Where Are The Fleets?

[Dayton3]

Something has occurred to me regarding the destruction of the Colonial Fleet near Cimtar.

Cimtar was a moon apparently known to the Colonials (Zac or Apollo refer to it as the "old moon Cimtar" IIRC).

That means Cimtar was in all likelihood a moon orbiting a world once controlled by the Colonials. I assume the unnamed world was uninhabited at the time of the attack given if Humans had been living there it would've made the Cylons operational security nonexistent.

Given that the Fleet was clearly traveling in the general direction of Cimtar, I think one can assume that the world Cimtar orbited was planned as the supposed meeting site with the Cylons.

Next, Apollo and Zacs patrol finding the Cylon tanker was unexpected. Perhaps their patrol schedule was earlier than the Cylons anticipated.

The Cylon tanker they initially detected was probably supposed to slip out of site into the cloud layers and protected by Cylon jamming along with the 1000 or so Cylon fighters and the other tanker.

If the Cylon battle plan had come off as hoped for, the fleet would've had no chance whatsoever. Not even the Galactica would've survived.

The battlestars would've cruised into orbit near Cimtar with no ships ready to launch, no crews manning the lasers, the pilots celebrating in the lounges. The Cylon fighters would've swarmed out and attacked at point blank range. The massacre would've been totaled.

And it would've occurred at EXACTLY the same time as the attack on the Colonies. So no battlestars would've thought to pull out and return to the Colonies even if able.

I've always assumed that the Colonies were probably in a triple star system (one of the novelizations actually says this as well) with the stars widely spaced and several colonies circling each star.

This would've explained why when basestars are first detected they are "well within striking range of Taura, Sagitara, and Caprica".

And as someone said earlier, it explains how Galactica was able to travel to Caprica relatively unopposed and organize an evacuation while the Cylons were certainly still attacking the more remote colonies.

Originally posted by repcisg
I think the key fact illustrating the Cylons had limited ships to work with lies in the fact they had to withdraw to regroup. They did not have the ships needed to hold the Colonial worlds. After all the point of the war was the extermination of the life form known as man. Pulling back after the initial attack gave some of the survivors the opportunity to escape, and gave the Galactica time to slip in and organize a convoy of refugees. The last thing the Cylons wanted to have happen.

Most military organizations would strip other fronts for ships to ensure the success of a major operation like this. The Cylons would function no differently, in fact the cold calculus of their way of thinking would require it.

While machines would have a more efficient industrial base, there are factors that could limit their expansion. One being fuel. If the primary fuel used by them is Tylium and the Colonials controlled the major source of it. The Cylons would find themselves restricted in their growth until the Colonials were defeated. Then the Colonial fuel sources would be in their hands and rapid growth possible.

As far as Tylium is concerned, do we know that the colonials controlled the major source of it? Also, the Cylons did not withdraw from the star system completely after they launched their attacks. They were more than likely planet hopping with their forces, destroying a planet (as thoroughly as they could within the time frame they were working with) and them moving along to destroy another one. Dayton made a good point that the Galactica was able to slip into Caprica when the Cylons were occupied wiping out the rest the colonies and fighting the remaining colonial ships. That doesn't mean that they completely withdrew and regrouped for lack of resources. Do you have any more evidence to support the fact that the Cylons are strapped for resources other than their strategy for destroying the colonies? I don't think this is a resource shortage, rather it is probably a strategic mistake that the Cylons made by not thoroughly destroying every minor colonial ship that was in the system before going onto the next planet.

[Reaper]

Since this discussion had come up ove on the SyFy forums, I thought I'd repost my theories over there. I'm then going to address some of what I read here.

There is no canon evidence to suggest that there were ever only 12 Battlestars. In fact, Mr Larson has said this is a fan creation. There were only 5 Battlestars seen at any one time in the Beginning of the Show, making up the first fleet. But in dialog in both Saga of a Starworld and Gun on Ice Planey Zero, 6 Battlestar names given. 5 in Saga, and a 6th, Columbia given in GOIPZ.

Now, concider what we see. We see 5 battlestars, in a nice neat linear formation in the forward view shots. These are the shots that usually establish there were 5 battlestars there.

But when we see the interior shots of the council meeting. there is at leazst 1 Battlestar (will have to rewatch to confirm 1 or 2) visible in the window. This is a profile shot of the battlestar, meaning it's probably in formation to the side of the ship. It's possible there were more battlestars at the "peace treaty signing" but for monetary reasons, and cause it didnt' add anything to the production at the time, they only composited 5 ships at any one time.

I can look up the full list of battlestars listed at the battle of cimtar if anyone likes.


Now, about the colonies and the 12 "Pearl Harbors" that occur. Nobody has ever said whether or not there was a "home fleet" of ships based within the colonies or even if each colony had a planetray defense force. The only one ever mentioend was on Caprica. In Murder on the Rising Star, Karabdis, Baltar's main pilot and confidant, was accused of sabataging the Planetary defense networks on Caprica. This is why he went into hiding and changed his name. He was a wanted criminal. So at least on Caprica, there were ground defenses that could have helped repel the Cylon invasion. But it was turned off.

Based on the Control Baltar seemed to hold over President Adar, I wouldn't be surprised if all planetary defense forces, and any home fleets were given a Furlon (vacation time) to celebrate the coming peace. A grand, "be with your families in this historic moment" touch. Adar had no ability to see Cylon treachory. Or Baltars. He saw the Cylons looking for peace and him being the President who will give it to his people after 1000 yahrens.

My personal thoughts are that Baltar was drugging him somehow. And Baltar never left his side till the attach began to make sure that Adar never relented on the Stand down order.

Even having a patrol under fire from an unknown force, a HUGE one, since the Cylon attack force had to be on the Atlantia's scanners too, didnt' give Adar anything to reconcider. Peace was coming. And he only realized his mistake seconds before dying.

The Military had their hands tied behind their backs. Some probably most, wanted to believe the peace, and willingly went along with everything, and those, like Adama were too few to make a difference.

It's a combination of wishful thinking and sabatage that casued the destruction of the colonies.

Now, it's been pointed out that Dialog notes that only the Galactica was able to launch Vipers. And at the time of Starbuck's Landing 25 of the 67 or sop Vipers were fromt he Galactica. That leaves more then half the Vipers form somewhere else. Now, after the Initial report of no other Vipers launched, it's possible that during the attack, before hte cylons were able to disable all the battlestar's launch bays, some Warriors were able to launch themselves. But it's also possible that some of those Vipers and pilots were from the "home Fleets" I mentioned above. And from groud positions. Even During the attack on Dec 7th, Hickum Field was able to launch 2 Fighters during the attack itself.

It's improbable that the Colonial fleet only consisted of Battlestars. Patrol ships, escorts, Tankers, supply ships, cruisers, CARRIERS etc.

Anyone else looking to restart the thread?

[Jubal]

I always got the impression that there was one Battlestar to protect a colony. 12 Colonies, 12 Battlestars.

Though something I heard today while watching "Living Legend" made me wonder, the Battlestar Pegasus of the "5th Fleet". Huh?

Yeh, "Carriers" (Battlestars), Destroyers, Escorts, subtenders, refueling ships, tugs, they all would have existed.

And in short, (being one of those that love the stories of the colonials going back and kicking Cylon tail) I can agree that the possibility for other ships and other spinoffs is highly possible. When the attack happened, ships would have scattered into multiple directions. Adama leading 220 ships is amazing, and needed. But all those other military ships, like Pegasus, not bogged down by civilians would have, while under silence, worked to find ways to fight back.

----------

One thing mentioned earlier in this thread was that the cylons were a vast empire covering a lot of space. I seem to recall the way that humanity got into the war was standing up for another race against the Cylons. Whatever the case, I got the impression as the Cylon empire was being described reminded me of my biblical history.

Cylons are like the Philistines. The Colonies are like Isreal.

The Philistines in history were vast, and while their wars with Isreal are not recorded as much, conflict with Egypt is well recorded!

If I were to make a spin off, one where humanity is gearing up against the Cylon empire... a quest... not for other humans, but for other enemies of the Cylons for allies would be the quest I'd undertake!

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Jubal

I always got the impression that there was one Battlestar to protect a colony. 12 Colonies, 12 Battlestars.

Though something I heard today while watching "Living Legend" made me wonder, the Battlestar Pegasus of the "5th Fleet". Huh?

Yeh, "Carriers" (Battlestars), Destroyers, Escorts, subtenders, refueling ships, tugs, they all would have existed.

And in short, (being one of those that love the stories of the colonials going back and kicking Cylon tail) I can agree that the possibility for other ships and other spinoffs is highly possible. When the attack happened, ships would have scattered into multiple directions. Adama leading 220 ships is amazing, and needed. But all those other military ships, like Pegasus, not bogged down by civilians would have, while under silence, worked to find ways to fight back.

----------

One thing mentioned earlier in this thread was that the cylons were a vast empire covering a lot of space. I seem to recall the way that humanity got into the war was standing up for another race against the Cylons. Whatever the case, I got the impression as the Cylon empire was being described reminded me of my biblical history.

Cylons are like the Philistines. The Colonies are like Isreal.

The Philistines in history were vast, and while their wars with Isreal are not recorded as much, conflict with Egypt is well recorded!

If I were to make a spin off, one where humanity is gearing up against the Cylon empire... a quest... not for other humans, but for other enemies of the Cylons for allies would be the quest I'd undertake!

Interesting ideas there ..... I also thought it was one Battlestar per world .. supported by smaller vessels other than Vipers and shuttle craft that is ....
unfortunately many things at the time where not addressed.


shows how viewer have changed since the 1970s need or wanting a bigger picture.

[Benedict]

All I can add is that I always think of the Fifth Fleet being like what the US Navy would call a CVBG, a carrie battle group. A couple, maybe 3-4 Battlestar's with support ships. Makes sense a little that the Colonial Fleet would not have just battlestar's but other vessels.

Trouble with the whole thing being so sketchy. I've seen a couple of sites where it's contradictory about the fleet's history or types of Battlestar. Like the Pacifica being a Colombia-class but then being a seperate class of Battlestar.

Just some seemingly random cubits on my part.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Benedict

All I can add is that I always think of the Fifth Fleet being like what the US Navy would call a CVBG, a carrie battle group. A couple, maybe 3-4 Battlestar's with support ships. Makes sense a little that the Colonial Fleet would not have just battlestar's but other vessels.

Trouble with the whole thing being so sketchy. I've seen a couple of sites where it's contradictory about the fleet's history or types of Battlestar. Like the Pacifica being a Colombia-class but then being a seperate class of Battlestar.

Just some seemingly random cubits on my part.

that works for me ...... that the nature of these sites ,, 10 site 10 different ideas ..

personally I like to wonder about it, but if it was not mentioned on screen by cast or production team .. it stays in the realm of our dreams ,

having said that .. Battlestar are huge so building the could be prohibitive and perhaps the Cylon base stars are the same..

and given that the Cylon Empire is large have to stretch there forces
to contain it..... perhaps in the case of "saga" they took a chance or calculated risk.
brought in a large number of there ships and fighters from other sectors of Cylon space for the main attack.
Baltar was used to insure it "Peace"

and the Galactica and the Rag tag fleet where able to use the stretched out Cylon fleet to escape...

never thought about it like that before ..

[Jubal]

It does amaze me now that I think about it that the colonies could be evacuated DURING a major Cylon attack, but somehow they were able to get ships together, launch, and get with the fleet during all that.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Jubal

It does amaze me now that I think about it that the colonies could be evacuated DURING a major Cylon attack, but somehow they were able to get ships together, launch, and get with the fleet during all that.

Ahh well you see .. I will tell you a little secret.... "The Director was on the colonial side" But don´t tell the others ,.. they have been string themselves along for years on other ideas.

But yeah ..... I suppose the Cylons would have say knocked out the main military installations left the civilian ports more or less intact. moved on to other military stations and ship .. we assume that they where there

Perhaps you could say that some civilian ships escaped during the attack .. as they could have been making of planet trips anyway .. and blasted off before they where hit...... the Cylons seen it might have followed a directive from the leader "Destroy the Colonial Fleet" Civilian ships where no treat.

good point

[Jubal]

Originally Posted by Taranis

... the Cylons seen it might have followed a directive from the leader "Destroy the Colonial Fleet" Civilian ships where no treat.

good point

You know, we have been spoiled by commander Data's and other non-human life that become sentient and start thinking like humans.

But watching Fireball XL5 (1963)(who knows what that is?) and Robert the Robot reminded me that some mechanical life forms are only programmed to do what they are told to do.

It is possible that the Cylons were commanded, as you say, to "Destroy the Colonial Fleet". And that would have been all they would have seen. Anything else would have been invisible to them.

Soooo... knowing this, is it possible the Galactica (being part the fleet) would have realized this... stayed hidden, and had the civilian fleet come to them?

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Jubal

You know, we have been spoiled by commander Data's and other non-human life that become sentient and start thinking like humans.

But watching Fireball XL5 (1963)(who knows what that is?) and Robert the Robot reminded me that some mechanical life forms are only programmed to do what they are told to do.

It is possible that the Cylons were commanded, as you say, to "Destroy the Colonial Fleet". And that would have been all they would have seen. Anything else would have been invisible to them.

Soooo... knowing this, is it possible the Galactica (being part the fleet) would have realized this... stayed hidden, and had the civilian fleet come to them?

good point ..... Adama does say in his dialogue "and the came etc etc .." it would have been the smart or a smart move on Adamas part ..

[Benedict]

Good point if the Cylons were pre-programmed just to attack the fleet. It's one thing about Saga that I think off, when you see the ships all flying off from the destroyed Colonies and the Cylons seemingly not too fussed.

And yes I remember Fireball XL5 but not as much as I do Captain Scarlet, Thunderbirds and Stingray

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Benedict

Good point if the Cylons were pre-programmed just to attack the fleet. It's one thing about Saga that I think off, when you see the ships all flying off from the destroyed Colonies and the Cylons seemingly not too fussed.

And yes I remember Fireball XL5 but not as much as I do Captain Scarlet, Thunderbirds and Stingray

the Cylons would be very literal minded i think ..

I like your avatar Benedict .. it catches of of my fav moments with
Anne Lockhart ... Sheba .. that over the shoulder smile / flirt ..

like Starbuck met his equal

[Benedict]

Originally Posted by Taranis

the Cylons would be very literal minded i think ..

I like your avatar Benedict .. it catches of of my fav moments with
Anne Lockhart ... Sheba .. that over the shoulder smile / flirt ..

like Starbuck met his equal

thank you Taranis. One of my favourite moments also, typical Starbuck only to be more or less shot down by her. The smile is quite dazzling I think.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Benedict

thank you Taranis. The smile is quite dazzling I think.

your welcome ..

I agree about the smile ..

[WarMachine]

Well, it has been 5 years ( ), but I discussed my views on this here: http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ad.php?t=12033

And Jubal & Benedict - I didn't get to say it until now, but Welcome Aboard!

[Benedict]

thanks WarMachine, good to be aboard

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Well, it has been 5 years ( ), but I discussed my views on this here: http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ad.php?t=12033

And Jubal & Benedict - I didn't get to say it until now, but Welcome Aboard!

I remember reading your thread when you first came on WarMachine its still a sound idea .. so it works for me .. I will have to read it again after some coffee to wake me up

[HDE]

Hi all,

I often wandered, how is it possible with only five battlestars to see that patterns, when camera changes view on the fleet in the pilot. Well, it's not, unless battlestars change formation for each new shot from different position and then assume the position they had before, when the camera moves back. This would be difficult even if the ships were in full alert and doing this risky formation changes because of some battle tactics. Which certainly isn't the case. (Of course the only really sane answer is, that battlestars were placed during the filming in the position that pleased director aesthetically and that he didn't care about the real number of battlestars. But, we, the fans, need to see the opening sequence as something that really happened)

If I consider the formation as reality, minimum number of battlestars that can be present to be shown in this way is 9 with some lucky movements into the shot at the right time. To me, the most probable number is somewhere between 10 and 20, but I'd find it difficult to believe that here were more than 30.

Now, what do I believe happend during the attack. Did any of you notice, that Adama was the only one in the council of 12 dressed in colonial uniform. It is possible, that he was some sort of military representative (in addition to Caprican) to the council. If the other ships were run by civilian commanders or at least their commanders were overruled by civilians, it is quite obvious why the entire fleet reaction time to attack was so terrible. In case of around 10 battlestars present, it's quite likely, that Galactica was the only surviving ship. As someone said before, with about 5 ships, even Galactica would have problems escaping and with about 20 or more ships, the possibility of other ships escaping starts to rise considerably. But if any other battlestar escaped, I believe some of the 67 Viper pilots picked up, could have seen it.

I have a theory, why humans were so easily led to the trap, but it needs a bit changed human to Cylon power ratings.

It is not much known of the battle of Molecay, but it is speculated to be a Cylon victory. What if this speculation is wrong? Commander Cain was after all a legend even after this battle even when it was thaught he died with his battlestar and fleet. You can't just lose a fleet and achieve nothing and remain being known as the legendary and greatest leader.

Imagine that in the war opponents were close in power, but that the fifth fleet was up to a very daring operation, aiming to do a fatal blow to the Cylon empire and destroy (what colonials believe) Cylon main or even the only source of tylium capable of providing quantities neeed to wage a war. Most if not all of the Cylon force comes to protect Molecay, but Cain still manages to destroy it, even at the cost of the entire fleet. That would certainly help him being legendary.

Colonials (not knowing of Cylons geting tylium from Carillon) are lulled and sencirely believe that Cylons are no longer able to operate all of their military equipment. It is assumed, that Cylons have had enough and that they really want peace. Even Baltar sees them as an enemy weak enough, that he can deal with them later with his colony alone.

Well that seems to me as an interesting way to revive original BSG. Adventures of Pegasus, starting with the battle of Molecay. There are only two characteres form that battlestar that fans really remember well, so it would be easier to do with new crew. ... only dreaming ...

[Aerik]

I felt that the nominal strength of the fleet was six battlestars. In the novelization of SAGA, the Pacifica was mentioned as being destroyed, which left Atlantia, Galactica, Solaria, Columbia, plus a fifth battlestar (Olympica?). The only other ship type mentioned was battlecruisers. I think the term 'fleets' used in the colonial fleet parlance was analogous to what we would refer to as expeditions. The 4th fleet (Cosmora Archaepolago) with the Rycon would then be the 4th Expedition. The Fifth Fleet with the Pegasus was the fifth expedition to leave the colonies (Molecay). An expedition would be a gathering of Colonial Fleet assets (battlestars, battlecruisers, Vipers, etc.) and a fleet train of civilian shipping for an operation outside of the Cyrannus System (Galaxy).

[Senmut]

Originally Posted by AlphaAce

Indeed, the Cylons could only field a few basestars against the Colonials. I'm not so sure as to the argument that they are limited in basestars though. We are assuming that they are limited in their ability to produce basestars because of the force that wiped out the colonies; however, like I mentioned before they control a vast amount of territory and they had forces strung out across the galaxy while they were pursuing the rag tag fleet. That doesn't strike me as a force with a limited number of basestars. Granted, there isn't evidence to support my supposition that the Cylons regarded the colonials as a minor threat in comparison to other enemies; however, I don't think it is fair to assume that they can't produce a lot of basestars either.

The cylons are machines; therefore, I would argue that it is easier for them to produce fighters and basestars due to a more effective industrial base. That is an assumption on my part, but in several episodes we hear of a vast Cylon Empire.

Had the Cylons shifted sufficient BaseShips to Cimtar Sector to engage the Fleet, intel would have doubtless picked up on it. Having several of your enemy's top-of-the-line capital ships suddenly deploy to parts unknown right before a "peace conference" would get noticed, and raise immediate suspicions. But, a slow, bit by bit deployment of fighters, flying from refueling point to refueling point, and then the movement of a few tankers, over a period of sectons or sectars, might slip by unnoticed, while the BaseShips and their respective battle groups remain in "home waters". As each fighter squadron leaves, it is replaced by others. Again, slowly, bit-by-bit, so as to arouse no potential suspicions. By the time of the rendezvous, sufficient strength has been ammassed at Cimtar to, if not destroy all the Colonial ships, at least tie them down until the Colonies have been wiped out. Once the attack at Cimtar has begun, the BaseShips tasked for the attack jump into lightspeed, headed for the Colonies.
Make sense?

[Norsehound]

If I can drop some thoughts into this old discussion...

In my mind I always presumed Battlestars were huge pillars of Colonial construction designed to withstand the thousand-year war, maybe to match base ships or maybe not. Either way they came halfway in the war to turn the tide and managed to do a good job in doing so. One colony built each of them as a show of solidarity but attrition has taken its toll, and now the colonies are down to 5 (Well 7 really... including the Pegasus and the Prometheus from the hypothetical season 2).

Being that Battlestars are all-important fighting symbols naturally there's a fleet to do the grunt work and all the things that would be wasted on sending a Battlestar. Likely they were elsewhere in Saga, either on furlon or out on patrol. Given the disposition of the quorum I don't think anyone would disagree presuming the President immediately dropped to lax security since he fully believed in Baltar's deliverance of peace.

I also had the impression that the Cylon empire was very big. So big that their base ships matched the Galactic Empire's Star Destroyers in numbers. But the reason they didn't swarm humanity is that humanity was a very difficult enemy to overcome and no swarm attack would gain enough momentum to succeed (sabotaged by humans and their cleverness). They used the ruse of the peace in order to isolate the Battlestars and human leadership and crush them in a decisive blow. Baltar perhaps showed them how easily humans can be duped, so when the Cylons threw the punch they threw to get the best crunch out of it.

I believe there are military vessels in the Rag-Tag fleet, but with each one crammed with survivors their efficiency for military operations is drastically reduced. This of course after the cylons blew up every ground-based military outpost and starport with all the vessels and ships parked there.

[WarMachine]

Originally Posted by Reaper

...My personal thoughts are that Baltar was drugging him somehow. And Baltar never left his side till the attach began to make sure that Adar never relented on the Stand down order.

Even having a patrol under fire from an unknown force, a HUGE one, since the Cylon attack force had to be on the Atlantia's scanners too, didnt' give Adar anything to reconcider. Peace was coming. And he only realized his mistake seconds before dying.

The Military had their hands tied behind their backs. Some probably most, wanted to believe the peace, and willingly went along with everything, and those, like Adama were too few to make a difference.

It's a combination of wishful thinking and sabatage that casued the destruction of the colonies...

You know, I never even considered the 'deliberate doping' angle in this , but it would mesh very well with Baltar's methodology...Good catch, Reaper!

[WarMachine]

So, in rereading this thread, I find that I am actually okay with up to 12 (maybe 13) Battlestars at Cimtar, based not only on the on-screen views, but on the number of councilors present. Also, there is a symbolic element to having one Battlestar representing each Colony be present at the signing of the peace agreement that ended a long and brutal war.

That said, there is simply no way for there to have been only 5-12 Battlestars in the entire Colonial Fleet -- as Cimtar itself demonstrates, as tough as Battlestars may be, they are not bullet-/bomb-proof...and because of this, they would have taken steady losses all throughout the war.

A total "in service" fleet of 40-50 Battlestars seems far more likely to me, since ships would be constantly in port, repairing battle damage and refitting/rebuilding squadrons. With each Colony's "flagship" at Cimtar, most of the others would have been "riding at anchor", so to speak, above their "home port" worlds...ripe for destruction "at anchor", since most pilots and crews would have been on furlon.....

.....Of course, that number of other Battlestars can easily allow for other escapee's -- who just hadn't caught up to the Gal by the end of HoG.....

[Norsehound]

Meh, personally I liked the idea that Adar was that stupid, better. Given modern politics nowadays I can really believe someone would be that stupid to believe peace from an utterly ruthless, uncompromising force.

I can't see Baltar using chemicals to win his way over, especially against someone so high-profile.

[Punisher454]

My take on this is very similar to what Warmachine said above. I also tend to agree with what Norsehound said about about Adar's stupidity. We have plenty of examples of such mentality here on earth.
I've always been partial to the idea of there being 12 Battlestars present at Cimitar. Not because I think thats the whole fleet, but perhaps 12 Battlestars representing the 12 colonies at the "historic" event. Each colony would send its flagship and representative. It was symbolic, and it should be obvious that symbolism is big in BSG.

I think there would be more than 12 Battlestars in the Colonial fleet, but I'm thinking far less than 50. Although we know nothing about Colonial economics and production capabilities I think that the construction of even a single Battlestar would be a monumental task heavily taxing the resources of a planet of humans in an apparently free society. Building just one would take perhaps 5 or more Yahrens even with a huge workforce and a massive industrial engine. The tonnage of a Battlestar is almost incomprehensible. I also think that the Colonial home worlds were far less populated than we are here on earth which would tend to imply a proportionally smaller work force.

I think that at the time of the destruction the Cylon fleet probably had up to 20 or 30 BaseStars. The Final annihilation could have been done with less than 8-10 total BaseStars, the rest would have been deployed back home keeping their empire secure.
I would suspect that there were a few more Battlestars at their home ports undermanned and unprepared for the attack. Think 'Pearl Harbor' an entire fleet crippled and nearly destroyed while sitting in port un-prepared for a sneak attack. Some Battlestars would undoubtedly be under-repair at any given time.

[Senmut]

Twelve Battlestars sounds good, given the comparison with the U.S. Navy. We by law can have only 12 carriers in service at any one time. I must therfore disagree with Warmachine, since Battlestars, like our carriers, were never designed to work in isolation. Each is the centerpiece of a battlegroup, which would consist of the Colonial equivalent of cruisers, destroyers, possibly battleships, AWACS, and various other vessels, not to mention Viper patrols, all working in tandem to protect and harmonize ops with the Battlestar, and achieve the objective. When Cronus says he "commanded the Rycon and 600 fighting ships", he cannot have meant 600 large vessels, and that multiplied by 12 Colonies. The Rycon, her escort vessels, and hundreds of Vipers would make more sense. Battle fleets of such vast size, and numbers, would beggar the Colonies. The Cylons, of course, have no such problems, since I doubt they "pay" for anything.

[gmd3d]

I see the Battlestars working in a fleet or as a individual ship patrolling areas.

I also think that using the navy fleet arrangements (US or otherwise) as a guide to colonial arrangement is really hamstring the colonial fighting ability.

I think that a battlestar is not only a carrier, its (once it Viper craft have launched into battle) a Battle-cruiser.

Cain used the Pegasus as a Battle cruiser not a aircraft carrier when he went for the Cylon Baseships...

I think 40 or 50 Battlestars is a good number for the colonial forces to hold the line.

I've always been partial to the idea of there being 12 Battlestars present at Cimitar. Not because I think thats the whole fleet, but perhaps 12 Battlestars representing the 12 colonies at the "historic" event. Each colony would send its flagship and representative. It was symbolic, and it should be obvious that symbolism is big in BSG.

I agree with this and its how I always saw it.

it also depends I think on how the colonies are arranged..

Single system (one Star) - (never liked that idea, as it not feasible)
Multi system, (Few Stars) - (Better in my mind to have the colonies spreed over a few systems. than things work better for a long drawn out war that could last a 1000 years, etc..)

In my mind a single system (one star) of colonies would not last long with a Cylon fleet hammering at your door of years, like a Island in space..... it would fold sooner or later.......

multi system is a better view in my mind for a long war to be carried, there is on one place the Cylons could focus and with brute force brake down the Colonial defiance,

In each colonial system you have the enormous resources to carry a fight with the Cylons for long periods.

Once one system is attacked you can call on the support of the nearest colonies to help beat them back...

that is my view anyway....

there are so may ways to view this......

[Senmut]

Multi-system does fit with Omega's reference to "all inner planets", and then later to "all outer planets".

[Reaper]

You also have to concider that Colonial Society is not set on the 12 Colony Planets. There are references to "Satelights" This implies the colonization of more planets and moons. Each planey or satalight may not be as populated as Earth is, but in total, they have the manpower and resources to build ALOT!! concider That up till at least the 6th Milienium The Colonies had prison Astroids FAR from the home worlds.

Plus strip mining astroids and dead moons, the Colonies have the resources to Build ALOT of Battlestars and can probably even man them. Even concidering the lack of robotic construction that Earth has developed (due to their enemy being Robots) I think they can support 40 or so total battlestars. ANd smaller support ships.

And another note about Cronus and his 600 Ship 4th Fleet. YOu have to take into account that If he was including Vipers in his fleet, then the Galactica is still commanding a fleet for 151 ships, But Cronus Implied that the Galactica Stood alone in the Rag Tag Fleet. From this you cvan infer that Vipers were not counted in the Fleet strength estimate. Same way the Carrier Airwing wouldn't be included in a modern fleet number.