You've probably had this before, but, I'll ask, anyway.

[Johnxathena]

Who do you feel Starbuck is more suited to, i.e. compatible with? Athena or Cassiopeia?

[Senmut]

Cassie.
Athena may have a 'cleaner" history, but she is the product of a stable home environment. Starbuck was orphaned, and grew up in orphanages and foster care. Their outlooks on life are, by virtue of circumstance, very different.
Cassie's dad was a merchant, and she worked with/for him, growing up. We know nothing of her mom, but it seems likely she was always on the go with her merchant father. Such an upbringing puts her a bit closer to Starbuck, in terms of personal history, than Athena.

[Johnxathena]

Thanks, this subject has always bugged me.

[Devlyn16]

On the other hand opposites attract. Anyone who knew me would never have pegged my wife to be the one I ended up with.

Perhaps Athena would have proved a better fit by not mirroring Starbuck's weakness and strengths but by countering them.

[Charybdis]

I think Athena would definitely have been a more stable influence for Starbuck, but that would really make for some tense moments as we saw in SOASW!!!

Overall, I think Cassie was the perfect match because she had been through it all and understood Starbuck deep down and would not get that upset with him with his idiosyncracies...

[BST]

Athena's the one he took to the party, Cassie's the one he went home with.

;)

[Senmut]

Starbuck? Stable?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnxathena]

Is there something amusing, by any chance? :P

[Johnxathena]

@BST

Aye, in my own personal view and opinion, if Cassiopeia was the one who was aboard the Galactica, and Athena was the one who was aboard the Gemonese freighter, Starbuck would have still chosen the former.

[Benedict]

Cassie. Yet I wonder sometimes, I know BSG80 is iffy at best but when in Return of Starbuck he says to Boomer to say goodbye to all that he names as well as those women Boxey names. Dare I say like James Bond ol' Starbuck will never settle with one woman.

[Johnxathena]

Ah, but, before Starbuck met Cassiopeia, he DID ask Athena to be sealed to him.

In my opinion, he was willing to make a commitment.

[LZaza]

I saw that as Starbuck desperately trying to cling to someone in a moment where he had lost everything. Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, depending on the point of view, Athena in that same moment pushed him away.

Two people reacting oppositely to the same loss and devastation. Not a great basis for a marriage, really.

I could see either relationship working, depending on the scenario (or the fan fiction writer :D )

In classic BSG though, Cassie knew when to cut Starbuck some slack while Athena would rake him over the coals. Cassie was more mature, and if her conversation with Chameleon was any indication--Starbuck? Sealed?--she was living the relationship day by day, her expectations of their future aligned in the very uncertainty of the fate of the human race. And since Starbuck only planned as far ahead as the next patrol, that would suit him just fine.

[WarMachine]

Also, she had previous experience dealing with a famous military figure, i.e. Commander Cain. And while that relationship may have started "professionally", it certainly seemed more than that by the time Cain launched for Molokay...

[LZaza]

So are you saying she was attracted to a certain type of man?

Frankly, I've always seen Starbuck as a young Cain, generally.

[Benedict]

So are you saying she was attracted to a certain type of man?

Frankly, I've always seen Starbuck as a young Cain, generally.

probably what Cass saw him in too considering her history.

[Lara]

Who do you feel Starbuck is more suited to, i.e. compatible with? Athena or Cassiopeia?

My opn'

Cassie.
why:
Her experience as a socialator sets her up to understand him and allow for him. They are in a day to day situation where you live for the moment, and Starbuck isn't going to knowingly do a stable, exclusive relationship with teh Commanders daughter.

Cheers,
Lara

[Senmut]

Probably true, yet I think that inside, given all his history, Starbuck years for something stable. That's why he chose the military. For all the uncertainties of a life at war, the military has a stability to it that he had never known before.

[WarMachine]

So are you saying she was attracted to a certain type of man?

Frankly, I've always seen Starbuck as a young Cain, generally.

Sorry for the delay, Lisa! :(

Personally, as opposed to professionally, yes -- as a Socialator, she does have to be able to adapt to many different types of clients. However, after The Destruction, she could pick and choose in her personal life.

As to Starbuck being Cain/2.0? There's potential there, if someone could rein him in. Athena might be able to do that, but I don't think she would have seen that side of him -- just a gut feeling. Cassie, OTOH, could be far more dispassionate about that judgement...It may be heresy to the military, but a "professional" like Cassie is almost always far better suited to judge the character and potential of an officer than any Personnel Officer...or Judge Advocate, for that matter... ;)

[LZaza]

Interesting on your perception of Athena, Michael. I also think she could rein in Starbuck a bit more effectively than Cassiopeia. Have a plot bunny in the back of my mind about that that I'm not sure will ever come to fruition.

Did you ever read Adam Stacey's stories where he takes Starbuck crash-landing in the Return of Starbuck and then has him awakening on the Pegasus? It's actually a trilogy, and one of my favourites deviations from TOS. Probably, it's what put the perception as Starbuck as a young Cain in my head to begin with. Well, that and the obvious similar character traits, of course.

https://www.msu.edu/user/stacey/Galactica/bg6.htm

https://www.msu.edu/user/stacey/Galactica/gal-fanfic.htm

[BST]

@BST

Aye, in my own personal view and opinion, if Cassiopeia was the one who was aboard the Galactica, and Athena was the one who was aboard the Gemonese freighter, Starbuck would have still chosen the former.


Agreed. While I understand the attraction to Athena, I think that he found a soulmate in Cassiopeia. Another 'benefit' of being linked to Cassi would be that he removes Apollo from having to take sides between his sister and his best friend, if the situation ever arose.

[Senmut]

As well as the stress of being the main squeeze of the Commander's daughter. While Adama was too professional and too much of a gentleman ever to give voice to it, I'm sure it bothered him at times. I know it would me, if it were my daughter.

[LZaza]

I disagree. Adama treated Starbuck like a son, never showing any disapproval over Starbuck and Athena's relationship, even joking about Starbuck's "well defined sense of what lies in waiting" in the LPOTG. Besides that, chances are neither Athena or Starbuck would share any relationship problems they had with Adama, of all people, so he would be none the wiser, like most parents. As well, the basis of Adama's feelings towards Starbuck was that Starbuck's and Athena's relationship was portrayed in TOS as not being intimate, as illustrated by both of their embarrassment when Starbuck walked in on her in the locker room. Athena hiding behind a locker while clad in a pressure suit, and Starbuck turning his back in a --dare I say it??--gentlemanly fashion, well that was clearly not the typical reaction of lovers.

So having established that their relationship was largely innocent, I also believe that Adama saw through the "facade" and the bravado of Starbuck to the quality and the potential of the warrior/man within. Sure, SB had some growing up to do, but he was heroic, honorable and Adama would have welcomed him into the family with open arms, had that ever transpired.

[Senmut]

I saw the scene in the locker room as a reaction, not normative. Starbuck had just ripped Athena a new one on landing, and she'd not taken it all that well, plus having to watch her brother die, and learn about her mom. Under such circumstances, I can imagine her wanting to pull inwards. It was not a "hey hon, how do you like these?" kind of moment. Her mind was in turmoil, she was angry at him, and it is a testament to Athena's strength of character that she was able to overcome.
Another reason I like the character, and feel she has been given short shrift by many.

[LZaza]

And Starbuck had merely watched most of his friends and comrades killed; you forget that little detail in why he was ripping anyone a new one after narrowly escaping death once more that day. Both were reacting to loss, devastation. I liked the honesty of Starbuck's anger in the launch bay in that he perceived the Galactica was pulling out and leaving her fighters for the Cylons to finish off. I'm sure he wasn't the only warrior that felt that way.

Back to that scene in the locker room, it wasn't immediately following the other. They'd both had time to cool down. And Athena most definitely wasn't angry with him. She was resigned, if anything. Devastated. I think we hashed this out a few posts ago, anyhow.


But I stand by the fact that the show portrayed the relationships as innocent, with a distinct lack of sex. We never saw Apollo and Serina get hot and heavy either before their betrothal. There were later scenes where Cassie would giggle girlishly when Athena and Sheba teased her about Starbuck's apparent bruises post Triad with Ortega. Or sharply berate the "Colonel" when he asked what they were doing in the Celestial Dome. And this is our resident socialator. Again, the show purposely portrayed them innocently.

Maybe not entirely realistic, I admit, but still canon.

[Senmut]

You just like to disagree, don't you??????????????????????????????????

[LZaza]

No! :rotf:

Evidently, there's a few things in how we perceive BSG that we're going to perpetually disagree on.

[WarMachine]

This is what happens when I post without enough coffee...*sigh*:wtf:.....What I was trying to say - and failed miserably at - was that I think Athena is only willing to tolerate 'so much' from Starbuck, and nothing more -- past a certain point, I don't think she'll keep trying with him.

As I see her, Athena wants someone much more mature. Any man who comes sniffing around her had better be a straight-up guy, very settled -- professional, competent and mature enough to pay attention to one woman (namely, Athena), without getting distracted by the next skirt that comes along.....Think about it -- as great a pilot and as wonderful a character - in every way - that Starbuck is, the locker room scene showed that there was some reasonably serious history between the two, and honestly, I think she tolerated far more with Starbuck than a lot of women would have, after he makes a 90* hard-a-port turn the minute Cassie crosses his scanners....

Then again, I'm biased :cool:

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17430

[LZaza]

Yet the man you describe Athena being attracted to is the complete opposite of the man she's involved with . . . interesting, huh? :eek:

Might be a case of opposites attracting.

I always found it interesting that later in the series that Starbuck and Athena still appeared to be on good terms. In particular, in War of the Gods, they seemed to be in full flirtation mode while walking down the corridor together post triad game. You don't hear the conversation, but the body language makes one wish you could.

[Senmut]

No! :rotf:

Evidently, there's a few things in how we perceive BSG that we're going to perpetually disagree on.

Not sure I can agree on that.

[BST]

Not sure I can agree on that.



She gonna smack you for that!


Should I call for a medic, just in case?

;)

[Senmut]

No. She'd just feel vindicated! ;)

[BST]

No. She'd just feel vindicated! ;)

It's your call.... make sure you don't "zig" when you should have "zagged".

;)

[Senmut]

Rigging deflectors as we speak.