Interested in feedback from fans of the original series

[default]

I am running a poll on my forum to understand why the fans who support the current production with Ron Moore and David Eick at the helm won't support a prequel. The results thus far have been pretty one sided:

Results (total votes = 35):
Ron Moore and David Eick answering to Glen A. Larson 30 / 85.7%

Too many overwrites needed for a prequel 1 / 2.9%

You prefer side story and prequel doesn't work 0 / 0.0%

Just out spite against the original fans 0 / 0.0%

Doesn't matter, you wanted re-imaging anyways 4 / 11.4%

It's seems to me that the majority of the group feels that a prequel would result in the current production having to answer to someone they feel is a lesser talent in Larson. The point of view many have is that if it is re-imagined then Larson has no say in the new Universe being created. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

[Thomas P]

All I know is that if they succeed in dumbing this down to match the old version of Battlestar Galactica so that folks can have their macaroni-and-cheese, I'll be both disappointed at the opportunities lost and amused to watch the progress and public reception of what finally gets done. ;)

[Micheleh]

Dennis, please. I wish you could express your opinions without implying personal insult to the majority of the membership here, 'wink-face' or not. It's rude.

As an aside, the old version was not dumb. It had it's 70's moments, true, but it's totally exaggerated to relegate the entire show to being macaroni-and-cheese, or whatever other comparison you care to use.

[Sci-Fi]

Dennis is seemingly just like the teenagers who think the "old guys" want it to be 1978 again. We can write volumes on how we want the core of the show retained and moved into the 21st Century (including 21st Century writing and characterization), but some people either refuse to or can't understand it. He doesn't seem dumb at all, so it must be the other reason. I don't know why you have to keep putting down continuation fans, Dennis. This is a Battlestar Galactica forum. It's only natural to assume most people would want a continuation. How do you get any fun out of the place when it seems like you're constantly battling? And what's the point of it all? What can be gained by insulting the fans and the series at every opportunity?

Milton, to answer your question, I didn't think Larson was even in the picture. Why would Moore have to take orders from Larson if they switched to a prequel?

[Thomas P]

RGrant, the fact that you don't understand something only means that you don't understand it. It doesn't imply anything else about the person or situation.

[Sci-Fi]

You're absolutely right, Dennis. I admit to being a bit simple-minded on this matter, too. I know why people go to forums for shows they like, but I've never understood why people go to forums for shows they don't. It's one of those mysteries that just haunts me from time to time.

I've really got nothing against you, btw. You're much better at this than havoc was, and much easier to take. I hope you realize why the dumbing down remark struck a bad chord with me, and why I wrote what I did. I know you like the remake script and I've got nothing against people who like it, either, but I hate when the continuation fans are made to look like people who want everything the way it was in 1978. That's a recent tactic going on with the Moore fans over at Scifi.

[Sept17th]

His poll has two simple objectives, boost his numbers so TPTB may pay attention to his board, and second fire up his mindless drones. We’ve all exchanged idea’s and tried mature debate at first things looked promising…given time I’ve come to realize they are his little minions. His poll is disingenuous, best to ignore it

:cylon:

[jewels]

Originally posted by Dennis
All I know is that if they succeed in dumbing this down to match the old version of Battlestar Galactica so that folks can have their macaroni-and-cheese, I'll be both disappointed at the opportunities lost and amused to watch the progress and public reception of what finally gets done. ;)

And I'll be just as amused when something like what Desanto & Hatch proposed: the old & new characters, the characters that had 20-25 yrs. to grow & change, the themes that remained consistant, the nobility of archetypal characters, the twists of plots and introduction of new factors and yes, something less bubblegum; I will be amused when THAT starts racking in the cashflow around the world.

Sleeping? Perhaps. Giant? Definately. But if you must be careful how you wake it. Roust the sleeping giant the wrong way, anti it's nature, you risk losing body parts. If you wake it gently, respecting it's person, IMHO: you have all of the giant's strength to utilize in your quest for franchise success.

This show had a vision and a message: without that vision and message it was just another flash in the pan to be forgotten. But it wasn't. It transcended its lowly 1 season of success* because it had a vision that crossed cultural lines. (*yes, Dennis it was a success: A show that didn't dropped below top 20 in summer reruns IS a success.)

At its most basic level the message said humankind was worth saving, freedom worth defending, worth fighting for. Last time I checked those were still true: it's just the voices saying it are dimmer now than in 1978. But we need that message more now. We need its hope. We need its decency and dignity.

Time will tell. Dealer still holds the capstone card in the deck.
Jewels

[XANATOS]

the show being made is not B.S.G.
but a cheap rip off

the fans at your site hate galactica
because it is not star trek
and they recive tysted fun from
tearing down what others enjoy

as do you milton

i well remember your post on the
sf galactica bb



XANATOS

[Micheleh]

There was an unwritten rule we had at renderosity that worked really well, so I'm going to stick with it here. That's adress the argument, not the person.

The implication that old series fans are mac'n'cheese is just a bit rude, but hey, whatever. But... when people get into direct commentary of each other's personalities, that's when it is about the person, not the topic. That's when I may ask folks to step back and chill, based on my mod criteria.

Besides, I *like* mac'n'cheese. :D

[SS1]

When I grow up, I want to be a well-adjusted individual, just like Dennis.



BOOM-cha-gah-la! BOOM-BOOM-BOOM!

:warrior:

[Micheleh]

Scooter! What did I just say? LOL!

Stick to adressing the argument, not the arguer. Besides, I thought you wanted to be Elvis when you grow up.

[skippercollecto]

Originally posted by Captain James

It's seems to me that the majority of the group feels that a prequel would result in the current production having to answer to someone they feel is a lesser talent in Larson. The point of view many have is that if it is re-imagined then Larson has no say in the new Universe being created. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Korn Fan 2 has gave some insightful comments in regards to their issues with Larson over at your forum.

As for the fans of the original series, Larson ranks down pretty low with us as well. It's mostly the work of Leslie Stevens and Donald Bellisario that we honor.

[Erzengel]

I have to wonder about the environment over on the sci-fi bboard because I went over to this person's bboard recently to have discussions and have yet to recieve hostility. I've gotten just the opposite in fact.

I haven't gotten a complete answer to why they support this new project, but I haven't gotten into any flame wars. Just civil debates.

[WXM]

When I saw the title of this thread and its author--and the number of replies ithad gotten--I got a bit worried. "The scourge hasth spread to befall upon the unsullied glade that is CF!" I exclaimed! (Okay, I didn't really put it that way.;)) But the posts were not of the ilk I feared I'd behold. Intelligence and wisdom abounded. Simply, you guys are rad!

To add to the discussion: To talk about and embrace the RDM script is to talk about and embrace a thing that will be nothing more than an "idea-that-was for a little while, but was not meant to be," akin to the Aerovette of late 70's. A BG continuation (in enough of a form for the fans of Battlestar Galactica to embrace) will happen. Why would I come to that conclusion? Simple. Because it is the only logical path for this particular project. As a famous screen character once said specifically of a BG update (what a trip he saw this coming, eh?), "All else is a waste of material." And such a waste just does not seem meant-to-be here. :)

-Star Trek Fan WXM

Edit: I've come back to aplogize a little but for not adding anything substantial above on the discussion end. I feel I said about all I had to say in a thread I did a short while back. I responded here because...it's just that what's in the title of this thread "the fans of the original series" irked me. At present, only one BG series exists (BG80 maybe, but that's nowhere mentioned in the topic starter). To see that fact tossed aside on a board that is dedicated to the one and only BG...well, you can probably see why it left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm really not trying to start a flame war here, though. My apologizes, though I've decided to leave my words above in place till someone requests I remove them. Thanks for listening.

[Erzengel]

Technically speaking whatever is done, be it a continuation or a remake, will cause our beloved BSG to become BSG The Original Series. Just like Star Trek of the 70's became Star Trek TOS when Next Gen was made.

So I'm not very insulted by the title.

I also got this sunshine policy in effect, where as I'm willing to talk to people on the otherside and hope that they come around to my views.

[Hito]

Originally posted by Scooter2000
When I grow up, I want to be a well-adjusted individual, just like Dennis.

BOOM-cha-gah-la! BOOM-BOOM-BOOM!

:warrior:

I love that people have seized on that part of the script to somehow call it juvenile.
No doubt for lack of anything actually substantive to crit.

When I was in high school, in my first year of ROTC my 2 instructors and the senior year cadets would do a similar kind of call and response during PT or Drills.
I always thought it was macho gung-ho nonsince.

Adama and Trace were gung-ho military as well as close friends. So what is the problem with them engaging in a little military/academy tradition.

[Hito]

They were practicaly father and Daughter.
I saw it more in that light than Higher rank vs Lower rank Officer

[Erzengel]

And their saying over on the other board that they had to change the gender of the two main characters because to balance the gender gap...

[Sci-Fi]

Originally posted by Hito


I love that people have seized on that part of the script to somehow call it juvenile.
No doubt for lack of anything actually substantive to crit.


Crap. I just wrote a long post including 10 substantive criticisms that seem to have been forgotten simply because Scooter complained about a short line of dialogue. And everything but the last paragraph didn't show up. Arghhh.

It's not worth writing it all out again. Suffice it to say they're criticisms that have been pointed out hundreds of time and won't be forgotten just because someone makes fun of the annoying yet fairly insignificant Boom-chaga-la line.

[Erzengel]

I've had that happen to me before. That's why I write my posts out on notepad and copy paste to the forum..

[Hito]

Originally posted by Warrior
Adama already had a daughter named Athena, and already had a daughter-in-law named Serena, and already had an almost-daughter named Sheba.

Did you see Adama doing that with any of them?

Oh wait... that's the original, not this poor imitation ;)

Thats right.
The 2 universes are unrelated.
Otherwise I'd make the same observations.

Other than "it aint the original" what are the problems with it?
In and of itself there is nothing wrong with Moores script.
save for the jinks and kinks you would normaly found find in any fiction.
It is above par telivision SF.

I mean after we Debunked the lack of the Mythological/Spiritual undertones and Cowardly Adama thing what was really left?

And i still Contend that the female characters in the original series were little more than set dressing till Sheba showed up.
But she fell into the same waiting to be saved victem role typical of the time.

Now had the orignal been given the time to mature prehaps that would have changed, but considering the universal shows to follow i find it highly unlikly.

Today audiences have more expectations for stronger roles for females.
Ala Buffy or Xena.

Now you may say in a continuation that imbalance could have been rectafied and i agree as i said about a possible place for Ms Hu in a hypothetical continuation project.
But for this particular project givving the Boomer & Starbuck Roles to female actors was the right choice.
Similar to the Ivanova & Kira characters from DS9 & B5 and Aeryn & Zaan from Farscape.

[Hito]

Originally posted by RGrant



Crap. I just wrote a long post including 10 substantive critcisms that seem to have been forgotten simply because Scooter complained about a simple line of dialogue. And everything but the last paragraph didn't show up. Arghhh.

Cool
Go ahead and re-write it and post it in it's own thread.
Critiqu the material thats "there" not what is "not" there from the original.

[Hito]

Thats what I'm sayin yeah.
Same as u would Stargate SG1 or Highlander: The Series.
Which were remakes of the orignals.
The only diffrence is the changes to those properties are not as drastic as the ones in the BSG script.

I dont agree with you that this project spells the end for a continuation of the original seires.
According the the people on the boards with all the aledged sources the chances of this show even getting made at all are slim to nil.
Hopes for anything other than Moores project seem to be at an all time high so just humor me.

[Hito]

Following that logic G-80 would then *BE* Galactica and any kind of future project must by extension be based upon that work.

And even tho there is no canon proof, it is widly accepted that G-80 is in fact apocraful and has no bearing on the original series asside from some portions of The Return of Starbuck.
And that all continuaiton projects should have to pick up after The Hand of God.

If this project tanks then borrow a page from the MACROSS playbook and call it a fictionalized account of the destruction of the colonies that was created by some future colonial film-maker.

[Sept17th]

BOOM-cha-gah-la! BOOM-BOOM-BOOM! buddy!

[SS1]

Originally posted by Hito
Same as u would Stargate SG1 or Highlander: The Series.
Which were remakes of the orignals.


You're wrong again Hito. Highlander: The Series was NOT a remake.

I can't speak for Stargate but you are dead wrong about Highlander the series being a remake.

Christopher Lambert reprised his movie character role in the pilot for the series as well as a few other episodes.

The series owes its success for setting the series in the same universe as the movies.

[SS1]

Originally posted by Sept17th
BOOM-cha-gah-la! BOOM-BOOM-BOOM! buddy!

And a BOOM-cha-gah-la! BOOM-BOOM-BOOM back at you buddy!

And a BOOM-cha-gah-la! BOOM-BOOM-BOOM to everybody!

[AlternityOrange]

Same as u would Stargate SG1 or Highlander: The Series.Which were remakes of the orignals.

As Scooter already mentioned Highlander was a continuation, not a remake. The movie's events were referred to in many episodes.

Stargate SG-1 is also a continuation, not a remake. It picked up directly after the movie. The first two hour episode was even released on video as Stargate 2 in some places.

[Hito]

Originally posted by AlternityOrange


As Scooter already mentioned Highlander was a continuation, not a remake. The movie's events were referred to in many episodes.

Stargate SG-1 is also a continuation, not a remake. It picked up directly after the movie. The first two hour episode was even released on video as Stargate 2 in some places.

Highlander The series is not a continuation.
In the movies Connor was the last immortal and won the gathering.
In the series the gathering has not yet hapned.

In the movie stargate Ra was not a worm.

The series spawned from both moves exist in a paralel reality.
They have been remade and based on the original source amterial.

[AlternityOrange]

Highlander The series is not a continuation.
In the movies Connor was the last immortal and won the gathering.
In the series the gathering has not yet hapned.

In the movie stargate Ra was not a worm.

If you go just by the first Highlander movie, as some would like to, that is correct. However it is stated in Highlander 3 that Connor never won the prize. He thought he did but there were other immortals as evidenced by the series. It wasn't just Christopher Lambert's single appearance in the series that makes this so. In an early second season episode, the first one with the watchers I think, they refer to Connor's final fight in New York with Kurgan "eight years ago."

And in the director's cut of Stargate it is revealed that Ra is in fact a symbiotic being who took over the Egyptian boy. The scenes were cut from the theatrical release but they are on the DVD. Even if that wasn't the case though, revealing additional information doesn't make something a remake.

I'm not saying the continuity between these movies and the respective series was ironclad, there were lapses. However the are continuations, not remakes.

[Micheleh]

They didn't start from scratch and retell the sroty ight from the beginning, you mean. Right?

[Hito]

In Stargate the Alien being that had taken over the boys bady was revield and it wasnt a worm.

In all the highlander films Connor winds up being the last immortal.
Except the last movie that picks up from the series.
In the series the events of the movies are are conisdered similar but not the same.

That would make them coser to the Desanto psudo continuation. But they are not direct continuaitons.

[Artemis]

Originally posted by Hito

Other than "it aint the original" what are the problems with it?
In and of itself there is nothing wrong with Moores script.
save for the jinks and kinks you would normaly found find in any fiction.
It is above par telivision SF.

Having just finished reading the script, I have to agree. It is not a bad stand alone story, its fast paced and interesting. As for whether it is a good remake of BG, I would have to say no.

It is almost like Moore took the original characters, their genders, personality traits and abilities and put them all in a blender. He then took them back out a cup at a time. Laura has a lot of Adama's original characteristics, Starbuck is virtually the same except gender, Baltar is not very despicable, in fact I really didn't dislike him at all and he seems to take Dr. Wilker's role. The Cylons are a more noble race, more self-sacrificing and philosophical and the humans are so flawed that you can almost see the Cylon's point in seeking their destruction.

This is just nickpicking stuff, but I really don't like the names he uses. I agree that having only one same in such a large population can cause problems and that names like Greenbean and Jolly are silly. I don't have a problem with the call sign/nicknames but I liked the Egyptian and other influence on the names, it gave that connection to our past which I think was important in convincing the audience that these people could be related to us. The names that aren't common to us, Lee, Paul, Laura, Billy to name a few, just didn't grab me. It seems to me he is trying to make the connection between their world and ours by using things familiar to us, for instance the names, breast cancer, and tactical nukes instead of using mythology the way Larson did.

I think some of the original female characters, Athena, Cassiopeia, Rigel... could have been strengthened rather than eliminated. There is no reason Athena couldn't have been a fighter pilot. There is a better balance of civilian and military characters, it is not the military is always right and the civilians make all the mistakes like before.

As I said in the beginning of this post, it is a fast paced interesting story that kept me wanting to read more but I don't think that it does justice to the original characters and theme.

Whether this succeeds or fails it doesn't have to mean the end to the original. There are many stories that get remade multiple times unfortunately they need to be in public domain for that to happen and right now it is in scifi's gubby little hands.

[Iknowweather66]

You can safely say to your legions that most of the original fans don't want Glen Larson's involvement with the new show. This specifically stems from Larson's attempt to do a movie version with Todd Moyer a few years back. There is little danger of him getting control of it, In my opinion. Universal owns it, not Glen Larson. No one should have to answer to him.

[Belloby]

I will not watch any BG that does not have the original cast in it.

Belloby,
original fan since 1978

[kingfish]

Originally posted by Belloby
I will not watch any BG that does not have the original cast in it.

Belloby,
original fan since 1978

Neither will I. I would rather have no show than a show that badly damages the original TOS Galactica.

[Philloz]

Originally posted by viperman
This specifically stems from Larson's attempt to do a movie version with Todd Moyer a few years back. There is little danger of him getting control of it, In my opinion. Universal owns it, not Glen Larson. No one should have to answer to him.

Larson does own the MOVIE rights to Galactica; the Todd Moyer deal came to nothing because he was unable to secure financing. There is still a possibility for a Larson-backed movie version, however unlikely.

[Belloby]

Originally posted by Erzengel
Technically speaking whatever is done, be it a continuation or a remake, will cause our beloved BSG to become BSG The Original Series. Just like Star Trek of the 70's became Star Trek TOS when Next Gen was made.



How do you figure that? They never recasted James T. Kirk, Spock and Dr. McCoy in TNG. TNG was a whole new group of characters on a newer version of the Enterprise.

It's an insult to recast. Let's face it, I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna watch it.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

I also will not watch a remake - big surprise there huh?

Two-Brain

[CylonLucifer]

One thing I have noticed in some of the posts are the comparisons with series to movie or movie to series "conversions." I don't remember seeing, in any of these, a sex change of a major character. Colonel O'Neil is still male in Stargate SG-1. Recast but male. They did add a strong female character (Captain Carter) but didn't castrate a male to do it. Star Trek kept the same characters in the movies without recasting. When TNG came out, it was stated that it took place in the future, beyond James T. Kirk's Enterprise. Entirely new cast but entirely "new" show, as well. In none of these were present characters "modified". In the reimagining, major characters ARE modified. I can see behavior changes but not sex changes. Sure, maybe Apollo (Lee???) as he got older, started resenting his father. If strong female characters need to be added, what would be wrong with Apollo, Boomer or other Viper pilots, including Starbuck, getting married and having children. It is, after all, 25+ years after the 'original' and their children would have grown and entered the service. Seems quite logical to me for something along this line to have been followed in the new BSG. The entire flight wing, updated technologically, with the still among us cast as, of course, older versions of themselves passing the baton to the new generation of pilots and crew would be, IMHO, the way to continue the story. Simple, but to the point.

[Dawg]

1. I agree with you 100%, CL - that WOULD be the best way to continue the story. Notice Richard's books.

2. Considering they've already cast an actRESS to play Starbuck, a middle-aged actor to play Adama, and we have heard absolutely nothing about any of the original cast being so much as approached for cameo appearances, I'm beginning to have doubts we will be seeing a continuation when (and if) this comes out. I could be wrong, though (I sincerely hope I am).

3. People keep saying they've read a preliminary script - WHERE???? I'm new here, and have only heard heresay and innuendo I have accepted as truth, but I really would like to see for myself.

Thankyouverymuch.

I am
Dawg