Atlantis - Myth or Missing Truth?

[Muffit]

I've got one for ya. Do you believe Atlantis actually existed? There are many ancient references, including very plausible Platonic writings. Everyone believed Troy was a myth too, and look what happened to that legend!

I was just watching "Atlantis - The Lost Continent" from 1961. It's probably the definitive Atlantis movie. By the incomparable George Pal (of Time Machine fame) and costarring the Chief from Get Smart, Edward Platt. It has everything, mystery to discovery, scientifically advanced (but not too implausible) Atlanteans, scares and thrills, even human-beasts ala Island of Dr. Moreau. When I was little it both thrilled and scared me. I especially was scared by the human to animal experiments and loved the trial by fire and water arena.

So whaddya think? My belief is that it did exist in some form, perhaps at Thera/Santorini or even mid Atlantic. I think it was prehistory so our records of it are only verbal and much has been lost or exaggerated over time. Perhaps civilization lost itself just like it did at the dawn of the Middle Ages.

Anyway, vote and post your thoughts, love to know what you all think!
:muffit:

[Gemini1999]

Muffit -

I love that film! I have it on VHS - I saw it on TV once when I was about 10 or so. I was always intrigued by the "mythical" continent of Atlantis.

I had recently seen a documentary on Atlantis - There was this scientist that went over the writings of Plato for geograhpc references. Using those, he was able to find similar locations in South America. His theory was that South America was the "lost continent" of Atlantis. Watching the thing really made me wonder if he was on to something. It's not as mysterious as Atlantis sinking, but it is interesting....

On a related topic - The line from the opening monologue from BSG that refers to the "lost cilvilzations of Lemuria and Atlantis". I had always wondered about the "Lemuria" reference as I had never heard of it before or since. A few weeks ago, I did an online search on Lemuria and it was supposed to be a continent in the Pacific instead of the Atlantic and timeline-wise was supposed to pre-date Atlantis.

I have an interesting question, If Atlantis was indeed the continent of South America - what if Atlantis and Lemuria were actually one and the same? I mean, one side of the continent is in the Pacific and the other in the Atlantic. You just never know.....

Bryan
________
Upskirt Japanese (http://www.****tube.com/categories/1120/japanese/videos/1)

[Senmut]

Of course Atlantis was real. The Greeks spoke of it, the Aztecs and maya said they came from the sunken land of "Atzlan", and one could go on. Also, think of this. Many oceans take their name from some dry land region. Arabian Sea. Indian Ocean. Denmark Straight, ets. Where did the "Atlantic" get its name?
Just a thought.

[Proximo]

The atlantic got its name from the myth, actually. :)

I've heard a very good theory about Atlantis. AS the story goes, when Atlantis was destroyed it was destroyed by fire, then covered in snow and ice. Now... how many continents in the world are covered in ice and have active volcanoes on them? Only one...

Antarctica. :)

[Muffit]

Thanks for your replies, Gemini, Senmut, and Proximo! You're right, I goofed, I should've listed the Americas and Antarctica in my poll. I have seen several documentaries, and the fact that both cocaine and tobacco (which are only found in the Americas) were found in Egyptian royal mummies lends credence to the possibility of trade between the Mediterranean world and the Americas. Not to mention the incredible similarity of pyramids.

Any mods want to edit my poll and add these two choices?
Thanks everybody for voting!!! :)
:muffit:

[thomas7g]

there ya go :D

[Muffit]

Thanks Thomas!!! :)
:muffit:

[SeoulWind]

There are those sunken pyramids off the coast of Florida...

Mark

[kingfish]

I remember Journey To The Center of The Earth dealing with the discovery of Atlantis, BG was going to deal with it via The Atlantian Connection, Seaquest had an episode in which Bridger knew of it's location, and there was that famous series The Man From Atlantis. It probably does exist somewhere waiting to be plundered like so many other treasures. Maybe we should keep our stinking paws off of it. :D

[Muffit]

Originally posted by SeoulWind
There are those sunken pyramids off the coast of Florida...

Mark

That's right SeoulWind, there is the Bimini Road off the coast of Florida. Looks like huge man made stones, possibly a wall. It really got famous when people realized the famous American psychic Edgar Cayce foretold Atlantis would be found there (he even nailed the date of discovery, hmm).

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/vacations/2000/ltl536.htm

Thanks for reminding me!
:muffit:

[nightscape2112]

i think it was real, but dont know where it could have been.

nightscape

[dvo47p]

Ok, here is the most believable theory about Atlantis. Around 1500 BC, a massive eruption from a volcano ripped apart the island of Santorini in the Mediterranean and probably wiped out most of the civilization on the Greek islands and the coastal regions of Greece. If this is the disaster is the one that sunk what is called Atlantis. If this is so, then Plato must have his dates wrong. The only thing wrong with this explanation is that Plato specifically said the city was near the Pillars of Hercules, which are thought to be nowhere near Greece. This is also the same time period of a Trojan War. Also remember Plato lived 427-347 BC so Atlantis was at best a legend, a story based on fact, or a myth like Gods living on Olympus.

"Heck no! Plato was high on olive leaves!"

I have not smoked, inhaled or any other way used dope since High School. dvo47p started in college in Fall of 1973. Any given night the smell of marijuana was in pervasive in just about any dorm on campus. I would have lost my NROTC scholarship if I were convicted of a drug charge. Now random urine tests are mandatory. Ergo my interest in the “Plato was high on olive leaves!" Seems like a nice way to avoid a hangover. Thank you

The Pizza delivery guys made a fortune and also got tips in marijuana. I would load up on free pizza from generous while high potheads.

[LucianG]

2 points:

First, dvo's right that approximately 1,000 years had passed since the destruction of the island of Santorini. Considering that there was no written word in Greece at the time, and that everything was passed down by word of mouth, the story most likely changed, at least somewhat, over the years. Think about the stories of King Arthur. There are more versions and more variations than you can count, but the basic story is the same.

Second, even in modern stories, there is no need to define the exact location of an event. The name of the place is often enough because contemporaries know the location and can visualize it; however, place names often change, particularly from ancient times due to war, natural disasters, etc. Going back to the original Arthur analogy, where was Camelot?

My vote for Atlantis goes to Santorini.

[CaptainApollo]

Hello folkes, :)

Well,

I voted that Atlantis existed, and it was in the Americas,

For it existing, my opinion is that the "Atlantis Legend" is so wide spread,
that it either is one of the greatest lies ever told, or it was actually true.

I believe the legend me-self,
an incredibly advance civilisation, makes contact with other less advanced civilisations,

influences them,
and then is destroyed,

There are always survivours of civilisations,
so perhaps the "Atlantians" got scattered to,

Europe,
Africa,
North America,
South America,

On bizzare thing,
the Temples/Pyramids of Central/South America,

they could be coincedence,
but what if they are not?


Take care, :)
CaptainAppollo

[Proximo]

Camelot was reputed to be within the anglo-saxon kingdom of Mercia, although Mercia itself is younger than the myth of Arthur. If memory serves, Arthur was loosely based on a roman general named Lucius Arturius Castus, a roman cavalry general who was stationed in britain around 180 AD.

[Artemis]

Originally posted by Proximo
The atlantic got its name from the myth, actually. :)

I've heard a very good theory about Atlantis. AS the story goes, when Atlantis was destroyed it was destroyed by fire, then covered in snow and ice. Now... how many continents in the world are covered in ice and have active volcanoes on them? Only one...

Antarctica. :)

Actually Greenland and Iceland are also covered in glaciers and volcanos. They are not continents but then Atlantis was supposed to be an island not a continent and any volcanos that are active now are too young to have been around during the supposed time frame of Atlantis.
Just some fuel for the debate.
:colwar:

[LucianG]

any volcanos that are active now are too young to have been around during the supposed time frame of Atlantis

Not necessarily. Many volcanoes go through many periods of activity and then long periods of inactivity. Geologically speaking, 3 to 4 thousand years is not long at all. Mt. Etna in Sicily holds the historical record, with the first recorded eruption in about 1,500 BC, and the most recent on September 25, 2003. We don't know how long it was active before that.


http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/current.html

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/etna/

[CaptainApollo]

Has anyone heard any details of how Altantis was destroyed?
That would be very interesting indeed,


Take care, :)
CaptainApollo

[Muffit]

I think they produced a mini, and that was it. :D
:muffit:

[CaptainApollo]

Eh?

A Mini?
:D
Bloody hell that did it!
KA-BOOM
http://www.nightsoftware.com/compictures/agentsloan/Nuclear__12.jpg

A tiff over parking you see...
:D


Originally posted by Muffit
I think they produced a mini, and that was it. :D
:muffit:


Take care, :)
CaptainApollo

[AlphaAce]

I think it is certainly possible that Atlantis existed. We need more evidence. It is fun speculating though.

[Muffit]

Hi AlphaAce! Don't remember welcoming you to CF so, WELCOME!
:muffit:

[The 14th Colony]

You know, there are those that believe...Atlantis, the land that sunk beneath the sea, was actually the world entire prior to the flood survived only by Noah and the inhabitants of his ark.

[Muffit]

That's interesting 14th, similar to the Thera/Santorini theory. Some believe the Thera eruption could've flooded the Mediterranean and been the basis of Noah. Others think the eruption temporarily drained the Red Sea for Moses. So many possibilities (although I think the time frames are different).

Another related theory is that the Egyptian Sphinx is thousands of years older than currently believed (tests seem to indicate lots of water erosion - only possible if the sphinx is closer to 10,000 years old). That suggests a civilisation that predates history - Lemuria or Atlantis.

:muffit:

[AlphaAce]

Originally posted by Muffit
Hi AlphaAce! Don't remember welcoming you to CF so, WELCOME!
:muffit:

Thanks for the welcome, Muffit. :D

[Flamingo Girl]

I saw a show on the sphinx, and they think it was originally a lion's head, but was re-carved by the Egyptians, that's why the head is so small in relation to the body. Neat.

As for Atlantis, I don't think for a second that we know everything there is to know. We have so many legends and stories that have been passed down through the centuries, how can we know how many of them are true? And who knows if we have even already found Atlantis anddon't know it, we simply caled it something else? Or maybe what was left of it fell victim to conquers who plundered it and reused the buildings for their own new civilization, or bulldozers tore through it and no one noticed.
I vote yes, but have no idea where.

[Artemis]

Originally posted by LucianG
Not necessarily. Many volcanoes go through many periods of activity and then long periods of inactivity. Geologically speaking, 3 to 4 thousand years is not long at all. Mt. Etna in Sicily holds the historical record, with the first recorded eruption in about 1,500 BC, and the most recent on September 25, 2003. We don't know how long it was active before that.



True, I don't know why but I was thinking in 10,000 of years that day and not mearly 1000's. Must have been thinking about how old the Kobol civilization is and not our planet's civilization. :p

[CaptainApollo]

Hello Artmeus, :)

Yep,
the legend is that it occured 12,000 years ago,
The legend was a Greek one, recorded by the Egyptians,

The bugabo is that some people argue that a mistake was made with the differences between the Egyptians and Greeks Calenders (a proposed factor of 10),
has been advanced,

Personally,
I believe the legend with the 12,000 year ago timeline was faithfully recorded,

In my opinion,


Originally posted by Artemis
True, I don't know why but I was thinking in 10,000 of years that day and not mearly 1000's. Must have been thinking about how old the Kobol civilization is and not our planet's civilization. :p

Take care, :)
CaptainApollo

[LucianG]

Here's an interesting article on a proposed new location:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&ncid=585&e=3&u=/nm/20031029/sc_nm/cyprus_atlantis_dc

[137th Gebirg]

Here is my theory on Atlantis (and Lemuria, for that matter). It takes into account a bunch of tidbits I've collected over the years and wove into a theory that fits some facts. It may seem somewhat crack-pottish to some. To others, right out of Van Danaken. Some would actually see a similarity between the theory and Battlestar Galactica. This was not my intent, but I could see the analogy - perhaps a subconscious connection was in my brain on this. It could be that Battlestar Galactica takes many of its ideas from the Bible that, to many, is an accurate history book, telling the story of the origins of man, veiled in allegory.

Either way, please be kind...

In The Beginning – Starting back to WAY before Atlantis existed as a society, during the early days of our solar system. The sun was much newer and much hotter than it is today. Earth then was much like what Venus is now: extremely hot with toxic gases poisonous to life as we know it. Scientists have coined a term, "the ring of life" or, the radius from the sun where heat conditions are favorable to the growth of advanced life forms. MANY millions, possibly billions of years ago, that ring of life was not approximate to Earth's orbit, but to that of Mars, where life began (analogous to Kobol?). Yes, I believe that there was, at one time, life on Mars. To avoid getting bogged down in specifics on that one, please go to Enterprise Mission (http://www.enterprisemission.com/). It's all there. Eventually, there came a time when those “people” (for lack of a better word) realized that the sun was cooling. They discovered that their planet was dying due to the decrease in ambient temperature. Their advanced technology, by this point, already allowed them to explore other planets in the solar system. They found the only other planet that could be capable of supporting life (may already be developing complex life forms at this point), because the "ring of life" was overlapping with Earth's orbit at this time. They felt that the only way to survive was to colonize Earth, using its moon as a way station (also see Enterprise Mission on possible artificial structures on the moon). This is analogous to the exodus from Kobol to the Colonies.

As a side note, there are those who believe that the moon itself is an artificial construct. Claims have arisen that seismic data from various moon-landing missions shows an auditory "echo" when small meteorites hit the surface. The sound of the impact allegedly bounces off the diametrically opposite side of the moon (internally) and is reflected back. I have never seen proof of this, but the theories are out there. The other argument for lunar artificiality is the question of how the moon his so perfectly shaped and distanced that, during a total solar eclipse, the moon's relative diameter is identical to that of the sun as viewed from the surface of the Earth, totally blocking it out. Again, I don’t know if I support these theories, but if the seismic claims are true, there may be some merit. To continue...

The Exodus – Setting up shop on the moon, the immigrants start studying the fauna of the Earth and eventually initiate a small colony on the planet. Some would call this the founding of the lost continent of Lemuria. Seeing that some of the indigenous life forms (primates) had the closest genetic structure to themselves, just at an earlier stage of evolution. This resulted in a genetic melding between the two species (the “missing link”) where there was a sudden jump in the evolutionary process. The first generation of modern humans became the Atlantians, being observed by the Lemurians as an experiment, being given various kinds of advanced technology to see how they would use it and develop as a species. As some of the myths go, the Atlantians became very arrogant and decadent to Caligulan proportions and misused their technology. This started leading to the fall of Atlantian society.

The Cataclysm – Almost every major belief system and many major cultures have had stories of a major cataclysmic event resulting in inundation, or flood. Even today, archaeological expeditions are finding submerged structures all over the world, in the Black Sea, off the coast of Cuba and Japan. Water levels appear to have risen since the early days of man. Many have postulated the impact of a massive asteroid or meteorite, causing nothing less than a shift in the earth’s crust, poles and orbit. The crust shift is the one that interests me the most, where the crust separates and rotates on the mantle, orienting itself differently from its original state. Could this have happened during the decline of Atlantis? Atlantis was known to be quite temperate, but when the crust shifted, is it possible that Atlantis went south in more ways than one, while at the same time wiping Lemuria off the face of the Earth entirely? What if Atlantis rotated geologically and geographically to where Antarctica is now? This would make the continent impossible to inhabit, forcing its people to leave. They had a fairly good idea of the layout of other nearby continents, the two nearest being what we call South America and Africa. They left the frigid continent in droves, many dying along the way, many unable to obtain transportation and freezing to death. This is analogous to the destruction of the Colonies by the Cylons.

The Ancients – The Atlantians scattered, taking some of their technology and their culture with them to help them survive in a new and hostile environment. Maybe they met other humans along the way and started new colonies. The biggest colonies grew into cities, back in the temperate regions that they enjoyed, possibly on or around the “new” equator. Those who settled in South America may have become the Toltecs, Myans, Aztecs and other indigenous societies of the region. Those who settled in Africa became the Nubians and Egyptians and expanded up into the Caucuses and Europe. This may explain the anomalous similarities in culture, architecture, artistry, burial rites and cultural behavior between peoples thousands of miles apart, separated by vast oceans.

Far too many anomalous objects have been found at these centers of ancient culture. The Crystal Skulls of the Americas (some have now been found in Europe and Asia), the ancient hieroglyphs and models of flying machines in Egypt – See Enterprise Mission’s essay on “The Lost Tombs Revisited” (http://www.enterprisemission.com/tombsweb1.html). It makes for VERY interesting reading.

So, you now know that I voted for Antarctica in the poll of where Atlantis is. I think others knew this as well. For example, the movies "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" popularized the notion that the Nazi's were after ancient artifacts to help their "manifest destiny". Himmler, the leader of the Algemeine SS, set up a special group to research exactly that. They are said to have allied themselves with the Bavarian "Thule Society" to this end. Some believe that they set up a secret base and colonized that continent during the war which they named "Neu-Schwabenland". It is said that reports from the American Atlantic Fleets ran into huge German convoys heading south. Others say that the Admiral Byrd mapping expedition in 1946-47 was not for mapping at all, but for mopping - mopping up the remnants of the German military that had set up shop down there. Details of this theory can be found here (http://www.think-aboutit.com/Omega/files/omega2.htm).

I’m not convinced that any of this is true, but there is so much we don’t know about our origins, our selves and the universe we live in. Mainstream archaeologists and anthropologists would have no trouble shooting holes in my theory, granted. But they have been wrong before. Some have even fabricated false truths to keep their places in their own self-appointed pantheons of scientific gods. How does it hurt us to think outside the box? That’s what science fiction is all about, IMHO. If anyone has any questions about the things I mentioned here, give me a hollar. I'm always interested in a different point of view.

Take care...

Update: The following document seems to hold similar theories as what I just mentioned and goes into further detail. It gets a little too New Age for my taste at times, but still has some ideas of merit:
The Martian Hypothesis - A Hypothetical History of the Red Planet (http://seekers.100megs6.com/The%20Martian%20Hypothesis.doc) by Gerry Forster

[Proximo]

That's a great theory, sort of similar to ideas Iv'e had myself (though obviously, being one of those christian people that get around like so many cockroaches, mine includes God as well). Mine is just the basis fo a scifi story though, not a complete theory of any kind, so I won't postulate on it.

I'll tell what I do find annoying, though, is the way any kind of research in to this is always hijacked by those new-age people who like to go on about crystals and transcendentalism and the like, as if they're the ultimate authority on the whole deal. Because of this, any ideas that challenge the accepted norm are always associated with teh crackpot fringe and dismised as lunacy, which really gets my goat... we really don't know that much about our history. In 150,000 years of homo sapiens sapiens existing on the planet, no more than 9000 are even remotely recorded. I find it hard to believe that the other 141,000 years involved a lot of guys sitting on their arses painting caves. Then of course there's a little known story I've read, though the details escape me (which means it should probably be taken with a huge pile of salt). In a quarry somewhere in the american mid-west, a team was digging through a large chunk of conglomerate sandstone rocks to get to the juicy coal underneath when they found a skeleton. It was burried under what any archaeologist would say is a 2 million or so year-old rock. The thing is, it was a modern human skeleton. THere was no way it could have sliped down there since it was surrounded by solid rock. There was even a fossilised mineral stain underneath it from the organic material. It wasn't publicised, of course, because that would have challenged the idea of how the rock formed, or how old man was, or something like that. Anyway, what is says is that the current orthodoxy on geology is probably in need of a rethink.

I've also seen an experiment that demonstrated how easy it is to create what looks like several thousand years of sediment layers in just a few minutes. When you have a lot of sedminetary material in flowing water, like that found at the mouth of a river, it will filter out in to classic sedimentary layers that are supposed to take thousands of years to form. All in all, it's pretty interesting. And challenging. The implications are that our planetary history might be a lot more exciting and dynamic than we're led to believe... it does also bring these 'million year old' ruins that are dismissed as fantasy in to the human timescale, making then instantly a lot more credible.

[Muffit]

This is so cool, thank you all for contributing your ideas! Some of these are very new to me.

Proximo, do you have any links to the 2 million year old skeleton found in the rock?

Those that know me also know I believe science can be reconciled with creationism, if we simply allow our minds to be open a bit. The whole series of events in Genesis can be seen to coincide with the order of appearance of forms of life, etc that science believes. That's an awfully coincidental guess for 5,000+ years ago! For instance, the word for day used to describe the seven days of creation is yowm in Hebrew and hemera in Greek. This can be translated as "age", or a very long period of time, covering the appearance and lifespan of a specific event. (Since there was no night and day as we know it for the first 3 "days", that really makes you think! Interesting!).

I love all this speculating! The discovery of a 5,000 year old battery sure makes you wonder!

:muffit:

[Proximo]

Originally posted by Muffit

Proximo, do you have any links to the 2 million year old skeleton found in the rock?

Well there's the problem, see. I can't find it again, which is why I said to take it with a grain of salt. I'm looking right now though to see what I can find. :)

[BSG_Sci_FiPulse]

Well I believe in the myth of atlantis, and here is my sci fi theory as in what happened to atlantis. bear in mind that am making this up as I go along.

Atlantis was a great biological alien space craft. Which landed in Greece in order to make first contact with humans and try to civilise them. Thus after a time humanity began to resent the atlantians, and subsiquently the atlantians faked the destruction of there island and flew away to what is commonly refered to as the bemuda triangle. Ever wondered why so many ships and planes have gone missing in the bermuda triangle. It is because of a magnetic filed which is generated by the cloaked space craft Atlantis.

That is my theory and am sticking to it lol. Hope that solves the mystery for you all.