Could this be the way to get a BSG Continuation ?

[ernie90125]

Hi all,

Don't laugh....this plan isn't unrealistic when you look at what has been achieved alreadym and the goodwill and support that a Continuation of Battlestar Galactica already has....

Please let me know your thoughts.....



When Richard was filming the Second Coming, he did film full scenes (which we only see a few secs of in the trailer.) I understand the total filmed was estimated to be about 30 minutes....

I also understand that the cost was rumoured to be about $20K.

For $20K we got some great and intense footage. What most of us really want to see as a Continuation....

If Richard could make about 30 mins for $20K..........if someone gave him up to $100K would he be able to make enough of a film to hand Glen Larson a finished product on a plate in return for a profit share of the release ?

No-one doubts that $100K is a lot of money......but he is already 30 mins into it, and fans were able to raise $12K, thus could practically look to raise more again.....especially if it were for an actual production rather than just an ad in hope of....

Hmm......

For a long time I have believed that a Continuation will be BSG for the fans by the fans .....

[Titon]

At that time the second coming came out Richard had roughly 60 million waiting to be used from investors. It's a shame it never got to that point.

[ernie90125]

Titon.....I'd heard the figure 80 million, but yes I too heard there were willing investors....

But putting the 'almost' situations aside.....what is to say my suggestion couldn't happen in the forseeable future ? Ok so no Star Wars quality FX, but having seen the Second Coming that'd be enough to fulfill my dream !!!

The only thing I can think of is if Glen were to refuse to allow the film released. In which case re-edit it as a mini-series and give it to Universal....I'm sure they'd love the chance to give us what we want to get us off their back !!!

[Sept17th]

The future is fan films creating a swell of fan films that someone can point to as part of the business case for more TOS.

[ernie90125]

I thought about making a website a while ago linking to all the BSG fanfilms available, but don't have the webdesign skill to make it look as good as CF or CA or the official site ! Would love to work on the idea though as a way of publicity to show how strong support is....

But a Continuation movie would be the ultimate fan achievement....

[Titon]

Eventually if it works out CF will hopefully become a hub for this.

When i took it back over a year ago my focus was art and that hasn't changed. With the constant having to put out fires with the new series being discussed here i have been at a dead stop. Now once everything settles down i can hopefully get back to work.

Personally when you have the SAG involved you cannot release publicly any material that has been produced professionaly without compensation. That's where Richard sits with the second coming. If he released it some of those actors, by SAG rules, would have to be paid.

That's according to what i've always heard.

[Sept17th]

Oooops

[ernie90125]

Titon.....your words show there is inspiring hope for the furture of CF and a Continuation....

I'm no expert on SAG....but do you think their actors are allowed accept a profit share deal ? Or what about using non-SAG actors ?

I'm just hoping for a Continuation.....and hoping that no-one thinks I'm a dreamer for voicing the $100K idea...cos to me the maths add up as not too unrealistic....

And boy would it be a wake-up call to the studios...showing what we the fans are capable of !

[ernie90125]

Thanks for the replies....please keep 'em coming....

[Titon]

I think the studios already know what fans are capable of. But again they hold all the cards. No matter how good it is they simply can say no.

But it's always something to shoot for. Even if the actors say they donated there time they still need to be compensated by SAG rules.

Sucks.

[ernie90125]

Don.....with respect, I actually disagree with you on some of your points....

I think the studios already know what fans are capable of.
Yes and No. They know we're capable of getting people's attention. They know we can 'put our monye where out mouths are' enough to get ads in the press. They know we're capable of influence....but as you say they hold all the cards. Never before have we, the fans, been capable of
delivering what the studios do...make full scale films....

But again they hold all the cards. No matter how good it is they simply can say no.


In relation to Battlestar Galactica.....they don't hold all the cards....Glen Larson holds the main card - the threatrical rights.

He just doesn't seem to have the 'get up and go' to actually deliver productions.

We, the fans, do have the 'get up and go' to deliver a production. This will be a no risk endevour for the studios/Glen. They risk no money, and are handed a finished product of a major sci-fi franchise which they will be easily able to sell for broadcast and make free money on....

What would their motivation to say "no" be ? They would alienate they customer base by truning down a chance to make free money ? Not likely in my view.....

Even if the actors say they donated there time they still need to be compensated by SAG rules.
Are the original cast still current members of SAG ? Weren't there protests against SAG for being to restrictive ? Has the option of a profit share ever been investigated ?

Sucks.
Not sure what you mean ?

We have everything at out fingertips, if the motivation is there from the people who have the ability to make this happen. I think a fan-made cinematic film would be a milestone in the industry, if it were of the standard of other films (as the Second Coming was)

[ernie90125]

This idea isn't impossible.....I have the proof !

I heard about this project a while ago and saw a trailer, its called Star Wreck. I remember it looked to be a silly foreign spoof of ST, and some B5, but with very good special effects.

This is in fact a 1hr 45min MOVIE made by fans. Sadly the first 45 minutes are silly, but the space battle that follows is amazing, and with a great finale. Truly amazing that fans have made a movie like this.

Now imagine swapping the silly scenes, for original BSG actors with a dynamic story ? I think its very possible....

Download the whole movie, and check it out for yourself....

http://www-fi.starwreck.com/download.php

Thoughts ?

[warhammerdriver]

Personally when you have the SAG involved you cannot release publicly any material that has been produced professionaly without compensation. That's where Richard sits with the second coming. If he released it some of those actors, by SAG rules, would have to be paid.

That's according to what i've always heard.

This is true. I have friends on the inside of the ST fan film organization that used to be called 5yearmission (their new name escapes me at the moment). They actually managed to get Walter Koenig to appear in their next ep (in post production now, I understand), but they had to pay him because of the SAG rules. That really sucks. These people scrimp and save to build sets, etc., but because the ep would be available on the 'net, Checkov had to be paid.

Haven't heard if he turned around and made a "donation" and returned his SAG mandated salary. Would be nice if he did.

[Gemini1999]

This is true. I have friends on the inside of the ST fan film organization that used to be called 5yearmission (their new name escapes me at the moment). They actually managed to get Walter Koenig to appear in their next ep (in post production now, I understand), but they had to pay him because of the SAG rules. That really sucks. These people scrimp and save to build sets, etc., but because the ep would be available on the 'net, Checkov had to be paid.

Haven't heard if he turned around and made a "donation" and returned his SAG mandated salary. Would be nice if he did.

WHD -

The online production group you're referring to is now known under the "New Voyages" name....

Star Trek: New Voyages (http://www.newvoyages.com)

As to the scrimping, their average budget for each episode is 15 to 20,000 dollars per episode - that's one reason that they don't pump out episodes more than one per year. They've opted for quality instead of quality and it shows in every aspect of the production. When I last checked, Eugene Roddenberry had stepped onboard as the show runner for New Voyages and they've also had more than one ST:TOS guest stars in their episodes. I'm sure that they were also paid for their appearances as they may still be SAG members.

I haven't been on their website in a while, but thanks for reminding me that it's there. I'll have to pay them a visit soon.

Best,
Bryan

[TwoBrainedCylon]

For $15,000, and the help of the talent wallowing in the guys who regularly put up with me, I could put something together that would blow everyone's socks off. It would take a year to do it and I'm sure I'd be putting another $10,000 out of my own pocket -- which isn't any big deal since I was willing to bet that against an idiot journalist earlier in the year anyway.

Things like this are already being seriously considered.

The challenges really aren't money. You can always find money. They're location and time. We're a diverse fanbase spread out across the world and the people with talent are a very busy bunch. In fact, I should spend less time on the boards and a lot more working on projects but I tend to get sucked into some things too easily. (Bad on me). Even with total dedication, these things don't come easily and its hard to get a group willing to devote a large section of their lives for a year for one of these projects.


Sandy

[Titon]

Sandy is correct. Money is not the issue.Hell i could even fund it myself.

Real life is the factor here. It's not that i don't have some time to do work but you can very easily let other things slide that are important. When working on the 2003 mini series some of those things happened to me. I had to basically walk away from the net for 4 months to fix alot of things i let go. Business wise that is.

Daniel i understand all that you are saying but getting guys like Dirk, Herb and Richard to go along with your ideas could virtually be impossible. Dirk for one refuses to do anything fan film related. Herb as far as i know hasn't even been approached but that's one guy i believe would definately have to be compensated. Just what i got from his demeanor at Galacticon. Richard always seems to be willing to lend at least his voice to such things but you never know what will happen when push comes to shove.

One guy that i'd really be interested in talking with about something like this is Terry Carter. When i met him at Galacticon out of all the actors there he truely seemed to be interested in anything you had to say. I believe he'd be open to just about anything.

Again yes, the talent and know how on this site alone could net you a very quality film.

This is an ongoing issue with alot of us. What and how to exactly go about it. In the long run you have to do it like the pros do. Find yourself a committed FX supervisor is one of the first steps.

[Sept17th]

Cool, Sandy and Titon can fund my fan film...because unlike them I’m a poor-ass Mo-Fo. :D

[Titon]

Cool, Sandy and Titon can fund my fan film...because unlike them I’m a poor-ass Mo-Fo.

LOL! Well i might be poor and living in a hut meself if my wife found out!

:D

Hey Jon, did you see that little vid on the forums recently here that starmaster put up? It's a crossover vid with Battlestar's agains Star Destroyers.

[Sept17th]

No sir I did not see it...although I did finally see some of your earlier work. Good stuff but yes you have come along way baby.

[Titon]

Check it out here, it's in the finished artwork section here.

[warhammerdriver]

WHD -

The online production group you're referring to is now known under the "New Voyages" name....

Star Trek: New Voyages (http://www.newvoyages.com)

As to the scrimping, their average budget for each episode is 15 to 20,000 dollars per episode - that's one reason that they don't pump out episodes more than one per year. They've opted for quality instead of quality and it shows in every aspect of the production. When I last checked, Eugene Roddenberry had stepped onboard as the show runner for New Voyages and they've also had more than one ST:TOS guest stars in their episodes. I'm sure that they were also paid for their appearances as they may still be SAG members.

I haven't been on their website in a while, but thanks for reminding me that it's there. I'll have to pay them a visit soon.

Best,
Bryan

Thanks for refreshing my memory.

I mis-spoke about the scrimping--the individuals themselves do, not the production itself. Everybody pitches in cash--especially for set construction.

As far as the other guest stars--my insider and I only discussed Mr Koenig specifically. You're probably right about the others.

I gotta call my informant and pump him for more information :D

[rjandron]

This is an ongoing issue with alot of us. What and how to exactly go about it. In the long run you have to do it like the pros do.

I couldn't agree more. Having been involved some indie films, and having my own projects underway as well, I have seen all sides of the equation--from people who try what I call the "Brady Bunch" approach (Hey kids, let's put on a show!), to people who try to run their projects as if they were micromanaging a Fortune 500 company. The best approach is somewhere closer to the professional side and less the Brady Bunch side.

Find a good team. Build it up and make sure that everyone is pulling in the right direction, and then stand back and let your team do their jobs. Guys like John Fiorella and Sandy Collara can drop five figures on ten-minutes of film, but it looks like they spent over a million dollars because of their ability to find, organize, and manage a good team--in addition to having a very high standard for what they want to see on film.

As has been discussed here, SAAG will rear its head if you want to incorporate any of the original cast in a fan project, which will multiply your costs and headaches exponentially. Once SAAG is involved then NATPE or IATSE won't be far behind, and then you also have lawyers, production accountants--you name it. And since fan films are de facto produced without the involvement or explicit approval of the Studios, you place a lot of resources at risk of being wasted once you receive a cease and desist letter from the Studio's law firm.

[ernie90125]

Sandy and Don,

Thank you for your replies, I truly appreciate your honesty and experience. Interesting how the figure is different, mine was based on the cost so far of The Second Coming as we understand it....
Daniel i understand all that you are saying but getting guys like Dirk, Herb and Richard to go along with your ideas could virtually be impossible.
Again I thank you for your fair and honest point. My proposed project would be the completion of the Second Coming project. Look at who Richard included in his trailer....no Dirk no Herb....just those who would co-operate. It is those same people (as much as I would like to see Dirk and Herb) who I hope would return for a fan-funded completion of the Second Coming...

Perhaps an evolution of my question could be.....would those people (on and off screen) who participated in the making of The Second Coming return to finish the project, to make a threatrical production made/funded by fans ?

Again yes, the talent and know how on this site alone could net you a very quality film. This fan discussion forum moving to a project where we stop discussing/argueing the failing of others BSG projects, and actually make our own "very quality" dream come true, is what I'd like to think is possible and a good future direction of Fleets....

[ernie90125]

And since fan films are de facto produced without the involvement or explicit approval of the Studios, you place a lot of resources at risk of being wasted once you receive a cease and desist letter from the Studio's law firm. As far as I understand it...no-one can stop us from doing anything, even with copyright material, for personal use. Once made however, the copyright owners can indeed order us to cease and desist doing somthing with their properties.....(including making it available for download on the Internet)

However....the theatrical rights are owned by Glen Larson. We are talking about making a theatrical project. Universal are no longer involved and can't stop us.

And why would Glen ? - I'm proposing making a project to hand him, at not cost to himself, a profit. Its not in his favour to stop us making something, and as a theatrical rights owner, he is the one to issue any cease and desist orders to theatrical projects....

As far as I understand it.....

[tracyb144]

I hate to be a pessimist but there are too many "if's" here for me.

IF we could raise the money needed.
IF the time could be found to do it.
IF the OS actors would *donate* their time ( my guess is they won't ).
IF it ever does get done, will it be too late?
IF it isn't too late, will the studios even go for it?

:(

[Sept17th]

I talk a lot about a Battlestar Galactica fan film for a few reasons. One I’m out of the country for another six months so all I can do right now is talk and plan. Second, I’m just passionate about the idea. Thirdly it’s going to be a daunting task that will cost armature/fans a lot of time and money. There will be frustrating moments when I’ll have to remember all the talk and the need to back it up.

I’m using this time to make contacts and build My Team. Although I am not ready for the full press recruitment push I can say my team can be counted on one hand. A lot of people say they want a fan film but will do nothing about it. If I where still living in New York City putting a team together would be easier but we are still talking TOS Galactica not Trek whose fans one trips over in the streets.

Right now something like completing The Second Coming with TOS actors is pure fantasy. We need the smaller less ambitious projects finished first. Think of them as web based calling cards to rally the masses.

[warhammerdriver]

As far as I understand it...no-one can stop us from doing anything, even with copyright material, for personal use. Once made however, the copyright owners can indeed order us to cease and desist doing somthing with their properties.....(including making it available for download on the Internet)

However....the theatrical rights are owned by Glen Larson. We are talking about making a theatrical project. Universal are no longer involved and can't stop us.

And why would Glen ? - I'm proposing making a project to hand him, at not cost to himself, a profit. Its not in his favour to stop us making something, and as a theatrical rights owner, he is the one to issue any cease and desist orders to theatrical projects....

As far as I understand it.....

Somehow the folks at New Voyages got Paramount to review their efforts. Paramount has told them that as long as there is no profit or any profit made is donated to charity, New Voyages can do as they please with the copywrited materials.

Of course, if you have the son of the man who dreamed up all the stuff on your side, that means a great deal.

[ernie90125]

You're right...there are a lot of "if's" but only those who dare win....

I'm subscribing to Tom DeSanto's philosophy.....I'll be still trying to find a way of supporting a TOS Continuation even if I'm 75 !!!!

I think its never too late...if TNS can cast Hatch, why not TOS ?

I think the studios will go for it, and Glen, as it is a safe bet. A ready made profitable movie, why wouldn't they go for it !

I don't think this is pure fantasy.....just working towards finishing what Richard Hatch started....

[Sept17th]

Well Ernie, you have to ask your self if Glen has the rights why has he done nothing?

[ernie90125]

Sept17th........cos that guy has no get up and go !!!!!

Is my theory anyway !

[Sept17th]

Some wonder just how much of the Galactica 'verse is his free and clear. Some question he could raise the money. He would not embrace Hatch when The Second Coming had pull...its like Batman: Dead End just something cool to watch now.

[_No_Name_]

As a relative newcomer in this discussion (in the broader sense), I hope I am not rehashing old material. One of the postulates is that a TOS continuation cannot be be "the episode after of Hand of God." That leads two thrusts: Future and Past. It seems most people have the view that a continuation would be set many years after "Hand of God" and some number of the original cast could integrated.

The other thrust is to go back in time. I was always attracted by history--in fact I find the history more interesting than the quest for Earth storyline. One could do "near-history" set in the time when Adama was younger or go further back to the start of the war with the Cylons (which has the additional benefit of featuring the planets featured in "Young Lords" and "Long Patrol").

I guess the choice of direction boils down to what element the fans like: Is it the story or the TOS "universe".

A fan film would be a great success if it had fewer errors than the original!

[Westy]

If there's ever a fan grassroots TOS effort started, I'll volunteer to do modeling grunt work. I don't know why our fandom hasn't put together some kind of project to get our "official" CGI models posted somewhere to be worked on a la OpenSource. I don't mean low poly-count fun type models, I mean professional quality high poly models. Are people too protective of their work maybe? I wonder if there's somekind of protection offered in some sort of GPL or L-GPL copyrights? Copylefting models might be the way to go, there's also a license specifically for art called a Free Art License. Anyone interested in something like this?

[Titon]

Are people too protective of their work maybe

When it comes to my work, yes. The reason i haven't show much to date is just that. Galactica reference material and information is very expensive to come by. It's not so easy to obtain and once you do it's even harder to let said material to be used freely.

Take for example Sandy. He's posted artwork that has been stolen on many occassions and used against his wishes. I for one believe when you put your heart and sole into something it should come with some kind of award for your hard work. Nothing professionally based but you should be able to use the material without worry of someone else stealing your work. It happens way way to often.

Both professionally and non.

Hi res hi poly models are my cup of tee. I think in order to do anything remotely realistic you have to use hi grade material. But creating this material takes time and effort plus money.

[ernie90125]

If there's ever a fan grassroots TOS effort started, I'll volunteer to do modeling grunt work.

Westy.....thank you

We can add you to the list of "there are those who believe"


I watched the music video of John Lennon's Imagine :

"You may think I'm a dreamer....but I'm not the only one"

[ernie90125]

_No_Name_

Thanks for your post. A 'next episode after The Hand of God" could be done if it were an animation.

That's an issue that's come up before. We can't do a live action 'next episode' due to the death and aging of the cast. So the logical step is 25 years after The Hand of God.

I think what you next suggest is a prequel. The computer game of BSG has already explored this area, and at the time The New Series was being conceived it was considered.

But we have a story unfinished with BSG TOS.....a story that shouldn't be left unfinished....

[Westy]

When it comes to my work, yes. The reason i haven't show much to date is just that. Galactica reference material and information is very expensive to come by. It's not so easy to obtain and once you do it's even harder to let said material to be used freely.

Take for example Sandy. He's posted artwork that has been stolen on many occassions and used against his wishes. I for one believe when you put your heart and sole into something it should come with some kind of award for your hard work. Nothing professionally based but you should be able to use the material without worry of someone else stealing your work. It happens way way to often.

Both professionally and non.

Hi res hi poly models are my cup of tee. I think in order to do anything remotely realistic you have to use hi grade material. But creating this material takes time and effort plus money.

I understand completely. I think the same of my own work...I've gone so far as to copyright a few big software projects I was a part of with the US copyright office. It's unfortunate that people like to steal other people's stuff, I'm a victim of it myself, so I know what it's like. Still though, I'd be willing to trust particular people in our BSG fandom/community if it gets us closer to something along the lines of a fan produced body of work of high enough quality for some sort of film or demo or what have you.

I must have read at least a dozen or 2 threads over the years asking "Why don't we do something ourselves?". Well, why don't we? If a fan film or demo is too much or too overwhelming, or too costly, then why don't we start something of a smaller scale? Huge projects like that can be incementally solved little by little, bit by bit. After a few years, a lot of little pieces add up fast.

My offer stands. I can model anything. I'm no good at animating, or rigging, but grunt work modeling? That I can do. If it's a piece of machinery, or a building, or anything other than organic people or animals, I can model it accurately....maybe too accurately, but I can do it. I also offer my computer's bandwidth for any still renderings or animation renderings needed, or anything else it could be used for in a community effort. I've been involved in big internet based distributed software projects before, so I know some of the ins and outs of that kind of stuff. There's plenty of resources for collaborative projects such as this. I'm all for it! I bet on our boards there's at least 20 people who have the talent to make something happen. And there's no rush either, which is the beauty of a hobby like this.

We can sit here and let the movie studios abuse us and our fandom for another 25 years, or we could finally just do it ourselves and leave them out.

[ernie90125]

Westy !

THANK YOU !!!!! You're support is much appreciated.

We can sit here and let the movie studios abuse us and our fandom for another 25 years, or we could finally just do it ourselves and leave them out. That's the spirit ! And as the rights are owned by a private individual, studios can be completely left out in the cold. And when it is successful, which a brand like BSG is likely to be, they can see what can be done without studios, and that perhaps realise that by disrespecting fans has shown their days may be numbered !

That's exactly the type of response I was hoping for.....

Thank you.

[Sept17th]

Here is where my head and heart is: http://www.cylon.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4358

That is all I got right now.

[Titon]

Westy i agree with everything you say. There are plans for fan films in the works.

It's getting everyone on the same page.

[ernie90125]

Sept17th,

Thanks for the link, which I followed and read with interest.

That's a nice mission statement, and I wish you the best of luck with your endevour, which I will support.

These two last posts (Westy and Sept17th) are the kind of spirit I was hoping to see from the start. The spirit that "there are those who believe" we can do this.....and BSG can survive....

[ernie90125]

Titon,

You have mentioned several times, most recently in your post above that there are fanfilms in the works.

I know of Charybdis's work. But aside from that I know of no others. Please could you fill us in on the other projects being proposed ?

Its hard to get on the same page, when we don't know what pages exist !

[Charybdis]

Don, did you get my disc I sent in the mail??

[sihirvyth2]

Here is where my head and heart is: http://www.cylon.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4358

That is all I got right now.

I agree with you 100%

Personally, I would love a full scale fan series set in the same era as TOS was. I wouldn't worry about the original actors, there's so much talent in the fan base already, while it would be cool I don't think it is needed to be successful. Not sure what ideas everyone has but the beauty of having fan actors is you can just set up alternate storylines during the existing timeline and not have to jump ahead and do a 'next generation' type series.

I'm just curious what point does everyone see a fan series starting from?

[WarMachine]

I agree with you 100%

Personally, I would love a full scale fan series set in the same era as TOS was. I wouldn't worry about the original actors, there's so much talent in the fan base already, while it would be cool I don't think it is needed to be successful. Not sure what ideas everyone has but the beauty of having fan actors is you can just set up alternate storylines during the existing timeline and not have to jump ahead and do a 'next generation' type series.

I'm just curious what point does everyone see a fan series starting from?

Well, I recall someone years ago writing an analysis of the Cylon attack on the Colonies, and what was left behind by the Gal/RTFF, at Robert Hancyzk's[sp?] fanfic site(in fact, that's what prompted me to write my Colonial Fleet strength and FTL drive articles, posted elsewhere here).

Basically, any film/storyline set in TOS after the RTFF departs is going to be a copy of the Terminator/Matrix backstories: a nasty, losing battle against the Machines. The Cylons aren't out to conquer the Colonials -- they're out to kill the Humans...all of them.

Any fanfilm will have to do one or several or all of the following things:

*Be set pre-Cimtar
*Be be set with a different 'remnant':
**Another ship of the 5th Fleet
**The Peg
**Another ship[s] that survived the Great Desruction
*Be set with the RTFF, only making references to the canon cast, if at all

It will have to:

*Rationalize certain aspects of Colonial society
*Come up with a consistant explanation for Colonial technology(engines, weapons, shields, medical tech, etc)

Did I mention money?

How's that for a start? :...:

I'm willing to at least offer advice on the military side; don't know how many people would actually want to see me on film(I think I photo poorly), but I can always write technobabble :D

[ernie90125]

Sihirvyth2....The idea of a fan series set with the TOS era is being explored by Charybdis, and has been discussed for a possible animated series. It could certainly be fun....but as a fan I feel the need to find out what happened to them in the end....

Warmachine...have you seen Richard Hatch's Second Coming trailer ? That is the story of the Galactica 20odd years after the last episode of TOS. That's the storyline I would support...

You're absolutely right about the inevitable storyline of the survivors of te Colonies being like Terminator.

That's why, and having seen The Second Coming trailer and the strength of the story and presentation, I would like to support the completion of the project.

Reportadly, 30 mins of Continuation footage was filmed then at a cost of $20K when they were making The Second Coming. If that's accurate it could be within fan's grasp to raise the money needed to finish it. That's my view anyway.....

[WarMachine]

Warmachine...have you seen Richard Hatch's Second Coming trailer ? That is the story of the Galactica 20odd years after the last episode of TOS. That's the storyline I would support...

You're absolutely right about the inevitable storyline of the survivors of te Colonies being like Terminator.

That's why, and having seen The Second Coming trailer and the strength of the story and presentation, I would like to support the completion of the project.

Reportadly, 30 mins of Continuation footage was filmed then at a cost of $20K when they were making The Second Coming. If that's accurate it could be within fan's grasp to raise the money needed to finish it. That's my view anyway.....

I did see TSC at a con in Plano, TX a couple of years back, and liked it a lot; while I, too, would like to support TSC, there are a lot of other views out there, and a lot of other talent that we could explore...If we're not able to make any money at it, we may as well do stories that we like and want to see :D

[ernie90125]

WarMachine,

You're right that there's a lot of other talent and stories that we can explore. But I would like to think that is AS WELL. No need to limit ourselves !!!

But the lasting impression that The Second Coming made on me was such that I find myself seeing that as the direction I would like BSG to go. Mr. Hatch hit the nail on the head for me.

[Sept17th]

But the lasting impression that The Second Coming made on me was such that I find myself seeing that as the direction I would like BSG to go. Mr. Hatch hit the nail on the head for me.

It moved me as well and I could not see it enough in one weekend but has anyone asked Hatch about letting some on else finish it? They would be the first step and some here have that access. My guess is he will some how say no.

[Westy]

IF we could raise the money needed.

You'd be amazed at what a like minded and enthusiastic group of people can accomplish without spending a dime.

IF the time could be found to do it.

What's the rush? :) If time is a problem, I suggest taking more of a hobby approach to this. A hobby is fun, you do what you can do at leisure, and you work to your own exacting standards. Everyone is their own worst critic, so quality tends upward in project such as these.


IF the OS actors would *donate* their time ( my guess is they won't ).

We don't need them yet. We can cross that bridge when we get to it. In a huge project like this, it's better not to think of all the things that need doing and then using that as some excuse not to bother because it's too overwhelming. There's *plenty* of other things to do before we must get actors involved. The list is probably a mile long, but why worry about something so far down the road?

IF it ever does get done, will it be too late?

Too late for whom? Just who are we doing this for anyways? I thought it was for us right? If it takes 5 years or longer to get something worth showing off, who cares? By then, TNS will be dead (god willing) and that's good for us is it not? There's really no rush here, no deadlines, no schedules...except the deadlines and schedules you make for yourself.

IF it isn't too late, will the studios even go for it?
Again, who cares? When the time comes to show a studio what we've got, then we might care, but not till then. I don't even think that should be a priority or on the agenda really. This is a fan film project for fans. If a studio by some miracle decides to look at it and wants to do something with it someday, then that's GREAT! But if not, I wouldn't be upset. I'd just be glad and grateful to be working on something like this for us.

[TwoBrainedCylon]

It moved me as well and I could not see it enough in one weekend but has anyone asked Hatch about letting some on else finish it? They would be the first step and some here have that access. My guess is he will some how say no.

I talked to Richard about this a couple of times. About a year and a half ago I tried to get him to let a group of CG guys update the effects and work in the added footage.

He did say no. He's not inclined to go through the process again because its a Hell of a lot of work to make changes to something like this and he now knows that it won't sway anyone at Universal to do anything.

As I gather it, for Richard, The Second Coming is what it is and will likely remain a convention novelty until the end of time.


Sandy

[ernie90125]

Westy.....Thank you for your support. You're giving the hopeful spirited responses I had hoped for...

Sandy.....Thanks for your reply. Although I find what you've refered to odd. There is already a 'Special Edition' of the trailer. Mike McAdams has confirmed its existance, although Richard still plays the original at conventions. Perhaps he said no, as an initative to do that was already underway ?

Quite Frankly, I don't care what Universal thinks. As long as Glen Larson owns the rights, and we show support for a Continuaton.....I think we will get it sooner of later....

[Titon]

Daniel, your energy is something else.

First off as far as i know Mike McAdams had indeed updated the effects on his own. Now i can't verify that but from what i know it has been done.

But again they maybe for his own, nothing more nothing less.

To be quite honest folks in my eyes the original actors are a moot point. You need to show people that you can make it look good (updated) without the originals. There's always room for an original actors voice or appearence but why tie your hands by doing an entire script that can't get completed because *said* actor in the end say's no?

That's what scripts and storyboarding are all about. It's kind of the reason i haven't done anything myself yet.

Again i'm not a story writer. I can do FX. You can get ships and just about anything else you need but the capital ships aren't done yet. There isn't a single ship out there that's film ready. Some may believe but it would take me at least another 6-12 months to get the Galactica half ass ready to film. Not to mention the Basestar which it farther along but still needs alot of work.

[ernie90125]

Titon....thank you for the compliment. This is my way of trying to help Fleets move forward...by encouraging the membership to at least discuss a positive project. I hope I'm not annoying people, I'm just trying to explore an exciting avenue...

I'm somewhat surprised about your comments on the original cast. Wasn't one of the main aims of the CFF which we supported so strongly, a Continuation with the original cast ? I think at least some original cast throughout, are essential....

I think a good idea would be to proceed on the basis that we could hope to count on the original cast who participated The Second Coming. But as with TSC, show new characters and new actors to fill those roles.

Once again this is an example of how TSC hit the nail on the head for me. When I see that trailer, I see exactly what I want for a Continuation........

[Sept17th]

You can get ships and just about anything else you need but the capital ships aren't done yet. There isn't a single ship out there that's film ready.

What about the Foundation or game version? Either battlestar would rock a first fan film effort.

[Titon]

What about the Foundation or game version? Either battlestar would rock a first fan film effort.

Absolutely. The foundation model was not finished. You only see one side and unless Lee completed it, which i don't ever recall him saying he did i doubt it's finished.

The game model was built by koji from Eden FX. That was as close as i've seen anyone get other than the one i'm presently working on.

Problem being who's going to lend those ships out for use? As far as i can say that won't happen.

[Westy]

Just a few thoughts here:

To organize a project like this is difficult to say the least. Might some kind of committee be needed if it were to happen?

Also, any big project like this needs a concept document of some sort to keep things within well defined borders. Might not that be where we could start? The document should list the storyline, concept art, terminology, science attributes, what skill sets are needed and available, software and art resources needed and available, present goals, possible future goals, milestones, etc. I feel that without something like a concept doc any project would flounder.

[ernie90125]

Westy......I have studied project management as part of my University degree, and am currently working as project co-ordinator on various high profile projects in the progressive rock genre of music. This includes a whole box set of recordings. I have also brokered deals and investigated rights as part of this. However, all this has been music industry based, not film industry. I would volunteer all my skills and time, should they be needed, freely(of course) and feel I have a lot to contribute to this endevour....

You're right a big project like this needs a concept and boundaries....That's why I personally hope we might take The Second Coming and continue the project along the lines already established....

[Westy]

Second Coming? Hmm...might step on some toes there. If it were my call...which it isn't, I'd opt for something original from the fans. It'll avoid political problems down the road. Also, it'd be more impressive I would think if it were completely fan driven. There's plenty of talented people around these parts...I don't know if we should rely on something someone else did...flattering thought it may be (at first), but if anything ever came of something, using other's work (with permission of course...which I doubt would be forecoming from those who made 2nd Coming...) carries with it certain responsibilities legal and otherwise.

I would want to simplify things as much as possible, and involving other people's work clearly isn't the way to do that. The BSG property already has a lot of fingers sticking in it as it is now. Involve 2nd Coming and there's another one. Just my opinion!

[ernie90125]

Second Coming? Hmm...might step on some toes there. The idea is not to step on toes, but to work with them. To finish the dream that started to create, for all fans....

(with permission of course...which I doubt would be forecoming from those who made 2nd Coming...) I don't think them saying No is an impossible situation, but I would hope that it wouldn't happen. I would hope that they would be supportive....

However, one of the main problems with animation is people. David Moss, who I have chatted to and his a very supportive chap, spoke of this during a telephone conversation. He said CGI people were a lot harder because we, as people ourselves, are quick to notice things that are not quite right. Whereas, with a cartoon character or spaceship, this are not things we see commonly in real life, thus can accept easier.

There are quite a few skilled CGI artists on Fleets, but how many have done walking/talking/fighting humans in Animation successfully ?

Whereas The Second Coming had a willing cast, including original series actors. If we can re-capture that spirit of co-operation and finish the task started....we have the dream becoming a reality.....

[Titon]

There are quite a few skilled CGI artists on Fleets, but how many have done walking/talking/fighting humans in Animation successfully ?

You hit the nail on the head here. Character animation is the most difficult thing to master. I've been studying it a bit, even modeling some characters but rigging, animating and doing general cg things with a character is both time consuming and frustrating. Modeling the character is the easy part, get it to do what you want is the hard part. David Moss does this rather well.

One of the hardest things to do is coordinate. For one you almost have to have everyone working in the same program. I along with alot of other's here work in lightwave. Some work in max. Some work in solid works. Some work in maya. The portability is there but is VERY time consuming and alot of the times the porting from one to another just messes everything up.

As far as the second coming goes i'm in agreement with Westy. Do something different. The second coming was already shot down. You need different direction to go in. Trying to get those people back together and working on another section of that perticular film would be virtually impossible.

Sorry, just the truth.

:)

[ernie90125]

Titon, as always I appreciate your response and truthfullness.

As far as the second coming goes i'm in agreement with Westy. Do something different. The second coming was already shot down. Well, I wouldn't say shot down, I would say failed to proceed !!! You may have seen that I have started a poll about which continuation fans would like to see, and Hatch's is equal top.

So what direction would you suggest ? An 100% animated effort to show our abilities first ? Please elaborate what your choice would be ?

Trying to get those people back together and working on another section of that perticular film would be virtually impossible. Please may I ask, with respect, why you think this to be the case ? (Aside from John Colicos of course) Shouldn't we formulate a plan and present it, and see what people think ?

[sihirvyth2]

Please may I ask, with respect, why you think this to be the case ? (Aside from John Colicos of course) Shouldn't we formulate a plan and present it, and see what people think ?


I think it depends on what your goals are. If you want to make something commercial and slick to show the viability of TOS to corporate execs that's one thing, but like Second Coming the majority of people aren't going to see it because of SAG and other legal rules that were previously stated.

If you want to make something by the fans for the fans so everyone can enjoy it, not just a few people that go to conventions, then you want to head in a direction like the Trek fan films are doing. It's great work and it's publicly available so the entire fanbase can view it and enjoy. Just for practicality sake this seems like the better route to go. Like Titon brought up, it takes alot of work to go through, write, storyboard, and CGI a story, then have everything hanging on by the time you're ready that the original actors are going to want to do it. Plus having a publicly visible work will most likely bring in more donations and help.

[Westy]

Whereas The Second Coming had a willing cast, including original series actors. If we can re-capture that spirit of co-operation and finish the task started....we have the dream becoming a reality.....

Then you had better get Richard on board quick. ;) He's the one who performed a miracle with that in the first place, but he's with another show now, and I'll leave it that.

For various reasons I don't see this happening coming from a 2nd Coming Origin. Let me put it this way:

"Mr. President, there remain many hard feelings among our pilots....the chance of an unfortunate accident...."

I don't want to go opening any cans of worms here, but you won't get support from some if you choose 2nd Coming, or from others if you choose DeSanto's story.

This should be wholly fan originated, fan created and fan driven. Anything else and you invite dissension in fandom...and there's been too much of that the past few years. That's enough to turn anyone off.

[Westy]

If you want to make something by the fans for the fans so everyone can enjoy it, not just a few people that go to conventions, then you want to head in a direction like the Trek fan films are doing. It's great work and it's publicly available so the entire fanbase can view it and enjoy. Just for practicality sake this seems like the better route to go. Like Titon brought up, it takes alot of work to go through, write, storyboard, and CGI a story, then have everything hanging on by the time you're ready that the original actors are going to want to do it. Plus having a publicly visible work will most likely bring in more donations and help.


Exactly...this is only viable route that I can see happening.

[Westy]

There are quite a few skilled CGI artists on Fleets, but how many have done walking/talking/fighting humans in Animation successfully?


I worked with 3 character animators in my previous job. We hired one when we started the company, and 2 about a year and a half later. They cost at least $50,000 a year and it takes them forever to do anything. This was for a 3D RPG game. I won't go into details here, but character animation is the most tedious, exacting and time consuming CGI jobs there is...and that was for a game where people don't expect complete realism. It takes them weeks sometimes just to get a little piece of clothing to behave correctly when it touches or overlaps another little corner of material. I can sit here and go through issue after issue that we had to deal with but that's not needed....just say that it's no trivial thing to make a character walk and talk. Granted after you get all the "bugs" worked out, it is easier, but just getting to that point would cost more than it cost to get the 2nd Coming trailer made. There are a few software packages to make life easier, one is called Granny 3D which we looked at, another is EmotionFX which is newer and more cutting edge (it does lip synching! and we went with this). To go this route, what you'd have to in effect do is create a "game" for all intents and purposes. Sure, you could do alot of the renderings in Max, but that's pretty limited. You'd ideally want to have a virtual world where you could script actions for the character models and then capture the renderings into a movie file or some sort. There are several "engines" available to rapidly get you to this point. One would be Torque, which is pretty incredible and pretty affordable. You'll need a programmer or 3 for that though. I would look at the Torque Engine. It's by a company called Garage Games. It IS for games, but I see no reason why you couldn't use it to place animated models into a virtual world and script the actions and use that as a way to organize it all. That would seperating the data from the program which is a very efficient and re-usable way of doing things.

[ernie90125]

Westy....as usual I greaty appreciate your response, and will reply to your points.
Then you had better get Richard on board quick.Well this thread is all about formulating ideas on direction, then we can hopefully present a proposal to Richard.

but you won't get support from some if you choose 2nd Coming, or from others if you choose DeSanto's story. Well actually, having read as much as I can about the two storylines, I can't see any major reason why they can't BOTH be made ? DeSanto's story can follow Hatch's story as far as I know...

Am I to understand that people are wanting fans to also star in this film ? I don't think its ever been clearly stated by anyone that this is what they would like to see ?

I don't mean to knock what fans of various franchises do. And especially I don't want to knock Charybdis, as my praise of his first effort is genuine - but as another Fleets member commented fan acting is worth a mark of about 2 out of 10. The acting is the major let down for me when seeing the Trek stuff...the fans are exactly that....fans...not actors, and in some cases...they are terrible actors....

I think that's why the Studios have never had a problem with fanfilms...that acting is so lame it could never be mistaken for anything worthy of equal treatment alongside 'the real thing'. (Although I note the participation of Walter Koenig in one, an impressive achievement) Or, it can never be thought of by studios as a threat....

However, NEVER before has a full scale production been organised by non-studios that could stand up next to the real thing, with the real cast. The Save Enterprise people tried to fund it and failed.

We as a fanbase have a head start if we use the Second Coming avenue........we have 30min or so of filmed footage...we may have the possibility of more participation by original cast members.....we have FX people here working to a professional standard....we have a stong storyline.....and a brand that will gain attention. And we don't have to 'fear' the studios....we just have to impress rights-owning Glen Larson.

Why not strive to be the first fanbase to stand up proudly alongside the studio and achieve a professional production. What a message to send out....

[Dawg]

I understand what you're suggesting, ernie - and I like it. I think as a goal the idea of "continuing" 2nd Coming is pretty good. A real, professional BSG production; I think that aiming high is never bad.

I'm sure you can hear the 'but' coming....

Continue to plan and scheme, but set yourself intermediate goals in the meantime. The idea you have is not going to happen without some pretty serious groundwork being laid.

We (the "producers" of the material in whatever form) must first come to the attention of the "important people" - the actors, studios, Larson, etc. We do that by coming up with short, original work starring ourselves and our talents. We do what the Star Trek and Star Wars fans did - there's a thriving culture of fan films in both of those universes. We need to reach that same level. They did not start with Walter Koenig in a guest-star role, they started with fans in cheap costumes with 8mm cameras and Beta video recorders.

We have an advantage they did not, though - savvy CGI artists with powerful computers and digital recording capabilities. Our first fanfilms will be of much higher quality than their first fanfilms.

But we need to make those first fanfilms. My hat's off to Charibdys. He did one. The next one needs to be better, the one after that better still. And you won't find one person who won't want the next one to be better still - even if they did the last one themselves.

Then we can start talking about SAG rules and legal rights, which are the real impediment to continuing Richard's 2nd Coming.

I am so happy to see this discussion. I've felt for a long time that the fans need to be involved in producing new Galactica - if only to show that there is still viable interest in the franchise. Ernie, keep pushing for a real, professional production - because we'll get it.

In fact, why not talk to the guys who produce the Star Trek and Star Wars films? Let them know what we're trying to do, and see if you can pick their brains....

Keep it up, guys. Keep it up.

I am
Dawg
:warrior:

[Fragmentary]

Over the years I've run across a couple threads in differing message boards about doing a Galactica fan film. But after the initial interest is expressed, it usually fades away and nothing is ever heard about it again. Perhaps step one for really seeing something like this happen is just to get the word out to as many fans a possible. Select a location, (like here at Fleets ;) ) and make it the defacto place for this sort of discussion. Then everyone interested, go out and spread the word. Go to CGI boards and talk about it, go to Prop replica boards and costumes boards, and fan filme boards... basically everywhere that sci-fi fans gather to talk about their passions. If everyone, from all the previous attempts and new folks all know to gather in one place, maybe there could be enough synergy to keep the ball rolling.

All you need are determined people with the necessary skills, and one guy to be the producer, that is the driving coordinating force behind it. And we don't need that guy right off. That's something that can come out of the discussion. But I think the best place to start is to get everying talking about it in one place, so instead of small scattered interest, there is one major focued point of interest.

[ernie90125]

Dawg - thank you for your kind comments...I'll use some of them to reply to if I may...

We (the "producers" of the material in whatever form) must first come to the attention of the "important people" - the actors, studios, Larson, etc. We do that by coming up with short, original work starring ourselves and our talents

Well. actually we've already done this quite a bit when you add all the fanfilms up...there are quite a few ! So what I'm going to do is a 'first step' gesture from me, as well as a respresentation of the fanbase...A site listing, picturing and linking to all the BSG fanfilms.....

Webdesign is not my strong point...multimedia design is my trade but they are surprisingly different.
But I don't mind minor cost, and will also get a distinctive domain name. Maybe I'll have to ask for other's help, but I think its a worthwhile project.

But I think people will be really surprised when they see how many there already are !!!

That can be our calling card...visit the site and check out how many we've already done. Now imagine if they were all added up....if they all followed 1 storyline and moved in the same direction.

I think it will be a big help.....

[ernie90125]

All you need are determined people with the necessary skills, and one guy to be the producer, that is the driving coordinating force behind it. And we don't need that guy right off. That's something that can come out of the discussion. But I think the best place to start is to get everying talking about it in one place, so instead of small scattered interest, there is one major focued point of interest.

Well, I've said that I am prepared, and qualified and experienced, in project co-ordiantion and I'm certainly prepared to do it at this early stage. Perhaps someone else better suited will co-ordinate the CGI....

I think Fleets' new direction is a great place for all this to happen. A site devoted to Art. A site devoted to a Continuation.......becomes a site devoted to getting a Contiunation through our art...

You're sadly right that we've seen discussion like this fade before....however, I have decided to make it a life ambition to do something with Battlestar Galactica in some way. I took me several years after setting the ambition to work with members of my favourite band before I achieved it, but I did, and even this morning was having a face-toface meeting with the lead singer.

These things are possible when we keep trying.....I've decided to do so....to keep trying....and with the support of fans I think we'll achieve it....

[LadyImmortal]

Sounds cool, Ernie. I can't do graphics but I can be a cheerleader!!!!

(If there's something non-graphicy I can help with, feel free to ask!)

[WarMachine]

Well, like I said before, I'd be glad to offer technical advice; you can ask me here, or via private email, either one....

[Sept17th]

This is sounding good and I am going to give this positive talk a chance to materialize into something. :salute:

[ernie90125]

Sept17th - this is exactly what I'm asking the fans, the original cast, the FX artists, the 'men in suits' and the critics to do.......give this a chance and see if it materializes into something......

Thank you for understanding....

[Westy]

We do that by coming up with short, original work starring ourselves and our talents. We do what the Star Trek and Star Wars fans did - there's a thriving culture of fan films in both of those universes. We need to reach that same level. They did not start with Walter Koenig in a guest-star role, they started with fans in cheap costumes with 8mm cameras and Beta video recorders.

Clearly, this is the only way to go. If we can master doing something this way, then we'll baby steps all the way to the top. First we must crawl, then stand, then walk, run, etc.

[ernie90125]

This thread inspired me to make a website, as a commented I would earlier, to catalogue all of the BSG fanfilms. Fans can check it out here :

www.battlestarfanfilms.com

My current project is less ambitious than continuing The Second Coming, but still very possible and would be a great feather in our cap......expanding The Return of Starbuck.

Please check out the thread here :

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12318

[ernie90125]

I downloaded and watched this fanfilm recently.....the Special Effects are incredible, even if the acted scenes in this spoof are not my thing.

The CGI stuff looks professional.....and then I saw this SciFiWire article. It proves a fan Continuation really can happen !!!!

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?category=0&id=33350

[Sept17th]

I got an error message...you got a better link?

[ernie90125]

That's odd......I've rechecked it....

The link is working now.....

[Sept17th]

Got it now...I'll download the film later.