Here is a question; What can we do to save the character of Athena?

[Damocles]

And save her we must, for it galls me that we have to bump her off as a cast cost cutting measure for the revival.

Any suggestions? I had an idea to use her in a play entitled Athena similar to the type of treatment I did for Sheba Cain, but I ran into a brick wall. What exactly does Athena do for the Galacticans that I can use to make her the hero of her own set piece?

As always;

[Dawg]

Sheba Cain?

Sheba Cain?

Sheba Cain?

:wtf:

:blink:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Eric Paddon]

Does this mean it's "Apollo Adama" as well? ;)

[Damocles]

Does this mean it's "Apollo Adama" as well?


Sheba Cain?

Sheba Cain?

Sheba Cain?

:wtf:

:blink:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

If that was her first name, what was her last?

I doubt that among a Human civilization of billions, that the family name was not the primary family identifier.

So now I have another two questions.

What was Sheba's FAMILY name?

And Athena's?

As always;

[Eric Paddon]

I don't think they had to have family names since after all, that wasn't the case in ancient times. Unless we had something on the Hebrew system of "Apollo bar Adama." You often had ways of distinguishing people of same name based on relationship or profession "Simon the Tanner." "Simon the Zealot." "Pliny the Elder".

[Senmut]

EP, you beat me to it. I was going to mention the very same thing. In ancient cutures, you were So-and-so, son/daughter of What's-their-face. It worked in societies consisting of millions of people in urban settings. It could conceivably work in a society like the Colonies.

[Dawg]

The use of a patronymic was entirely absent from BSG. So, it is at best a matter of speculation as to the naming customs of the Colonies.

In his story "The Last Battlestar", our own Martok2112 supposes an almost Arabic nomenclature where the full name identifies both families - it's a cumbersome system (by design), so that Apollo was normally called "Apollo" rather than his mile-long full name.

However - Canon does not recognize surnames. Apollo was recognized as Adama's son. Sheba was Cain's daughter. No patronymic.

And given some of the naming customs of our own historical cultures, a single name (with the occassional tribal designation, perhaps, when necessary) is not beyond the bounds of reason considering the backstory.

And anything that smacks of the L.A. phone book rubs me the wrong way, anyway.

What is important is that WE know the family links. We know Athena is Adama's daughter. We know Sheba is Cain's daughter. Why must we assign a patronymic that wasn't there before?

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Senmut]

Because the "creative" reimaginers don't seem to be able to figure out what we all just did.

[Senmut]

And save her we must, for it galls me that we have to bump her off as a cast cost cutting measure for the revival.

Any suggestions? I had an idea to use her in a play entitled Athena similar to the type of treatment I did for Sheba Cain, but I ran into a brick wall. What exactly does Athena do for the Galacticans that I can use to make her the hero of her own set piece?

As always;

Have you read the VS2 story, Relics, from the project EP and I are inolved in? Athena has a very major part.

[Damocles]

Have you read the VS2 story, Relics, from the project EP and I are inolved in? Athena has a very major part.

Not yet, but I will.

To my fellows;

As for patrynomics.

The arabs use their tribe as their clan patrynomic. The Asian cultures use their family patrynomic as their primary.

For example Yamamoto, Isoruku.

As for ancient traditions;

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/names.htm

http://jbuff.com/c120502.htm

The point is that whether you refer to the patriarchal or matriarchal or the tribal or the clannish, there was a family group identifier marker assigned to the individual.

I mean how many John Smiths are there? As well as how many Judah ben Rubens?

Enough to show that the family marker was and is a common Human fixture in ALL Human culture.

Another example;

http://life.familyeducation.com/baby/baby-names/45491.html

This is actually the closest example I find that might fit the Colonial pattern of name giving, where a given public name might be a singular honorific, while there might be a private secret name restricted to tribe, clan or family. Still, within the public name there should/would be a distinguisher to refer to tribe or ancestry.

So the question remains; Was Sheba known as simply Sheba or was she Sheba beth (whatever her mother's name was?)
-------------------------------------------------
Now that this question has come up it might be a good idea to just junk the Athena topic for the moment, and discuss the question of the family or clan name, or totem, which to my mind has never been discussed anywhere before as regards CBSG.

By the way, while I may postulate a hard science element in the updating of CBSG to produce the revival, I bitterly resent the use of the term "reimagine" being associated with that outlook. I do not wish to be associated in any way shape or fashion with certain renegade elements who took CBSG and polluted it with a "reimagining."

When I look upon a revival of CBSG, I want a Vermont Brabander on whole wheat, not some cheesey spread on white bread.

As always;

[Eric Paddon]

"Sheba beth (whatever her mother's name was?)"

I wouldn't go that route seeing how in the VS (and all of my fanfic) Sheba's mother's name was Bethany. Sheba beth Bethany would be *very* awkward! :D

[Senmut]

It might be that the Colonies used a system not unlike that adopted by the Romans from the Etruscans. While one usually had three names, they were most often just called by one.
Opinions?

[Dawg]

When I look upon a revival of CBSG, I want a Vermont Brabander on whole wheat, not some cheesey spread on white bread.

As always;

I am extremely fond of cheese. I know a great variety of them - most of the "Swiss"es, most of the French (and I know the bleu-veined cheeses from all over the world), the cheeses that are to be eaten ripe or otherwise - and I live very near some of the best cheddar cheese there is.

Vermont Brabander, however, is a variety I am not familiar with. Educate me, please.

As to the topic of this thread - the naming conventions of the Colonies will be an interesting discussion, particularly when we can look at the naming conventions of historical cultures around the world (and in particular the historic Egyptian conventions) to figure out the roots the Colonies grew from.

This should be fun.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Eric Paddon]

I'll admit that as a writer it's just a lot simpler for me to dispense with the matter of making complex assumptions about last names.

[Lara]

I'll admit that as a writer it's just a lot simpler for me to dispense with the matter of making complex assumptions about last names.

Especially since we didn't even get a breath of it in cannon to run with!.

My contribution to the current discussion...

I toyed with lastnames some years back and couldn't make it work. Jewish or Islamic naming systems were a obvious pik but I didn't feel they sat well with the obviously classical greek names.
I personally like the viking nations tradition of --sson or --dottir, so Toroldsson would be literally Torold's son and Ericadottir is Erica' daughter, but unless we are going to nominate a colony to go Viking (and do strange things with timeline lineups) it 's impossible to make it fit!

In Western European tradition many surnames came out of trade names (Wright, Smith, Farrier, Carter etc..), so John the Wright was different to John the Farrier etc, but they were all only John by birth and Wright adn farrier go regularised later, and then dissosociated from the actual trade.
Even Kings had bynames like Longshanks, the Confessor etc, but not to their face, when they would be Edward, King of England, which is Edward and his titles..The root of all this is they only had a given name, plus their designation, and this is consistent with TOS usage, as Captain Apollo, Commander Adama, vs another Apollo, or another Adama, no matter how odd it may be.

The other inconvenience in TOS cannon is the patently silly names like Greenbean or Jolly. The temptation is to see these as the bynames, (longshanks or 'the red')and because they are pilots, these make good call signs. Now plenty of my father in law's generation have names that are not their given ones: Bluey, or Snow are two examples, and I know people who the whole town knows only as 'chooky' or 'spud' as a play on fowler and murphy. Whether this would be used by their CO in a foraml militray setting liek and award ceremony is another complication!

So I am looking forward to see what falls out of this discussion, cos name references etc are always a good pickup for the library.

Cheers,
Lara

[WarMachine]

While I would have agreed with you on "Jolly", after "Tomb Raider", et al, I have to point out "Jolie" and "Joliet"[sp?](the last being a town here in the USA, famous for a prison).

I've always assumed that Jolly, Greenbean, Boomer and Starbuck were simply call-signs; whether a person likes their name or not, sometimes the nickname/callsign sticks.

As to patronymics/matronymics, I'm sure that the issue falls into one of two camps: either Martok's view (that the formal name is a mile long, even for non-"noble" families, and the single name is a convenience), or that it's simply a Scandanavian-like "Son-of"/"Daughter-of" convention.....To be honest, both of those systems likely predominate, along with the "crafter-nymic" - look at how diverse Human culture is on one planet -- and the Colonies have TWELVE!



My contribution to the current discussion...

<SNIP>

The other inconvenience in TOS cannon is the patently silly names like Greenbean or Jolly. The temptation is to see these as the bynames, (longshanks or 'the red')and because they are pilots, these make good call signs. Now plenty of my father in law's generation have names that are not their given ones: Bluey, or Snow are two examples, and I know people who the whole town knows only as 'chooky' or 'spud' as a play on fowler and murphy. Whether this would be used by their CO in a foraml militray setting liek and award ceremony is another complication!

So I am looking forward to see what falls out of this discussion, cos name references etc are always a good pickup for the library.

Cheers,
Lara

[cobrastrikelead]

I always figured, "House of," and then the senior male member took on the name of the house.

But that's my shorthand. You people do well to keep up the quality-control.

[Damocles]

I am extremely fond of cheese. I know a great variety of them - most of the "Swiss"es, most of the French (and I know the bleu-veined cheeses from all over the world), the cheeses that are to be eaten ripe or otherwise - and I live very near some of the best cheddar cheese there is.

Vermont Brabander, however, is a variety I am not familiar with. Educate me, please.

As to the topic of this thread - the naming conventions of the Colonies will be an interesting discussion, particularly when we can look at the naming conventions of historical cultures around the world (and in particular the historic Egyptian conventions) to figure out the roots the Colonies grew from.

This should be fun.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

Vermont Brabander is from Three Shepherds, a natural rind, aged gouda-style cheese made with cows milk.

Right now I am leaning toward three possibilities, Mycaenean or Greek, Egyptian or Native American conventions.

For the Greek;
http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/names/index.html
For the Macedonian;
http://www.geocities.com/mariamnephilemon/names/europa/mycenaean.html

I've already given source data for the Egyptians and the Native Americans.

For the Macedonians: the heroic epithet couplet might be part of the naming convention; such as Hector, breaker of horses; or Odysseus, the Wiley. Translated to Colonials that might be Athena, the quick-witted; or Starbuck, the charming one.

Apollo, the valorous.
Adama, the wise.
Tigh, the stoic.

You can see how that would work in CBSG-like Homeric poetry.

But you have to infer that from the characters. And you have to assume that the chroniclers would record them as such in their written and oral legends.

As always;

[Senmut]

Sheba Cain?

Sheba Cain?

Sheba Cain?

:wtf:

:blink:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:


Was that Tubal-Cain's sister???

:D
Sorry.

[Senmut]

Siriusly, we save Athena by burying TPTB in any revival with letters, e-mails, iron balls, making it clear that WE WANT HER!!!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD.
And exile to a Cylon platinum mine if they don't!