What do you consider as "Official" Galactica?

[Bijou88]

I wonder if there is any consensus on what counts as "official" Battlestar Galactica. If you were to create a chronology of events in the Battlestar Galactica universe, what would you include? Obviously, the original series is official. Over the years, there have been many adventures published beyond the televised episodes. Do the Marvel Comics series count? They were an officially licenced product. How about books by Berkley? They were licenced by Universal as well. When you go beyond the era of the original series, things get a bit sticky because they often contradict each other. The Maximum comics series has the Galactica finding Earth in the dinosaur days. Galactica 1980 (groan) has them reaching earth in (duh) 1980. Richard Hatch's novels conflict things that occured in the Maximum press books (or the other way around depending on your point of view.) Should fan fiction published on the net count? Personally, I consider the Marvel, Maximum and Realm Press comics as part of the canon. I also think that the Berkley books should also be included. I have not read all of Mr. Hatch's works to comment on them authoritatively. Galactica 1980 is not part of the universe (except for maybe the flash back portion of "The Return of Starbuck".) The Sci Fi Channel miniseries does NOT count because it has nothing to do with the original series in any way, shape or form. What do my fellow fans think? What do you consider official?

[Charybdis]

I consider what happened on the TV series as Official, nothing else.

But that also leaves us with the black sheep known as Galactica 1980!!!! Oh well...

[radama]

Originally posted by Charybdis
I consider what happened on the TV series as Official, nothing else.

But that also leaves us with the black sheep known as Galactica 1980!!!! Oh well...
That's OK.That's how Paramount feels about "Star Trek" the animated series!:laugh:

[Belloby]

Only BSG. No 1980, no 2003.

[Artemis]

I think it is the original episodes plus the 14 Berkley books, they were mostly just the episodes with more depth, except the last few books but they may have been story ideas for the 2nd season. I would not include G80 since it was a cheap rip off to try to make up for their mistake of canceling the series in the first place. BG2003 can't be considered canon because it is not compatible with the existing universe of Galactica.

My two cubits. :colwar:

[Charybdis]

I don't know, the books directly contradict the original series. For example, the novelization of Saga of a Star World had the higher brains and all that of cyborg Cylons and of course, the series only had robotic Cylons...

it's a hard call.

[Bijou88]

I like to think that Battlestar Galactica is a very big tapestry that allows for new, non-televised stories to be introduced into the canon. While the series is the core of the mythos, I think elements from officially licenced sources can be introduced. The Marvel comics show how Baltar is rescued fom the tomb on Kobol by Lucifer. It also reveals the true fate of Adama's wife on Caprica. Other stories relate Sire Uri's attempt to take over the fleet while Adama is incapacitated. The Berkley books gave us more insight into Cylon society. The business of the multi-brained Imperious Leader was always viewed by me as extra memory and analysis capacity rather than actual organic brains. The Maximum press comics gave the name "Seraphs" to the angelic beings from "War of the Gods." In the end, It is left to the individual fan as to what is to be regarded as "real" events in the Galactica universe. I just love the show so much that the precious few episodes of the series are not enough. There is a burning desire for more. Too bad Moore just doesn't get it.

[Darth Marley]

This was just the sort of question I was going to ask fans of TOS.
I take the opinion that myths must be revised and updated for new audiences.But hey,that is just me and other mini-fans.
The issue of canonic continuity has come up in many other shows,movies,and comics.
Any recommendations on sites for BSG continuity glitches?
As far as TOS goes, G80 must be discarded,and only rely on the aired episodes.

[GreggAllinson]

The way I look at it, the '78 series has precedence over everything else...unless another source comes up with a better idea. For example: the Cylons of the novels are a much more fascinating bunch than the TV robots, so go with them.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of a "re-imagining" because it would provide us with a great opportunity to weave all these disparate threads into a cohesive tapestry. My problem with Moore's "re-imagining", of course, is the fact that it jettisoned so much of what gave Galactica its identity. But if somebody were to come along and shuffle the novels (both the old school Thurston variety and the Hatch ones), comics, TV show, and movie into one coherant new whole, I'd be all for it.

[dru]

Canon is a flexible issue. Clearly even in the tv classic something didn't make sense but that series, now on DVD, is the "holy writ" as it were. At best, the flashback of "The Return of Starbuck" is the only piece of Galactica 1980 that worth noting.

I suppose some bits can be used to 'fill in' where it would never be contradicted by the classic series: Lucifer rescuing Baltar since Baltar was clearly rescued but we never saw how and never will since Colicos is departed.

I don't know if anyone has studied the episodes enough to develop a 'show bible' or TOS encyclopedia from what was on screen: character histories and profiles, Colonial and Cylon histories and so forth. Never contradicted deleted scenes on the new DVD should be noted as well, if perhaps footnoted as "deleted" material. That would be a handy project for classic fandom or any "continuation", I think.

[Charybdis]

Go check out Susan Paxton's BSG Concordance site. She has the most extensive BSG Encyclopedia there is...


http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/content2.html

[Bijou88]

As a hobby, I make chronologies of TV shows. I use the "Star Trek Chronology" model devised by Micheal and Denise Okuda. With this model, everything that is shown or refered to on screen is "real." So far, I have made one for the Planet of the Apes TV show and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Now that I have Battlestar Galactica on DVD, I will start making one for one of my favorite shows. As soon as I compleate it I will post it for the entertainmant of my fellow fans.

[Senmut]

What we saw on screen, between the pilot, and HOG. Period!

[Micheleh]

"I take the opinion that myths must be revised and updated for new audiences. But hey, that is just me and other mini-fans."

Hmm. If the orignial series fans didn't think this, why the fan fiction? Why did DeSanto (an OS fan) write his updated version? Why did Richard (an OS fan) write the comix, the books, the trailer?

It seems inherently contradictory to say, however, that 'myths must be revised and updated' seems to be a view shared by the mini fans, becuase the mini is ttbomk not an update, and is only a revision bu the broadest stretch of the definition, which is, I assume, why they prefered the made up term 're-imagining'. (Does anyone have the official SWG definitions on these?)

As far as what is considered 'canon', I guess that depends on what would officially be acceptable by the SWG. What actually constitutes the BG universe is up to each fan.

[peter noble]

Battlestar Galactica 1978-79, and like it or not Galactica 1980, which was a continuation of the original show set in its future and our present (at the time).

Until someone films a continuation that dismisses G'80 then tough felgercarb, it counts!

Peter

[Dawg]

I agree - TOS. Period.

That has been built upon by fanfic, it was built upon by Tom DeSanto, and Richard Hatch - but the fanfic, DeSanto's unfilmed efforts, even Richard's faithful 4 minute trailer are not canon (nor, actually, should they be).

Canon is the universe, mythology, characters, etc. that were presented to us in 1978-79. Obviously, this doesn't mean canon can't be presented in an updated fashion (which most of our detractors can't seem to understand).

(Sorry, Peter, my friend, but I found G80 so bad I, too, must disregard it in the face of what might yet be.) ;)

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[peter noble]

Originally posted by Dawg
(Sorry, Peter, my friend, but I found G80 so bad I, too, must disregard it in the face of what might yet be.) ;)

While I agree with your right to disregard it, it still remains a fact, that Galactica 1980 is a direct continuation of the original storyline.

It exists just like this min-series, and until those with the "power" get off their backsides and stop sitting on their hands and shooting the felgercarb then we've really come no further than we were two years-18 months ago, plus a couple of decades.

Peter

[Muffit]

Let's see, what's cannon...

32 pounders, muzzle loading
24 pounders, also muzzle loading
18 pounders and bow chasers (a bit puny but serviceable)
Assorted carronades

Anything after 1865 is really just a gun, IMHO, as the word cannon pretty much gets dropped, especially among naval vessels.

...What??? OOOOOHHHHH, you mean canon!!!!
Duh, I don't know, the Pope and I really don't talk much... :D

:muffit:

[CaptainTux]

This may not be too popular, but I would fo with TOS, the Marvel Comics rendition and the original books. Also unpopular is my wish that other authors would follow Hatch's lead with books along his vein. Get some of the people from the SW and ST and other series to write novels and flesh out a cannon bible and I will read them. If Larson Desanto do not happen, a book series may be our last vestige of hope. I really hope we get our continuation on screen, but I like the novel idea.

Cheers!

[Dawg]

Originally posted by CaptainTux
This may not be too popular, but I would fo with TOS, the Marvel Comics rendition and the original books. Also unpopular is my wish that other authors would follow Hatch's lead with books along his vein. Get some of the people from the SW and ST and other series to write novels and flesh out a cannon bible and I will read them. If Larson Desanto do not happen, a book series may be our last vestige of hope. I really hope we get our continuation on screen, but I like the novel idea.

Cheers!

Would that it could happen (the books, I mean)!

But it won't - not yet, anyway. Universal has given exclusive rights to Richard Hatch and iBooks - at ruinous rates, by all accounts. All books must be written by Richard (with a co-author selected by iBooks).

Nobody can touch the franchise without Universal's OK - and the payment of beaucoup bucks to Universal for the priviledge.

Another case of mismanaging the franchise, IMHO.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Westy]

Depends on what you mean by BSG. There are now 3 Battlestar Galacticas IMO.

TOS canon:
The '78 TV pilot, the series following that and the novels written for them. Nothing else.

Hatch TOS continuation canon:
The '78 TV pilot, the series following that and the novels written for them and Hatch's novels. Nothing else.

2003 Mini Series canon:
The mini series. Nothing else.

[BST]

I would submit that whichever occurred first would be considered canon and then, subsequent items in that same medium. So, since BSG appeared in a televised form, (theatrical movie outside USA and television) then, that would be considered canon and, like it or not, Galactica 1980 would also have to be included. Now, if we can just get a "Dallas"-type dream...

To include any of the other items like the novels and comic books, their stories would need to be adapted for tv.

Note: I would consider the mini to be an alternate timeline. Not canon.

(Just a few loose thoughts bouncing around an otherwise empty head!)

BST

[Bijou88]

In the end, I guess you need to include what you like. If you like a comic or a novel that doesn't contradict what was established, it fits. If you only want the original episodes, that works too. I like to include the comics and novels in my personal Galactica canon. But that is just me. I feel that any officially licenced material for tos counts. It is just a universe I like to escape to now and then.

[Dawg]

We each, in our own minds, know what we accept as "canon". Personally, I would have liked to see more influence of some of the Star Trek books in the movies; some of those authors really had some wonderful ideas.

But "canon" must be what the majority of the audience is most likely to embrace. Using the ST example, very few of the audience will be familiar with the books. So, the books cannot be considered Star Trek "canon". In the case of BSG, then, what was developed in the TOS episodes is what most people will recognize; Richard's books will not reach a healthy percentage of the TOS audience (for a variety of reasons), fanfic simply doesn't count (the audience there is miniscule compared to the viewers of TOS).

That's why I maintain that, regardless of what we accept within our own minds as acceptable BSG, "canon" is TOS.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Trevor Angelus]

Originally posted by GreggAllinson
The way I look at it, the '78 series has precedence over everything else...unless another source comes up with a better idea. For example: the Cylons of the novels are a much more fascinating bunch than the TV robots, so go with them.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of a "re-imagining" because it would provide us with a great opportunity to weave all these disparate threads into a cohesive tapestry. My problem with Moore's "re-imagining", of course, is the fact that it jettisoned so much of what gave Galactica its identity. But if somebody were to come along and shuffle the novels (both the old school Thurston variety and the Hatch ones), comics, TV show, and movie into one coherant new whole, I'd be all for it.

I agree! I would have like to have seen this with the same team behind Firefly doing it! Joss Whedon has a talented team of writers.

[Trevor Angelus]

Personally I accept TOS and Richards books as canon.

[The Ninth Lord]

Although I only consider the original series to be canon, I sometimes think that there is one episode of Galactica 1980 that could also be considered canon - Starbuck's Fate, the episode featuring the return of Dirk Benedict. A fun watch and a good story. Even if the rest of 1980 is ignored, this episode could still somehow fit in.

[Bijou88]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dawg
[B]We each, in our own minds, know what we accept as "canon". Personally, I would have liked to see more influence of some of the Star Trek books in the movies; some of those authors really had some wonderful ideas.

But "canon" must be what the majority of the audience is most likely to embrace. Using the ST example, very few of the audience will be familiar with the books. So, the books cannot be considered Star Trek "canon". In the case of BSG, then, what was developed in the TOS episodes is what most people will recognize; Richard's books will not reach a healthy percentage of the TOS audience (for a variety of reasons), fanfic simply doesn't count (the audience there is miniscule compared to the viewers of TOS).

That's why I maintain that, regardless of what we accept within our own minds as acceptable BSG, "canon" is TOS.

Dawg has convinced me! While I love the comics and the books and I include them in my personal timeline, I think Dawg has a strong point. Canon must be the original show because it is what most people are familiar with today. The Marvel comics were published 25 years ago. They may not be accessable to many fans. The last Berkley book came out in 1988. Other than in second hand bookstores they are hard to find. If a true revival were to be made in the future, the original episodes are the only source material that should be referred to.

[ViperAce]

As much as I've dug, and read, and reviewed & put away over the years... I gotta go with TOS and stand firm on ignoring BSG80 ... even with Starbuck's cameo

[callsignfalcon]

i consider BSG and BSG03 two seperate shows on the same -basic- idea.... can't judge one by the other.... so this is a hard one... well I'd have to say definitly not G80!

[lordpenquin]

TOS is the only canon to consider. While richard hatch is the leading authority on the authenticity of TOS, his books can only be regarded as high quality "fan fiction".

[Corwwyn]

BSG is canon.

G80 was imo Glen giving ABC what they wanted, a reimaging, much as Ron's version being a reimaging (albeit G80 paid lip service to being a continuation).

While arguable (and requiring editing to fit), I think The Return of Starbuck ep could be considered canon, because it was really a BSG episode that never got made due to the cancellation of BSG, but found a resurrection in G80.

I would argue that books, comics, etc., cannot be canon because the original product was BSG the tv series (as opposed to a tv adaptation of a comic or book or series thereof).

If it was based on a book or comic then that would be the benchmark of canon the show would have to strive to be faithful to.

In this case BSG is the benchmark. G80 failed against it. Irrespective of its quality or lack thereof, G2003 failed against it.

The written materials may be based on it, and may be excellent supplementary information, and might be excellent reading, but cannot be canon. Should a faithful continuation emerge, there are no shackles tieing it to any of those written materials.

[Darth Marley]

I wish iso G80,they had arrived at earth in prehistoric days.

I read somewhere about the comic books portraying this.

The tech level of earth humans vs cylon threat would have been relatively similar.

Frankly,I feel that there is much of TOS that could be pared out without damaging the story at all.By this I mean entire episodes,but not pruning of central characters or mythology.

[Dawg]

Originally posted by Darth Marley
Frankly,I feel that there is much of TOS that could be pared out without damaging the story at all.By this I mean entire episodes,but not pruning of central characters or mythology.

I could agree with that, if you consider each episode an event on the journey. I would suggest, though, after Saga, that Lost Planet Of the Gods, Living Legend, War Of the Gods, and Hand Of God are essential. The others (Take the Celestra, Man with Nine Lives, Lost Warrior, etc.) build on the mythos and develop the various characters. Other situations and "adventures" could easily be substituted to do that.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Darth Marley]

Yep,those were pretty much the eps I could live without,though you didn't mention "greetings from earth."

You did list the essentials as I see it.

[dec5]

IMO....the 1st 4 or 5 eppys of TOS..was the "real" BG....now that is hard core purist!!!!! The rest of of the TOS season I want to forget....plus 1980....

BG2003.....is just a pleasant alternate.......IMO.

[Bijou88]

I disagree with the notion that you can discard episodes of TOS and count only other certain episodes as canon. If Tos is how canon is measured than every episode of TOS must be real authentic Galactica history. It is an all or nothing proposition. Richard Hatch's Books may not be canon but they certainly are not fan fiction either. Being an officially authorized product elevates his work above mere fan fiction.

[Darth Marley]

Bijou88,
You do it the same way you might ignore G80.

Some of the eps mentioned by Dawg just reek of the "planet of the week" or filler episodes.Much as I love to mock Hector & Vector,I could really do without that poor level of writing in the mythos.

[Bijou88]

If you eliminate "Greetings from Earth," you must also get rid of every episode that is related to it. GFE introduced the Eastern Alliance and Terra plot lines. Without GFE we must also get rid of "Baltar's Escape" and "Experiment in Terra." The beings of light appeared in EIT, but if that episode didn't happen then "War of the Gods" didn't happen. If "Baltar's Escape" didn't happen, then "The Man with Nine Lives" didn't happen either because they both featured the Borellian Noman. It gets really messy. If Tos is canon, then every episode must be canon. To pick and choose episodes would open a can of worms continuity wise. So, like it or not, Hector and Vector are 100% Galactica canon.

[larocque6689]

Originally posted by lordpenquin
TOS is the only canon to consider. While richard hatch is the leading authority on the authenticity of TOS, his books can only be regarded as high quality "fan fiction".

Not to detract anything from Richard's books, but to me they are just another fan's take on Battlestar Galactica. Some longtim fans like them, others do not.

To me all of BSG is "canon" across the 1978-1979 season. Writing off Galactica 1980 makes sense because allowing it as "canon" would prevent a more genuine continuation-timeline series from coming to pass. Think of it as an alternate-universe "what if" storyline (as bad as it was) and it makes the pill easier to swallow..

Many of the first saason episodes - especially Greetings from Earth - were silly planet of the week stories and added nothing to the mythos of the series. All the same,t they ARE part of the overall "canon". You don't ignore them, you simply de-emphasize their overall impotance.

I don't think any of the novels count - original or new. The scripts are interesting in that you sometimes find things that didn't make it to the screen. I'd recommend checking out Sus Paxton's site and Sheba's Galaxy. The alternate scenes on the DVD pilot episode are also worth checking out.

Other than the miniseries BSG (which is really an another alternate universe BSG), and the original series BSG, the only other BSG I'd pay much attention to is the defunct Desanto/Singer project. There's enough solid information on it now that we can refer back to it in comparison with TOS and TNS.

[Darth Marley]

AH,well,I guess we are stuck with H/V.
I could have done without the Nazi clones as well.
Perhaps I just wish certain of these elements were written differently so long ago.

[Bijou88]

I agree with you there Darth!

[cobrastrikelead]

then the paperbacks as support to the stuff that showed on tv. Then you would get into speculative works. (And some of the speculative works aren't bad at all) ....And wouldn't it be just great if a continuation-movie came out to help settle things out?

[Bijou88]

I think I have recently discovered a way to look at the canon/non-canon issue. If we apply the rules of literary works to Battlestar Galactica, it is clear what is official Galactica. Fans of literary characters such as Sherlock Holmes, Conan and James Bond regard the work of the character's creator as Canon. So, If only the works of Arthur Conan Doyle, Robert E. Howard and Ian Fleming really count, so must the work of Glen Larsen. As the creator and producer of Battlestar Galactica, everything that he was a party to is canon. Sherlock Holmes, Conan and James Bond stories written by other authors are considered pastiche. They are new stories with well-loved characters but are outside the realm of official adventures. I think this approach will work well for Battlestar Galactica. Canon is what was created and produced by Glen Larsen. Everything else would fall into pastiche. All the comics stories, the novels (including the ones by Richard Hatch) and fan fiction would fall under this umbrella. Pastiche writings are often entertaining and very close to the flavor of the original works, but they cannot be regarded as the real deal.

[cobrastrikelead]

I have decided that actually I am too much of a fellow original sinner to be really telling anybody what cannon is or not, other than the original series. But I can say what I like, TOS, the paperback series, and what I have seen of the Hatch Trailer on the web, and the Marvel Comics people did put some thought into their effort (remembering a discussion had on attacking battlestars from the flank among other things that they had observed in the movie). And obviously other works often can be counted as well-thought out supplemental material.

[Bijou88]

I think when a person refers to canon, they are talking about what "really happened" in the Galactica universe. In other words, if by some fold in space-time and reality you entered the "real world" of Battlestar Galactica, what would be the history that Adama and the rest of the characters would recognize? I love all the comics, and books that tell new adventures with the Galactica family. I say the more TOS adventures the better! But I have come to the conclusion that these pastiche works are not necessarily Galactica "history."

[cobrastrikelead]

many, many questions will be answered. That would be avery good thing.

[BSG_Sci_FiPulse]

Easy, the original.
Comic books, toys and all other creative and commercial propertys pertaining to the origina.

And as painful as this may sound BG1980 would have to be included as well, due to the fact that it was for all intense and purpose a Glen Larson creation. (Glen Larson may not agree with this statement, and would probably look on BG1980 in the same way as Roddenberry regarded Star Trek: The Animated series, but I would still aknowladge it as an official Galactica product.)

However I would not put the mini in as an official galactica, simply because although Universal were within their legal rights to produce a remake, it did not at any time publically or privately have the blessing of the shows originator Glen A Larson.

[cobrastrikelead]

fo President Roz, that that is D as in Daggit.

[shiningstar]

Only the original I really didn't like the 1980 deviation ......
as for OSG ........I'd rather have a root canal then EVER
see that and YES I have had a ROOT canal before.