Which Sucks The Most

[peter noble]

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

B. The Young Lords.

C. Fire In Space.

D. Greetings From Earth.

Choose one and give your reasons for your choice.

[peter noble]

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

I find the fact that recently widowed Adama would try to romance Belloby unbelievable. Brett Sommers' performance is just plain bad and the regulars' seem off the mark performance wise to me too.

At least Hector and Vector only do their dance routine once in GFE!

[martok2112]

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

B. The Young Lords.

C. Fire In Space.

D. Greetings From Earth.

Choose one and give your reasons for your choice.

WOW. This is a tough choice between C and D. A and B, despite their ending up on the "worst episodes" list are actually pretty fun romps as far as I am concerned. Adama never had me laughing harder than he did in Magnificent Warriors, especially with Siress Belloby. The Young Lords was fantastical escapism at its finest back then. (Think Red Dawn before Red Dawn was Red Dawn) :D

I guess, if I had to choose between C and D, it would have to be D. I think a lot of the acting in it was what killed it for me. The Alliance commander just seemed way over the top for me, and there were a few other acting elements. However, the comedy between Hector and Vector still makes me laugh, and takes off some of the sting.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[Eric Paddon]

Hands down from that list, Greetings From Earth for reasons I've outlined before in the New Twists section. It has terrible acting not just in the guest cast but Richard Hatch gives his worst performance of the sieres, plus the entire story just goes nowhere and if that isn't bad enough a story that goes nowhere then segues in to two more equally poor episodes that I would rate worse than the other three choices on the list.

[ernie90125]

OK, maybe I'll cause offense with the reply. Its not intended, but I feel the 'need' to ask this.

Why has this type pf thread been started ?

If I were a 'man in suit' coming to find out what the faithful TOS fans are discussing, and I saw a thread about why we think the show 'sucks' I wouldn't be impressed or think that a bad decision had been made in not supporting Tom DeSanto etc

I'd go away laughing at the thought of bringing back a show, when its own fanbase thinks much of it sucks.

I think this sort of thread damages TOS, and the chances of us getting a Continuation, or being taken seriously as a fanbase.

[BST]

OK, maybe I'll cause offense with the reply. Its not intended, but I feel the 'need' to ask this.

Why has this type pf thread been started ?

If I were a 'man in suit' coming to find out what the faithful TOS fans are discussing, and I saw a thread about why we think the show 'sucks' I wouldn't be impressed or think that a bad decision had been made in not supporting Tom DeSanto etc

I'd go away laughing at the thought of bringing back a show, when its own fanbase thinks much of it sucks.

I think this sort of thread damages TOS, and the chances of us getting a Continuation, or being taken seriously as a fanbase.


Ernie,

No offense taken. What follows, though, is my answer to your question.

To be taken seriously, one must recognize his/her shortcomings. We would be considered little more than fanboys and girls if all we did is say "Larson is a genius", "All the actors turned in fantastic performances 100% of the time.", "The FX were always 100% top-notch", etc, and never look at the other side of the coin. Yes, some of the episodes were 'dogs'; some of the same stock footage was used entirely too much; but, overall, the idea behind the show and in general, nearly 3/4 of the episodes were top-shelf. THAT is what we're still fighting for and it's that dream that we'll never lose sight of.

BST

:)

[ernie90125]

BST,

Thank you for your reply.

Your absolutely right that balanced discussion is respectworthy.

However, the thread title is not balanced. It is not about both sides of the coin. Its about 'putting down' the series in a way we are used to from GINO fans. I respect, especially for his contribution to CFF, Peter Noble, but I think this thread was misguided, and a poor choice of words.

[BST]

BST,

Thank you for your reply.

Your absolutely right that balanced discussion is respectworthy.

However, the thread title is not balanced. It is not about both sides of the coin. Its about 'putting down' the series in a way we are used to from GINO fans. I respect, especially for his contribution to CFF, Peter Noble, but I think this thread was misguided, and a poor choice of words.


Well, that's our lovable Mr. Noble -- shoots from the hip.

:LOL:

[Gemini1999]

For me,

It's a toss up between "The Magnificent Warriors" and "The Young Lords".

Both are episodes of TOS that I loathe to watch more than once a year. They were clearly the "clunkers" of what should've been a first season.

"Fire in Space" is kind of slow in pacing, but when you look at some other shows that have "major damage" episodes, it's almost a given. Space:1999 had theirs with "War Games" in Series 1 and TNG had theirs in "Disaster" (penned by Ron Moore) where the Enterprise comes upon a quantum filament and puts the ship and crew in dire straights while Picard is escorting a group of children on a tour of the ship. The worst part about "Fire" is having Muffit sniff out mushies in the ventilation system.

I like "Greetings from Earth" for the epsiode(s) it tried to be, but the characters of Hector and Vector drag it down in every scene despite the excellent casting of Bobby Van and Ray Bolger - too bad those two didn't get cast in "The Man With 9 Lives" with Fred Astaire, they would've been terrific as a trio, of what I don't know, but it just seemed like a good idea.

Those are my choices...

Bryan

[oldwardaggit]

For me it's The Young Lords hands down. Now mind you there were things I liked about that episode with the eye candy of Audrey Landers and the comedy of Lucifer but over all? Children in feathers on horse back is only one step up from actually seeing the strings attached to the space ships as they fly.

Don't laugh, I've actually seen a sci fi movie one time where you could see the fishing line attached to the ships because they had the wrong guy doing lighting and even though I'm totally into camp when it comes to sci fi ( Due to the fact that I think sci fi most of the time should be fun ) I had to turn the channel once I seen the fishing line that wasn't meant to be seen.

OWD

[martok2112]

For me it's The Young Lords hands down. Now mind you there were things I liked about that episode with the eye candy of Audrey Landers and the comedy of Lucifer but over all? Children in feathers on horse back is only one step up from actually seeing the strings attached to the space ships as they fly.

Don't laugh, I've actually seen a sci fi movie one time where you could see the fishing line attached to the ships because they had the wrong guy doing lighting and even though I'm totally into camp when it comes to sci fi ( Due to the fact that I think sci fi most of the time should be fun ) I had to turn the channel once I seen the fishing line that wasn't meant to be seen.

OWD

Don't forget the Black Hole. You could see the wires on the actors during "weightlessness" scenes...and on V.I.N.Cent. and Old B.O.B. :D

Reminiscing,
Martok2112 :salute:

[Lara]

Fire in Space is my 10 on the cringe worthy scale.. In fact it is my least watched ep and practically virgin territory on my DVDs (so forgive me if my memory is wonky..I am not going to re view for the review :D :D )

Why?

Some really lame and contrived scenes, and some bad lines that are bravely acted by actors who deserve better :
ie Adama from his life pod: Vipers will be our eyes... as the power is browning out before open heart surgery..

Starbuck and Apollo setting those charges on the hull to suck the fire into the vaccuum of space (EVERYTHING about that..including gaposis in the suits and harness cables...shudder...)

Sheba hovvering around to catch them, and being horribly gilrlie whiney in the process. (Not Anne's fault, its the way it was writ..)

Lassie saving the trapped school marm, er I mean, Muffit and Athena..

Re used fire sequences that were in the wrong ratio (from one of universals disaster movies??)

And there seems to be several cuts of this ep around, pasted into telemovies, etc etc and none of them are better than the others.

The annoying thing is there is some good acting in this, as Maren, Herb and Lorne have to make up for silly dialogue..

The script needed a damn good editing!! (either a major going over with a red pen, or ultimately, a severe Paddonning!!)

But of course, this is all IMHO.. cringeworthy scales are notoriously subjective. ;)

Cheers,
Lara

[Lara]

However, the thread title is not balanced. It is not about both sides of the coin. Its about 'putting down' the series in a way we are used to from GINO fans. I respect, especially for his contribution to CFF, Peter Noble, but I think this thread was misguided, and a poor choice of words.

maybe the title was a bit provocative in these current times of unrest, but if we only talk about the 'best' or 'fav' eps it turns into a lovefest: unrealistic.

We are asked to justify our choice and that can then be debated, using logic and reason..

Anyway, the four chosen eps are acknowledged 'problem' eps, and even if I was challenged by the most obnoxious, one eyed, slavvering GINO fan to justify the existance of these eps, I doubt I could do so seriously: they have real flaws, don't stand up to the passage of time and could at the VERY best be called a regrettable error in judgement.

Tho perhaps they are someones favourite eps...but I'd really like to hear why..

Cheers,
Lara

[Titon]

Why has this type pf thread been started ?

Because if you cannot look at material objectively you will never improve on said product. Listen even Larson and DeSanto recognize that some of the original material was less than stellar. One of the biggest reasons that it turned out that way was the studios rushing Larson into action without having a chance to keep everything on an even keel. He didn't want to do alot of the shows in perticular but needed material fast. They were writing the episodes as they were filming them to keep up with the studio's demands.

In the original setup Larson wanted to do mini-series type episodes. ABC and Universal pushed the weekly series without giving the producers a chance to hone there product.

Simply put ernie if you can't look at how the product failed in places how are you ever going to perfect it?

;)

[ernie90125]

Titon,

You're right, as BST was earlier, that we should look at both the good and bad.

However, this thread's wording seems more like a derogitory look at the show, than a balanced debate. It could be used against us in arguments, and would not impress a studio exec wishing to know how the fanbase regards the show...if they saw a thread where the own shows's most loyal, were saying how much a lot of it 'sucks'.

Wouldn't this have been less likely to cause arguments, whilst encouraging objective discussion :

"In hindsight, which episode of TOS might be regarded as the weakest ?"

[BRG]

I think I shall have to choose option D- Greetings from Earth.

Part 1 was actually not too bad, but part 2 just fell apart IMO. I really did not enjoy the second part at all. And Hector & Vector :no: Just appaling, give me Spock jamming with the space-hippies over these two singing & dancing anyday! :wtf:

I find The Young Lords watchable, although I hate Kyle with a passion! Annoying git, and with a very effeminate manner about him to boot! :mad:
Magnificent Warriors is a poor episode, but I prefer it to Greetings from Earth. At least Starbuck give you some good moments in this one.

And I genuinely like Fire in Space, and I don't care who knows it! :D It reminds me of those over the top 70's disaster movies, which I find oddly watchable on a lazy sunday afternoon. Apart from the dodgy wire work in the spacewalk scene, Fire in Space is a pretty good episode IMHO. :)
BRG

[martok2112]

The editing of Fire in Space into the Living Legend to make the HBO movie "Mission Galactica: The Cylon Attack" wasn't too bad...although it did serve to make a somewhat cringeworthy climax to a great story.

[LadyImmortal]

Oye vey I say.

Those are hard choices but I am going with 'Magificent Warriors' - that's the least watched episode on my dvd set. I'm not sure what it is about it that I dislike so much - the acting? The whole 'Starbuck is sheriff cause he won a badge in a pyramid game?' The fact that people far away from the Colonies play Pyramid?

Take your pick...

--Rhonda

[Charybdis]

I have always thought that "Magnificent Warriors" was the weakest. Just didn't get into those Borays and the fact that the town put one guy out there with one gun to defend the town was simply shameful. Where were the rest of the men? Cowering behind locked doors. And the fact that they tricked Starbuck into the sherriff's badge? Pretty bad and way too simplistic.

And if you think about it, Bogan says that the Boray come and steal their women. Where are they? They didn't seem to hurt Belloby in the time they had her. So what exactly did the boray do with these human women?? Shudder, I hesitate to think!!!

But, there is one cool thing about the episode. If you listen carefully, the background music playing at different times in that cantina is totally awesome!

[mocha2112]

A. The Magnificent Warriors.

B. The Young Lords.

C. Fire In Space.

D. Greetings From Earth.

Choose one and give your reasons for your choice.
All these eps had their problems.

TYL probably would have been at least a little better if the family had come along with the team in the shuttle. It's too creepy to think about a family 6 staying alone on that planet forever. (shutter) Also, for us Apollo fans, the quotient in this episode was very low. However, if you're a big Starbuck fan, you get shoots of him without his shirt. ;) I rarely watch this episode.

FIS ended too quickly. Too much bad happened to be wrapped up in one hour. I've never quite understood the ending - exactly what did Starbuck do to "save" Apollo? If Sheba hadn't found them, wouldn't BOTH of them been "floating in space forever" instead of just Apollo? However, I thought the use of Boomer, Athena and even Boxey and Muffit are worth watching and I thought Hatch did a good job as the worried "everybody" (worried father, worried son, worried brother, worried officer) Not a complete downer in my book.

GFE had a good start but fell flat in the end. Again, for me, another example of too much bad happening and wrapped up too quickly. Plus the inconsistences in the editing I sometimes find annoying now that I've seen the episode too many times. The use of Athena here was not good. Relegating her to a "school teacher" was a bad move. And to just leave the class unattended with Boxey to yell at Apollo? groan. However, I disagree with the assessment on Apollo/Hatch in this episode. I thought it was great character development on Apollo - I guess it helps that I agreed with the sentiment Apollo was making - and I actually watch the first half of this episode just for that. Have to be in a good mood to watch this one all the way through though.

This leaves TMW. Someone else noted how implausible a recently widowed Adama could start dating again so quickly and I concur. The settlement they found is just pathetic and even though I'd help them too even though they don't deserve it because "it's the right thing to do", the ending basically leaves them with a corrupt guy in charge of their law enforcement. What kind of message is that sending? There are only two good things in the entire episode. Apollo's reaction shot to Adama telling Belloby "...not in front of the children" and second, Apollo's ending comment to Adama "...couldn't see myself calling her 'mother'..." However, neither of these are enough to get me to watch the episode.

The Magnificent Warriors wins this contest for me.

later.... :salute:

[AJMarks]

My least favorite episode isn't on that list, its Take the Celestra.

[Tabitha]

I liked Fire in Space, only because it seems like a fire on a space ship should be a very bad thing. As far as bas shows. GFE has to be it for me just because of the robot Laurel and Hardy act. Sorry, but that was the stink on the cheese. I love TOS, and admit, there are problems, but that episode is fly over country to me.

tabbi

[LadyImmortal]

My least favorite episode is actually Murder on the Rising Star.

It's just a thing I have, though. I NEVER like the episodes where the hero is accused of a murder/crime/etc they didn't commit! It doesn't matter the tv show, either. I don't like any of them!

--Rhonda

[martok2112]

My least favorite episode is actually Murder on the Rising Star.

It's just a thing I have, though. I NEVER like the episodes where the hero is accused of a murder/crime/etc they didn't commit! It doesn't matter the tv show, either. I don't like any of them!

--Rhonda

And here I thought you'd appreciate the episode for those Triad outfits that the ladies swoon over, especially with Apollo and Starbuck in 'em. :D

Irreverently,
Martok2112

[peter noble]

I chose the list because those seem to be the ones that most fans think are really substandard.

I'm not going to apologise for the title of the thread either, it got people to notice the thread.

I'm a big fan of plain speaking and saying what you mean. Some people may find that offputting but at least you know where I'm coming from and there's no room for misinterpretation. ;)

All the members of this board in its present incarnation, love Battlestar Galactica TOS, but recognise its flaws as well as its strengths.

If you're looking for a sycophantic whitewash you won't find it here.

Peter

P.S. I love Fire In Space, it's my favourite hour-long episode after Hand of God.

[martok2112]

I chose the list because those seem to be the ones that most fans think are really substandard.

I'm not going to apologise for the title of the thread either, it got people to notice the thread.

I'm a big fan of plain speaking and saying what you mean. Some people may find that offputting but at least you know where I'm coming from and there's no room for misinterpretation. ;)

All the members of this board in its present incarnation, love Battlestar Galactica TOS, but recognise its flaws as well as its strengths.

If you're looking for a sycophantic whitewash you won't find it here.

Peter

P.S. I love Fire In Space, it's my favourite hour-long episode after Hand of God.


Well stated, sir. And it's a bloody good thread! :salute: One of many that has rekindled the discussion flames of TOS.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[Tabitha]

So should we start calling you Peter No Bull?

tabbi

[martok2112]

So should we start calling you Peter No Bull?

tabbi

Damn if that doesn't fit! :rotf:

[BST]

Thanks, Peter. Made this real easy. Hmfph....


Well, rule out FIS....that one is a personal favorite.

So, that leaves me TMW, TYL, GFE.....hoo boy.

All of them had faults but, if I had one episode that I could do without seeing, it would probably be Greetings From Earth. The story which started out good, went completely to hell once they reached Paradeen. Just a combination of misguided thoughts.

The Magnificent Warriors would have been my pick, though, if it hadn't been for the awkward position that Adama found himself in, regarding Belloby and the energizer. It was a hoot watching him squirm.

[BST]

So should we start calling you Peter No Bull?

tabbi

:eek:

EUREKA!!

[peter noble]

So should we start calling you Peter No Bull?

tabbi

You can, but smile when you say it! ;)

Best,

Peter

[LadyImmortal]

Nah, cause then you might get the idea that we're enjoying it, Peter!!!
Sorry, babe!

[BST]

Now, I have a question of the utmost importance, to me, anyway....

ahem...

Is the last name, "Bull" or is it a hyphenated contrivance, "No-Bull"? I saw that it was originally written as "No Bull". Hence, the question.


There is no question, however, on the first name - Peter. Damn good name, if I do say so myself.




Pete

:D ;)

[TwoBrainedCylon]

With some luck, some of you may view The Young Lords with a little more favor by Jan 06.

Sandy

[Tabitha]

BST, thats a question.

tabbi

[peter noble]

Even though I picked these four, I can still watch all four and enjoy them.

Another thing is that I've seen The Living Legend that many times, I have to be wide awake to watch it else it makes me nod off. Star Wars has that effect on me too.

[jewels]

And here I thought you'd appreciate the episode for those Triad outfits that the ladies swoon over, especially with Apollo and Starbuck in 'em. :D

Irreverently,
Martok2112 Triad outfits were just plain silly in '78. They would be my least favorite costuming decision. I'm highly partial to the dress uniforms though.... :)

[ernie90125]

With some luck, some of you may view The Young Lords with a little more favor by Jan 06.

Sandy

Eh ? I'm not sure what you mean ?

Is the episode to be modified in some way as part of a fan endevour ? That's all I can think of....?

[Tabitha]

Well, prehaps by bringing it up, it is cause for us to think about it and um... oh yea, its to make us think about the aspects of it and um... well, maybe he reimagined it too and now we need... oh hell, I dunno...

tabbi

[martok2112]

Triad outfits were just plain silly in '78. They would be my least favorite costuming decision. I'm highly partial to the dress uniforms though.... :)

Methinks Julix and Amberstar might have a different view. :)

:D

[larocque6689]

A. The Magnificent Warriors.
B. The Young Lords.
C. Fire In Space.

These did not suck completely. It's hard to beat Young Lords in stupidity - the inclusion of children in TOS was always a turnoff - but succeeds on a bubblegum level and Audrey Landers eye-candy. Call it "cheese" or old-school charm, but the Magnificent Warriors was kinda fun - the beats between Apollo and Adama. [ Trivia note - R*n M**re actually found a few concepts in this episode worth exploring in an old interview with Koenigrules a while back. ]

"Fire in Space" featured some of Maren Jensen's best moments in the series, and the ashen hair was a turn-on, kind of in the same way that Ali McGraw's soaken-wet hair had the same effect in the "Getaway". Still, they should have flushed Muffit and Boxey out of the airlock.

D. Greetings From Earth.

Hands down, the worst episode of the hated Terran Trilogy. The whole thing was a "con" - Terra was not Earth, they didn't even visit Terra. And it's sad when you prefer Hector and Victor over the kids. "You evil scientists destroyed our world." Puh-leeeze.

[jjrakman]

Anything with Hector and Vector sucks pretty bad.

[Lara]

See, I just knew some people out there like Fire in Space!!

Proves that cringe factor is totally subjective...and it should be!!

Tho considering who among us like it, reminds me of the following business lesson:

A sales rep and a administration clerk, and the manager are walking to
lunch when they find an antique oil lamp. They rub it and a Genie comes
out. The Genie says, "I'll give each of you just one wish."
"Me first!" says the admin. clerk. "I want to be in the Bahamas, driving
a speedboat, without a care in the world." Poof! She's gone.
"Me next!" says the sales rep. "I want to be in Hawaii, relaxing on the
beach with my personal masseuse, an endless supply of Pina Coladas and
the love of my life." Poof! He's gone.
"OK, you're up," the Genie says to the manager.
The manager says, "I want those two back in the office after
lunch."
Moral of the story: - Always let your boss have the first say.

Cheers,
Lara

[TwoBrainedCylon]

Eh ? I'm not sure what you mean ?

Is the episode to be modified in some way as part of a fan endevour ? That's all I can think of....?

I am working on a project that should be out in Dec. I intend it to be a Christmas present to the fans.


Sandy

[Centurion Draco]

I Loved Em All!

[oldwardaggit]

I like fire in Space. It's not my favorite episode but in 1993 after 15 years of not seeing any Galactica, Fire in space was the one episode I remembered the most. Why you might ask? I don't have a clue why, I just did. lol

OWD

[julix]

Methinks Julix and Amberstar might have a different view. :)

:D

Martok........................you know us too well..................indeed a wise decsion :D Richard and Dirk should have been made to wear them at all times!!!! :salute: ;)

[bsg1fan1975]

For me,

It's a toss up between "The Magnificent Warriors" and "The Young Lords".

Both are episodes of TOS that I loathe to watch more than once a year. They were clearly the "clunkers" of what should've been a first season.

"Fire in Space" is kind of slow in pacing, but when you look at some other shows that have "major damage" episodes, it's almost a given. Space:1999 had theirs with "War Games" in Series 1 and TNG had theirs in "Disaster" (penned by Ron Moore) where the Enterprise comes upon a quantum filament and puts the ship and crew in dire straights while Picard is escorting a group of children on a tour of the ship. The worst part about "Fire" is having Muffit sniff out mushies in the ventilation system.

I like "Greetings from Earth" for the epsiode(s) it tried to be, but the characters of Hector and Vector drag it down in every scene despite the excellent casting of Bobby Van and Ray Bolger - too bad those two didn't get cast in "The Man With 9 Lives" with Fred Astaire, they would've been terrific as a trio, of what I don't know, but it just seemed like a good idea.

Those are my choices...

Bryan


the worst episode in my opinion was the Young Lords. The boy in charge of the children was such a whiny brat that I alternated between wanting to smack or choke him! The only thing I found funny on this episode was the cylons!

[JLHurley]

If you divided up "Greetings from Earth" into D and E, E (the second hour) would most definitely be my pick--due entirely to Hector and Vector's...existence. As is, however, I'd have to go with "Magnificent Warriors." Let's face it: they were far from magnificent! (Although I will always love the part where Sire Bogan introduces Adama to the town's new constable!)

"Young Lords" is my guilty pleasure out of the bunch; the Lucifer/Baltar/Spectre exchanges are priceless and the music is Stu at his best. "Fire in Space" I appreciate for the character exposures we saw (Boomer, Athena and even Boxey) but other than that... :cry:

[Westy]

I choose Greetings from Earth as the worst episode.


I think this sort of thread damages TOS, and the chances of us getting a Continuation, or being taken seriously as a fanbase.

Why? The fact that we're critical of the object of our fandom, I think is a plus. It means we're honest for one, and most of us don't drink the koolade just because it's TOS BSG. Heck, we could go on and on (and we have) about the flaws of our great love, but it doesn't mean we love it any less, indeed it's part of why I love it so much. I'm pretty sure that everyone in this fandom (for the most part) agrees about what we don't and didn't want or like about TOS. For me, talking about this stuff reassures me that we're not all deluded and we're on the right track as far as why TOS was worthy of a continuation...if we just blindly put TOS's flaws in the same column as its strengths, it could be said with justification that we're out moded, old, and can't get beyond what we didn't get.

[ernie90125]

Westy - I'll refer you to my original answer if I may, as I stand by it.

However, this thread's wording seems more like a derogitory look at the show, than a balanced debate. It could be used against us in arguments, and would not impress a studio exec wishing to know how the fanbase regards the show...if they saw a thread where the own shows's most loyal, were saying how much a lot of it 'sucks'.

Wouldn't this have been less likely to cause arguments, whilst encouraging objective discussion :

"In hindsight, which episode of TOS might be regarded as the weakest ?"

My main objection is against the title, especially since it was started just after troubled times. I saw the possibity of it blowing up...but luckily the more mature writing style of replying members has kept it OK. I still thing to above re-titling suggestion would have been the best way to present it. I would have been happy to reply then...

[Sept17th]

I'm watching TOS every Sunday night in celebration since Sept. 17th. I know how much I dig GFE and finished The Long Patrol the other night it should not be on the list.