I Found The Computer That Was Used In Battlestar Galactica!

[vectrex70]

The computer is the Tektronix 4051 Graphics System .I found it by accident when at this link below:

http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/jcgm-mic.shtml

This link says it was used on the show. Unfortunately this site is in the process of closing down. so the there is nothing else but the info on that page. The Picture is all the way down the page.

It uses a Storage tube vector graphics display technology. To understand how it works, and why the displays have that strange glow, I present some paragraphs from this link:
http://www.cca.org/vector/

Storage tube vector graphics terminals differ from refreshing vector graphics terminals in that the display stored whatever was drawn on it, and did not have to be refreshed many times a second in order to maintain a continuous image. One problem with refreshing vector displays is that they must continuously scan through the list of objects they are displaying, redrawing them as fast as possible, to maintain a visible image. Unlike a raster device where the path the electron beam follows is always the same, and always takes the same amount of time to follow, the path the electron beam follows on a vector display takes longer and longer as more objects are drawn. Therefore once a certain number of lines are being displayed, the display begins to flicker. Display list memory also limited the number of line segments that could be viewed simultaneously.

To get around these problems, the storage tube was used. In a storage tube, there are actually two electron guns. One draws lines on the screen, the other bathes the entire display in electrons at a lower intesity. This second beam keeps any phospher that has been activated continuously illuminated. Thus when a line has been drawn with the first beam, the second beam keeps it lit. Therefore the terminal only has to draw a line once, and it remains on the screen. There is no flicker, and no problem with having lots and lots of objects on the screen at once.

The trade-off is that it cannot erase anything except by clearing the entire screen. Therefore you cannot have motion or any sort of animation on the screen. Later displays got around this by using a lower-intensity mode for drawing which was not intense enough for the phospher to remain lit by the second beam. When it wanted to draw a permenant line, it still could, by increasing the intensity of the drawing beam for that one object. Later tektronics terminals did this. The early models did not, except for the special cases of the cursor, and displaying cross-hairs to let the user select a point.

Some more Links:

http://www.atariarchives.org/bcc2/showpage.php?page=282
This Link describes in detail about the console. Shows the Computer with a screen Image, in a black and white picture.

http://www.tekscope-museum.de/4050_Stuff/4050_stuff.html
This Link says it was the Tectronix 4050 that was used in BSG. I have all the episodes on tape. When watching the episodes, the 4051 looks like the real deal.

Because Most of the web pages show the computer off, the only Page that shows an image
that comes close is this link:

http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2/tek4010/
This is not the 4051 but it is a decent picture of These type of Displays. It is a color picture. Notice that familiar faint glow of the screen, it looks like the vector images on BSG.


The only problem is this computer console is a very rare item. I could not find it on ebay. If it ever shows up, I want this little gem for my collection. I hope that you enjoy this thread.

[shiningstar]

Vectrex thanks for posting this.

On BSG they looked so easy and COOL to use!
Then I had to work with some ....................

I hated those computers.
They were constantly blowing CIRCUITS!

I remember one job I had, I lost THREE computers
within TWO HOURS because of BLOWN circuits!:eek: :rolleyes:

[shiningstar]

By the way Vectrex ........ Welcom to the club :D

[jjrakman]

I dub thee the Official BSG Computer Historian. Welcome to Colonial fleets.

[Muffit]

Great find Vectrex! Thanks so much for the tech info. I love stuff like that! :)

I thought those were vector displays since the text did not look pixel-based. I remember those early days, a couple arcade games used vector displays as well. In fact, one was my absolute fav, called Tail Gunner. It used a blue vector display inside a booth with massive 3D subwoofer sound. Loved it!!!

:muffit:

[Dawg]

I used one of those in my job a couple thousand years ago.....

:eek:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[thomas7g]

I loved the old Battlezone tank game. Also Asteroids and a few other goodies. :D

[nightscape2112]

very cool find, also very nice to meet you. welcome to the fleets.

nightscape

[shiningstar]

I loved the tail gunner game, Muffit!

[Muffit]

Hi Shiningstar! So glad you knew about it and liked it too! :)
:muffit:

[shiningstar]

I loved Asteriods too. I still have that one!

[space1999.dk]

Hi Everybody;
I am suprised that I got so many responses so fast in this thread. I appreciate the welcome! Thanks.

To shiningstar : If you are reading this, When you worked on the Tek 4051, do you remember which of the circuits had the most problems? was it the Power Suppy to the CRTs or was it the mother boards? The reason I ask is, if I find this computer on ebay someday, I would like to know what I am Up against. I am sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with this type of computer.

To jjrakman: Thanks for the honor. Is your avatar the new verson of a Living Cylon? Is this Cylon going to be used in the movie?

To muffit: I never saw that game in my town, but I just looked it up on the internet and found out this game was made by Cinematronics. My favorite game is Star Castle!

To Dawg: Did you had a bad experience with the Tek 4051, like shiningstar did?

To Conundrum7g: I also Love Battlezone.I found out that they made two types of that game, I played the version you had to look through a veiw finder. I see you like 7 days. What's your favorite episode?

To Nightscape2112: It is nice to meet you too. I am glad that you enjoyed this thread.

Again thanks for the Hospitality!
:woof:

[Muffit]

Hey Vectrex and Shiningstar, here's an interesting site...

http://caesar.logiqx.com/html/emus/multi/cinelator95/tailg.shtml

Unfortunately, the emulator does not have sound (sigh). That was the best part...

:muffit:

[Muffit]

Ooh! Memory lane! I guess it was TailGunner II that I liked. TailGunner I was not in a booth. The sound was awesome - yet it was mono!

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=10013

:muffit:

[shiningstar]

It was BOTH! The day I lost three computers in one
day due to the circuits blowing or shorting out .........
The computer tech said that BOTH the Power Supplys and
the Mother Boards were 'damaged'. After that I
WANTED to go BACK to the VACUUM TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

All I can say NOW is THANK GOD for Microsoft and Bill Gates!

[shiningstar]

Muffit thanks for the link. It bought back so many
FUNNNNNNNNN Memorys! :thumbsup:

[Muffit]

Originally posted by shiningstar
Muffit thanks for the link. It bought back so many
FUNNNNNNNNN Memorys! :thumbsup:

:D

[Proximo]

Originally posted by shiningstar
It was BOTH! The day I lost three computers in one
day due to the circuits blowing or shorting out .........
The computer tech said that BOTH the Power Supplys and
the Mother Boards were 'damaged'. After that I
WANTED to go BACK to the VACUUM TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

All I can say NOW is THANK GOD for Microsoft and Bill Gates!

*cough* I think you actually mean thank god for IBM. :)

[Ethan]

Holy - - - - !!!!

I didn't know anyone remembered the tailgunner game but me. I played it once back in some arcade here in Las Vegas back in like. . . 1979 but it was the coolest thing next to Battlezone.

Talk about flashbacks . . .

Ethan

[Muffit]

Hi Ethan! Welcome to Colonial Fleets! Yep, to be honest, I was never much of an arcade gamer (lost my quarters too fast), but TailGunner II had me hooked. If I remember right, it was double the other games - 50 cents a pop. But I didn't care, that wraparound sound was awesome!

Glad you remember it too! :) And thanks Vectrex for starting this thread! :)
:muffit:

[shiningstar]

welcome to the club Ethan.

As for IBM ............ I spent almost as much
DOWNTIME on their stuff as I did with the Techtronix
computers and their burnt circuit and mother boards
LOL ............... I pretty much stayed away from
computers until Bill Gates and MSN after that.

[vectrex70]

Originally posted by shiningstar
It was BOTH! The day I lost three computers in one
day due to the circuits blowing or shorting out .........
The computer tech said that BOTH the Power Supplys and
the Mother Boards were 'damaged'. After that I
WANTED to go BACK to the VACUUM TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

All I can say NOW is THANK GOD for Microsoft and Bill Gates!

I can see why this computer is so rare! I originally thought that tektronix was a company that produce the highest quality of electronic products. This system might have been a victim of a rush production, or they were just careless in the design. Anyway I was hoping that I could find this piece of history for my collection. It would have been cool to get this computer so you could progrm your own vectorscan video games! or to use it for Battlestar Galatica roll playing games. The possibilities would be endless!

[vectrex70]

Thanks for the links Muffit. Espacially the second one. The Killer List Of Video Games Web Page has a lot of the games that was in my town espaceilly ripoff and star castle. It also has Cosmic Chasm, This game first appeared for the Vectrex home video game system produced by CGE. Also This was the first home game to be converted into a commercial arcade game!

[vectrex70]

Thanks for the links Muffit. Especially the second one. The Killer List Of Video Games Web Page has a lot of the games that was in my town especially ripoff and star castle. It also has Cosmic Chasm, This game first appeared for the Vectrex home video game system produced by CGE. Also This was the first home game to be converted into a commercial arcade game!

[Muffit]

Your quite welcome Vectrex! :) It was fun to find these!

Oh, and don't be too hard on Tektronix. As I remember, computers and video displays (when they had one) were nearly always broken wherever I worked in the late 70's and early 80's, regardless of brand. Quality just wasn't taken seriously enough back then. As an example, I had something like 5 Commodore 64's and my friend had 3 - they were ALL broken after only a month (which is why we had so many). And I cannot tell you how many people I knew who had IBM ATs that were being used as expensive paperweights. Miniframes from this period didn't fare any better.

Luckily, today video displays are extremely reliable, as are most of the computers that drive them. We've just graduated from the "being able to do something at all" age to the "being able to do it well" age. At least IMHO...

:muffit:

[space1999.dk]

Sorry for the double post. I was having problems with my computer while I was trying to correct the spelling for the post to muffit.

I just wish more of these computers was made so I can get my hands on one. I see muffit you had the Commodore 64, I had one too. I had a friend that was a hacker for the commoder 64, and pirated games for it!

[Muffit]

Hi again Vectrex! Actually, the C64 was not my system of choice. I only had it cuz it was the only (affordable) system with a MIDI music sequencer back then. That's all I used it for. I think I've had just about every micro there is(!) Each has been good in at least one area, while none was good at everything. I even ran into a complete development kit for an Atari 800 at a garage sale, so I played around with writing some stuff for it, just for ducks.

I actually miss the old days. I think the label "PC" is a misnomer now. The IBM compatible is definitely /not/ a personal computer, however it is a good small business computer. A PC is something you love so much it's almost like a friend and you hate to see it go (at least that's how us 'puter folk felt back then). We don't see that nowadays, instead we can't wait to upgrade to get around all the things it can't do (and yelling at something constantly does not endear it any). :)

Anywho, that's how I remember those days...

:muffit:

[space1999.dk]

The C64 was not my system of choice either. My system of choice was the Vectrex System made by GCE. It was a complete self contained system. It had a 9x5 vertical B&W vectorscan monitor with a built in asteroids clone called Minestorm. It came out with a total of 50 vector graphic games before the video game crash in 1984. Each game came with a cartridge, manual and a colored cover overlay. The overlay was needed to give the illusion of color and reduce the flickering, due to the fact this was a refreshing vector graphics monitor. This system showed great promise. It came out with a light pen so you can draw images on the screen, and a 3D imager goggles so you could play special 3D games. I got both of these. It was going to come out with a computer keyboard attachment with the ability to program in BASIC. Also an improved vectrex with a full colored monitor was in the works. Unfortunately this did not happen and they stopped making everything in 1983. There are vectrex computer keyboard prototypes out there but like the tektronix 4051, I will probably never see it in my lifetime. If it ever shows up on ebay, it would be worth thousands of dollars, something I do not have. But there is still hope for this system, there are a lot of assembly language programmers that are still making games for this system, and hardware system specialists that are makeing special attachments for the vectrex. It's just a matter of time someone out there with hardware and software talents may make a keyboard attachment. I hope that happens soon. The possibilies of this system is unlimited. Even though you could make a Battlestar Galactica vectorscan game, Or an 64K interactive roll playing game with assemblers and with a seperate PC, It would be alot easier to program in basic and a keyboard would be less hardware then the special conversion hardware for a PC.

If anyone is reading this and does not know what the Vectrex System is, Here is a very good link:

http://www.classicgaming.com/vectrex/

As for PCs muffit I agree with you a 100 Percent. In the early days of the PC, they were cool and reasonably affordable. Then When IBM and Apple came out with very expensive PCs with closed architecture it changed everthing for a brief while. When PC clones came out, it forced these very expensive PCs and Apple to compete with them. If it were not for the IBM Clones, PCs would probably be over $5000 today! But the down side is PC Clones are making proprietary base systems and open architecure is getting scarce again. I like the nonproprietary base systems because you can gradually upgrade and you save a lot of money. But with proprietary systems you have a limited ability to upgrade and ultimatly have to by a whole new system every 5 years. Also They are a Real Pain to open and Install things.

[Darth Marley]

I taught myself assembly language on the old C64 way back then.
Actually,I learned several programming languages. Too bad I never got a degree or a programming job.
I see all these kids using Visual Basic and selling these toys to companies for big bucks and just have to laugh.

I have one of the last versions of the scaled down Amiga's in the original box in a closet somewhere. The first Amigas I thought were pretty exciting.

[space1999.dk]

Hi Darth Marley
Thanks for dropping By!
I see you have a new Avatar. So you learned assembly on the C64, Did you use the Assembly Cart? I never had an Amiga but I did research on them. One website claims that they Used Amigas to do the Special Effects for Babylon 5!

[space1999.dk]

To Proximo and Ethan:

Welcome to my Thread! It's Nice to Meet You!

Sincerely Vectrex70

[Darth Marley]

I really don't know what you mean by assembly cart.(Cartridge?)

I just got a macro assembler on disk and a book.
I also did some disassembling of their DOS and Kernal.
Quite educational.
Amigas were used in many video productions before Macs cut their teeth.

[space1999.dk]

I made a mistake in reading my C64 Manual, I was confusing the "Assembler 64" with "Super Expander 64" Cart that would expand the basic. This was in the back of the book on page 134. I just reread it and found my mistake.

It's cool that you learned Assembly. It's a hard language to learn.

[Darth Marley]

Its not hard really.
I read an old book called "Nailing Jelly to a Tree" that makes a strong case for learning assembler/machine code before learning a high level language.

[space1999.dk]

Thanks for the Title. I'll try to get that book from my library.

[Proximo]

I was just a few years too young for the C64, though I did end up with a nifty Amiga 500+, with 2mb memory upgrade and a nice 40mb hard drive... ahh, a whole 40mb! So much. :D My only regret is that it wouldn't run Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters, which I used to play on my mate's A500. The + seemed to break it.

Back then my dream was an A4000 with a toaster board and Lightwave, because I had just seen an article about what it could do. I thought Amiga would rule the world. :)

Muffit: I might normally have agreed with you about PC being a misnomer, but in my case I'm not so sure it is. I've had the same computer since 1992 or 3. I know, not as long as some people have lived but I'm only young (23 hehe). Anyway, I still call it teh same computer even though none of the original parts are there any more. It's sort of slowly evolved as I've upgraded it and replaced bits, but it has never, never lost the slight personality it somehow acquired. Slightly senile, recalictrant and sometimes unwilling to do what I want, but friendly in its own little way... ;) *pats the computer* It'#s almost like a friend.

Sad, eh? ;)

[shiningstar]

Thanks for posting Vectrex. I taught myself computer
operations and a small level of programming on the
radio shack color computers that could be hooked into
the color TV. I then learned moved on to the more
expensive radio shack computers then IBM which I hated
with a PASSION cause they weren't much better then the
Tecktronix computers that I had to work with at my jobs, then ............. THANK GOD .......... ALONG came BILL!

[space1999.dk]

Your welcome Shiningstar and Thank you for keeping the thread going! I have a question for you, Is it true when Bill Gates came on the seen, he made a deal with IBM to have exclusive rights to his operating system?

[space1999.dk]

Do you know what the Tektronix 4051, The Vectrex, and, The Amiga have in Common?
They all use Motorola Microprocessers!

The Tektronix 4051 uses the Motorola 6800
The Vectrex uses the Motorola 6809
The Amiga Computers uses The Motorola 68000 up to 68060!

[shiningstar]

I didn't know that!

[Muffit]

Hi all!

My first (and favorite) computer language was assembly. You could do so much more with it than BASIC. Suddenly all the doors opened and you could write music, arcade games, you name it. First I learned 6502 (used by Apple, C64, Atari, etc). Don't laugh, in the beginning I didn't know what an assembler was, so I hand coded everything in hexadecimal (and pictures in binary). Later I discovered Merlin and was /so/ happy. After the 8 bit processors became outdated, I learned 68000, which in my humble opinion is the /best/ processor instruction set ever conceived. A child could write code using it, and adults could really sing. I never really got into 6800 though. For work I had to learn the Intel set, which I'm sad to say I hated completely. You'd have to be a masochist to write code in that language! (What were they thinking?) I wrote in it anyway though, cuz it's still faster than C for graphics ops.

Nowadays C/C++ compilers are pretty efficient, and of course it's an easy language (and C is pretty much mandatory now cuz nobody would be crazy enough to write in MIPS).

Thanks for the info on the Vectrex, vectrex70! It sounds like it was a really great system. It's so sad that it seems like this world will only allow 1 computer system to thrive, when therre are so many good alternatives out there that deserve a chance.

Cheers,
Muffit
:muffit:

[Darth Marley]

Does anyone have an update on the gC compiler?
Basicly the plan was for it to be a compiler for various video cards with a common C style instruction set,eliminating the need to use assembler for serious graphics apps across various hardware.

[shiningstar]

That I don't know Vectrex ....... I only knew that what
he did WORKED and I didn't have to go through
several different computers to do one task.

[space1999.dk]

Hi Shiningstar:
The reason I asked you that question, I saw a TV Movie On TNT Called Pirates of Silicon Valley, With Anthony Michael Hall as Bill Gates. It was a docudrama About the fight between IBM and Apple. I was wondering if this movie is accurate in anything and if you ever see it, give me your opinion.

[Proximo]

A potted history of Microsoft:

The first MS operating system, MS DOS, was based on a cheap knock-off of a far superior system called DR Dos. MS Dos was full of buggy code, errors and all kinds of stuff. Despite all the talk, Windows WP still contains a large portion of the code from that original DOS.

Bill Gates was and is an unscrupulous man, preferingto let other people take the risks so he could rip them off. He's an unethical businessman. Simple as that.

Anyway, a good potted history can be found here (http://www.mackido.com/History/Gates_a_Genius.html).

:)

[space1999.dk]

Hi Proximo
Thanks for the link! I just saved it in my favorites folder. Did you see Pirates of Silicon Valley when It was on TNT a few years ago? The link that you gave in your post, and the show had some similarities.

[Proximo]

I missed it.

[shiningstar]

I haven't seen it vectrex. But then I never take a
movie seriousely unless all the parties involved gave
their ok to do it. I remember reading about it. I don't
think Bill Gates was too fond of it ......If I recall correctly.

[vectrex70]

Hi Proximo:
You said that in an earlier post that you ended up with an Amiga 500 Plus. Did that Amiga had a Graphical User Interface or do you know of any later Amigas that had developed their own GUI?

[vectrex70]

Hi Shiningstar:
In an earlier post you said that you taught yourself computer operations with radioshack computers. Most of those computers used BASIC, Did you ever learn Assembly?

Oh by the way I had researched the TRS-80 Color Computer and I also Found Out That This Computer Used the Motorola 6809 Microprocessor!
Here Is More Info!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Color_Computer

[shiningstar]

I tried to learn assembly. Being autistic it was
really difficult for me. I was much better at
basic then assembly language.
By the way, Thanks for the link Vectrex!
LOVEEEEEEEEED IT! :thumbsup:

[Muffit]

Originally posted by vectrex70
Hi Proximo:
You said that in an earlier post that you ended up with an Amiga 500 Plus. Did that Amiga had a Graphical User Interface or do you know of any later Amigas that had developed their own GUI?

Hi Vectrex,

I didn't have an Amiga but there were several at work and am pretty sure they had both a GUI and a command line interface. There were 2 new 32/16 bit computers that came out around 1985 that were adverstised as "Color Macs", the Amiga and the Atari ST. The latter definitely had a GUI (it used DR's GEM), but there was a third party command line tool as well. Both used the 68000. The Amiga was a long awaited sequel to the Atari 800, sporting special coprocessors which made it really powerful (although the primary interface/boot stuff was awful). It's interesting to note that the Amiga was originally being developed for Atari, but ended up changing hands to Commodore when Atari started to go under. Mr. Tramiel then left Commodore (which he had built into quite a big company) and actually bought /Atari/!!! He tried to bring the Amiga with him but lost out, so he came up with the ST. The competition between the 2 computers made sure neither was successful. Too bad, they were both pretty nice. The Amiga games were far far better than any other computer at the time, while the ST had built in MIDI and great MIDI sequencers for cheap, and so was the music machine of choice.

Hope this is helpful...
:muffit:

[Proximo]

IMO, the amiga gui was far superior to most of the competitors of the time. It was similiarly styled to Mac OS, but there were major differences and it was far more intuitive - inasmuch as putting folders in windows is intuitive... ;) I don't recall Amiga ever using anything other than their Workbench gui for their OS. There was a command-line interface available within Workbench, called Amiga Shell creatively enough, but that was for background scripting and the like. :) Course, I wasn't exactly in to the scene back then. It's possible the earlier Amigas had command-line only, but the fact that their default OS was a GUI was one of the few small things that they made them superior to the IBM compatibles of the day.

I remember the sound on my A500 was incredible. It wasn't midi, but sampled sounds played in sequenced tracks, so it sounded a lot better. :) Twas alltogether nifty... in another world, they might hold a similar market position to the Mac now.

[shiningstar]

Thanks for the info Proximo ...... :thumbsup:

[Muffit]

Hi Proximo,

I had the good fortune to visit a developer many years ago which wanted to show off their developer kit, which happened to be running on an Amiga. It was truly amazing, years ahead of any other development kit on any other system. They had gads of windows running separate apps simultaneously. They could build 68000 programs for just about any system. It was a top of the line Amiga though, whatever the most expensive one was back then. But it was far better than Mac or PC dev systems, which were still mired in command line interfaces with only a single window/screen (the Mac even had to use a command line tool to develop stuff).

Also, the abilities of Amiga game versions were far superior to any other system of the day, even complete with mirrored images in water. So sad the system didn't catch on.

:muffit:

[Proximo]

I know, it's a real shame, but I guess it was just the high cost of producing all the parts.

I never got my A4000... :) Had to settle for a 486 instead.

[space1999.dk]

Hi guys
I'm sorry that I was not around for a couple of days, I had to keep the phone lines open, Because My Niece was having a baby, and today she just gave birth to a baby girl! I promise that I will be back on monday so keep the thread going, until then Thanks!

[shiningstar]

Mozaltov Vectrex.

[Muffit]

Originally posted by vectrex70
Hi guys
I'm sorry that I was not around for a couple of days, I had to keep the phone lines open, Because My Niece was having a baby, and today she just gave birth to a baby girl! I promise that I will be back on monday so keep the thread going, until then Thanks!

Congrats Vectrex! :)
:muffit:

[space1999.dk]

Hi Guys :
Im sorry that I took so long to get back, I saw that Baby and She is cute! Thanks for the Congrats!

I see that they change the front of the colonial fleets page, I don't see the webpage link anymore, only the forum link.

[Dawg]

Vectrex - congrats on the sub-niece! ;)

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[space1999.dk]

Hi Dawg
Thanks for the congrats! In a Previous post you said that you worked with the Tek 4051, Did you have a good experiece with those computers or did you have similar problems with them like shiningstar did?

[Dawg]

They worked fine for me, Vectrex. My use was actually fairly minimal - running test data on component parts - and I really don't remember clearly because it was a thousand years ago, but I think I only recall once or twice when it failed.

Not that we had any trouble getting it fixed or replaced. ;)

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[shiningstar]

I could only 'wish' that they worked that way for me.
:rolleyes:

[vectrex70]

Thanks for the info Dawg.
It is good to hear that you had a good experience with the Tek 4051. I just wish this computer was popular enough (like the Vectrex System) so I can obtain it for my collection!

[vectrex70]

Hi Shinningstar
Thanks for the congrats!