Review on Issue #1 of TOS BSG Comic?

[spcglider]

Hey all,

Anybody read the first issue? Any reviews? Its been VERY quiet about it here. You'd think that it would merit a little more yakkety yak.

Me? I read it and was pleasantly surprised.

As with any first issue, there are bits here and there that don't ring true, but overall it was a fair shot at a first issue. I know it will only get better.

The art was probably the largest concern for me. I've been in email contact with the artist and he says that he had to do all of his own research for how things looked, so he apologizes for the innaccuracies that are there. He didn't have a lot to go by!

To that end, I've been supplying him with lots of images OF EVERYTHING. He should have a pretty darned big morgue file to pull from now.

I have to push kudos at the author Rick Remender... he's trying really hard to keep the script true to the original show. I haven't heard back from him, but I wrote about the first issue. I asked if he had started off with a "lost warrior" story as homage or if it was a convenient place to start to kick off the series. I know he intends to give us WAY more than just that. In his last email to me, he asked if there were any unuresolved issues from the show that I'd like to see dealt with. I gave up a few suggestions, but on the whole, I don't tend to reflect on what's happening behind... I want to see the next step. I want to see where the fleet takes me next week.

So, here it is. A new thread devoted to opinion about the new comic.

Okay folks, let 'er rip! I want to know if you agree or dis-agree. Liked it or didn't like it. Loved it or hated it. So start talking! :)

-Gordon :salute: :viper: :colonial

[gmd3d]

I have to get it first :) I have seen some ART for BSG comics .... and what I saw looks great ...its a comic I will be buying ..
Should ask him to come here .. I am sure there are a large number of issues that oh a few people would like to get their teeth into......

[Eric Paddon]

I think what's dampened interest in the comic is the fact that Dynamite is so adamant that they will never do any post-HOG stories meaning everything is going to be stuck in the middle of the series itself. If they aren't going to venture into fresh territory the whole problem with the comic book becomes one of "what's the point?"

[KJ]

Agreed!

KJ

[Dawg]

I agree as well, but will be looking for it. If it is of good quality and faithful to the show, even a limited-run effort deserves our support.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[peter noble]

I think what's dampened interest in the comic is the fact that Dynamite is so adamant that they will never do any post-HOG stories meaning everything is going to be stuck in the middle of the series itself. If they aren't going to venture into fresh territory the whole problem with the comic book becomes one of "what's the point?"

I'm sure the mini written by one of the Lost writers takes place after HOG.

As for the comic itself, it was fair.

Tha figures were excellently drawn but the tech wasn't very good.

There were niggles I had, Apollo not being a lefty, "frack" being used in the context of the f-bomb and Starbuck and Tigh calling Adama when they should have addressed him as Commander.

And why would a Cylon be carrying edible supplies?

I'll buy the series but it better improve pretty quickly.

[martok2112]

For anyone else who would like to address concerns over the comic...not that I'm sure it'll do much good...but here's the thread that several of us had some active participation in, which is being moderated by one of the writers (I believe)...

http://www.dynamiteentertainment.com/boards/showthread.php?t=224&page=2&pp=10


Respectfully,
Martok2112

[jewels]

I think any reference to cylons having edible supplies would come from the novels....the term was "consumables" as far as I remember. (I remember thinking it was a cute word choice when I saw it).

[gmd3d]

Thanks for the link Steve .. going to hop over there now :)

[bionicbob]

As for the comic itself, it was fair.

Tha figures were excellently drawn but the tech wasn't very good.

There were niggles I had, Apollo not being a lefty, "frack" being used in the context of the f-bomb and Starbuck and Tigh calling Adama when they should have addressed him as Commander.

And why would a Cylon be carrying edible supplies?

Well I just read issue one and I have to admit I was a bit disappointed.

The art was good I thought but I had alot of issues with the story.

None of the characters rang quite "true" to me, all just a little off. I too had a serious problem of Starbuck addressing Adama inapropriately. Also the lack of use of proper Galactica-speak (using terms such as "weeks" instead of sectars...etc).

Also, this comic seems to be aimed directly as already well versed Galactica fans, the comic does nothing for newbie readers, there is no recap of previous events or proper introduction of each characters. If you had never seen Galactica before one would have a hard time understanding who and what was going on.

But my biggest issue was the story itself, now I realized it is only the FIRST issue, but so far it comes across as a direct remake of the storyline from the new Galactica tv series. In the first season, female Starbuck has to go back to the Colonies to recover the Arrow of Apollo to help find Earth and runs into a hunky resistance fighter. And what happens in the first comic issue? Hunky male Starbuck has to go back to the Colonies to find an ancient artifact to help find Earth and runs into a sexy resistance fighter. On the surface, a bit to uncomfortablely familiar.

Also, why are they using the new TV series logo on the comic cover and not the original classic series logo?

Anyway, I will give it another issue or two, hopefully the series will improve but so far I was disappointed. :thumbdown

[spcglider]

I'm sure the mini written by one of the Lost writers takes place after HOG.

As for the comic itself, it was fair.

Tha figures were excellently drawn but the tech wasn't very good.

There were niggles I had, Apollo not being a lefty, "frack" being used in the context of the f-bomb and Starbuck and Tigh calling Adama when they should have addressed him as Commander.

And why would a Cylon be carrying edible supplies?

I'll buy the series but it better improve pretty quickly.

You nailed exactly the items I mentioned to Rick in my email.

-G

[spcglider]

Well I just read issue one and I have to admit I was a bit disappointed.

The art was good I thought but I had alot of issues with the story.

None of the characters rang quite "true" to me, all just a little off. I too had a serious problem of Starbuck addressing Adama inapropriately. Also the lack of use of proper Galactica-speak (using terms such as "weeks" instead of sectars...etc).

Also, this comic seems to be aimed directly as already well versed Galactica fans, the comic does nothing for newbie readers, there is no recap of previous events or proper introduction of each characters. If you had never seen Galactica before one would have a hard time understanding who and what was going on.

But my biggest issue was the story itself, now I realized it is only the FIRST issue, but so far it comes across as a direct remake of the storyline from the new Galactica tv series. In the first season, female Starbuck has to go back to the Colonies to recover the Arrow of Apollo to help find Earth and runs into a hunky resistance fighter. And what happens in the first comic issue? Hunky male Starbuck has to go back to the Colonies to find an ancient artifact to help find Earth and runs into a sexy resistance fighter. On the surface, a bit to uncomfortablely familiar.

Also, why are they using the new TV series logo on the comic cover and not the original classic series logo?

Anyway, I will give it another issue or two, hopefully the series will improve but so far I was disappointed. :thumbdown

Not having watched most of the new show, I didn't notice a parallel.

If all of the references and information I've passed on to Rick and Carlos are getting used, you should see a marked improvement in the following issues.

I urge you to let the creative time have some time to settle in.

I have to admit I was a little taken aback at the use of the new show logo as well. But that's an editorial choice... shouldn't be blamed on Rick or Carlos.

And thanks for posting the link to the other board. I'm running there right now!

-G

[KamikazeAthena]

I have to agree with all of the comments here. I liked it but... (insert the previous comments of others.)

Also, I thought that Starbuck was actually a little too cocky. He needs to come down a notch or two.

The cover art drawn by Dave Dorman is fab! Yeah, I have seen the pic of Dirk before but the artist "captured it." The cover for the second one that is drawn by the same guy is even better. I would love a poster of that!

I did not catch the GINO story line. GRRRR..... I saw the thanks to Ron Moore and that made me suspicious. Now I know why. Maybe Dynamite should just pull him out of the mix.

I will check out at least the next few issues, regardless.

Dy

[Eric Paddon]

If Glen Larson is not properly given credit in the comic book, then they may have just opened themselves up to some serious legal trouble.

[skippercollecto]

I have acquired the second issue of Dynamite Entertainment BG comic. The overall story is about Starbuck and Boomer crash-landing on a planet that used to be Sagittarian, but has been taken over by the Cylons. There are two different front covers, but the one I got is very silly and has nothing to do with the story. These are my comments.
1. This is very much a post 9-11 story. One of the comments by one of the survivors says this, "We have transformed the basement of this trade center into a makeshift stronghold." Those words and the accompanying drawing would never have been in the imaginations of the writers of the original Marvel Comic books. They're actually a little chilling.
2. Why is it that every BG comic ever written (and I suppose all comics based on TV shows or movies) show the female characters as much bustier than they are in real life?! Serina's about to fall out of her dress!
3. There are odd typos, such as Muffet and Zach, and the Earth time terminology, such as week, is annoying.
4. On the other hand, the back cover, which is a promo for issue #3, is the best drawing in the book.

[spcglider]

I sent an email to Rick about the amazing number of typos in this issue...especially in the conversation between Serina and Apollo on page 11. They were all editor's nightmare typos too... words that were mis-spelled but still were valid words otherwise so an automated spellchecker didn't catch them.

Apollo was found in the DESSERT? What is that, some sort of kinky "colonial warrior" hazing ritual? LOL!!

Anyway, I'm sure they'll correct that stuff for the compilation.

As for storywise, I was a little surprised at the familiarity with which serina referred to Starbuck... and the advanced level of the relationship between Apollo and Serina. I mean, this is all taking place VERY SOON after the destruction. These characters would still be getting to know each other... the fleet would still be a very fragile entity. The warriors would still be checking ships out for Solium leaks and such. Nobody would be settled in yet.

The plot concerning Starbuck and Boomer is pretty much a standard "lost warrior" story. Can't say I'm too thrilled with the post 9-11 overtones either, but I'm not sure they are completely concious on the part of the writer. I may be wrong.

I tend to agree though... any conscious attempt to make THIS property reflect the NEW property would be a monumental mistake. As it stands, I see confusion at the comic shops simply because the Banner on the cover of BOTH books is exactly the same. Comic shop flunkies are stacking them all together like they were ONE title.

WE WANT OUR OLD BANNER BACK!!! At least something DIFFERENT.

-G

[Eric Paddon]

You can not have an advanced relationship between Apollo and Serina *before* they get to Carillon, which evidently is what's happening in this storyline and is another classic case of how these people have no clue when it comes to the simple realization that stories set during the episodes ultimately undermine the episodes themself.

[martok2112]

I'll have to reread the story, but I'm pretty sure this takes place after Carillon.

[Eric Paddon]

If it takes place after Carillon then that only opens up another can of worms that even more damages the credibility of the story, because if the action is taking place on one of the original 12 Colonies during the initial occupation phase, then why has Adama, whose first priority is to find safe haven for his people, suddenly doubling back toward the Colonies? There would be no rational reason for Adama to do this, and LPOTG is quite clear on the subject that the Cylons haven't discovered the Fleet since Carillon.

[martok2112]

Well, Tommy has made it clear that the official word is that the Cylon Apocalypse story coming up is not post-HOG.

[Eric Paddon]

The very nature of that kind of plot taking place before HOG means the integrity of the episodes are compromised completely from my standpoint.

[spcglider]

I have to agree. It takes a whole lotta jig dancing to tell tales in-between an already set-in-stone timeline.

I'm willing to let them make their mistakes, though. One of the great arguments for TOS Galactica was that it was never allowed to "settle in" and develop. I'll give this at least that sort of chance.

One of two things will happen. Either they'll manage to interweave successfully or they won't. They will succeed or they will flash off in a heartbeat. But I intend to support them with my readership until they do.

-G

[Eric Paddon]

The *only* stories you can tell coherently during the episodes IMO are low-key inside the Fleet stories, and not big-scale epic battles that would require a re-examination of everything that happens in subsequent episodes, especially if done before "Living Legend." How for instance can you then still have Tigh say to Adama in "Hand Of God," "We haven't dared tangle with a baseship since we fled the Colonies." That very line itself is at the heart of why Adama decides to take the initiative of attacking in that episode because he is "tired of running" and the fact that he's been trying to avoid fights since the Destruction.

These people at Dynamite are the most clueless people I have ever come across when it comes to understanding what makes TOS work. And I have to admit that I am not prepared to let them make mistakes of this kind, because coming on the heels of Hatch's novels with their disregard for everything that happened before, my patience is long exhausted with people who end up getting paid money to do TOS stories and then turn out efforts that are below amateurish in terms of their preparation jobs, especially in contrast to any kind of official Star Trek property that ever gets made.

[spcglider]

And to any number of Star Trek fans out there, the same argument can be made for their favorite property as well. In my opinion, Star Trek Enterprise was possibly the worst sci-fi series ever made... simply because it was done by people who think they know better. Talk about clueless!

Have you seen any of the prequels to Star Wars? Just having a grotesque amount of money (and more than a decade of prep time) doesn't necessarily insure a good story... continuation or otherwise.

Like I said, I'm going to give them some time to settle in. Two issues is hardly a fair sample. If we judged all of The Next Generation solely on "Encounter at Farpoint", that series would have been flushed before it even got started. And it turned out okay.

-G

[PaulGTweed]

In the second Classic BSG issue Starbuck and Boomer use the term dog. Shouldn't they have said Daggit. 'Top Daggit' or 'old wardaggit'.

[WarMachine]

Well, I haven't seen the comics, so I don't feel that I can justify substantial comment on them. However, from the comments of those who have seen them, I probably won't bother.

That said, I have no issue with simply retelling the Classic story in a comic format...Yes, Marvel already did it, but they aren't going to reprint anytime soon, and honestly, I lost interest in them after the started to wildly diverge from the storyline following LPOTG.

Why? Simply, because there is an entire generation of new viewers out there who have only been spoon-fed tales of how much CBSG "sucks", so don't bother - they deserve to know better, as more than a few here can attest.

Within that context, I would not be able to countenance any whacko-deviations, but a little more development in places (and some story tweaks) are probably in order, and wouldn't do violence to the concept - AS LONG AS THEY ARE HANDLED CORRECTLY!

After that? It depends entirely on how the copyright issue is laid out, i.e., whether they are allowed to do anything after HoG. If they aren't, and I were in charge, I wouldn't even bother with the property at all, or I would run a alternate Colonial setting, either from the Pegasus, or another Battlestar...

...But the deal would need to be pretty sweet for me to try it.

[Dawg]

That said, I have no issue with simply retelling the Classic story in a comic format...Yes, Marvel already did it, but they aren't going to reprint anytime soon... <snip>

Um, you'd be mistaken.... ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Battlestar-Galactica-Saga-World-Paperback/dp/1840239301/sr=1-4/qid=1166043503/ref=sr_1_4/002-9979080-1970436?ie=UTF8&s=books

This volume also contains some extras, some of them from people you know. And there is a following volume as well.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[WarMachine]

Um, you'd be mistaken.... ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Battlestar-Galactica-Saga-World-Paperback/dp/1840239301/sr=1-4/qid=1166043503/ref=sr_1_4/002-9979080-1970436?ie=UTF8&s=books

This volume also contains some extras, some of them from people you know. And there is a following volume as well.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

I stand corrected - on that point :D

More seriously, I stand by my other points.....

[Dawg]

I stand corrected - on that point :D

More seriously, I stand by my other points.....

Of course.

What drives me nuts is how a universe with such promise has recieved such shoddy treatment over the years. There are times I think Universal wouldn't know how to treat a hot property if it came up and bit them on the hiney and handed them an instruction book.

And I won't get into the idiot reviewers and commentators who refuse to admit BSG was pretty darn good for 1978 and insist on judging content and effects by 2006 standards.

I have to go back to work now. ;)

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Eric Paddon]

WarMachine, it isn't a question of their not being "allowed" to do post-HOG stories, it's a question of them purposefully deciding not to do so for what has to rank as the dumbest rationale I've ever heard from anyone, that because too many people in the TOS fanbase have their own ideas of what should happen, they would not be able to please everyone but "core" TOS fans, so therefore they decide that stuck-in-a-rut storytelling that constantly undermines the very premises of the original episodes themself is somehow a better way to go.

These people are even worse than Richard Hatch's ghostwriters when it comes to not having a clue about TOS and its appeal. Frankly, given the incredible arrogance of the powers-that-be at Dynamite that I've seen on their message boards, they approached this project from the perpsective of condescending disdain for TOS that's been fostered by those responsible for another nameless show, namely that TOS is only to be regarded as a guilty pleasure in which neato FX is all anyone liked about it, so therefore let's just do FX-laden stories and keep all the characters forever locked into their stereotyped templates, since by their reckoning you couldn't possibly get a good TOS story that explores the characters and the rich nuances that TOS fans know exist in the series and in storytelling potential.

I've written them off as a lost cause, and the only recourse I have is to not waste a penny on anything they put out.

[WarMachine]

WarMachine, it isn't a question of their not being "allowed" to do post-HOG stories, it's a question of them purposefully deciding not to do so for what has to rank as the dumbest rationale I've ever heard from anyone, that because too many people in the TOS fanbase have their own ideas of what should happen, they would not be able to please everyone but "core" TOS fans, so therefore they decide that stuck-in-a-rut storytelling that constantly undermines the very premises of the original episodes themself is somehow a better way to go.

You're kidding.....you're NOT kidding. :wtf:

That's the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time.

That's enough to get me to start shopping for a comic artist to ink VS2 and 'Fields'.....


[SET RANT MODE TO "ON"]

WTF?!

What the Hell happened? I'm starting to feel like Steve McQueen at the end of "Sand Pebbles": WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!? :mad:

I'm not kidding - I'm getting seriously p*%%ed off about this.

Did I miss a meeting? 'Cause from where I'm sitting, it sure as HELL feels like I just woke up one morning about 8 years ago, to find out that the entire world collectively dropped about a THOUSAND IQ points overnight! What did they do, spike the water?

What? Did the press' enamoration with Bubba Clinton's cigar choices trip a preprogrammed "DUUUUUHHHHHH" switch? I didn't think that the Clipper Chip was implantable.

I seem to recall that, while rather annoying, having c.30% of the population wandering around with the mouth-breathing IQ of ice in a liquid-nitrogen bath was an 'ignorable' problem -- suddenly, I wake up, and now 99-fracking-percent of the population has the combined brainpower of a single strand of dry pasta!

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!? :mad:

[SET RANT MODE TO "OFF"]

[spcglider]

In the second Classic BSG issue Starbuck and Boomer use the term dog. Shouldn't they have said Daggit. 'Top Daggit' or 'old wardaggit'.

You are absolutely correct.
Somebody wasn't doing their job.
-G

[Eric Paddon]

WarMachine, your reaction is the same as mine has been all throughout this thing. I keep wanting to slap myself on the side of the head as if I just heard someone say in all sincerity, the world is flat.

These people actually think we'd complain too much about a continuation storyline not being done a certain way, and thus this is somehow a safer choice even though from a creativity standpoint it's idiotic.

[spcglider]

The rationale for telling stories within the existing Galactica storyline is weak at best. Agreed.

As I've posted in other forums, EVERY writer that inherits a popular property (for example Spiderman, Superman, X-men, etc. etc. etc.) runs the risk of doing something that the "core fans" will dislike. And THIS decision is a perfect example of that.

But how many times have we publicly BEGGED for a continuation? How MANY different continuation efforts have we ALL supported? One would have to be practically deaf, dumb and blind (no offense to deaf dumb or blind people.. just an expression) to have missed all that folderol over the past what, 28 years?

Honestly? They've chosen a VERY difficult path. If they thought they'd have troubles with uberfans picking apart their continuation, what did they think would happen when they mistakenly challenge the continuity?

All in all, we're between a rock and a hard place as fans. If this series tanks, I will guarantee you that the property WILL be damaged in the eyes of future bean counters who are looking at the viability of a new TOS comic series. They don't look at what blunders were made. They look ONLY at how much money was generated. That's just the truth.

And honestly, it's only a few bucks once a month to support something that officially represents something I'm gonna be spending money on anyway... my hobby. So I'm going to continue to follow the series.

-Gordon

[WarMachine]

.....Makes you wonder whatever happened to "focus groups"...... :(

[Eric Paddon]

It seems like that everytime someone actually gets an opportunity to do an "official" TOS project, they come into it with all the prejudices about TOS that were shaped and defined by TOS detractors. As a result, they literally come into it with not a clue for what it is that made the series endure in popularity with its fans for so many years. Even Richard Hatch is guilty of this, because the fact that he wrote stories that showed not the slightest regard for looking back at what actually happened in the original episodes before proceeding with a new story, or not hiring a ghostwriter who could go back and check, reveals that even a guy like Hatch thinks fans actually don't pay attention to what went on in the series and only remember TOS through a fuzzy lens.

Max Press comics series started out great (the first two miniseries they did are IMO the best "official" TOS project that's ever been done) but the problem is they didn't realize that they needed to slow down and be low-key for a bit in between "big" stories, and they started to take a kitchen-sink approach of fitting in everything big they could, and then their last story they insulted the intellgence of the fans by basically "rebooting" the entire TOS universe in which everything else that had happened would, if they had continued, been cast aside.

Scalf's comics just didn't last long enough, but they were starting off okay and if *that* had been the kind of thing Dynamite was doing I'd be enthusiastic.

Regarding the assertion that if we don't buy this, we'll hurt TOS in the future, I just can't be swayed by that argument any longer. Dynmate is NEVER going to budge on this point. They insultingly said we had to produce 10,000 signatures on a petition just to prove there's *any* kind of interest in continuation stories, which was an impossible thing to ask of a fanbase that has signed more petitions then it cares to remember and is fed up with having to prove itself to people who have nothing but contempt for the property. They are going to go this route for years on-end, because if issues sell, they'll call that vindication for their own efforts. Frankly, if this fails and the comic rights to TOS go back into a limbo status I think that's better than what we're getting now.

[WarMachine]

Have to agree with EP on this one......I'd rather chill out and read stuff done by fans who actually appreciate CBSG, than mess with trash - even pretty trash - done by people who couldn't care less.

All of these yo-yo's keep spewing-forth that they "care" about TOS -- well, if that's the case, SHOW IT.....

[Dawg]

I hate focus groups.....

But that aside, properly speaking this comic series is NOT a "Continuation". These stories are set within the existing episodic timeline.

That's what's got Eric's knickers in a knot. They're telling stories set in between the episodes that were shown - and apparently doing a pretty poor job of maintaining continuity between their stories and the canon set by the episodes. They need a story editor who is very familiar with BSG canon - and they can't even get the nomenclature for the pets right....

:/:

Edit: I really must learn to type faster...

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[WarMachine]

I hate focus groups.....

But that aside, properly speaking this comic series is NOT a "Continuation". These stories are set within the existing episodic timeline.

That's what's got Eric's knickers in a knot. They're telling stories set in between the episodes that were shown - and apparently doing a pretty poor job of maintaining continuity between their stories and the canon set by the episodes. They need a story editor who is very familiar with BSG canon - and they can't even get the nomenclature for the pets right....

:/:

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

Yeah, but that IS the point: even if you are starting out be "retelling" Season 1, you can't 'crowbar' too many things in between cannon eps without eventually violating those eps.

And for the record, telling "filler" stories in between isn't bad, per se, but when you state point blank that there is a definate, predetermined end to your storyline (i.e., nothing after HoG), you are setting yourself up to fail. MJS got away with that in B5 because his was a fresh vision - Dynamite is already behind, because they are retreading old turf, and need to play catchup.

I think the main issue is a snotty attitude towards a loyal and dedicated fan-base that could be their best marketing weapon -- it's stupid and petty to treat the one group who can save your line that way, especially when with a little, tiny bit of effort, you can play "Knight on a White Horse" to that group, and they will become devoted supporters.

Hell, that's just good business. :rolleyes:

I have, however, noticed attitudes like this in other venues...and I still don't get it: alienating your pre-existing fan base makes no sense.

Maybe I'm too smart, though..... :...:

[Eric Paddon]

And notice how their upcoming miniseries is supposed to be this big knock-out battle with the Cylons, complete with baseships crashing into oceans. The problem is that you can't do a story like that before HOG because HOG's battle is summed up neatly in Tigh's "We haven't dared tangle with a basestar since we fled the Colonies" and Adama's "I'm tired of running." The only kind of flashback stories set during Season 1 you can plausibly do have to be low-key stories set inside the Fleet, and not epic battles, because if you have epic battles then the credibility of Galactica's *best* episodes like "Living Legend", "War Of The Gods" and "Hand Of God" is destroyed completely, and that's the last thing a TOS fan needs to see.

[bionicbob]

[QUOTE=Eric Paddon]It seems like that everytime someone actually gets an opportunity to do an "official" TOS project, they come into it with all the prejudices about TOS that were shaped and defined by TOS detractors. As a result, they literally come into it with not a clue for what it is that made the series endure in popularity with its fans for so many years. Even Richard Hatch is guilty of this, because the fact that he wrote stories that showed not the slightest regard for looking back at what actually happened in the original episodes before proceeding with a new story, or not hiring a ghostwriter who could go back and check, reveals that even a guy like Hatch thinks fans actually don't pay attention to what went on in the series and only remember TOS through a fuzzy lens.

Max Press comics series started out great (the first two miniseries they did are IMO the best "official" TOS project that's ever been done) but the problem is they didn't realize that they needed to slow down and be low-key for a bit in between "big" stories, and they started to take a kitchen-sink approach of fitting in everything big they could, and then their last story they insulted the intellgence of the fans by basically "rebooting" the entire TOS universe in which everything else that had happened would, if they had continued, been cast aside.

Scalf's comics just didn't last long enough, but they were starting off okay and if *that* had been the kind of thing Dynamite was doing I'd be enthusiastic./QUOTE]

I have never read the Richard Hatch novels (they are very hard to find), what liberties did he take or continuity did he alter or ignore.... just wondering if they are actually worth reading.

I liked the short lived Realm Press BSG series and thought Rob Liefeld's BSG started out interesting but sputtered out quickly.

In this day and age, I will usually only give a new comic title two issues to prove itself (unless I am a big fan of the writer). Comics are very expensive (the days of the 35cent or even dollar comic are long, long gone) and they are also a major production. It takes months for a comic to go from script to art to final printing, during which time the company, writer and editor have plenty of time to get their research right. Thus, the errors and character mistakes in the first two issues clearly indicate to me poor editing, lack of caring or understanding of the property, and over all shoddy craftsmanship. So no matter what the writer may say in forums about his intentions for the series, the proof is in the pages.

You would think an up and coming company like Dynamite (which has published some great stuff so far in OTHER titles) would take a cue from Dark Horse Comics on how to publish a sci-fi franchise tie-in series. DHC's Star Wars comics are some of the best comics out there period. Their three top sellers (KNIGHTS, DARK TIMES, LEGACY) don't even feature any of the key characters and one is a prequel (1000 years before) and the other is a sequel (100 years after)! Thus proving there is an audience for continuation type stories. And why, because the writers focus on good, strong stories and they clearly understand and love the universe that Lucas created.


Now I must admit, I have not read the Dynamite forums, so I wondering do we know for a FACT that the decision to do a non-continuation series was a Dynamite editorial decision or was it a decree from Universal???? Part of me hopes it was a Universal mandate, it might suggest they still have some untapped plans for TOS.... :rolleyes:

[WarMachine]

Now I must admit, I have not read the Dynamite forums, so I wondering do we know for a FACT that the decision to do a non-continuation series was a Dynamite editorial decision or was it a decree from Universal???? Part of me hopes it was a Universal mandate, it might suggest they still have some untapped plans for TOS.... :rolleyes:

Bob,

There are several here who started asking "difficult" questions at the Dynamite board - EP and Martok, among others - about their concept ideas, well before the first ink-blob squirted, and were voiciferous in their displeasure.

At which point, others like myself popped over there, and read the dirty laundry ourselves...So yes, unfortunately, it is true. The only difference is that EP, et al, have kept after them long after I gave up bothering.....

[Eric Paddon]

The problems with Hatch's novels is that he was writing stories, or letting ghostwriters do stories, that didn't take into account *any* of the specific plot points from the original episodes. He has Zac as a SOL being saying to Apollo at one point that he and the advanced beings don't know where Earth is. In fact, at the end of WOTG, the SOL beings *gave* them the general direction on how to find Earth, and this was a point even G80 remembered in the "Return Of Starbuck" episode. Hatch also forgot all about Baltar's imprisonment and release, and also seemed to forget all about the whole Apollo-Sheba relationship and instead plunged into very distasteful plot turns of Apollo-Cassiopeia having relationships at this point. There just wasn't any sense of authenticity to the universe Hatch was creating in his novels. The names were the same, but when you don't ground your stories in a believable atmosphere that shows how well you're familiar with what went on before, you're insulting the intelligence of the fanbase. Trek novels don't do that, nor do Star Wars novels. I find it amazing that with Galactica, there seems to be this stubborn belief that we actually don't know about these kinds of things.

Oh, and if we needed any further hints about how the Dynamite people are ultimately more influenced by a certain other series, consider that their press release for the current miniseries touted the fact that you'd be seeing "toasters" in this one. The only people who use that term for Cylons aren't real fans of TOS.

[bionicbob]

Apollo and Cassie???? Really????

I wonder how many of the novel ideas would have made it into Hatch's Second Coming?

If I were a comic company with the licence to BSG here is what I would do:

1.) I would retell the core stories of season one (SAGA,LPOG,LL,WOG,HOG). The reason for this because there is a whole generation out there that no absolutely nothing about the original series and I think to start immediately as a continuation would negate new readers. Also, it would give the writer to build a better continuity between the episodes and rectify any errors that occurred in the series. (I always felt there was a Missing Chapter between SAGA and LPOG, why Cassie became a Healer, the evolution of Apollo's romance with Serina, the stabilization of the Fleet) Once that was done, I would continue to move forward with all new stories.

2.) I would probably start with a six page back up feature that would eventually spin-off into its own series, probably a series about Adama, Tigh and Cain as young Viper jocks, explore their relationship and Colonial Society before the holocaust and of course how Baltar became who he is and why he hates Adama and Cain so much.

With these two series, I would slowly build upon the franchise, doing supporting mini-series (maybe one about the Pegasus, another about the other squadrons on Galactica, or one from the Cylon perspective.... the possibilities are endless) and specials. As the fan base grows and sales warrent, launch a third or fourth ongoing series. Maybe a another prequel about the 13th Tribe (Battlestar Atlantis anyone?) or skip to the future and tell the tale about Galactica on Earth and the ramifications of that or even a solo series starring either a regular or all new character.

As I said before, I would use Dark Horse Comics as my guide on how to build a strong and viable comic franchise. The trick is finding the right Editor who shares our love and respect for the original series and has the talent to matching the right writer and artist with the material.

Anyway, for what it is worth, those are my two cubits! :rotf:

[Eric Paddon]

Oh, I almost forgot, Hatch forgetting that Rigel was female (and this from a guy who claimed to have had a crush on Sarah Rush when he was doing the show!) and depicting Omega as an old man didn't help either.

[Eric Paddon]

The only difference is that EP, et al, have kept after them long after I gave up bothering.....

Add me to the list of those who gave up with them.

[KJ]

I liked the short lived Realm Press BSG series and thought Rob Liefeld's BSG started out interesting but sputtered out quickly.

Agreed! Had Maximum Press not done that ridiculous time travel story i wonder how long they might've lasted, cos they were doing fine up untill that point. And had Realm Press comics of BG had a much bigger distribution it too would've lasted longer!


In this day and age, I will usually only give a new comic title two issues to prove itself (unless I am a big fan of the writer). Comics are very expensive (the days of the 35cent or even dollar comic are long, long gone) and they are also a major production. It takes months for a comic to go from script to art to final printing, during which time the company, writer and editor have plenty of time to get their research right. Thus, the errors and character mistakes in the first two issues clearly indicate to me poor editing, lack of caring or understanding of the property, and over all shoddy craftsmanship. So no matter what the writer may say in forums about his intentions for the series, the proof is in the pages.


Agreed again. Especially so. If they care so much to do a comic book on a subject that has many fans then, it must be well researched and respected since the prices of comics has indeed skyrocketed! Is it any wonder the industry and artform of comics on the whole is struggling?

Oh, I almost forgot, Hatch forgetting that Rigel was female (and this from a guy who claimed to have had a crush on Sarah Rush when he was doing the show!) and depicting Omega as an old man didn't help either.

Well as you say, it might be the supposed ghostwriters of the Hatch novels who got that fact about Rigel very wrong. But Omega being 70 plus in the books doesn't make him that old in colonial years considering colonials live up to "200" plus yahrens! Even the passage that describes Omega's age lets on that he isn't that old in colonial years by comparsion to 'Earth' human standards.

You would think an up and coming company like Dynamite (which has published some great stuff so far in OTHER titles) would take a cue from Dark Horse Comics on how to publish a sci-fi franchise tie-in series. DHC's Star Wars comics are some of the best comics out there period. Their three top sellers (KNIGHTS, DARK TIMES, LEGACY) don't even feature any of the key characters and one is a prequel (1000 years before) and the other is a sequel (100 years after)! Thus proving there is an audience for continuation type stories. And why, because the writers focus on good, strong stories and they clearly understand and love the universe that Lucas created.

Thats whats bugging me. No disrespect to Dynamite Entertainment but... Why did the copyrights to Battlestar Galactica both for the classic and new series end up at Dynamite when Dark Horse comics was surely a better venue for the copyrights to be done some justice. Everyone who knows anything about comics knows Dark Horse comics would be the most logical choice for them to wind up at!!!

Think Martok and EP should ask the Dynamite fellas over at their website to consider optioning the copyrights after their comic series doesn't work out to another group? We've been asking what happened to the comic rights for years until Dynamite announced they had them. When that gig ends, i want Universal to wise up and give them over to Dark Horse comics and quit fooling everybody around!

KJ

[Dawg]

It might be simply that Dynamite was willing to put up major money that Dark Horse wasn't. Universal has always charged high licensing fees.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[KJ]

Long as BG's comic book rights aren't at Dark Horse comics, we're truly missing out then!

You could petition Universal to make the right decision but we all know how difficult that is?

KJ

[bionicbob]

Oh, I almost forgot, Hatch forgetting that Rigel was female (and this from a guy who claimed to have had a crush on Sarah Rush when he was doing the show!) and depicting Omega as an old man didn't help either.


Ever since I heard about Richard Hatch's SECOND COMING trailer (which I have yet see, I hear it is quite impressive, and even if it isn't it would be nice to see the old guard back in uniform even for only a few minutes) I was always been very curious about his novel series.

I am quite surprised to hear about these changes and errors you mentioned. In articles and interviews and online clips from conventions I have seen, Hatch always comes across as very passionate about BSG. And yet, last night I watched SAGA again but this time with the commentary ON, and I was quite surprised by some of his comments. Hatch came across as not very knowledgeable of Galactica lore as you would suspect from some one who has written six or more novels about the subject. Me suspects a ghost writer.... :(


Atleast, my second favorite HERO (right after LEE MAJORS) Bill Shatner is up front about his using writers for his KIRKverse novels. Also, Shanter may play the clown to the public, but he knows Trek better than most. His KIRK RETURNS novels are some of the best Trek books on the shelves.... :)

[Eric Paddon]

Richard indeed is not very knowledgable about the details of the series. You can forgive actors for not knowing these things, because to them it's a grinding job, but writers are another matter entirely. If you want to *write* you have to do your homework, and if that means sit down and watch the episodes again to get the details straight, so be it. Novelists can spend many long hours doing research on something to get the authenticity of a scene right, and sitting down to watch past episodes in order shouldn't be that taxing to their creative efforts.

The chief problem the commentary reveals is that Richard and company for years have been seeing only the cut theatrical version of the pilot, whereas most of us, through reruns (even edited ones) were always seeing the original version unfurl properly with scenes like the Starbuck-Athena one.

[KJ]

Barring the warrior on the Atlantia on fire and Adama walking into the Council Of Twelve meeting, only the recent 2003 complete series DVD has most of the footage from the pilot episode intact. After the 1978 broadcast, i've heard from some folks over the years that even the 3 hour ABC cut wasn't the most complete version of the pilot on the subsequent reruns on satellite/cable!

You then had the TV version and the movie version of Battlestar Galactica, with blatant differences between both of them. Thats probably why fans over the years have used two VCR's to edit all the footage together to make the longest cut possible.

KJ

[Eric Paddon]

Two other slight variations of what's in the theatrical cut but not on ABC is that Adama refers to Baltar as "Count Baltar" when he asks Adar, "Did (Count) Baltar suggest we remain defenseless?" but the "Count" was snipped out on ABC. Also, after Apollo tells Starbuck his "You're going to be Red and Blue Squadron" plan, on ABC we just hear Starbuck say, "Oh, I get it" but in the theatrical cut it goes on for another two seconds for us to hear him then say, "No, I don't."

[KJ]

Yeah the minor clip was almost like the editor put in the last few seconds of Dirk breaking character or something?

;)

I also perfer the Count Baltar line, as it states his title, Baltar is hardly refered to as "Count" ever again after the pilot episode! As an original member of The Council Of Twelve in the pilot, Baltar must have been pretty powerful to represent his colony and have his own Battlestar (Pacifica?) surely the title of "Count" only adds to all of that making any sense.

The "Saga Of A Starworld" novel and 'The Tombs Of Kobol' Berkley book made Baltar out to be a powerful business man who although envious of Commander Adama, was powerful and respected somewhat in his own right!

KJ

[PaulGTweed]

Glen Larson will be credited in Dynamite's Classic Battlestar Galactica. I don't know if they will add his credit to the the Re-imagined BSG.