going on – if I want to watch Barbarella or Heavy Metal The Movie I’ll rent them from Blockbuster. Some of it was okay - I thought that the scene with Tyrol and Boomer was tastefully done but not over the top like most of the other scenes. That hand job thing was just plain dumb. I’m very surprised that it wasn’t cut.

Ron Moore took a series that was a certified hit that reached over 67 million people and turned it into a stereotype peyton place in space that reached all of 4,000,000.000 homes .....if he even reached that many... and he calls 'that' a success.
That’s not a fair comparison. Twenty-five years ago there was basically ABC, NBC, and CBS and that was just about it. Now you have Fox, TBS, AMC, USA, etc, etc, etc that divide up the pie. Twenty-five years ago, TOS was riding the Star Wars hype. From what I’ve read, TOS wouldn’t even have been made had it not been for SW. That boost doesn’t exist today. And finally, the execs at Skiffy also believe that the mini is worth a gamble and these guys aren’t there just to throw money away.

[shiningstar]

Good post Boomer.

[Raymar3d]

Hi,

"Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming" had approximately enough footage shot for it to be a complete episode.

If you have read Richard's novels, he put all the elements from his trailer in them. The story is essentially found in the novels, although he was able to expand the story considerably in 5 novels. :)

I had the priveledge of working with Richard on the trailer, and to this day, I think it is the best Battlestar Galactica project idea. (I also did the Celestra for the miniseries.)

It was a direct continuation of the original series. Galactica 1980 is not considered canon to this production, but possibly a vision or dream that Adama had on his deathbed. So, elements like "The Return of Starbuck" could still be part of the continuity, Boxey's real name being Troy, were kept for Richard's production.

BTW, George Murdock (Salik) also made an appearance in the trailer, with dialogue.

For the trailer, I created 3d cylons, created, then blew up the planet Kobol (it was not New Kobol, btw), did some rotoscoping, and chromakeying, flew a superbasestar over the ancient ruins of Eden, and did some viper animations.

If you want to see some images from the trailer, there are a few sites to visit:

http://www.richardhatch.com has a very nice article about it and some pictures.

http://www.demonslayers.com has my work, if you look in my gallery (click on "About Kenneth Thomson Jr.") you can find the 3d cylons, you can also see the Galactica Bridge if you visit my Galactica Newslink page (see the link below). You will also see a pic of Baltar on the Galactica bridge with me in uniform in the background. I redid a shot from the trailer as a test. (Okay, LOL, I wanted to be in it! Hehehehehe).

Mike McAdams website, BattlestarandBeyond has some great pics of the Galactica, and the other pics from the Technical Journal we did for Realm Press. Highly recommend viewing these!!!

Sincerely,

Ken Thomson Jr.

[bsg1fan1975]

In the Mini .... Baltar was a sleazy computer genious who gave up the secrets
of the defense system for what he 'thought' was a human corporate spy .......

In the Original BSG ........... Baltar was a member of the council of twelve who
held a seal of Kobol and who betrayed humanity because he wanted to RULE them.

In the mini ........... the cylons were created by the humans and returned
in order to destroy them. Also Minorites were practically demoted to
cylons spies or simply 'extras' to fill in extra space when required. There
were no strong minorites on the bridge ....... with the exception of
Boomer who instead of being black was now female, asian and a cylon.

In the original .......... the cylons were created by a reptilian race called the
cylons. The race was extinct but the machines with a prime motive to kill
and exterminate the humans remained.

In the Mini .......... Adama Lied to the people and told them he KNEW
where Earth was in order to instill hope in the people and lead them out
of harms way. In the mini ........ the woman characters were little
more then stereotypes .... with the exception of SIX who made from
what I was told an excellent Villan. There were NO Blacks in major
roles and other then Adama Lieing to his own people literally no
reference to Earth.

In the Original ............... Adama had some inkling that Earth Existed.
Although he wasn't too certain of it's location he didn't lie to his own
people. He told the truth that they were Looking for Earth because
it was Humanities' last hope. Also, In the original .............all the cultures
of Earth were included in making BSG. There were strong character's,
Men and Women alike who helped to make this series a success. Practically
all minorities were represented somewhere. Cultures that were represented
included the book of Morman, Hebrew, toltec, mayen, Islam ..........and many
many others. The strong woman included two in the military on on the bridge
and the other in the cock pit of a viper, a former socialator (prostitute), and
including even women on the council of twelve. The bridge crew included
Colonel TIgh who was BLACK, sober and a very, very strong character in his own right, Commander Adama who was not wishy washy in his command but
made his decisions decisively with an even handed fairness that was to be
admired, the viper pilots were Starbuck (who was an orphan and a MALE)
and who didn't have to resort to violence simply because he disagreed
with someone ....... unlike Kara Thrace ........ he respected the chain of
command and the officers with whom he served as well as his commanding
officers, BOomer who was Black, male and HUMAN, Jolly white male, bojay white male, and yes Apollo who was Married to Serina Boxey's mother who was also a strong female character in her own right and a warrior who was killed by a cylon.


Also in the Mini ............ violance and wanton sex made this 'movie'
inappropiate for my children to watch.

In the BSG ............... the writers relied on the plot line in order
to move the story along without having to resort to such inappropiate
subject matter. This show was well written and very suitable not
only for adults to watch but children as well.

Ron Moore took a series that was a certified hit that reached over
67 million people and turned it into a stereotype peyton place in
space that reached all of 4,000,000.000 homes .....if he even
reached that many... and he calls 'that' a success.

That is why the fans of the Original BSG are so angry.

Now if people are fans of the mini that's fine and dandy with
me ...........just don't ask me to like something like that .......
cause I don't.

Well said. I agree with it all. The mini just wasn't my cup of tea even though I never watched. I had no desire to bother after seeing previews!

[Antelope]

Thanks for the info Raymar3d.

On Shiningstars view of the sex in TOS versus the mini: I agree the sex in the mini is gratuitous. I wish it was toned down. I just wonder if TOS was made today and we had the exact same script how much more flesh we would have seen. In other words you can't compare the shown sex on the mini to the implied sex on TOS because television conventions have changed. They have had a few gratuitous near naked rubbing scenes on the new "Enterprise" that would be scandalous in the days of Star Trek TOS. It's the same story.

On the violence: Not one person in the mini is shown actually killed on camara except the cylon at Ragnar. A lot is implied but not shown. The horrific baby killing wasn't even shown which is why there is so much specualtion on what actually happened. Some people even speculated incorrectly that the baby was stolen not killed. The lasar shot to Serena in the back by the cylon in TOS and her agony prior to reaching hospital treatment that followed was worse than anything we have seen in the mini universe thus far.

Like you I enjoyed it when Athena got "that snake" in the launch tube although after Athena's conversation with Starbuck upon his return from battle in the initial attack she actually broke things off with him. When Starbuck met Cassiopeia, Athena was not his girlfriend. A good TOS lesson for women who go off half cocked on their boyfriends in a moment of stress, anger, or passion. Don't throw someone away and then get angry when they actually leave!

[shiningstar]

SHe didn't actually break things off with him .......what she actually said
was that she needed more time.

Bsg I agree with you about the Previews. After seeing them even if I hadn't
downloaded the script ...... I would have given it a big PASS as in FORGET IT.

[bsg1fan1975]

that's right! He was the one that kept coming back to her when he and Cassi were having troubles!

[Antelope]

Baltar versus Baltar:

Who is sleazier:
TOS Baltar: Knowingly initiated the slaughtered of the humans on 11 of the 12 colonies in exchange for the enslavement of his own colony under his control. After being back stabbed by the cylons goes on to wage a personal vendetta war against the few surviving humans.

Mini Baltar: Gives military secrets to a female defense contractor in the hope she can win a government contract for her company during peacetime so he can get a piece of ass. He is either now insane because of the guilt he carries or a victim of an alien chip implant.

TOS Baltar: evil psychopath
Mini Baltar: Naive smart man who let his johnson do the thinking at the wrong time with the wrong woman.

TOS Baltar needs to be executed. The mini Baltar still has the chance to redeem himself if he isn't under cylon mind control.

[shiningstar]

That's the only thing I 'didn't' like about Starbuck ....... the way he kept playing
the field ...... but then that was apart of his charm.

And Antelope the reason WHY I like the original BSG better was BECAUSE of the
way Everyone toned the SEX Down ....... I think reintroducing the 'leaving a
little something to the imagination' would be a great improvement over the
TV programming today .......especially AFTER the 'superbowl incident'.

I was outraged {as were 250,000 other families} by what Janet Jackson and her cohorts pulled! They should all be fined and banned from future NETWORK events;
sports or otherwise.

[bsg1fan1975]

my fiance saw that incident and thought it went way beyond deceny. He was glad that I didn't watch it!

[Antelope]

If I remember correctly Starbuck was dating Cassie and had a room on the Rising Star when Athena got a room on her own and assummed everything was the way it used to be. Starbuck should have leveled with her but let's face it if most men just met a hot new girl like Cassie and their crazy old flame came back to them on the same week you would be hard pressed to make the right decision. My poor boy Starbuck had no choice! You just have to pitty him for letting those women force him into such an ugly position!

[shiningstar]

I saw it too ........ that was MORE then enough for me.
Especially after my kids asked if they could have 'tear away' clothes
like that too.

Needless I to say ........... I said NO not in THIS lifetime.

My husband was mortified and was already calling the network to complain;
and HE never complains about anything. I didn't know he knew the type of
language he was using on the phone. :wtf:

[bsg1fan1975]

Oh, he could have made my ex-sailor fiance blush with the language he was using?

[shiningstar]

Starbuck asked ATHENA to dinner FIRST .........Athena couldn't go
because she was on duty ........her father let her off .........that's when
she went to the Rising Star to have dinner with Starbuck and that's when
Starbuck got an 'extra' room just for Athena ........and played BOTH Cassie
and Athena.

Well he made me Blush BSG and being a Veteran ......I thought I had heard
everything ....................................................................................

I found out I was WRONG :blush:

[bsg1fan1975]

wow! I wish I had been the little mousy in the corner!

[Antelope]

Once Starbuck seemed to settle down with Cassie, Athena pretty much disappeared from the script. That is too bad because I wanted to see more of her character.

I do wish that the sex in the mini and in TV in general was toned down. It is frustrating to see good female characters increasingly turned into sluts at some point in a series. I watch the show Charmed with my wife. Two of the three main characters are sluts and their working hard on turning the only mother into one also. It's too bad.

I am willing to bet we get a Tyrol/Boomer/Callie love triangle in the Moore series. Once Boomer is discovered as a cylon her character will be killed off in a dramatic fashion and Tyrol and Callie will live happily ever after raising Boxey (who is another human-cylon)....just my specualation.

[shiningstar]

LOL Bsg1fan.

Considering the fact that Boomer is supposed to be a cylon spy I would hope that our
dear sweet Tyrol isn't caught in the crossfire. Not that I'll be watching the Mini series
but I did like the way Tyrol was written in the script.

[shiningstar]

LOL Bsg1fan. I was shocked and WISHED I wasn't there to hear it at all.
I was just thankful that my kids were still talking about Janet Jackson and
what she pulled and didn't hear what I did out of my normally quiet husband. :wtf:

Considering the fact that Boomer is supposed to be a cylon spy I would hope that our
dear sweet Tyrol isn't caught in the crossfire. Not that I'll be watching the Mini series
but I did like the way Tyrol was written in the script.

[Antelope]

I stand corrected on the Rising Star incident. My wife says I always remember things as I want to believe it not how it happened!

Someone has to stick up for Starbuck. I still think he would have never hooked up with Cassie in the first place (reality not TV land) if Athena didn't give him the brush off in Saga of A Star World. There is no tomorrow and your girl needs more time! It's time to live for today!

[shiningstar]

It wasn't exactly a brush off. I saw the dvd yesterday ........and what she
said in essence was that she needed a little more time. That wasn't exactly
a brush off.

You have to remember with Starbuck's character ........... was everything
had to be now. So yes he took what she said as a 'brushoff' even though
that wasn't the way 'she' meant it. Also it was no secret that his character
had a problem with 'commitment' issues. Just ask "Miriam" or "Noday".

:check with the living legend episodes and you'll see what I mean.

[Raymar3d]

Starbuck: We were on a break!

LOL!

Ken :)

[Sept17th]

Two things...

Starbuck is missing that is one of the plot points of TSC, I don't think anybody mentioned that.

Antelope, you can make connections all day about vague plot points. The mini-series was vastly different than Battlestar Galactica. TSC and DeSanto version where so close to what Battlestar Galactica is there is no mistaking it. I do have advantage of seeing alot of this.

[Antelope]

I only recently started learning more of the details about the various continuations. The more I read the more I find that the continuations we "support" seem to stray pretty far from the original Galactica concepts. I also see a lot more similarities between the Moore version and some of the Continuation plots then what I thought when I was just reading the fan postings.

In the Desanto version it turns out that Apollo is turned into some kind of human-cylon/borg type character. All three versions (Desanto/Hatch/Moore) have a previous cylon war and then a new war against humanity starting against humans that are established in a home world. The more I read the more I believe Moore and SCIFI changed the names of characters and sold it as a remake for marketing reasons.

I am sure if at the end of TOS the episodes with the light ships never happened such a concept introduced in a continuation would have been a travesty and ripped by the hard core fans.

Human-cylons: Adama says in TOS that the machine cylons are modeled after us. A biological based cylon by TOS concept would be the ultimate goal of the cylon civilization. In BSG1980 just such a statement is made in one of the few good BSG1980 episodes. As we see one of the main concepts of Desanto is to turn humanity into human-cylons not kill them. I think that is the most radical change in any continuation/reimagination endevour.

From what little I have read thus far the Hatch version is closest to the original, Moore is closest to Hatch, and Desanto is the one reaching beyond the TOS world. Larson introduced many of the concepts that Moore copied. To some extent it looks like Moore is trying to make a TOS season 2 / BSG 1980 but clean up all the ridiculous plot elements like super strength humans. If you could write a list of how TOS season 1 ended and where you would like it to go and a list of the two or three good concepts from BSG 1980 you have....Moore's new series. Let's hope he lives up to the opportunity.

As time goes by I think many people like the Hatch version primarily because of all the good things Richard Hatch has done to keep the Galactica concept alive. I think people like the Desanto version because people convienced themselves it was good because for most of the time it was the only real hope of reviving the franchise. I think people hate the mini because it ruined the Desanto version which people were emotional invested in and because people can't get beyond Starbuck is a woman (even though I think she is really modeled after Sheba). Emotion trumps logic every time.

[Dawg]

Antelope, you can make connections all day about vague plot points. The mini-series was vastly different than Battlestar Galactica. TSC and DeSanto version where so close to what Battlestar Galactica is there is no mistaking it. I do have advantage of seeing alot of this.

This kind of says it for me, too, antelope. You're right in that TSC - Hatch's treatment - is the closest to just picking up where TOS left off. But - and it's a big but - you're mistaken in thinking the Moore version is closer to TOS than the DeSanto version. Ain't even close.

As I've said elsewhere, the DeSanto continuation was to be just that - a continuation. It left the TOS universe intact. It was updated to meet modern sensibilities and the expectations of a modern audience, but it was the BSG universe first created in 1978.

The Moore version did not even attempt to update the TOS universe, it simply replaced it. The characters did not come from TOS, the backstory is not TOS. It's a new universe entirely.

The rest is just nitpicky details.

You may not like what you've seen of the DeSanto story, the Hatch story, whatever. But there's no denying that both of those efforts would have taken place in the TOS universe. The Moore story does not. Period.

Make sense?

:salute:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Antelope]

I agree with you Dawg. I guess in my mind I am looking at what I think would be in the spirit of how I wished TOS would have continued if we had a season 2. I think BSG1980 is the story that best fits into the Battlestar Galactica universe. It had the original ship, the original uniforms, the original vipers, the original mythos, Lorne Green as Adama, an episode with Dirk Benedict as Starbuck, a grown up Boxey who is called Boxey (not Troy or Orin), it has elements of the ships of light with the gift of the boy genius (hated that idea!), the difference in human strength based on relative gravity (hated the idea) based on a theme of the Terra episodes. The true Battlestar Continuation was made and it was horrible with the exception of two or at most three episodes. To make ANY new continuation you have to alter the history of the Battlestar universe.

What did everyone modify:

Desanto/Hatch - Eliminate all of BSG 1980 and any ability to make episodes based on the 20 plus years between the end of TOS and their Continuation.

Moore - Alter the armistice so you can remake the best episodes of TOS (1st half of Saga of a Star World. Living Legend ?, and War of the Gods ?), same characters not names from the end of TOS, refight the cylons (According to TOS mythos the Galactica had escaped the cylons by the end of the season 1), human-cylons (true to Larson's effort at the end of BSG1980), a free hand to explain the next 20 years anyway you want. Terra was not found (yet if at all) and most people believe Terra was a screwed up half Earth story that was forced on Larson. Moore is removing all the warts that Larson was not happy with or made by mistake in TOS and BSG1980.

Any Hatch or Desanto continuation could be made once the Moore series ends so long as Moore's version never finds Earth while in production. It would by then probably fit into the Moore Galactica universe just as easily as long as the colonials wear the appropriate uniforms.

I will watch and cheer for any new Galactica effort but just like my feelings on BSG1980 I am more concerned about the plot of where the colonials are going than ensuring everything fits perfectly into the past.

If Moore's Galactica was called Battlestar Oceanius, the call signs were original and unknown to them they escaped in another direction from the real Galactica it would be a good show in its own right and please the hard core Galactica fan base but it would be a marketing disaster for SCIFI. They had to use the old name and show to sell it. We forget sometimes that the original was not the commercial success the network wanted. As such SCIFI has to alter something to make it in their eyes commercially successful. SCIFI altered things in Stargate SG1 from the original movie. They introduced new characters and/or new actors and they eliminated certain relationships. They made roles that were comedic when originally they were serious. SCIFI and Moore I think are doing what they think best to give Galactica a long run. I like some of their ideas. If it fails I will judge each episode on its own. Maybe a year from now I'll say the show was horrible but I liked these two or three episodes. I hope instead it is a commercial success and I hear Dawg say, "It's not the real Galactica but I enjoy the show and look forward to next season."

[Dawg]

Ha! ;)

You raise a couple of points I want to address (and I may have to split this up into more than one post as my lunch hour is rapidly concluding).

First, forget about G80 - put those events out of your mind entirely. 99% of the fans do, and Hatch and DeSanto certainly did.

BTW - TOS was cancelled by the bean counters, not by ratings. It was popular.

Desanto/Hatch - Eliminate all of BSG 1980 and any ability to make episodes based on the 20 plus years between the end of TOS and their Continuation.

Huh? Explain this. If G80 is disregarded, how does that preclude a story picking up 10 minutes after Hand of God concluded? Practically, however, the elapsed real-world time precludes it due to the aging of the actors - nobody'd believe Dirk Benedict is 28 now.

Moore - Alter the armistice so you can remake the best episodes of TOS (1st half of Saga of a Star World. Living Legend ?, and War of the Gods ?), same characters not names from the end of TOS, refight the cylons (According to TOS mythos the Galactica had escaped the cylons by the end of the season 1), human-cylons (true to Larson's effort at the end of BSG1980), a free hand to explain the next 20 years anyway you want. Terra was not found (yet if at all) and most people believe Terra was a screwed up half Earth story that was forced on Larson. Moore is removing all the warts that Larson was not happy with or made by mistake in TOS and BSG1980.

Again, I'm confused. You want Moore to change things again? He didn't even base his mini on TOS. The best he could do is steal certain aspects of the best episodes of BSG for "remake episodes." I say this from the perspective of the fact he did not use the TOS universe in concocting his universe.

FYI, Galactica hadn't escaped the Cylons - outrun them, outmaneuvered them in the short term, perhaps. But escaped? Who knows?

And how can Moore be "removing the warts from TOS BSG" when he didn't base his universe on the BSG universe at all?

(And there you go again, using information from G80 when we all know the events of G80 never happened.) ;)

(Also, FYI, Stargate the series premiered and ran for several years on Showtime before Sci-Fi got their hands on it.)

In your last paragraph, you make a statement that I do agree with, 100%:

They had to use the old name and show to sell it.

By the Lords of Kobol :rage:- antelope, if TOS was such a failure, why did they have to use it to sell this new one? Name recognition would be irrelevant if the show had actually been a failure. It wasn't. TOS BSG was a success - otherwise we would not be here talking about it.

That, right there, is the biggest issue I have with anyone who says TOS was only a marginally successful show (and that the Moore mini is so great in the same breath).

And this was not a simple altering, either. This was complete and total disregard for a successful formula. Period. (Although I know we disagree on this.) ;)

Anyway, back to work. I'll check in with you later.

:salute:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Boomer65]

BTW - TOS was cancelled by the bean counters, not by ratings. It was popular.
I read somewhere that TOS finished its first season at 24 which was not too bad but when you consider that each episode was (by all accounts) upwards of $750K (some say $1M) to produce? IMO, had TOS been in the top 5 or 10 it wouldn’t have been cancelled.

So, as antelope put it, was TOS a “commercial success”? If you define it as “ratings success” I’d say yes. If you define it as “profitable”…well I’d guess that The Jeffersons, Good Times, Six Million Dollar Man, or Chico and The Man had a better return on investment.

[shiningstar]

This kind of says it for me, too, antelope. You're right in that TSC - Hatch's treatment - is the closest to just picking up where TOS left off. But - and it's a big but - you're mistaken in thinking the Moore version is closer to TOS than the DeSanto version. Ain't even close.

As I've said elsewhere, the DeSanto continuation was to be just that - a continuation. It left the TOS universe intact. It was updated to meet modern sensibilities and the expectations of a modern audience, but it was the BSG universe first created in 1978.

The Moore version did not even attempt to update the TOS universe, it simply replaced it. The characters did not come from TOS, the backstory is not TOS. It's a new universe entirely.

The rest is just nitpicky details.

You may not like what you've seen of the DeSanto story, the Hatch story, whatever. But there's no denying that both of those efforts would have taken place in the TOS universe. The Moore story does not. Period.

Make sense?

:salute:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

:salute: It Makes PERFECT sense to me! :salute:

[shiningstar]

I read somewhere that TOS finished its first season at 24 which was not too bad but when you consider that each episode was (by all accounts) upwards of $750K (some say $1M) to produce? IMO, had TOS been in the top 5 or 10 it wouldn’t have been cancelled.

So, as antelope put it, was TOS a “commercial success”? If you define it as “ratings success” I’d say yes. If you define it as “profitable”…well I’d guess that The Jeffersons, Good Times, Six Million Dollar Man, or Chico and The Man had a better return on investment.

That's just It............ IT was a RATINGS success.

As Dawg said ...............it was cancelled by the BEAN COUNTERS ..........
not by the people.

{Speaking of "FINANCIAL" successes ......can anyone tell me .........just how
many MINI cast posters SOLD?} :warrior:

[nccdee]

Why was TOS cancelled? By Bean Counters...absolutely. Were they right to do so...absolutely. The main competition was ABC, NBC and CBS, everything else was in its infancy (cable, HBO, independant like TBS and WGN), so television advertising maket laid mostly with these three networks.

Was TOS popular, somewhat. Take a look at was popular at the time, Happy Days, Charlies Angles, MASH, and so on. These show where cheap to make.

TOS was not even in the top 20. Rating = audience and audience = advertising market and advertising = money. I don't know the rates for advertising in the 70s but I am sure the same principles apply as used today. Popular show you get more advertising money. Less popular, less money.

This was the most experience series at the time. The gamble was it had to be in the top 10 and anything less would have been a financial distaster and it was. I believe they were banking on Loren Greene to lead them after coming off the long running success of Bonanza.

As for Glen Larson, apparently studio like his ideas as long as it was cheaper to make, i.e. Knight right (an actor and a car), Magnum P.I. (detective in Hawaii), the Fall Guy (no brainer there, use the actual backlots of the studios).

Sci Fi series are big ambitious projects and very few have been successful, Star Trek and B5 have lasted more than 5 years (B5 had several TV movies to its credits).

TOS was a head of its time. Unfortunately, that time has arrive and they decided on a new vision.

The irony, the story is the same: Sci-Fi Channel making the most expensive series to date and gambling on the "name" and James Edward Olmos to delivery.

nccdee

[Antelope]

Remember I like TOS.

I know they brought back Galactica in the BSG1980 version because despite the cost nothing was doing better on Galactica's Sunday night time slot. The bean counters are at work now. Galactica has to make it financially. So far we have 13 one hour episodes to work with. We know that Living Legend is a give me so there is 2 episodes down right there. I believe we have a 2 part ship of light episode coming so there goes two more episodes. The guaranteed success of these four hours will already make more money than a continuation movie. We still get 9 more hours. Larson started in BSG1980 and Star Trek Voyager (7 of 9) and DS9 (Galron) proved in series that the enemy within story is a winner. I am sure we will get at least two hours out of this. The Starbuck love triangle was a winner in TOS so we can get about 2 hours worth of show out of this again with Tyrol/Boomer/Callie. Everyone wondered what would happen with Sheba and Apollo in TOS, Moore can milk this for 2 hours with Starbuck and Apollo. I am sure an episode or two will center on the Siress Tina/Adama relationship at the end of TOS using Adama and Roslin. That is worth at least another hour. All you need is a couple episodes based on a battle like when Adama was tired of running in TOS and guess what all thirteen episodes are done and they are all repeats of TOS or themes that were running at the end of TOS. They will do it this way (I speculate) because it is a proven winner and will guarantee a season 2. Moore will stay in the spirit of the best of TOS because it will make money.

Because the helmet doesn't look like an Egyptian head dress, Sheba is named Starbuck, and everyone has a last name some will never see that Moore is grabbing his themes from TOS. It amazes me that people accuse the mini of all kinds of changes that didn't happen. My favorites are the minority and female switch arguments. The total number of male and female starring and supporting actors at the end of TOS season 1 and the mini are the same. There is actually a net increase in minorities of 1 from TOS (TOS had 2 African American/Mini has 1 African American, 1 Asian, and 1 who is some combination of Hispanic/African American /and or Asian<and I'm not even considering Olmos as a Hispanic minority even though the U.S. government would!).

BSG1980 did happen whether we like to believe it or not. We can ignore it we want. As for Starbuck being 28 but Dirk Benedict isn't I say so what. My perfect continuation scenario is TOS Season 2. New actors play the old roles. I wouldn't mind seeing Dirk Benedict or Richard Hatch play Adama but it would confuse too many people. James Bond was played by many different actors. I don't think the roles have to be played by the originals. Unfortunately a 45 year old Cassie just won't work.

So far Moore remade one episode of TOS---Saga of A Star World. It had to be 4 hours long. Most TOS fans agree that the second half (Space Las Vegas aka Carillon) of Saga was not good. So Moore made a 4 hour show based on 60-90 good minutes from Saga of a Star World and the rest from In Harms Way (another proven winner) with a bit of a teaser for the series of the enemy within issue. He had a lot to do in a little time. Remake Saga of A Star World, fix the characters to reflect the series start (end of TOS), sex it up to sell in four hours, and throw some outrage out there to get the publicity it needed. It worked and now I have hope for a real Battlestar inspired series.

[shiningstar]

By Universal Studios own ADMISSION .........the SHOW was CANCELLED due to Monetary concerns and NOT because of RATINGS. This show was CANCELLED while OTHER shows which were well BELOW this show in the ratings were renewed. Rather then try to NEEDLESSLY ARGUE about the Nielson ratings for 1977 through 1978 ........................................ POST THEM on the site.

[Antelope]

I don't think anyone is arguing with you Shiningstar. Unfortunately unless a show is made on PBS all the ratings in the world are meaningless if the show can not get a normal television return on investment. TOS was a great show and a ratings success for its time slot. However it was a marginal financial success and when it was brought back a year after cancellation in the form of Galactica 1980 it was a financial failure. Today the cost of production in real dollars is cheaper and syndication opportunities greater but the first run market is much more segmented. The cost versus income ratio will once again decide the fate of this show. Unfortunately the bottom line of Scare Tactics may look better next year than the bottom line of the Moore series or any other perfect theoretical Battlestar series.

No one is trying to put down TOS. We are all frustrated with the economic reality all good space opera shows face. I think if Moore's series fails it will spell doom for all Galactica incarnations. I think that is a partial reason some of us want it to succeed warts and all.

[Dawg]

Antelope: Have you gone over to cylon.org and read through the BSG materials?

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

["T"]

Quick thought here, at the end of the Mini-series, Number six is heared to say:

"It could take decades to find them"


The Galactica jumped out into unknown space and earlier in the mini (for people who have not watched it) Apollo tells teh president there is no way to track an FTL jump......Now, does this mean that the 13 episodes coming may ditch some of the cylons and th Galactica (And Possibly Pegases) will be meeting new aliens as well as meeting cylons?

-"T"-

[Dawg]

Hehe - forehead of the week, here we come!

:devil: :laugh:

Actually, Moore said he doesn't want to do that (i.e. no budget so they can't afford alien makeup) - but we'll see.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Antelope]

Dawg:
I finally got through it. I was kind of let down. Don't get me wrong. I would be cheering for the Desanto continuation if we had no other Battlestar but I can see why SCIFI passed on the concept.

My main issues would be:
1. Why would you set up in an asteroid belt when in TOS you passed many habital planets and the whole Terra system?
2. Why would an untested Boxey be in charge if Starbuck was around?
3. How did Boxey managed to fund and build the secret vipers when the council is obviously anti-military?
4. The situation by the end of the movie would be dark and hopeless. Their situation is worse than the situation in the mini world.
5. I don't like Apollo as a captured cylon/borg.
6. How would any humans be left alive on the homeworlds 20 years after the halocaust?
7. Wouldn't you just farm people on the homeworlds rather than go through all the effort to round up what must be at most 10,000 people if as the story says people still exist on the home worlds. The colonials passed lesser human societies all over the place in TOS.
8. Colonials are still fat, dumb, and happy fools outside the military clique.

I have wondered if the mini humans are being herded by the cylons or a part of the cylons. This concept may be borrowed from Desanto if it turns out to be true.

The Desanto version does follow a biblical theme again. This time its the failure of the Israelites to follow their religion followed by the sack of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and the subsequent enslavement in a foreign land with Babylon equating to Cylon.

I saw that Larson once wanted to do a version that takes off on the Pegasus after their cylon battle. I think that is the best concept I have seen yet. You could do that version in either a Moore or TOS universe if they ever get the funding.

The Hatch effort seemed like a lost cause for legal reasons. If Hatch mortgaged his house to make the trailer he may need the work and we might just see him on the Moore series sooner than we think.

["T"]

Well I suppose then at least 4 of the new BSG series will be Character development :|

at least 2 Missions to get supplies from a nearby planet (ala ST Voyager which I always thoguht borrowed some ideas from BSG)

and some nifty big budget space shooters ala DS9 to keep the punters happy ;)

then if BSG's history repeats it will be cancelled and a new 30 year following will begin! :)

-"T"-

["T"]

That Pegases version sounds interesting, pity Lloyd bridges is dead, but with Cain it would be all action and little else, Galactica was the "family camper" Battlestar Pegases was a mean still fighting machine! :)

-"T"-

[Boomer65]

1. Why would you set up in an asteroid belt when in TOS you passed many habital planets and the whole Terra system?
2. Why would an untested Boxey be in charge if Starbuck was around?
3. How did Boxey managed to fund and build the secret vipers when the council is obviously anti-military?
4. The situation by the end of the movie would be dark and hopeless. Their situation is worse than the situation in the mini world.
5. I don't like Apollo as a captured cylon/borg.
6. How would any humans be left alive on the homeworlds 20 years after the halocaust?
7. Wouldn't you just farm people on the homeworlds rather than go through all the effort to round up what must be at most 10,000 people if as the story says people still exist on the home worlds. The colonials passed lesser human societies all over the place in TOS.
8. Colonials are still fat, dumb, and happy fools outside the military clique.
1. I’d imagine if the fleet had gone a dozen yaren without seeing a cylon they could conceivably become complacent. In the series they were constantly hounded.
2. Starbuck is a rogue – a better pilot than leader IMO and not a statesman at all.
3. Secret vipers = secret “black” budget money.
4. My problem with this is you can’t end Movie #1 with a huge cliffhanger. Movie #2 is okay, but not Movie #1.
5. I do agree that it would be too easy to lampoon the connection to the borg.
6. There are tons of post-apocalypse movies where humans have survived. This is not new.
7. That always bugged me about TOS – you’d think they’d want to round up all the humans they came across.
8. Human nature.

If Hatch mortgaged his house to make the trailer he may need the work and we might just see him on the Moore series sooner than we think.
Wait until the royalties start coming in from the DVD sales.

[jewels]

I don't know if this is correct or not, but I don't think 1978 series contracts had the types of residual agreements for actors that more recent series do. They may not be getting pay for anything other than for doing the documentary/commentary bits on the DVD.

Unfortunate if I'm right, but that's why SAG has more protection for the actors in more recent contract work: they realized everyone needs to benefit from the longevity that syndication and video sales give a series.

[shiningstar]

I don't think anyone is arguing with you Shiningstar. Unfortunately unless a show is made on PBS all the ratings in the world are meaningless if the show can not get a normal television return on investment. TOS was a great show and a ratings success for its time slot. However it was a marginal financial success and when it was brought back a year after cancellation in the form of Galactica 1980 it was a financial failure. Today the cost of production in real dollars is cheaper and syndication opportunities greater but the first run market is much more segmented. The cost versus income ratio will once again decide the fate of this show. Unfortunately the bottom line of Scare Tactics may look better next year than the bottom line of the Moore series or any other perfect theoretical Battlestar series.

No one is trying to put down TOS. We are all frustrated with the economic reality all good space opera shows face. I think if Moore's series fails it will spell doom for all Galactica incarnations. I think that is a partial reason some of us want it to succeed warts and all.
According to NCCDEE ...........BSG didn't even make it in the TOP twenty of the ratings. MY point of the POST was .............POST the ratings from the Nielson ratings for 1977 to 1978 in order to PROVE once and for all that BSG was cancelled due to bean counters and NOT POOR RATINGS.

[nccdee]

Below are some link to website that have rank listing of show for the 1978 season. Battlestar Galactica aired on ABC on Sunday nights (8pm EST), following the Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys Mystery. Galactica did not make the top 30 shows.

My post was to point out that Galactica was canceled due to financial reasons, and not due to "low rating". Yes, shows that ranked lower than Galactica survived because they were cheaper to produce and therefore were about to generate profits.

http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv-ratings-70s.htm#78-79 (http://)

http://lostmind.100megsfree2.com/ratings/1977_1978.htm (http://)

http://www.80sxchange.com/80s_charts/tv.htm (http://)

http://www.notationmachine.com/cgi-bin/topTV_database.pl (http://)

http://www.superseventies.com/1978.html (http://)

[Boomer65]

My post was to point out that Galactica was canceled due to financial reasons, and not due to "low rating".
POST the ratings from the Nielson ratings for 1977 to 1978 in order to PROVE once and for all that BSG was cancelled due to bean counters and NOT POOR RATINGS.
ShiningStar – No one is saying that BSG had poor ratings! The sad fact is that a show rated much lower than BSG was still probably more PROFITABLE because it was cheaper to produce.

This is not to spin anyone up but let’s be honest – does anyone believe that BSG would have been cancelled had it been in the top 5? I certainly don’t. It would be correct to say that it was cancelled because it was too expensive to produce. It would also be correct to say that its ratings were (by most standards) decent. But what some of us are saying is that the show’s ratings (which translates to advertising revenue) were not high *enough* to sustain the production costs.

[shiningstar]

1. I’d imagine if the fleet had gone a dozen yaren without seeing a cylon they could conceivably become complacent. In the series they were constantly hounded.
2. Starbuck is a rogue – a better pilot than leader IMO and not a statesman at all.
3. Secret vipers = secret “black” budget money.
4. My problem with this is you can’t end Movie #1 with a huge cliffhanger. Movie #2 is okay, but not Movie #1.
5. I do agree that it would be too easy to lampoon the connection to the borg.
6. There are tons of post-apocalypse movies where humans have survived. This is not new.
7. That always bugged me about TOS – you’d think they’d want to round up all the humans they came across.
8. Human nature.


Wait until the royalties start coming in from the DVD sales.

You've made some great points Boomer. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Antelope]

Shiningstar:
They brought back Galactica because after the fact the network came to believe the ratings TOS had for its TIME SLOT were pretty good. One can wonder today that if TOS was on a different night of the week or on a different time slot it may have never been cancelled. I remember hearing that 60 minutes, also on Sunday night made almost as much ad revenue but was produced on a fraction of Galacticas budget.

[shiningstar]

Shiningstar:
They brought back Galactica because after the fact the network came to believe the ratings TOS had for its TIME SLOT were pretty good. One can wonder today that if TOS was on a different night of the week or on a different time slot it may have never been cancelled. I remember hearing that 60 minutes, also on Sunday night made almost as much ad revenue but was produced on a fraction of Galacticas budget.

That's true but for that too have happened Universal would have had to
stand behind Bsg ........They never did. If they had supported BSG the way
that Star Trek had been supported or many of the westerns that lasted
a decade and beyond then YES it's true that BSG would never have been
cancelled. But between the Networks and Universal Studios .........BSG
based on the money that it cost to produce and the fact that the studios
weren't to fond of Scifi flicks ........was DOOMED.