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Old June 5th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #1
Thunderstruck
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Default WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Lt's
D.A. Dajo aka Snowman
W.M. Sisko aka Wilo
Liz E. Borden aka Hatchet
and of course

Capt. R. Randal aka Thunderstruck





well, knew it would not last- am on a new idea for a short fan film.

Have a opening script wip and opening Shots "filmed".

Colonials on patrol encounter a Star Wars Empire squad .Will have to do voices myself,
prolly ruin it Lol.

SS's










Got a new Viper MKII Model, that I spent appx 15 hours fixing up. ( thats knowing what I was doing mostly) was a mess for textures. Re did A lot of those and had to redo the Cockpit and add some more made stuff into it just to get it to look decent.

Model - mesh is pretty good but was very ODD in applying materials ( WARPED-Divided polys). But needed a lot of help to get it to this.
Plus the Emitters for Lasers, laser lights, and exhust had to be made and added.
Also A pilot and name plates etc etc.

Already got the Tie FIghter and it is a Beauty of a model. A-1 grade. with a detailed separate cockpit - needs some more textures though.

Have got a few more resources for making fan films, so am trying them out and reading tons of pages.

THIS IS A WIP thread and wil be updated throughout the making of this Short film.

Regards,

Capt. R. Randal "Thunderstruck"
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Last edited by Thunderstruck; June 5th, 2011 at 08:13 PM..
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Old June 5th, 2011, 09:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Very pretty pictures. I'm seriously jealous of anybody who can do that.

I note you're using NATO nomenclature and paint job, and Terran-human names, but I like the helmets and flight jackets on your pilots.

I'm looking forward to seeing more as you complete them.

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Old June 6th, 2011, 12:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Nice work... Especially with the Character design.

That is another of my weak spots... Not good with making characters. But I'm working on it.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 03:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
Nice work... Especially with the Character design.

That is another of my weak spots... Not good with making characters. But I'm working on it.

ha ME either. it is a Zygote model pre make in C4d. is not rigged for animation either, but I did tweak the clothing a lil previously for other vid.

Got iClone and only touched on it shortly and magawd, another layout workflow UI to try and decipher and learn.


UPDATE


More work on the cockpit and lasers. ( no post work done-C4d)
textures in Cockpit are animated.








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Old June 7th, 2011, 01:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

UPDATE # 3-?

Okay UPDATE 2 see below for other images of interior etc.


Spent a whole day trying to get what I was after-- Exhaust streaks ( animatable) and tweaking the (muzzle) Flash
of lasers.

Helluva time trying to get it all to work together and independantly, finally realized I had to Group ( Think particles settings) all the geometry-emitters-Pass-Pstorm all of it in Expresso. ended up with 5 groupings.

Here is couple of looks on the exhausts and flash.












And this is what I started with- Orig. mesh model.







Still working on this one ship- but cant change too much - already rendered out some flick

Still debating the flash on ship or without...
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Old June 7th, 2011, 10:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

UPDATE #3


Here is a short clip - Demo increased thrust and spurt n turn.


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Old June 8th, 2011, 03:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Tie Fighter SE model by James Basset
Original- no changes- Excellent model

Got the particle syst. set up for it.

I tried several things on the Lasers from pointers on how to, but came up with my own in C4d. ( none of them looked quite right)
NOTE: is no dynamics/collision on TP system- have not enough knowledge-exp with doing collision/dynamics yet. Let alone in a particle system. fake it till you make it eh? at least when it comes time to shoot
things up.




Though this is going to take time, am already of thinking of trying to do capital ships and maybe swing in some Cylon Action too




EDIT:


Test Demo- opening scenes BSG encounters The EMPIRE

testing out color correction settings. is not a final but a sneak peak.


VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXV_h...layer_embedded
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Last edited by Thunderstruck; June 8th, 2011 at 05:20 AM..
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Old June 13th, 2011, 12:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Looking good so far.
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Old June 14th, 2011, 05:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

If I could be a bit bold and make a few suggestions.

Not sure of what program you're using but I've animated both of these models. The TIE model is truly a beauty. It benefits immensely from two alterations. (1) Open Photoshop and paint some dirt smudges into the textures. (2) embed a disc in each engine and give it 200-300% ambient with a glow. The latter really makes the engines come to life.

My other suggestion would be to completely kill any ambient light in your scene, place one hard key light above and to the backside of the models and two to four fill lights. Sometimes it helps the TIE model to have the fills with a slight peach tone. Both models will benefit from the hard lighting as the shadows really bring out the detail. You're losing an immense amount of the value of these models with your current lighting setup.

I've played around with the Mark II viper model a bit and it benefits from using radiosity, although this will blow your render times all to Hell. It also responds well with HDRI. I've never used the same setup with the TIE but I suspect the results would be pretty awesome. The Mark II also really likes having the gloss pumped up. It likes it better if you use a filter or plugin to get the "showroom floor" look on the white hull. Likewise, adding a slight metal sheen and some noise to the exposed steel really makes the model come to life.

FWIW, when animating, I've also found that the TIE works well with sweeping flight paths and having the model lean into the turns and then lean out once the turn is made. That seems to give it a stronger dancing feel and makes the action seem a bit more vibrant. The viper doesn't necessarily benefit from the same technique. Based on rendering the classic viper, I've found it likes to change its position vertically in the shot as that gives it a strong fighting look. It also likes to show the belly when it does flybys. If appropriate, have it bank the cockpit away from the camera when it races past the camera.

Hope that helps.

You should check out the following links. I think you'd find them very useful.

http://www.hyperfocaldesign.com/tuto...twave-tutorial

http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials/lighting.htm

If I can help, please let me know.

All my best,



Russell
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Old June 14th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Update- Shots Fired-Shots fired. Who drew first blood.....

Thank you Very Much Mr. 2 brained Cylon

That link to lighting may be very useful. As am not very well attuned to lighting scenes as I may think I am lol


I have had a time trying to get a good light set up on the Tie.

From trying 4 area lights with varying intensity to 1 or 2 Omni lights with inverse square but am still such a greenie to CGI-3d apps.

I appreciated your comments and am trying the best I can with what I know, always helps to get input.

I also had suggested using a single light source to add "realism" but to me it never seems to bring out the fullness of model and/or textures.


Some more SS's of WIP



This I used a stormtrooper model by Karl Stocker.



As usual had a time with it- because it was static. I rigged it to the best I can to be able to sit him down in Tie cockpit. Though it is not good enuff for animating and unable to twist bones.
It also had a mesh under meshes and so had to connect and normally completely re texture with poly selection,so I opted for mostly black- but man there were SO freeking many Poly's it would take a week to poly select the mesh. they were so small many of em any missed poly shown like a Atom bomb.

Also debated adding some animated textures for the cockpit. but did not.


A look at the opening shots ( First Blood) from the Tie Fighters.












Currently rendering first Flight animation of Battle
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Old June 14th, 2011, 02:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

No probs. Hope it helped.

These were done about eight years ago but I'm pretty sure its the same model. I'm pretty certain it uses the key light setup I described above. Its the same model you're using, except I added noise to the texture maps and tossed in a spec map. If I had it over to do again, I'd shade in the dirt and scuffs onto the textures themselves. The spec map goes a long way to selling the TIE. Also make sure you kill the reflect on the glass unless you specifically want a flare off of it as it has a habit of ruining a good shot by flaring at the camera.



This raider shot should be pretty close to the sort of thing you can get if you start using that sort of lighting setup. You have to squint (as I didn't have time to find the larger images) but it should give you an idea of the detail you should be getting in the shots.



These stills were taken from animations so they're direct reflections of the lighting.



All my best,


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Old June 15th, 2011, 08:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

QH, what app are you using for this? It looks good.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 07:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

@ Russell

I have noticed some weird quirks with lighting and direction in regard to this model. Have not tried your layout yet, but will asap.

@ Martok

I am using Cinema4d R10


Update:

Scene Clip of Viper-Tie engagement, ( not the marrying kind )





Seems my lens flare flashes are not larger enuff for animation, were good for a still but hardly noticeable,,,,

Really would like to get this done as I have gotten my Modeling Training
videos and want to start on them also. But cant rush this or speed up the effort

But, in a year am sure I can complete better shorts.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 06:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

Queen,

I don't have any experience with Cinema 4D but will try to give some insight with MAX and LW experience. If this doesn't seem helpful, feel free to ignore it. (In other words, always do what's best for you and not any critic).

MAX's engine lights were a huge pain and worked as you described. The fix was to animate the size and intensity of the engine light as the model moved towards and away from the camera. That took some trial and error but it worked out.

With Lightwave, the engines always benefited from adding a noise channel into the intensity and animating it around so it fluctuated. This did a good job of simulating an engine burning fuel.

For the general scene, I always found it better (in LW) to build scene segments around a null. I made everything a child of the null and locked the lighting rig to it. Then, I would animate the models and no matter how I moved them, the lighting would stay in place. This allowed they to always keep a good light setup and also prevented them from growing brighter and darker as they moved around.

Some suggestions for your lasers: Firstly, the TIE fighter almost always had long lasers, -- although with the special edition they shortened some of them. They also fired in burst of 3, 5, or long volleys that weren't typically uniform and regular. The original series lasers were regular volleys like those of a machinegun. As long as the trigger was pulled, it spat pulses. The GINO fighters were akin to WWII fighter planes in the beginning and F14 fighters later in the series. It depends on what look you want for this but I would definitely experiment at varying up the lasers. I don't know what 4D does for these such things but you can also usually really bring the lasers to life by adding a small glow to them. If that's possible, I'd definitely try it.

Also, when lasers come that close to something, I've found its a good idea to pass a light of the same color by the model to link the lasers to the rest of the 3D world. To make this work, you must disable the light from affecting everything but the model. This is similar to the effects they used in Star Wars. There, ILM actually painted the laser illuminations onto the film but its the same effect. (If you want to check it out, this was most prominent in Empire Strikes Back). Another trick is to have a small light embedded at the cannon of the fighter firing the laser and flash it whenever the gun fires. This takes some keying but it can really add a strong effect once you get it right.

If I could be so bold, I'd strongly suggest that you stop animating and work on the lighting rig before going further. I think you'll find that goes a long way in the way everything else looks. The best 3D advice I was given was "get the lighting right before you do anything else". I've found that to be absolutely true. A crappy model properly lit can still look good. The best model with poor lighting will always look bad, no matter what else you do with it.

All my best,


Russell
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Old June 24th, 2011, 07:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: WIP- BSG encounters The Empire w/ St0rm Pilots

@ Russel

Well that took a bit of typing


Appreciate the input.



Well, here it is.3 weeks of effort and work all balled up into a video.

Episode I


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uyHKov6DHM


VIMEO link: fo r any blocked Tubers

http://www.vimeo.com/25646970



I know there is a typo in crawl text and the animation is a bit cheesy and unfluid like, but am just getting my feet wet on it. takes some knowledge and experience to get good results and that takes time, especially with no course material on it.
IOW's no tuts-manuals


Would you like to see an next episode?



-- will add a finished post also for this--
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So much to learn , so little time, and so many ideas with so little knowledge and so much to discover with so many things to try.

Last edited by Thunderstruck; July 1st, 2011 at 05:56 PM..
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