Are Adar and Adama the onoly members of the Quorum to command a Star?

[Centurion Draco]

Of the Quorum only Adama wears a military uniform, but President Adar comands the Atlantia....
And Baltar mentions not being able to get back to his ship.... Did he command a Battlestar?
What about the others?
Discuss!

[Kaith Rustaz]

I vaguely recall Baltar claiming to have been caught between the Atlantia and his own Battlestar, and claiming to wear the seal of the council, which I would assume, would indicate he was also a member.

[Eric Paddon]

I never saw Adar or other Council members (save Adama) in actual "command" of a battlestar. Rather, Adar used the Atlantia as a ceremonial base of operations, but that does not mean he would be the commander of the battlestar when it engaged in military activities. Likewise, Baltar might have had a particular battlestar as a ceremonial base of operations, but that would not make him its military commander. Adama is therefore an exception to the rule of being both a military leader, and a member of the civilian governing body (Commander Cain and Commander Kronus it's fairly obvious were not Council members during their days of command).

[Senmut]

In MOTRS, Charybdid addresses Baltar as "Commander". Together with the comment by Baltar in the pilot movie, I think it plain that he did command one. Obviously he bribed somebody. ;)

[Centurion Draco]

I never saw Adar or other Council members (save Adama) in actual "command" of a battlestar. Rather, Adar used the Atlantia as a ceremonial base of operations, but that does not mean he would be the commander of the battlestar when it engaged in military activities. Likewise, Baltar might have had a particular battlestar as a ceremonial base of operations, but that would not make him its military commander. Adama is therefore an exception to the rule of being both a military leader, and a member of the civilian governing body (Commander Cain and Commander Kronus it's fairly obvious were not Council members during their days of command).

Ah, but thats just it. Atlantia is refered to as 'the presidents ship', and we don't see any evidence of a Commander of Atlantia other than Adar. He goes from the conference room to the bridge and issues military orders directly from there to the point at which Atlantia is destroyed.

[Eric Paddon]

Even referring to it as the "Presidents' ship" would not mean by extension Adar has military rank as Commander of the Battlestar. It would just mean that it is in effect, just that, his ceremonial base of operations but he doesn't have a military rank for it.

I think in this instance, the real commander of the Atlantia was being told to mind his own business while all these civilian ceremonial matters were taking place, and thus had to defer to Adar for the time being. That's why we never saw him but during the attack, he'd probably be trying to give some frantic last centon orders to save the ship while Adar just weeps in self-pity over his stupidity.

[BST]

I don't think that the Atlantia was Adar's ship in terms of military command. Just as any US military ship is the "President's ship", when he is on board, I tend to think that the Atlantia was 'his ship', for the time needed to sign the peace treaty. There was likely a true commander, who remained in operational control of the ship but Adar, as Commander-in-Chief of the Colonies, apparently had the final authority. The same is portrayed in our real-life military, the US President has final authority but, the ship has its own commander.

Additionally, as President of the Twelve Colonies, Adar would simply not have the time to act as Civilian leader AND military commander of a battlestar which could possibly take him away from the Colonies and his constituents for extended periods of time.

(Following the holocaust, Adama remained in overall command due to the declaration of martial law. If I recall correctly, the presidency of the Quorum was rotated amongst the other delegates who were in charge of 'civilian issues'.)

In the same spirit, I don't think that any of the Quorum members, except Adama, had actual military control of any of the other battlestars. They likely were ferried to the rendezvous point by a battlestar, emphasizing the signifance of the occasion. Depending on the actual ship count at Cimtar (never-ending question), it's also likely that more than 1 Quorum member was on a given battlestar, except the Galactica which only contained 1 delegate, Adama.

Baltar's ship? Likely a Cylon raider. :D


(It would actually make sense since he was the liaison between the Cylons and the Colonists.)

[Centurion Draco]

Unless the Atlantia IS essentially a mobile seat of government, and it's not unusual for the entire council to be on her.
Like the Minbari Grey-Council in Babylon 5.

Would having a mobile council HQ make it easier to administer twelve separate worlds?
Perhaps each member is elected but the presidency is governed by a rotating system to allow equal representation for each colony?

However you look at it, its difficult to figure the political/military crossover in BSG.
It makes no sense for Adama to represent Caprica in the council, and command a ship like the Galactica.
Unless there IS a connection between the two.
Baltar does appear to also be a Battlestar Commander.

Are the two closely linked?
Baltar also says 'My colony was to be spared'.
'Baltars people' did the survey on Carrillon.
He has the seal of the Lords, symbol of the quorum.

[BST]

In my opinion......


Given that the Cylons and Colonials are still in a state of war, immediately prior to the peace conference, it would be foolhardy for the highest elected leaders to be travelling, en masse, on anything but the safest ships in the fleet - the battlestars.

Other than that, the battlestars only reason for being at Cimtar was a show of force.


Regarding Adama - I think that he is the exception to all of this. He was already well-established in the military. Who knows, he may simply have been nominated for a seat on the Quorum and won the election or his family may be directly descended from the Lords of Kobol and a seat on the Quorum may be a divine right, regardless of his 'regular' occupation.


Baltar and the others - none of them 'appear' to be military commanders. In fact, based on their attire, they look quite like civilians. If they were active battlestar commanders, they would have been in uniform, as Adama was.


:)

[Senmut]

It's like when President Wilson went to the Versailles Conference. He travelled aboard the battleship Arizona. That made it "The President's Ship", though he was never in operational command. Or when FDR went to Casablanca. He travelled on the New Jersey, but the Captain remained in operational command.
It was like that with Adar.

[Centurion Draco]

I do see your point guys. But you see what I mean about not seeing the Atlantia's 'Captain' and that Adar seems to be in direct command?

You see, for me there seems to be a 'crossover' between the military and political.
It may simply be that each planet's representative on the quorum is 'head of their armed forces' in the same way that your president is. Which could account for the way that there are references to Adar and Baltar 'having' ships.
But Adama is the difficult one to account for if you go that route. Why would a serving officer hold such a high political office, and put himself in constant danger if thats not the 'norm' for members of the quorum?
And if it is the 'norm', then why shouldn't the others be commander of their ships?
Especially in the abscence of any obvious military Commander on Atlantia's bridge when she's in the fight of her life.


UNLESS!........

Has anyone actually counted the number of representatives present at the peace conference when Adar proposes the toast to the 12 at the begining of Saga?
Including Baltar and Adar, are there 12 there already?
Is it Adama thats the 'mistake'?

[Charybdis]

It's sort of like the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff. Granted, they are not out in the field, but are military leaders in high staff positions in the civilian government.

I have always viewed the BSG situation as Adama being the only actual military commander on the Quorum. I can't believe that Adar and Baltar were in the Colonial Military and are the commanders of their respective battlestars like Adama. They would have been wearing their military uniforms.

The Council is a civilian body of leaders elected by their peers or people. Adama seems to be the only one who is actually military. Not a bad idea to have one or two military guys on there if you are in a 1000 year war!

[Senmut]

Baltar is probably "retired", as it were. Since he is called "Commander" more than once, we must consider this.

[Centurion Draco]

It's sort of like the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff. Granted, they are not out in the field, but are military leaders in high staff positions in the civilian government.

I have always viewed the BSG situation as Adama being the only actual military commander on the Quorum. I can't believe that Adar and Baltar were in the Colonial Military and are the commanders of their respective battlestars like Adama. They would have been wearing their military uniforms.

The Council is a civilian body of leaders elected by their peers or people. Adama seems to be the only one who is actually military. Not a bad idea to have one or two military guys on there if you are in a 1000 year war!

Hey, Charybdis.

I just wanted to throw this one in (while we're talking quotes from the 'official' books). Again from the 1978 Futura publication by Glen A Larson and Robert Thurston: 'Battlestar Galactica'.

'It always annoyed Adama to hear his old friend Adar speak so officiously and with such an overtly political manner. They had gone to the Space Academy together, Adama and Adar, The alphabetical proximity of their names had continually thrown them together in classes, a solid example - they always claimed - of fate cementing a valuable friendship. Their comradeship had been secured later when they had both been assigned to the same Battlestar fleet as fighter pilots. After being elected president of the quorum of the twelve, Adar had continued to rely strongly on Adama's advice........'

[Eric Paddon]

One other point on the matter of potential military rank for Adar. If that had been so, he should have been wearing a blue uniform like Adama's instead of white Councilor's robes. The fact that he doesn't IMO further shows that as President he might have the authority to assume military decisions in a base of operations, but he is not the titual commander of the Atlantia any more than our President as "Commander In Chief" isn't in command of any ship or place he would operate from.

[Eric Paddon]

The novelizations for me are so far afield from what was broadcast that I think ultimately one can take a selective approach to the info based on whether what's in them or not can be reconciled to what we actually saw on-screen. Thus, I like the novelization's description of Sire Anton (Wilfrid Hyde-White) as a one-time aide to Adar, because that would explain how he came to be part of the new Council with that kind of background. But for Adar I take a more cautious approach. The novelization after all describes Adar as a man with a heavy beard.

[Centurion Draco]

lol, you're quite right Eric.
I think everything 'in print' about BSG needs to be taken with a big pinch O salt.
Although, at least with this novel, you get BIG glimpses of the original 'concept' and some elements that were cut, including some ship design and artwork.

[Senmut]

The Colonial government seems alot like that of the Classical Greek city-state, or the Roman Republic. Elected political office and active military commands often go together. An Athenian Archon, or Spartan Ephor could lead an army, just as in Rome, a Consul, Proconsul, or even a Senator could do the same. Military and political office was often one and the same.