We Have at Last Found Earth the Poll

[Sept17th]

The Rag-Tag Fleet finds Earth, the Earth of which Sci-Fi franchise would you most like them to find?

[Centurion Draco]

Well for me, the most comparable with the peace loving enlightened credo of the Colonials would be the perfection of Roddenberry's utopian socialist Federation as in ST-TNG.

Now that's a crossover I'd love to see.

[zankoku]

To fight off teh cylons I think ST NG/DS9 would be better. Wonder what would happen between the Cylons and the borg

[cobrastrikelead]

space above and beyond got my vote because the technologies seemed compatible, somewhat behind the Colonials. They'd still be underdog to the Cylons which was the gist of the original show. They'd stand a chance, but survival would still be a long shot.

[Eric Paddon]

My story in the Library section explains my vote! :)

[Centurion Draco]

LOL, who put Planet of the Apes?

[Eric Paddon]

As I said, my story in the library section explains that vote. To me, the vote is based on storytelling potential, and in the case of POTA, it ended up being two years of my life to write that one!

[BST]

...and it's a damn good story, too!! :D

[Centurion Draco]

As I said, my story in the library section explains that vote. To me, the vote is based on storytelling potential, and in the case of POTA, it ended up being two years of my life to write that one!

Oh wow, I'm certainly intrigued now!
I'll have a looksee later.

[Darrell Lawrence]

space above and beyond got my vote because the technologies seemed compatible, somewhat behind the Colonials. They'd still be underdog to the Cylons which was the gist of the original show. They'd stand a chance, but survival would still be a long shot.I'd have to agree with that. In fact, I plan on doing a few images of Hammerheads vs Raiders ;)

[BST]

Oh wow, I'm certainly intrigued now!
I'll have a looksee later.

CD,

If you like the original POTA movie, with Charlton Heston, you should like this story.

BST

:)

[WarMachine]

Well, voted for B5 because I couldn't decide between it and SAAB - in truth, I'd like to see either.....or both :D

[Damocles]

David Weber's Honor Harrington verse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_Harrington

Manticore is a bunch who can hand the Cylons their heads; and give the Colonials a New Haven(Pun intended.) .

As a side question, I ask? What makes one think that the Colonials would be welcomed into the Federation dystopia?

Two more radically dfifferent foundational ideologies I cannot imagine.

As always;

[BST]

David Weber's Honor Harrington verse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_Harrington

Manticore is a bunch who can hand the Cylons their heads; and give the Colonials a New Haven(Pun intended.) .

As a side question, I ask? What makes one think that the Colonials would be welcomed into the Federation dystopia?

Two more radically dfifferent foundational ideologies I cannot imagine.

As always;

What makes one think that they won't?

;)

[Damocles]

What makes one think that they won't?

;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek_races

Example;

Antican
The Anticians are a species of aliens from Star Trek. They are slightly cat-like with dark fur and white hair. They applied for Federation membership but the ruling decision was put off because of their hostilities with their neighbors, the reptilian Selay. In a quest for meat, the Antician diplomatic team supposedly cooked and ate a member of the Selay delegation.

Example;

Bandi
The Bandi are a humanoid species native to the planet Deneb IV in the Alpha Quadrant. The Bandi appealed to the United Federation of Planets for membership in 2364 but were rejected due to the fact that they had captured and enslaved an alien life form. The Bandi's first appearance was in the Star Trek: The Next Generation first episode "Encounter at Farpoint".

Perhaps purely by coincidence, "Bandi" was the name of a vaguely ursine empathic parasite in an early Star Trek story premise by David Gerrold, who was involved in the development of Star Trek: The Next Generation, and who novelized "Encounter at Farpoint."

Slavery and eating sapients are two reasons known.

Probably denying Cylons Colonial ^civil rights^ and practising religion would be two others.

Besides, while the Feds could use the technology transfer, why would the Colonials after they see them, want to join THEM?

As always;

[Eric Paddon]

Just imagine Starbuck trying to adjust to a society with no money (which was a silly TNG creation since Trek-TOS had no such thing). I can't, without him making some choice Starbuckian observations. :)

[Centurion Draco]

CD,

If you like the original POTA movie, with Charlton Heston, you should like this story.

BST

:)
YEah, I love the POTA movies! Even bought the TV series dvd set as well!

[Centurion Draco]

As a side question, I ask? What makes one think that the Colonials would be welcomed into the Glorious Federation Utopia?

Two more radically dfifferent foundational ideologies I cannot imagine.

As always;

The survivors of twelve federally joined colony planets with ancestral links to Earth.
Non-imperial, ruled by an elected council of representatives from each planet with an overseeing president (rather like the federation!). Peace loving champions of all-inclusive equal rights. Deeply spiritual, but not oppressively religious. Long lost cousins, with a history of contact and trade with alien races ten times longer than Starfleet's, based not on conquest, but on equality, trade and friendship, even protection in the case of the Hassari at ultimately huge cost to the Colonials.

My god! What would the Federation Council do faced with such evil! What could they possibly have in common with these monsters???
It's unthinkable that the 150 planets of the federation would allow these few thousand like minded souls santuary!
What was I thinking?

:rotf:

========= U.S.S GALACTICA =========

[Centurion Draco]

Just imagine Starbuck trying to adjust to a society with no money (which was a silly TNG creation since Trek-TOS had no such thing). I can't, without him making some choice Starbuckian observations. :)

But I'd love to see him try and pull Diana Troy!

He'd be the fraking coolest Dawwggitt in the Federation.
It'd be like Shaft getting a seat on the board of Microsoft!

[BST]

Damocles,

Without getting too analytical about the Earth society that the Fleet may encounter, either Trek timeframe - TOS or TNS/DS9/Voyager, could appeal to the Colonials. There are multiple societal similarities such as the regard for life, the various freedoms and liberties, and planetary sovereignty to name a few. Primarily, my choice (ST:TOS) dealt with the technological AND 'human' sides of the equation. My hope was that when the Fleet found Earth, that we were of comparable technological standing without having things quite as neatly bundled and packaged as the TNG timeframe.

BST

:)

[Damocles]

The survivors of twelve federally joined colony planets with ancestral links to Earth.
Non-imperial, ruled by an elected council of representatives from each planet with an overseeing president (rather like the federation!). Peace loving champions of all-inclusive equal rights. Deeply spiritual, but not oppressively religious. Long lost cousins, with a history of contact and trade with alien races ten times longer than Starfleet's, based not on conquest, but on equality, trade and friendship, even protection in the case of the Hassari at ultimately huge cost to the Colonials.

My god! What would the Federation Council do faced with such evil! What could they possibly have in common with these monsters???
It's unthinkable that the 150 planets of the federation would allow these few thousand like minded souls santuary!
What was I thinking?

:rotf:

========= U.S.S GALACTICA =========


Originally Posted by Damocles

As you misquote me CD. :rotf:

As a side question, I ask? What makes one think that the Colonials would be welcomed into the Glorious Federation Utopia?


When I actually wrote;

As a side question, I ask? What makes one think that the Colonials would be welcomed into the Federation dystopia?

Two more radically dfifferent foundational ideologies I cannot imagine.

One of these guys must be running around loose;

http://www.f.kth.se/~f00-dar/irrbloss/images/xVorlon.jpg

Here is a bit of fluff that raises some valid points.


To be continued..............

[Damocles]

http://www.progress.org/archive/fold284.htm



Editorial


The Political Economy of Star Trek


by Fred E. Foldvary, Senior Editor
Star Trek, in case you don't know, is a science fiction show on television that takes place in the future. The original Star Trek ran during the 1960s, and the show was later revived in several series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager, the current one called "Enterprise" after the space ship, which is under the authority of Starfleet Command. There have also been several movies starring the crews of the television series. The star ship's mission is to explore new worlds, trekking where no Earthling has gone before.

Star Trek crews are multi-racial and multi-species, with beings from several different planetary systems. The original Star Trek had Spock, a Vulcan, and Enterprise now has the female Vulcan, T'Pol, and a non-earthling doctor. The captains have been human beings from earth, including a female captain in Voyager . The earth is the capital planet of the United Federation of Planets, which is sometimes at war with enemy species.

In the Star Trek saga, Earthian cultural customs continue into the future. People still get married. Children are raised by their parents. Humanoids, except for Ferengi females, still wear clothes. Religion still exists.

Among the amazing scientific advances are the ability to travel and communicate faster than light (at warp speed), the ability to beam a person to another location with a transporter, and a universal translator that enables the crew to communicate with beings in other planets. Almost all of the non-Earth species encountered are humanoid, shaped and sized like human beings, with some alteration, usually as odd facial features. Star Trek is really about people.

The most fantastic scientific phenomenon is the ability to travel through time into the past or the future, a feat that challenges not just the laws of physics but perhaps even logic, as it raises the question of how one can exist in two different timelines at the same time. This feat is not something that the Trek ships can do at will; it is an accomplishment of the future beyond Star Trek's time, of some civilizations, and an occasional disturbance of the space-time continuum.

In such a future world, would the fundamental laws of economics have changed? From what I have observed watching the show, the principles of economics have endured. Even though the crew can create food with replicators, scarcity still exists. Their energy source is not infinite, and the crew occasionally has to replenish its materials. The concept of trade is present, as the Enterprise sometimes engages in an exchange with those in another ship or a planet.

Death still exists, and it looks like the human lifespan has not fundamentally changed. So time is still a scarce resource, along with materials. The ship is organized along military lines, the captain being in charge. The internal economy of a Star Trek ship is like a typical firm, the rule being from each according to their abilities and to each according to his needs and rank, not much different from today's naval vessels and space stations.

Back on earth and the other planets of the Federation, I recall some allusion to Federation people no longer needing money, although the mercenary Ferengi used money. Evidently, the Trek crew members are not paid beyond their consumption in the ship. Little is said about the economy of the Federation, but since there seems to be general prosperity, it is evidently a market economy, which would necessarily have to use money.

Even if goods such as food, clothing, and electronic gadgets can be cheaply replicated, land will always be scarce. The future earth is no bigger than today's planet, and the most desired locations have to be rationed. The fundamental physical law still applies, that two bodies cannot be at the same place at the same time. Scarce land will still have a rent.

Since the peoples of the earth are no longer at war with one another, this implies not just religious tolerance, but a lack of economic conflicts. The only way to assure an equitable and prosperous economy is to have free-market money and the use of rent for public finances instead of taxing labor and capital. Such economic science fiction would make a good story!

It seems that everyone on earth speaks English. The invented languages of the Klingons, who eventually make peace with the Federation, and of the Vulcans, have actually been compiled into dictionaries. Even with universal translators, there would need to be some official federation languages in which documents are inscribed. Vulcans, being logical beings, would advocate a neutral and simple universal language, most likely one which earth has now had for over 100 years, namely, Esperanto. Surely the Federation uses Esperanto as its universal language, which is automatically translated into English for the television audience!

A thrilling story and saga requires conflict. We get plenty of conflict in Star Trek, including violence, as various alien species such as the Romulans are constantly at war. What are these wars about? Almost all the fighting is over turf, protecting and expanding territory. The wars in Star Trek, just like today's wars on earth, are about land and the control of other beings. The Star Trek ships often enter into spatial areas claimed by some empire or planet, and they are ordered to get out. (The plot is often that a crew member has gotten stuck in some moon or has been captured, and the ship can't leave until they get him back.) Probably the worst enemy is the Borg, a totalitarian empire which seeks to assimilate all other beings.

So even in the vastness of space, territory is a scarce resource that is the greatest source of conflict. In today's world, even when the conflict is not violent, land remains a source of political conflict, and policies that are not in accord with the natural laws of lead to social disharmony. The key to social peace will always be to transform the military and political struggle for land into a market where users pay land rent rather than fight for land.

If rent is to be used for public revenue and shared equitably, how would the Federation justly deal with a planet whose resources are superior vis-a-vis planets with few natural resources? Should land rent be shared equally throughout the galaxy, or does justice only require that the natural rent be shared by the inhabitants of a planet? For example, if earth has more per-capita rent than the Vulcan world, should earthlings pay rent to Vulcan to equalize it? This challenging question has implications for sharing rent on earth, as we can ask, does it make a difference that rent today is in one planet with one humanoid species? Such economic and moral issues could be sources of juicy episodes; the economic frontier has barely been explored in Star Trek.

Public revenue need not be governmental; indeed, competitive private communities such as land trusts, civic associations, and proprietary communities, offer more choice and better service. I envision the political economy of a future earth at peace as a system where people all live in voluntary civic associations and entrepreneurial communities. The federation government is elected bottom up as community councils elect successive higher-level representatives, since it would not work well for the federation council to be directly elected by the whole mass of citizens. A free market, public revenue from rent rather than taxes, and voluntary governance with small-group voting, that is the prescription for a planet at peace.

Two basic themes of Star Trek are the value of individuality and racial harmony. Each person's heritage, values, and personality are respected. While this is relatively easy to achieve in the organizational order of a ship, to do this on a galactic scale requires universal liberty where each person, regardless of species, has an equal right to do whatever does not coercively harm others.

-- Fred Foldvary

So if you tear away the progressivist gobbledegook language; you are left with a territorially hungry, power-mad, deficit-spending, land-taxing bureaucratic state- the Federation!

Yeah. Adama and Company will fit right in. :LOL:


As always;

[Centurion Draco]

When I actually wrote;



One of these guys must be running around loose;

http://www.f.kth.se/~f00-dar/irrbloss/images/xVorlon.jpg

Here is a bit of fluff that raises some valid points.


To be continued..............

ROTFLMAO!!! :rotf: Excellent Vorlon Damo!

[ernie90125]

Death still exists, and it looks like the human lifespan has not fundamentally changed. So time is still a scarce resource, along with materials.
Not sure about this one.......look at how old McCoy was when he was seen at the beginning of ST:TNG. (A bigger ST fan than me here might know his age?)

I'm really not sure which to vote. I think perhaps Buck Rogers is the more likely to happen ? And there were similar franchises the style and they way the were presented. I have asked this question to R.H. in an interview to be answered shortly....it will be interesting to have his view.......

[cobrastrikelead]

Having the Colonials end up in the Star Trek-inspired universe would have its possibilities also. Just one thing would worry me however, let's say the Klingons and the Cylons got together and compared notes and both parties decided that Humanity was quite irritating whether of the Federation or Colonial variety, and decided to to something about it...

I can see it now, Klinglonial Fleets.

[Eric Paddon]

Not sure about this one.......look at how old McCoy was when he was seen at the beginning of ST:TNG. (A bigger ST fan than me here might know his age?)

I'm really not sure which to vote. I think perhaps Buck Rogers is the more likely to happen ? And there were similar franchises the style and they way the were presented. I have asked this question to R.H. in an interview to be answered shortly....it will be interesting to have his view.......

I'd have to disagree on Buck Rogers. True, Glen Larson developed it, and Buck recycled a large number of Galactica props and costumes (Jack Palance for instance is wearing Patrick Macnee's Iblis costume in his two part episode) but having gone through most of Season 1 the last few months on DVD, the show is of a completely different tone and quality from Galactica. In fact, it's a show like "Buck Rogers" that really lives up to the definition of that dreaded term "cheesy" that gave so many of us fits when we saw it applied to Galactica, but BR always seemed to be a show that happily embraced that notion of being "cheesy." It was fun to watch, but unlike Galactica had no pretensions to anything more serious and wasn't part of any epic storyline.

Still, there would be some potential in a good story if say, our ragtag Fleet came across the Draconians and Princess Ardala. :)

[ernie90125]

Interesting response Eric, and interestingly in turn I disagree with your reasons to disagree with a Buck Rogers crossover.....

We all recognise both shows(BR and BSG) had cheese moments, but if we strongly support one show(BSG) having a Continuation and update to remove the cheese aspects....shouldn't we be fair to the other and say it has the potential to become up to date as well ?

It is also very interesting to see that despite ST getting much of the discussion in this thread....it is actually Buck Rogers that is winning the poll at the moment.

Also, can anyone think of a storyline other than BSG finds Earth, and there is then a storyline of protecting Earth from Cylon invasion ? I can't.

[Eric Paddon]

Although I cast my vote for POTA, because of the story that I wrote, if I had a second choice vote, it would be for "V" in terms of the original miniseries only, which to me was a very good and well-written drama, but the second miniseries and the series was terrible.

Recall at the end of the first miniseries that Julie Parrish and Robert Maxwell are sending a radio signal out to the "enemy" of the Visitors in the hopes it will be received by them one day. That got me to musing one day about the what-if possibility that the "enemy" of the Visitors was none other than the Cylons, and you would have the interesting possibility of the Thirteenth Colony unwittingly appealing for help to the most sworn enemy of humanity!

[WarMachine]

Although I cast my vote for POTA, because of the story that I wrote, if I had a second choice vote, it would be for "V" in terms of the original miniseries only, which to me was a very good and well-written drama, but the second miniseries and the series was terrible.

Recall at the end of the first miniseries that Julie Parrish and Robert Maxwell are sending a radio signal out to the "enemy" of the Visitors in the hopes it will be received by them one day. That got me to musing one day about the what-if possibility that the "enemy" of the Visitors was none other than the Cylons, and you would have the interesting possibility of the Thirteenth Colony unwittingly appealing for help to the most sworn enemy of humanity!

Ooooooo......Good one, EP! As a slight twist to your thought, what if the enemy turned out to be the Colonies?

It needn't be anything huge in Colonial history: the Colonials smashed a mysterious fleet allied to the Cylons two-hundred yahren before Cimtar....The Visitors were so badly beaten, they fled as far and as fast as they could, reestablishing their state --- and finding a low-tech/hi-pop planet of Humans to vent their pent-up rage against..... :D

[Sept17th]

The poll is still open...bumpity!

[3DMaster]

Slavery and eating sapients are two reasons known.

Since the Colonials don't eat sapiens, nor have slavery, they wouldn't be denied on those grounds, and its a good thing those grounds are cause for denying people entry into the Federation.

Probably denying Cylons Colonial ^civil rights^ and practising religion would be two others.

Since the Cylons are an alien robotic species bent upon the destruction of all humans, not entirely unlike say the Borg, the Colonials won't be faulted for fighting to defend themselves, and will be allowed entry.

The Bojarans and many other Federation species practice religion, including some humans themselves I might add, and that's never been an obstruction to joining the Federation.

Besides, while the Feds could use the technology transfer, why would the Colonials after they see them, want to join THEM?

No, the colonials don't have any tech that is more advanced that what the Federation has. The colonials would consider the Federation paradise.

[Sept17th]

No, the colonials don't have any tech that is more advanced that what the Federation has. The colonials would consider the Federation paradise.

Starbuck would wonder why they pilot their smaller space craft with keyboards. :rotf: ;)

[Centurion Draco]

The 'Stargate' universe could make for some interesting comparisons.
The whole 'ancient connection'
The Gua'uld (sp?) are reptilian. There's the whole interfereance by 'god' like creatures etc.
The widespread populations of humans..
Thoughts?

[WarMachine]

The 'Stargate' universe could make for some interesting comparisons.
The whole 'ancient connection'
The Gua'uld (sp?) are reptilian. There's the whole interfereance by 'god' like creatures etc.
The widespread populations of humans..
Thoughts?

There's a story about this over at http://www.galacticafanfic.com/stories/bsgcross.html called "Crossroads"; I know SG07 has finished Part 3, but I think it's over at fanfic.net.....

Hmmmmm.....The Lords of Kobol as Go'a'uld? Tok'Ra, perhaps? Hmmmmm.....neat possiblities..... :D

[Lara]

Stargate,
For all the reasons CD listed, but also becos it allows us a scenario different from 'find earth and then defend earth from Cylons' : the gate could be used as a contact medium, contact happens on another planet. It does not require them to have travelled to Earth (so Earth is safe) but allows them to engage with the thirteenth tribe.

I can just imagine Adama being welcomed to Stargate Command thru the gateroom.
The people of the fleet being resettled to a Safe world and the Big G free to be an attack weapon again...

Cheers,
Lara

[BST]

:ahem:

The responses that originally followed the above post are now located in a separate thread entitled, The Colonies and the Federation - Differences and Similarities ( http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12770)

:ahem:


This particular thread may now return to its original intent.

BST

:)

[Tabitha]

Im thinking more like Alien/Aliens would be more the case. (Ignore anything after Aliens, it didnt exist, never happened!) Theres some similarity between Space 1999 and the Aliens universe, the lower teck ships, the basic premise that Man isnt really cut out for space travel. I liked B5, and think a dog fight between Raiders and Furies would be fun to watch, but short too, the Furies would totally cremate the Raiders. The idea of BSG meets Firefly is awesome,a nd maybe closer to the truth than my choice, but considering the post I did in another area, Im kind of sensitive about the Brown Coat issue, I hate being on the losing side, especially when its the RIGHT SIDE!

tabbi

[oldwardaggit]

SAAB for me. Two great shows cut down before their prime and done so out of stupidity.

OWD

[Raptor]

For me, It'd be between firefly and Stargate, with possible B5. Voted Firefly since only recently fount it, and still have it on the brain!

For Firefly, you've got that whole sudo-western thing going on, plus the dymanic between the Colonials and the Alliance (both support single govenments, but totally different styles...)

And for Stargate, there's the ancient Eypgt links, and the ascended beings...

Course, there's a great BSG/Farscape/Stargate fic over at Fanfiction.net! :D

[Krystal]

I vote for Space Above and Beyond, definitely have some similarities. ;)

[Jan Reinar]

Babylon 5 - I would love to see the Raiders meet the StarFuries! :rotf:

Or Baltar asking to Ivanova who she is! ;)

[Damocles]

Ivanova would give Baltar the same answer she gave the Clarkists when she took down the Shadowmegas.

I suppose the Earth Alliance needs target practice against some robot artilect targets.....

As always; :salute:

[ernie90125]

The Rag-Tag Fleet finds Earth, the Earth of which Sci-Fi franchise would you most like them to find?

This discussion comes up now and then. Further to this, a new fanfilm has been added to the VISUAL SHORTS page of my website, www.battlestarfanfilms.com

Its called UNITED.

Those who took part in this discussion and are interested in this topic, may wish to view it...... ;)

But United with who ? You'll have to watch it to find out......... :D

[Sept17th]

This discussion comes up now and then. Further to this, a new fanfilm has been added to the VISUAL SHORTS page of my website, www.battlestarfanfilms.com

Its called UNITED.

Those who took part in this discussion and are interested in this topic, may wish to view it...... ;)

But United with who ? You'll have to watch it to find out......... :D

What a great third season that could have been. Had events been different in season two I believe that could have happened.

[Damocles]

Saw the film(won't give it away) but it certainly (now that you see the merge side by side onscreen) fits very well together.

Only thing is; I wonder how the people of Earth would react to the first contact? Remember the two groups respective situations? Paranoia abounds on both sides. I would expect a Jankowski Incident before they sorted themselves out.

As always:

[Sept17th]

A PAT or two point conversion? What are you talking about?

[Damocles]

A PAT or two point conversion? What are you talking about?

What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EAS_Prometheus

A jankowski is a bungled first contact that results in a war. Call it an endzone two point safety.

Frank

[CBSG4ever]

Voted before seeing the "United" short. I didn't vote that way (although it was one I considered). Damocles, you are right. They do fit very well together.

About a Jankowski Incident, I would think that it would stem from the Earth, not the Colonials. After all, the Colonies know what they are looking for (except not knowing how they will be recieved), whereas Earth knows nothing of the Colonies and their motives. Could get a little messy before it gets ironed out. Just my 2 cubits.